Helicopters Australia Helitacs

[w_ocker]

Just saw in the latest Aus Aviation mag that HA now have 4 x B3s with simplex tanks for firebombing ops in WA. Looks like a great setup but guys, whats with the colour choices. It looks like the Wiggles have flown into town!

For those that havent seen them, each machine has an individual colour for the whole tail boom - green, yellow red and blue. The kids should love it.

Hope guys have a good and safe season over there. Looks like ours will be pretty sporting here in the east.

W

[wheatbix]

I don't mean to thread hijack back what are the advantages of the simplex system over a bambi bucket? Or vice versa?

[KRB]

Or what are the advantages of the Simplex tank vs the Isolair

[dragonsfly]

They colour them for the same reason that all helicopters on fire ops are numbered. It makes it very easy for those on the ground to identify the aircraft and for those in the air as well.
But I'm sure you must have worked that out already.
DF

[Ned-Air2Air]

Wheatbix - You will find that with more and more fires occuring in the urban interface area, ie: built up suburbs the liability factor of dropping a bambi bucket has become a big issue, ask RFS. I think you will find that many agencies wont allow a helo with a bucket in the urban interface area, if anyone here can elaborate on this please do so.

Ned

[wheatbix]

ah i see where your coming from Ned, I didn't think of it that way.

Thanks for the answer :)

[McGowan]

Are there enough helicopters with tanks as opposed to bambi buckets for fire people to be able to say, "No you can't go to the area where the houses are on fire or about to be burned out, you only have a bucket". I do know that if that was the case and my house burned down, guess who would be straight to the nearest lawyer.
ME.......................
You can't tell me that the risk is that big. Over the years that Pilots have been using buckets, what percentage are dropped. There is risk in everything, you can only minimise it not eliminate it. The only way to eliminate it is to stay in bed. (Then you get bed sores, so there even that's wrong:ugh: ).

[McGowan]

Ned, the above isn't aimed at you, just a knee jerk reaction from me............

[Ned-Air2Air]

Dont worry didnt take it personally. :)

I know that USFS around Los Angeles and San Diego dont let contracts for exclusive use helos that have buckets, they have to have belly tanks.

Also I think you will find that RFS also have it stipulated in the contract that their helos have to have belly tanks ie: the Wildcat 212s that were based at Bankstown as well as McDermotts 214s etc.

Ned

[NickLappos]

The issue is that a "jettisonable load" is presumed to be likely to jettison in every spot along the flight path, so Ned's point is a very sound one.
Recall the poor sod whose dropped load cut the cable-car cable a few years ago. Think of the odds of that happening....

[McGowan]

Understand that there is a risk of the bucket coming off, and a very real risk, but, it is about risk verses gain, assume the bucket will jettison and let the houses burn or take the risk that it won't? We take that risk every time we work with people on the ground.
If it does jettison, all it's going to do is fall onto a burning house........:E

[Brian Abraham]

And there was the Wessex that dropped a load of scafolding on the Bankstown highway when a transmission was made on HF. No body knew that could happen.

[McGowan]

I know these things happen, but if we are going to be this "safe", risk the bed sores and stay in bed.

[Ogsplash]

Actually, there have been quite a lot of inadvertant releases of buckets and so it is a real risk. Also, there's a bit more of a temptation to pull water from backyard pools with a bucket (I know, the tanks can also but they tend not to be as 'long'). The work that HA has done with the B3s in Perth I understand has been very successful. It works in that environment - it may not be the best in other environments....horse for courses so they say.

[dragonsfly]

The reason it works well in WA is because most of the fires are accessable by vehicle and so most if not all of the mopping up is done from the ground. In many places that I have have worked in NSW / ACT on fires, often the last aircraft to leave the fire is the one with the longest line and a bucket as a lot of the mopping up is done this way due to the country being inaccessable by vehicle. Ground crews often man handle buckets to douse fallen stags so long lines are the order of the day to prevent downwash from reigniting fires.
I think there will always be a place for both tanks and buckets in some states but the WA boys have the right gear for their neck of the woods.
DF