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Super 64
20th Oct 2006, 01:31
From The Australian – 20 Oct 06

Aerospace botched tender for choppers
Mark Dodd
20oct06

AUSTRALIAN Aerospace increased its 15-year maintenance bill for the new Tiger Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter fleet by 85 per cent shortly after winning a $1.96 billion defence contract.

Under scrutiny yesterday from federal parliament's Public Accounts and Audit Committee, the company admitted mistakes were made in the bidding process, but struggled to justify the massive increase in through-life helicopter support (TLS) contracts.
Asked by Labor senator Mark Bishop to explain the cost blow-out, chief executive Joseph Saporito said the original tender specifications had been hard to tally.
After France, Australia will be the first country to receive the Tigers, with 22 on order.
But the project has been plagued with problems, ranging from delays in the delivery of simulator training systems to engine power troubles. The Government has already received $286,000 in damages for delays, a figure that looks set to rise to $10million.
"It seems there has been at best an irregularity in the tendering process to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars that has resulted in your company getting the contract," Mr Bishop said.
"How do you respond to that? How can you be out in through-life costs somewhere between $365 million or $625million?"
After a long pause, Mr Saporito, struggled to find a satisfactory answer.
"It was difficult to know exactly what would be the cost for the TLS for our competitors. We made our best to give some estimates," he said. "Some estimates were not accurate."
Six of 22 Tigers on order - one squadron - would be "operationally" ready by next June.
"We believe we'll have aircraft No12 ready for acceptance - that is, signed off and accepted by the commonwealth - in the third quarter of 2007," said acquisitions manager Bob Wilson.
But even that estimate was contradicted by the Defence Force yesterday.
In reply to questions from The Australian, a defence spokesman said the first Tiger squadron was not expected to become fully operational until December 2008.
The choppers are not the only army equipment order running into problems.
More than a year overdue, the first of the army's upgraded armoured personnel carriers will now enter service late next year.
The $585million M113 overhaul involves comprehensive upgrades to 350 of the army's venerable Vietnam-era APCs.
Like the Tiger, changing specifications over several years had resulted in a slew of development problems.

Was the Tiger such a good idea? Or will it yet again be an ADF acquisition that didn’t quite do what was promised, even after coming in late and over budget.

Combine this with the OH 58D Warrior's proven record in Iraq and given we could have gotten far more 22 for the same price. Was Tiger the best choice? Or plan B could have been we waited a little longer for the Rh 70, with first (US) delivery scheduled for February 2008, with first combat-ready unit due in fourth quarter of 2008.

S64

Like This - Do That
20th Oct 2006, 04:32
The choppers are not the only army equipment order running into problems. More than a year overdue, the first of the army's upgraded armoured personnel carriers will now enter service late next year.

The $585million M113 overhaul involves comprehensive upgrades to 350 of the army's venerable Vietnam-era APCs. Like the Tiger, changing specifications over several years had resulted in a slew of development problems.

HARDENED and Networked Army? The 2 DIV M113s have been ditched and reserve RAAC units are now in Land Rover 110s & Perenties, trying to come up with a new role & inventing unnecessary doctrine & training. 2 DIV has therefore lost its armoured mobility assets and training options.

Meanwhile the 'venerable' M113s, upgraded, are still not IFVs, they're still just vulnerable inadequately armed APCs.
HARDENED my bottom!

Captain Sand Dune
20th Oct 2006, 05:27
The words "poetic justice" come to mind!:} Good luck, boys!!:E

Front Seater
20th Oct 2006, 15:22
So why didn't the Aussies buy AH? They appear really close to UK/US in so many other ways - why go off in this procurement direction? Especially as the French hadn't even finished their own Research and Development on the Tiger, sadly as it appears the Austalians are now finding out?

Would it not be cheaper (from a whole Through Life Cost perspective) for the Australian Govt to say enough is enough with this project and buy proven technology with significantly reduced risk off the shelf from Boeing or Westlands?

How much infrastructure is in place? I am sure that the French or Germans would buy the aircraft sitting in hangars in Australia at the moment? Seeing the close integration of the Aussie CH47 fleet into Afghan Ops I am sure that all of the AH operators (Dutch, US and UK) would all do their damndest to assist the Aussies get back into the Attack Helicopter game (anyone out here knows we certainly need/would use them!!).

I am certainly no salesman for Wastelands or Mr Boeing, but just a satisfied customer/operator of an aircraft that can 'walk the walk as well as talk the talk'.

I know that our AH had 'teething problems' but they were sorted by a combination of an airframe that had been in service for over 20 years and a concerted effort across the pond by Boeing/US DoD - not forgetting the sweat and blood by those bringing the UK AH into Service. Somehow I am not too sure if the French have that kind of willpower and drive to assist the Aussies sort out the 'little glitches'?

Is the Tiger that good, and worth the wait, is it much cheaper but offers more comparitive 'bang for buck' or aren't the Aussies interested in Attack and more in Recce?

PTT
20th Oct 2006, 15:24
HARDENED and Networked Army? The 2 DIV M113s have been ditched and reserve RAAC units are now in Land Rover 110s & Perenties, trying to come up with a new role & inventing unnecessary doctrine & training. 2 DIV has therefore lost its armoured mobility assets and training options.
Meanwhile the 'venerable' M113s, upgraded, are still not IFVs, they're still just vulnerable inadequately armed APCs.
HARDENED my bottom!
Probably means EM hardened.

antipodean alligator
20th Oct 2006, 21:03
So why didn't the Aussies buy AH? They appear really close to UK/US in so many other ways - why go off in this procurement direction? ....... Is the Tiger that good, and worth the wait, is it much cheaper but offers more comparitive 'bang for buck' or aren't the Aussies interested in Attack and more in Recce?
The reason that we ended up with Tiger is exactly that. The project was called ARH "Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter". We only had a requirement to replace our Kiowas, but clearly the lads snuck in an armed element to get something 1/2 decent.
Unfortunately even Infantry Generals can spot you pulling the wool over their eyes when you claim that Apache is a Recce platform that just happens to carry a few weapons!
I agree with some of the other banter re: INTEROPERABILITY. It does seem strange that we have aligned our Chooks, shiny new Abrahms Tanks & Blackhawks, but then choose Eurocopter Tigger and MRH 90....Perhaps the Army have a political crystal ball and see our future in defending Noumea alongside our Froggie mates?

Front Seater
21st Oct 2006, 03:21
AA,

Cheers for that - I wasn't trying to be clever with 'Pommie' one upmanship, just genuinely interested. Your guys out here are doing a superb job and in great demand as well as being bl00dy good fun to be around as well.

Whatever happens good luck - I dare say that we will soon see your Tiger out here soon looking after your own flying bananas!

:ok: