Max flying hours

[Astro_nav_666]

Question.

If you hold a South African Licence, but flying in another country on non SA Reg Aircraft, what happens to flight time limitations ie time duty, hours per year...............

Do you follow the Limitiations of the SA Cats/Cars or the Validation of the Country you are flying in????

Any info on this matter greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[Balmy]

My guess would be that if you are flying on your SA license which is validated by another country you would need to comply with both....or to say it differently you would need to comply with whichever is the most stringent in each parameter??.

[Jetstream_lover]

Hi Thanks for that.

Anyone else who can shed any light on this subject.

Cheers

[Gerund]

As always, there is no substitute for taking a look at the actual air law relating to the subject.

The South African hour limitations are contained in SA CAR 91.02.3 subsection 3. The applicability of SA CAR part 91 is contained in 91.01.1 (as one would expect) and if you take a look at 91.01.1, you will see that part 91 doesn't apply to you in your circumstances. You would not be in breach of South African airlaw if you flew 600 hours a month on your validation, but hope you are not being worked that hard :-)

You will need to take a look at the air law pertaining to BOTH your country of operation and also country of aircraft registration.

[Balmy]

Interesting.........I would have thought that seeing he would be flying on a validation of his SA licence, (no new licence is in fact issued) and the underlying licence that covers the flights is issued by the SA CAA and the SA linitations would therefore still have bearing?

[Gerund]

Mmmmm. I am not sure how else to explain:

The South African hour limitations are contained in SA CAR 91.02.3 subsection 3. The applicability of SA CAR part 91 is contained in 91.01.1 (as one would expect) and if you take a look at 91.01.1, you will see that part 91 doesn't apply

If this is not clear, perhaps you would let me know and I will give some thought as to how to explain it differently.

[south coast]

I didnt even know there were hour restrictions!

[Gerund]

south coast!

Nor did I until this question came up :-) Bit of a wake-up call eh? I guess that's what comes from just using the scanner for the licence. By the way, is your JAA licence pukka or did you follow my example? I hope not; clink is a miserable place to while away a few years.

[south coast]

Well old friend, scanners have definately moved on since we first tried to make our SA CAA licences, but I manged to get the JAR one spot on.

It actually even got me a job over here, so it must have looked pretty convincing.

I did try the old SA trick of offering a bribe, but there were not takers.

[Balmy]

Now look what you guys did!!!!!....instead of allowing me to stay with common sence you made me go and look at the regs..........

Gerund your comment.......
"As always, there is no substitute for taking a look at the actual air law relating to the subject" no substitute if you want to cause confusion that is.

So If you look at 91.01.1 as you say it appears to exclude the operation of a non South African aircraft outside the borders of SA on a validation but if you read part 61 Pilot Licencing and you go to 61.01.1 Applicability (a) reads the issueing of pliots licences and ratings to South African pilots, the priveleges and limitations of such licences and ratings, and matters related thereto. which clearly applies in this case.......so the renewals etc would be subject to SA Regs etc as would the hours in logbooks etc.

Also if you read 61.01.18 which relates to the rules governing the validation of a non SA licence subpart 3(a) and (b) say in effect that it will be subject to the both the original restriction that apply to such licence as well as subject to SA Regs.

I would suspect that the likelyhood is that the country in which his SA licence has been validated would have a similar provision which would have the effect of making the more stingent of the 2 flight and duty regulations apply.

In any event the regulation Astro Nav should be searching through are the rules of the country which has validated his SA Licence (which is something I think we have both said in previous posts).......I think it would not be prudent to assume he could fly 600 hrs if he wanted to........

[Astro_nav_666]

First of all, Balmy and Gerund thanks

And yes ive been going through the books etc, but still unclear, the country in which I have my Validation states that you can fly 1050 hrs a year, and in SA it is 1000 a year, I know I will not prob reach the 1050 a year, what happens when I go back to do my renewal and I have 1050 hrs done, what are the CAA going to think do? Apart from charge me alot of money each year???????

[Gerund]

Astro, I am at a complete loss to understand what the problem is!

I will spell it out.

You are flying on a validation, in another country, on a non SA registered aeroplane.

The SA rules relating to flying hours contained in 91.02.3 apply to :

(a)aircraft operated within the Republic;
(b)aircraft registered in the Republic and operated internationally;
(c)persons acting as flight crew members of aircraft registered in the Republic; and
(d)persons who are on board an aircraft operated under this Part
(91.01.1)

You are CLEARLY NOT subject to the flying hour restrictions under SA air law, regardless of whether you have a South African licence, a South African passport, a South African grandfather, or anything else South African for that matter. Law just has to be read and interpreted as it is written, not trying to second guess it or worse, not bothering to read it at all.

The SA CAA won't give a fig if you have 1,050 (or 5,000 for that matter) hours in your logbook for the year as long as you don't fly in the Republic, or an aircraft registered in the Republic and operated internationally, while you have breached the hour rules. (Remember that when flying a plane in the Republic, etc etc, the hour rules will apply regardless of where the hours were acquired; the legislation in 91.02.3 does not distinguish on where the hours were acquired. Before someone jumps on this, it does NOT mean that the hour requirements therefore apply to flying anywhere. I hope this doesn't require explanation too. Sometimes I feel all the Comm and ATP subjects should have to be passed at one sitting like any other half respectable qualification.)

Apologies if I sound a bit harsh but there it is.

[Astro_nav_666]

Cheers Gerund

You certainly do sound very with it. Just a Young Lowly contract pilot trying to get advice and stay in the 'good' books.

Astro

[Balmy]

In spite of what grumpy Gerund says, were I you I would stick with the 1000hrs per year not the 1050 (as the more stringent of the 2).....only 50 hrs in it anyway......I dont think it is just that simple without reading the law of the vaildating country.

Played this game before where 2 countries laws appear to contradict each other by refering to the laws of the other....you dont want to go there!!