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Jackonicko
16th Oct 2006, 21:58
Where were the military hospitals, and what state are they in now?

Ely - partly demolished, but taken over by East Cambs and Fenland PCT as Princess of Wales hospital.
Halton - still owned by the MOD? Empty (gutted?) falling into disrepair.
Haslar - still open but for disposal, with development planned for site.
Nocton Hall - closed 82, closed after USAF use 95, identified for disposal, roof collapsed after arson attack 2004.
Wroughton - closed 96, presumably demolished as site now a housing development.

So which were the others?

Headley Court? Wegberg? Cambridge (Aldershot) and Princess Louise Margaret (Aldershot - where I was born!)?

I wonder how many survive (even if closed), and remain on MoD land. And which, like Halton, could be resurrected given the money and the will?

And how about the various service nursing organisations?

Ginseng
16th Oct 2006, 22:02
Suddenly there was a deafening silence, which provides a perfect answer to your question! My, wasn't DCS 15 a great idea? (and that was a tory one, just to show I'm not biased!)

Regards

Ginseng

Stuff
16th Oct 2006, 22:10
All that's left is MDHU Peterborough, Birmingham, Portsmouth and the physios at Headley court.

There are other centres for medicine and nursing but those are where you'll get treatment as a patient.

movadinkampa747
16th Oct 2006, 22:14
Just for you here is the DMS website address........Defence Medical Services (http://www.dmsd.mod.uk/dmsd.htm)........

Jackonicko
16th Oct 2006, 22:14
And the MDHUs are military manned units embedded in civilian hospitals, yes?

The Helpful Stacker
16th Oct 2006, 22:14
Headley Court is still the centre for rehabilitation but there are quite a few RRC (Regional Rehabilitation Centres) located on large military units around the country. RAF Honnington has one I believe, as do a few other RAF units and a whole host of Army ones.

I was ousted from Headley Court the other year when most of the service posts were civilianised for cost-cutting reasons but as my one post was replaced by 2 CS ones (non-industrial and industrial) I can't see how that much money was saved, especially as they also had to bring in MPGS to take over the guarding commitment.:ugh:

And the MDHUs are military manned units embedded in civilian hospitals, yes?

Yes, that is correct.

movadinkampa747
16th Oct 2006, 22:16
I was ousted from Headley Court

You really are a REMF......................:cool:

Stuff
16th Oct 2006, 22:17
And the MDHUs are military manned units embedded in civilian hospitals, yes?

Not necessarily even a self contained military unit. There may be military and civillian staff working together treating the same set of patients. The patients they treat could also be a mix of military and civvy.

The Helpful Stacker
16th Oct 2006, 22:24
You really are a REMF......................:cool:

Well done. The 'stacker' part of my name has obviously alluded you thus far.:ugh: Although with previous infantry service and a few hairy dets (not the "oh my hotel room doesn't have a mini-bar" type) since being a 'REMF' I like to think of myself as a previously teethy REMF.

You're not in Int by any chance are you or perhaps being so scorning of REMF's you are actually an underwater knife fighting specialist with Walt clearance?

movadinkampa747
16th Oct 2006, 22:31
The Defence Medical Services Department is an important part of the Ministry of Defence responsible for the clinical welfare of all UK forces.:O Following an initiative to implement a structured healthcare and rehabilitation strategy based around a single tiered health record, there was a need to reassess the increase in capability of healthcare that could be gained and the necessary pneumthorax process change associated with further investment in medical Healthcare.:ok:
It is important to understand the tamponade processes change, that was necessary to elicit and structure the existing pachydactyly in the areas of preventative and curative medicine and then assess the suitability of the potential options to support the Armed Forces. The MOD's solution undertook a stakeholder analysis followed by series of structured interviews employing a hauerite process modelling methodology:{ . The interviews were followed up with a series of workshops to assess and agree the benefits that would be gained from health changes supported by civillian Health authorities. Following this the areas for necessary healthcare changes were highlighted and prioritised.
The obvious benefits of this system included;
1. Clearly defined roles in the healthcare programme of the Forces were agreed.
2. Doctors and Nurses were enabled to ectocrine the opportunities and expected benefits for a number of healthcare strategies.
3. Organisational ichthyosis, healthcare needs and current capability levels in the departments and hospitals under the Defence Medical Services Department were revealed.
So you see that is why all the Military hospitals closed.;)

BEagle
16th Oct 2006, 22:44
Tampons and elephants?

I think you can probably still get an aspirin or two at Brize - if you make an appointment far enough ahead......

And you left Nocton Hall off the list, Jacko!

Jackonicko
16th Oct 2006, 23:11
Thanks, BEags!

It was all to safeguard investment in the frontline, of course.....

and it took into account the number of personnel deployed.....

"Defence Medical Services

1. The Defence Costs Study generated considerable change to the size and shape of the Defence Medical Services. Two fundamental criteria are being used to guide their re-organisation which, when complete, will save over £500 million over the next ten years:


The standard of medical care provided to the armed forces should be equal to the best provided under the National Health Service.

The size of the uniformed medical service should be based on assessments of the number of personnel required to deploy with our front-line forces.

2. Primary care in the armed forces remains the responsibility of the single Services. It will be provided by the most cost-effective combination of the Department's military and civilian resources, the National Health Service and the private health care sector.

3. One recommendation of the Defence Costs Study was the formation of new defence medical Agencies. From May, secondary care will be managed as a tri-Service Defence Agency, headed by a Chief Executive who reports to the Surgeon General. Secondary care for the armed forces in the United Kingdom is centred on a single tri-Service hospital at Haslar in Gosport. This is complemented by a continuing presence at the Duchess of Kent Hospital at Catterick and by Service medical staff working in three new Ministry of Defence Hospital Units at National Health Service district general hospitals at Derriford in Plymouth, Frimley Park in Surrey and Peterborough in Cambridgeshire.

4. The Princess Mary's Hospital in Cyprus and the Defence Services Medical Rehabilitation Centre at RAF Headley Court have also been incorporated into the secondary care agency. The closure of the Queen Elizabeth Military Hospital at Woolwich was brought forward to September, when the hospital was transferred to the National Health Service. The Princess Mary RAF Hospital at Halton, the Cambridge Military Hospital at Aldershot and the Princess Alexandra RAF Hospital at Wroughton all closed earlier this year.

5. In Germany, as a result of market testing, secondary health care arrangements for our forces and primary care for the Army are being implemented by The Health Alliance, formed from staff of the Defence Medical Services, the Soldiers' Sailors' and Airmen's Families Association health services and the Guy's and St Thomas's Hospital National Health Service Trust. In future, secondary health care will be provided in areas designated for Service personnel and their dependants in German civilian hospitals located close to Army camps and RAF stations. As a result of these changes, the two Service hospitals at Wegberg and Rinteln will close.

6. Significant savings have been achieved through the rationalisation of medical training under a Director General Medical Training. The resultant Defence Medical Training Organisation is being reviewed for agency status. A medical supplies Agency responsible for the provision of medical equipment and drugs and arrangements for blood transfusion was launched in March. And dentists from all three Services have been brought into a single, tri-Service Agency which was also launched in March.

7. Wherever possible, opportunities will continue to be taken to rationalise property. The need for the Royal Defence Medical College to be sited at Millbank is being examined."

Haslar's closure needs to be cancelled, and Halton, as the one remaining hospital still owned by the MoD, needs to be rescued from its slide into dereliction and re-opened. Two military hospitals doesn't seem excessive for today's pace of operations, and I'm sure that the local NHS trusts would welcome the extra capacity for civilian patients.

insty66
16th Oct 2006, 23:12
Memories and wishes:{

Pontius Navigator
17th Oct 2006, 07:09
An intriguing hospital was Bighi in Malta. Although we had left a number of years before, the hospital at Bighi was still empty and derelict in 1998.

On an Island with a severe land shortage it was notable how many ex-military sites were abandoned. The barracks and quarters at Tigne beach were only then being used as emergency accommodation for migrants. The hospital OTOH was still deserted. Windows wide open, the huge doors agape.

It was as if we had just left the day before.

mayorofgander
17th Oct 2006, 07:36
Well done. The 'stacker' part of my name has obviously alluded you thus far.:ugh: Although with previous infantry service and a few hairy dets (not the "oh my hotel room doesn't have a mini-bar" type) since being a 'REMF' I like to think of myself as a previously teethy REMF.

You're not in Int by any chance are you or perhaps being so scorning of REMF's you are actually an underwater knife fighting specialist with Walt clearance?

Copy of Angling Times in the post!!:cool:

MOG

dionysius
17th Oct 2006, 07:43
Drove past Wroughton the other day (my daughter was born there ), and it is now completely gone and has been replaced by a housing development and a conference centre.all that remains are the quarters which I believe have been sold off...:bored:

There was also a Naval hospital in Gibraltar.

FL575
17th Oct 2006, 07:52
I don't know why we do not use some of the excellent American medical facilities that are in the UK.

At least our servicemen would be among other servicemen.

teeteringhead
17th Oct 2006, 07:59
And wasn't there one at Cosford?? Or did the nurses that frequented Ternhill come from elsewhere?? :E

One had ones appendix out at Woolwich Military Hospital. Remember ward rounds were scary with large moustachioed Brigadier CO, accompanied by even scarier, larger and only slightly less moustachioed full Colonel QA matron.. Bedside conversation went thus:

Brig: Ah, Sqn Ldr Teeters, what are you in for?
Teteers: Appendicectomy Sir!
Brig: And how old are you?
Teeters: 39 Sir.
Brig: 39! Harrumph! Should have had your appendix out years ago!

:confused: :confused: :confused:

endplay
17th Oct 2006, 10:52
There are a total of 6 MDHU's. They are at:

MDHU Birmingham (part of the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine), Selly Oak Hospital, University Hospital Birmingham NHS Foundation Trust

MDHU Derriford, Derriford Hospital, Plymouth Hospitals NHS Trust

MDHU Frimley Park, Frimley Park Hospital NHS Foundation Trust

MDHU Northallerton, Friarage Hospital, South Tees Hospitals NHS Trust

MDHU Peterborough, Peterborough and Stamford Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust

MDHU Portsmouth, Queen Alexandra's Hospital, Portsmouth Hospitals NHS Trust

As well as getting Service staff at these locations the trusts are paid an annual retainer to accelerate military patients up the waiting list.

Widger
17th Oct 2006, 11:01
You all missed Stonehouse in Plymouth off the list:{

ORAC
17th Oct 2006, 11:08
So what has happened to the Queen Alexandra´s Royal Army Nursing Service?

There are a super Matron at the PM hospital in Cyprus during the mid 70s. Honorary member of 280SU mess, she used have beach barbeques with her nurses and invite us all along. :ok:

Jackonicko
17th Oct 2006, 11:10
"Copy of Angling Times in the post!!"

Better make that an Oxford English, as well, since the spelling of the word 'eluded' has "alluded" him.....:}

GlosMikeP
17th Oct 2006, 11:29
The real shame of it from the loss of real DMS, aside from the obvious loss to the Services, is the very high standards of care the military hospitals had. They set the standard that the NHS should have met, but didn't and from which there has been further decline. The old mil hospitals also provided a valuable boost to the capacity of local civilian services.

My wife, a highly experienced specialist A&E nurse in the NHS at the time, was astonished when she visited Wroughton, where I had major surgery as I was leaving the RAF. "This is what a hospital is meant to look like and how it's meant to work". It was clean, orderly and structured.

The only way now to get the standard of care that was available is to pay private.

Thud_and_Blunder
17th Oct 2006, 15:07
Stonehouse - just had my Class 1 medical renewed there yesterday. Amazing island of calm and decent buildings wedged into the seedier end of Plymouth. Oh, and the doc who does the JAA-Laying-On-Of-Hands there was the SMO at Sek Kong in 1981/2...

Flew over Nocton Hall last month with the Air Ambo - sad to see it these days. If my Dad hadn't been there having his Murgatroyds reamed he'd have never met my Mum (Ward Sister). Wonder what he used for a chat-up line? As for my Farmers, they went up the chimney at Wroughton after my 3rd op. Flew past the site with the Pol/Air Amb last week - sadly just as dionysius described it.

O2thief
17th Oct 2006, 16:26
Had my tonsils out at Rinteln, near Gutersloh, in the late 50's.

dodgysootie
17th Oct 2006, 16:41
Does anyone know how we deal with Post traumatic stress syndrome, apart from brufen and tubegrip!!

BEagle
17th Oct 2006, 16:50
Get pissed?

They used to be able to sort that out at Wroughton as well - a few folk I knew (no, not me!) went in there and came out just fine....

movadinkampa747
17th Oct 2006, 16:54
Treatment for PTSD usually begins with a detailed evaluation,which can be very personal and the development of a treatment plan that meets the unique needs of the survivor or survivors. Usually, PTSD-specific treatment is begun only after the survivor,or survivors has been safely removed from a crisis situation i.e they have been flown home:ok: . If a survivor is still being exposed to trauma (such as ongoing roadside bombs, mortar attacks and being shouted at):eek: , is severely depressed or suicidal:( : suspect is experiencing extreme panic or disorganized thinking:confused: , or is in need of alcohol detoxification, it is important to address these crisis problems as a part of the first phase of treatment:8 .
The treatment can include learning skills for coping with anxiety:uhoh: (such as breathing retraining or biofeedback. Isnt that fish food?) and negative thoughts ("cognitive restructuring"),managing anger:ugh: ,preparing for stress reactions:ooh: ,handling future trauma symptoms:p ,addressing urges to kill prisoners in your care, when trauma symptoms occur:8 ("relapse prevention"), and communicating and relating effectively with people (Taleban or Iraqi insurgants):* .

GlosMikeP
17th Oct 2006, 17:07
I think after reading this, I'll take BEagle's advice......as long as I don't turn into one of the chaps we had on the Sqn years ago.

He was known as the Amoco Lager 'A legend in his lunch time', who went for re-training but came back as strong as ever, converted to vodka.

Bigt
17th Oct 2006, 17:10
Regret to inform this forum that I helped to demolish the hospital at RAF Cosford.......in my defence I was told there were others and it was in abit of a state

The Helpful Stacker
17th Oct 2006, 17:34
Does anyone know how we deal with Post traumatic stress syndrome, apart from brufen and tubegrip!!

Most of the work has been contacted out to the Priory Group (although a small amount used to be under Nuffield Hospitals) and I am pleased to report their facilities at Woking are of a very high standard although their knowledge of military working practices and the environments we can find ourselves in can be a little lacking, which is why access to a CPN (from DCMH at Brize Norton in my case) is also made available.

Speaking to others who have been through the system some (especially the Army) report that they feel a little isolated from the military when in Priory Group hospitals and 'abandoned'.

GlosMikeP
17th Oct 2006, 18:22
Speaking to others who have been through the system some (especially the Army) report that they feel a little isolated from the military when in Priory Group hospitals and 'abandoned'.
That's something else lost on politicians: the 'band of brothers' expectation to serve with and be cared for by people in uniform, and I don't mean just a white coat. For the shame of it, I hadn't thought of that aspect until reminded here either.

ZH875
17th Oct 2006, 18:33
Classic quote from an Army Health Care Assistant at MDHU Peterborough, not long after it had opened in the geriatric ward, which was in the process of being moved, but still had a few of the old folks in....


"I didn't join up to look after geriatrics, I joined up to look after fit healthy young men"

Still, she was just what our boys need...........

ZH875
17th Oct 2006, 18:35
Regret to inform this forum that I helped to demolish the hospital at RAF Cosford.......in my defence I was told there were others and it was in abit of a state
Ah, the pleasure of two weeks jankers, mopping the hospital floors and chatting with the nurses, only beaten by mopping out the SNCOs mess bar and having a free pint given to me by the barman.

...The foolishness of youth, right things, wrong order.

SamCaine
17th Oct 2006, 18:55
"... fit healthy young men"

Just the right job to go into, health care. If the fit young men were healthy they wouldn't need medics. :ugh:

BEagle
17th Oct 2006, 19:14
What - such as mopping out the nurses?

Cumbrian Fell
17th Oct 2006, 19:58
What was the name (RAF...) of the USAF Psychiatric Hospital down the road from Wroughton (at the top of the hill above Wroughton Village)? A couple of barrack blocks remain as socila housing however the business side is now behind some scary fences and a small sign 'NUDELTA Corporation'. When did it close/any stories about it?

LOTA
17th Oct 2006, 20:33
I remember being treated/visiting a load of top-notch specialists (all senior RAF men or recently retired) at the RAF Central Medical Establishment somewhere in the West End in the late 1980s. Is it still there?

Amusingly (or confusingly) it was situated next door to the local STD clinic!

lightningmate
17th Oct 2006, 20:51
LOTA,

CME, otherwise known as the Retired RAF Consultants' Luncheon Club, closed some years ago. The RAF Medical Boards are now domiciled at Henlow, within RAF CAM.

lm

Almost_done
17th Oct 2006, 20:58
I owe a great debt to the midwifes at TPMH for the birth of my 2 children, I/my wife would not have received the same level of care in an NHS hospital.
However subsequently I had to seek care under the NHS as a serving airman and I can't knock the service I received, I must say I had the best care available.

The NHS are target focused now, who's fault is that?

How long before we become target focused?

God forbid that day!!

DON T
17th Oct 2006, 21:27
Always thought it was strange that CME had the treadmill for testing your dicky ticker up on the 4th floor. The lift could only take a stretcher if it was stood on end. If your dicky ticker proved to be too dicky whilst you were on the treadmill, they transported you across to the Middlesex Hospital opposite, strapped to the stretcher and stood up in the lift.

buoy15
17th Oct 2006, 21:28
Jacko
Excellent Maggie Thatcher yuck-speak!
ORAC
Had a super night with her but forgotten her name?
Now, the last Matron at Haslar Creek, she was really something!
Jean Bancroft - where are you? Hope your'e well and happy - Love and best wishes - B15

fergineer
17th Oct 2006, 23:25
Cumbrian,
The USAF base down the road was called Burderop, It closed down wee back, Was used as a school for a while, then when the school moved it became a hospital for the disabled so I would say the USAF went from there early to late 60s. I was at school there 1965 till 69 when the school moved, worked there as a volunteer till I joined up in 71. Spent time in most of the RAF hospitals both for socialising and for injuries caused by too much sport, was looked after well each time. Was a brat at Halton and stationed at Lyneham so used both the NAAFI,s as social areas!!!!

Cumbrian Fell
18th Oct 2006, 06:57
Fergineer - thanks for this. I recently found references to RAF Burderop in some National Archive files at Kew. It all now makes (some) sense. Thanks.

SamCaine
22nd Oct 2006, 08:56
From the BBC News wesite http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6074164.stm

jindabyne
22nd Oct 2006, 12:56
Had my nuts crushed at Cosford in '73;and in those days it was the full anaesthetic and two nights job.