Pilot Drain - Apart from the RFDS

[Guptar]

Ok, pages debating th e pros and cons of the RFDS is enough. What abut the rest f the industry. Is there actually a shortage of pilots


Grade 1 Instructors

Low level Charter guys

Metro (turbine driver)

[R.Cruizo]

Some of the light to medium Turbine charter operators ( my own company included) are currently finding difficult to get pilots with experience ie 1500-2000hrs +.

I don't know if that contitutes a shortage.

Operators higher up the food chain , Skywest , Alliance are still turning guys away with 5- 7000 hrs. Obviously no shortage there.


RC

[alidad]

Why would you bother to go into an industry with a barrier to entry of $100K to do your licences and rates ( not including the opportunity cost of lost earnings while studying). And what is at the end of it? If you do OK after a few years you might end up in the left hand seat of a Brazilia on the princely sum of $55K (including super) or if you REALLY make the big time with a jet operator such as National Jet you will pay $15K for a B717 endorsement and get 20 roster changes in a month.
Oh, and by the way within a couple of years all these hard years of work will come to nought as you will be by-passed for the decent jet jobs by some rich boy who has paid the $$$$ for a MPL- Multi Crew Pilot Licence who will do 150 hours in a sim and go into the right hand seat of an A320/B737 etc on apprentice wages.

[The Hill]

How about we try and be positive about this "so called" movement alidad.
From what i hear, there are more jobs in GA now than previously.
Havent been in the oz scene for a while but if it's true, it's good to see!

[Aussie]

Yeah lets hope CASA doesnt approve this MPL, otherwise interesting times ahead!

Aussie

[the wizard of auz]

Some of the light to medium Turbine charter operators ( my own company included) are currently finding difficult to get pilots with experience ie 1500-2000hrs +.
could it be that there isn't anyone out there that wants to pay to gain that much experiance?. the reason that there isn't a glut of pilots out there with that amount of experiance is that there isnt anyone out there employing people with no experiance...................... so where are the new pilots meant to get all this turbine experiance?
A catch 22 me thinks. if you don't employ and train em, they aint gunna be there when you need em. :ooh:

[bushy]

The times they are a changing. If you employ and train them, you need to keep them for a while. The future will have lots of casual employment (not good for anyone), contracts, purchased training, multicrew pilot licences and bonding. Just like the RAAF and the airlines.

I forecast this a long time ago. The floods of wannabies have been excessive, and have undermined the career GA pilot (yes he DID exist, and will again) and all but destroyed conditions in GA. It's all been artificial. There never were that many jobs. So now the career GA pilot has gone overseas, or into another job, it is not so easy to find 1500 hour, or 3000 hour pilots. The professional bush pilot hardly exists anymore. and many of the wannabies have gone somewhere else to try to pay off their loans.

But of course we cannot expect the "highly educated" pilots to stay in GA though, can we?

[IORRA]

Interesting, astute points there DirectAnywhere. The effects of an MPL licence on existing supplies of GA 'cheap' (airline hour-building) labour will be interesting indeed.

How quickly things are changing...

[the wizard of auz]

Next, and it's only my thought, most if not all people entered aviation to fly for an airline. It was true for me. I know it's a generalisation but bear with me.
True, not all of us were heading for career in GA. But some of us were, and it was/is pretty hard to scratch a living out of it when you have to compete with the "I'll work for next to nothing" brigade.

The professional bush pilot hardly exists anymore. and many of the wannabies have gone somewhere else to try to pay off their loans.
there are a few of us Professional bush pilots left, but very very few. it was exactly these wannabe people that made the industry almost impossible to make a living from, never mind pay out a loan.
I think the employer paying for the endorsments, then bonding the pilot for an amount of time, proportional to the cost of the endorsment would be quite appropriate. win-win for the industry. employer gets an employee thats going to stay for a while, employee gets an endo at minimal to no cost and a job to build hours in.
Now we just gotta get the "work for nothing brigade" sorted out and things look a little better for GA.

[Death made simple]

I agree with the Wizard. Bonding wouldn't be a bad idea. Just wish the big boys would look at that. :(

[botero]

yadot

AIPA has written to the minister and is challenging the MPL saying it is bad idea that will lead to a reduced standard of Australian pilot compared to what we know today and is simply being pushed by airlines in the interests of the airline's bottom line.

[Swingwing]

Would like to throw something in which is talked about here occasionally, and that is increasing globalisation of all industries, not just aviation.

At present, pilots in Australia essentially represent one of the few remaining "closed shops". Along with professions like doctors and lawyers, it is basically "no ticket no start" - although we are obviously seeing the increase in overseas trained doctors in response to medical shortages. This situation has been tenable in aviation because supply and demand have been roughly balanced, and because the barriers to entry are so high.

However, the same closed borders do not exist elsewhere, particularly in the boom markets of India and China. Expat labour (pilots and management) there basically makes many such operations run. As markets become increasingly open, labour will go where it is needed. This is the elephant in the room when people try to confine the debate about pilot shortages to the domestic Australian market.

The same applies to capital. In my view, QANTAS will not exist in its current form in 20 years time. Its free cash flows have been sufficient to date to fund expansions and aircraft purchases, but this can't last forever. Basically it needs (or will need) more capital in the decades ahead than the foreign ownership restrictions currently allow it to raise.

Accordingly I think we will eventually see the foreign ownership cap lifted (or at least substantially relaxed). As soon as that happens, QANTAS will be ripe for takeover by a cashed up foreign carrier like Cathay or SQ, probably with support from a global private equity firm - almost exactly like what we are seeing now in the media space.

When that happens, what will happen for pilots? The situation will probably be a whole lot more open than we currently see with the restricted set of players (AIPA, JPC, QF etc). Who will have the leverage - pilots or owners? If the Asia wide shortages that many predict are biting, then maybe pilots. But whatever else happens, I think there will be much more two way flow of labour than we currently see. Perhaps a key enabler for this would be an ATPL (like the JAR one) which is more transferable throughout Asia, although I admit this does not look likely through current fora like ASEAN.

Would be interested in the thoughts of those like Chimbu Chuck, who are living and working in this environment now and who know a lot more than me about this sort of thing...
cheers

SW