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Two's in
14th Oct 2006, 21:47
A couple of threads here show disagreement between "youngsters" doing exciting things, and old farts (like me) calling it dangerous. I think there is an underlying problem behind this in the nanny state antics such as certified tradesmen being solely responsible for putting up Christmas Tree lights, or wearing safety glasses to change light bulbs, the problem being that any such Health and Safety inspired nonsense teaches people to treat all official advice the same dismissive way. So when someone says "you need an electrical tradesman to change the fuse on the Mess toaster" and then the Authorizing Officer says, "not below 250' MSD", the risk is that people will treat both restrictions on their personal freedom with the same contempt.

Recognizing real danger and risk, instead of this litigation inspired nonsense, will become harder and harder, and thus ironically put service people at greater overall risk when they are unable to correctly identify real risk and mitigate it accordingly, because "the H&S representative normally does that kind of thing".

With low flying specifically, youngsters are not only fearless, they are immortal. That is why their flying is supervised and controlled to allow them to explore the envelope without actually becoming a safety statistic every time. Fearless, however, does not equal Reckless, and over time they hopefully acquire the knowledge and experience that will allow them to pass on their wisdom through the supervision of others.

When you are in your early twenties, and screaming around some God-forsaken hellhole in HM's finest aerial weapons platform, delivering instant unpleasantness to the bad guys, it is even more important that you don't lose your life (or a valuable asset) to the impetuousness of youth. That is when the real rewards of arduous training and routine pay off, because your safety should be second nature. By throwing away all the rules and restrictions because nobody is looking, simply puts you that closer to the inevitable tragic outcome.

Individual views on this are actually a simple mathematical function, whereby the number of times you exceed the Auth and descend below MSD are inversely proportional to the number of times you have stood at the graveside of a mate, in your best uniform, and thrown dirt on his coffin lid. It is also a direct function of years of marriage multiplied by the number of kids, it is a subset of how many Boards of Inquiry you have been on, and has a quadratic relationship to how much imagination you have.

Youth is youth, and the Armed Services have a long and glorious history of "youngsters" fighting incredible odds in battle to achieve outstanding results, but there is a time and a place for derring-do, and I suggest it's not every time you strap an aircraft to your backside thinking nobody's watching.

FCWhippingBoy
14th Oct 2006, 22:50
An email recently received ...


TO ALL THE KIDS WHO WERE BORN IN THE 60' s, 70's & early 80's !!

First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us.
They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes.
Then after that trauma, our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paints.
We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking
As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.
Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was always a special treat.
We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle.
We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this.
We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank soda pop with sugar in it, but we weren't overweight because...... WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING!!
We would leave home in the morning and play all day, along as we were back when the streetlights came on.
No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K.
We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem .
no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet or Internet chat rooms..........WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!
We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents .
We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.
We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks and tennis balls and although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes.
We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just yelled for them!
Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!!
The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!
This generation has produced some of the best risk!-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever!
The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.
We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned HOW TO DEAL WITH IT ALL!
And YOU are one of them!
CONGRATULATIONS!
You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up as kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated our lives for our own good, and while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how brave their parents were.


Pretty much sums it up for me! Things are a bit out of perspective these days! Some rules should be respected, others are just silly!

rudekid
15th Oct 2006, 00:15
Two's In,

If it's not everytime you don't think someone's watching, then how many times should it be?

Is it okay if you KNOW you're not being watched? :E

As one who is slowly getting older and less 'energetic' with aircraft, I appreciate your sentiments. We're never going to stop it though, the little shoulder devil will always win!:}

And despite years of effort I've never had a quadratic relationship.;)

buoy15
15th Oct 2006, 00:22
FC
Excellent!
I suspect the nanny state fun police will be out looking for you now, having posted such non-spun, potentially alarming and refreshing truth!
I personally preferred the worms in the crab apples we got when scrumping - they seemed to taste sweeter:p
Loving many, Trusting a few, Always paddling my own canoe!

Blacksheep
15th Oct 2006, 02:35
Danger or calculated risks?

To the Tornado pilots who regularly blew tiles off my roof in Barton under Needwood :ok: Great job fellers.

To the C130 crew who blew all the leaves off our plum tree :ok: :ok:
Hope you enjoyed the plums! ;)

I'm sure the skills you guys learned "practicing" low flying are mighty useful to you these days and I appreciate your efforts. To those who are still learning - Keep it up chaps.

Tiger_mate
15th Oct 2006, 07:04
Having had to copy and paste CFs post into word, resizing it to '12' and changing the colour to black just in order to read it is probably indicative of me being 'old and bold'.

Anyone else remember the very young SH thruster who was a wild child getting a career caption staring by scribing an Air Clues article 'No wazzing, no crashing'. The poacher turned gamekeeper then went on the be a very young senior officer (where he remains to this day).

Despite his success in rank, I'll bet there is many a moment when he longs for the 'bad old days' when he could co-write sqn songs ripping the arse out of his, then senior officers to outstanding effect, and wazzing without crashing.

Nobody seems to sing nowadays either. Pension incoming:ok:

charliegolf
15th Oct 2006, 16:10
Tiger

Gissa clew. I open with either longpole or scummole, both having exceeded my every expectation, promotion-wise!

CG

Charlie Luncher
15th Oct 2006, 22:48
Exciting = you survive and feel alive
Dangerous = nearly didn't survive.
Adrenalin is brown and smelly.:hmm:

Charlie sends

glum
15th Oct 2006, 23:10
The cliche is that you start with a bag of luck and an empty bag labelled experience. You hope to fill the second one before the first one runs out.

And it's not an example exclusive to flying is it? Now we have ABS, safety cages and air bags, we all feel safer in our cars, and drive accordingly.