Seconds from death as plane's engine cuts out - LAM J41 scary story

[Deskjocky]

A real pearl from IOL, loved the part about the American Doctor Vomiting in the back.....
Anyone have a more....errr accurate version of events?? Seems like a very professional job by the pilots:D
Barbara Cole
October 11 2006 at 12:36PM
Seventeen terrified, screaming, praying and vomiting aircraft passengers who had just left Durban, feared for their lives at the weekend when an engine on their plane failed - and they plunged from a height of 14 000 feet to just 800 feet from the ground.
And on Tuesday they said they owed their lives to the "superhuman" efforts of the Mozambican pilot, aided by the co-pilot, who managed to handle the stricken plane and prevent them from crash landing and perishing. The pilots have not been identified.
Although passengers did not know it, a Civil Aviation Authority investigation on Tuesday revealed that they were in even worse trouble than they had imagined.
After the right engine cut out because of icy conditions, the auto-restart equipment, which should have then kicked in on the Jetstream 41 aircraft, also failed to start on its own.
The aircraft was at 14 000 feet and climbing to 16 000 feet when the engine failed about 40 nautical miles from Durban International Airport en route for Maputo, Mozambique. The pilot sent out a mayday emergency message to Durban and decided to head back to Durban. But then the auto-restart equipment failed to work - and the plane continued to descend. It had dropped to 5 000 feet when the pilot decided to manually restart the engine.
He struggled to do so at first - all the time the plane continued to drop. But the unnamed hero pilot saved the day when the plane was 800 feet from the ground.
Having gained control, he then managed to get the plane to climb again and return to Durban without any further incident.
The drama that could well have ended in tragedy, unfolded at 9.15pm on Sunday after the small LAM Air Mocambique aircraft with three crew members, flew out of Durban 30 minutes late.
If it was a nerve-wracking experience up in the cockpit, and it was terrifying for the passengers and air hostesses.
"There was a loud bang, but we did not know what it was. Then the plane immediately began to nosedive and we all thought we were going to die.
"You could hear people praying and asking God to spare them; saying that they would never see their children again.
"Some people were screaming and others were vomiting," recalled passenger Walter Simeoni, the group manager of the Frame Textile Group in New Germany and president of the International Textile Manufacturers Federation.
As the plane dropped from the sky, Simeoni, "made his peace" and hoped that when the impact came, it did not hurt.
Other terrified passengers recalled that when the first engine "went", the other engine "screamed, revved and shuddered" and there were some who thought that would also blow.
There was a smell of oil and while some passengers yelled in fear, others sat ashen-faced and awaited their fate in silence.
The pressure in the cabin was so great, it was impossible to move your hands, recalled Simeoni, who said even when the plane had levelled out again, people continued to worry about their safety.
Three fire brigade engines were waiting for the plane and followed it along the runway in case they were needed. But passengers could see smoke coming from one engine.
The lucky-to-be alive and relieved passengers applauded the captain and co-pilot as they touched down and later shook their hands.
"Then the passengers all hugged one another as we were not supposed to be alive," said Simeoni.
And as the Civil Aviation Authority carried out its preliminary investigation into what went wrong yesterday, many passengers said they were still shaken by their near-death experience.
"I believe another 30 seconds or so and that would have been it. This was a life-and-death situation," said one passenger last night, who did not want to be named.
"There's no doubt that the pilot saved our lives and we should be grateful," another passenger said.
One woman - an American doctor working in Maputo - had vomited so much and was so weak that she had to be taken into the airport terminal in a wheelchair.
No one was hurt and the passengers got trauma counselling.
The general manager of LAM Air Mocambique, Faustino Massitela, could not be contacted for comment on Tuesday

[George Tower]

That's a good-un. In a week where there has already been one "attempted hijacking" there has to be a tad more news in SA:rolleyes:
Shame there wasn't two nuns on board to complete the scene of panic:p

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Seems like a very professional job by the pilots:D

Drop from 14000' to 800' to recover? Not sure about that...:suspect:

[George Tower]

Drop from 14000' to 800' to recover? Not sure about that

SRT, ever heard the phrase "don't believe everything you read in the papers"

[Solid Rust Twotter]

You mean the bit about the crew doing what they're trained for and saving all their lives...?:E


Edited to add:

Just read on another site that they couldn't feather the propellor on the faulty engine and it appears they were lower than 800' when they recovered, so well done, all things considered.

[Balmy]

I just love the original post by Barbara Cole........."Seventeen terrified, screaming, praying and vomiting aircraft passengers".......... "and they plunged from a height of 14 000 feet to just 800 feet from the ground.".......Indeed:rolleyes:

Dont you just hate it when aircraft just "plunge" like that.....you know the way they do.........

Talk about "journalistic licence" They should ban all journalists from writing about aviation incidents

[Avvy]

Well it wouldn’t be the Hollywood story that we all love so much. Surely there must be a guest appearance from some Oscar nominated actor. (forgive my sarcasm…one of those days)

[AfricanEagle]

After having read the original post, I can only immagine what the journalist would have been capable of writing had she been on the aeroplane .... :rolleyes:

[sayswho]

Surprised you didnt take the oppertunity to point out that its the aircraft / operation that Airlink has ties with, maybe if we want the truth we should ask them

Aah what am I saying they even lie to their own - bet they could give some great story though :)

Keep it up guys and girls you doing great ! At least you give the CAA something to do :p

[Deskjocky]

Far as I know Link just lease the aircraft to them, crew etc is local so I didn’t feel it was relevant at the time. But in retrospect Link do do the maintenance on that J41…:} :}

[fluffyfan]

ahh thank you DJ have not laughed like that in ages:)

Aviation reporters are wonderful creatures

Just a thought, because who knows the truth ? I wonder if the the Hero pilot turned on the engine anti-ice before he entered icing conditions? if not and this is pure speculation they are lucky both engines did not flame out, imagine the vomit then.

[snotneus]

On the J41 you need 2 put the engine anti-icing on manually before entering the clouds, this however drains alot of performance. The temptation is thus always there not to take anti-icing. This is a practice, as many have found out, can lead to a flame out. This also has nothing to do with the maintenance but bad airmanship.
Now if you were climbing on attitude mode and were to lose an engine, then forget to lower the nose, the aircraft, covered in ice, will stall. Stalling an aircraft on one engine, is stupid. The aircraft, as i read it then spiralled "the pressure was so great...."

There guys were VERY lucky.

BTW, ATC lost them from radar passing 200'

[I.R.PIRATE]

Perhaps they ended up feathering the wrong engine...Drift down height with two engine inop in the J-41 is about 200ft if I recall. Just before you start vomiting, bleeding and crying.

Heard from sources in Deben that the pilots were found crying on the apron after landing.

[Balmy]

Well if the above are true perhaps the crew were not so much hero as the villan......and there may have been some finger trouble.
Would be interesting to read the incident report, see the FDR records and hear the CVR.

[George Tower]

What annoys me particularly about SA ( i have to say the Uk doesn't seem as bad in this department generally) is that there is a pi$$ poor standard of journalism when it comes to aviation. A few days later and we're still none the wiser. If something as serious as what is being described happened then surely there must be some follow-up and at least some clear idea as to what happened. At the moment its just rumours, and when the press cry wolf as they do a lot we don't take them seriously.

Be very interested to hear the results of the investigation on this one.

[Avvy]

Heard from a passenger on that flight that after they landed the pilots got to the bottom of the stairs and fell to their knee’s crying. Hero’s with emotion, welcome to the new millennium. :ok: Suppose in their defence I probably wouldn’t be walking down telling jokes and discussing holiday stories.

[Deskjocky]

Im told Link are now looking to convert that aircraft into a frieghter, can say I blame them- must be really smelly now with all that vomit:} :} :}

[Balmy]

seems to be a spelling glitch in the last post....just not sure if it should be freighter or frighter???...I gues they dont have to convert it to the latter.....sounds like it already qualifies.....

[Contract Dog]

at least cargo does not vomit when you scare the $hit out of it

[nugpot]

Im told Link are now looking to convert that aircraft into a frieghter, can say I blame them- must be really smelly now with all that vomit:} :} :}

I heard it would probably not fly again. Exceeded Vne by some margin.

[Shrike200]

I heard it would probably not fly again. Exceeded Vne by some margin.

Ouch - What really happened here? Sounds like a pretty rough event! :uhoh:

[I.R.PIRATE]

Aircraft is gone though...not parked where it was after the event. Seems like it had mysteriously disappeared. anyone know where it might have gone to?

[Deskjocky]

Stuffed up aerie? probably will go cheap….meat and potatoes to at least one of the local operators- even if they don’t operate the type perhaps a chance to break into the lucrative “turbo prop” segment of the local market??:E :E

[nugpot]

I only heard rumours, so lets wait for someone with some facts.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Got to feel sorry for the poor contract bloke who ends up flying it in the summer storms one night on a freight run with a few "extra" kgs loaded by Shonkey Freight Carriers without his knowledge....:ooh: :(

[Balmy]

Nugpot......now that would be interesting......other than pilot induced.... why would an aircraft exceed VNE as a result of an engine failure.......maybe we were hard on the reporter.......??

[I.R.PIRATE]

next question : can you reach Vne with one engine inop and not feathered. You need quite a serious dive, if my aero-d knowledge serves me right.

[wrinkly wings]

[quote=George Tower;2913446]What annoys me particularly about SA ( i have to say the Uk doesn't seem as bad in this department generally) is that there is a pi$$ poor standard of journalism when it comes to aviation. A few days later and we're still none the wiser. If something as serious as what is being described happened then surely there must be some follow-up and at least some clear idea as to what happened.


Well considering they have so many rapes, murders etc to report every day, you can't be too surprised when they don't follow up on an 'all's well that ends well" story!:bored:

[Jetstream_lover]

You know what really cracks me up about all this.........................is the fact that the intitial investigation has not even come the light yet!!!
It is really so funny to listen to so many drivers say who is to blame when they know or know of the guy/gal and back them up, then all of a sudden become CSI African Aviation Investigators and blaming anyone who is someone they dont know!

Why not let the professionals do there job and get on with it, after that then maybe WE can all speculate, before that, lets keep our traps shut, fly planes and see what happens!!!!

Or maybe am I just on a different planet.

[Avvy]

probably on a different planet. It is a rumour network after all.

[wljohnson]

Hello all,

I am the famous American doc mentioned in the article I'm sorry to say. (Actually, glad to be still here and able to say it. I promise next time I'm postive I'm going to die I'll be much more dignified.) A friend directed me to this website. Thanks for all your commentary. It certainly helps me understand it. Does anyone know any more information on the outcome of the official investigation by now?

wj

[FlingWingKing]

Would be great to get your version of events on that particular scary day. So far all we have is a dogy report from a certain Miss Cole.

[Shrike200]

Hello all,

I am the famous American doc mentioned in the article I'm sorry to say. (Actually, glad to be still here and able to say it. I promise next time I'm postive I'm going to die I'll be much more dignified.) A friend directed me to this website. Thanks for all your commentary. It certainly helps me understand it. Does anyone know any more information on the outcome of the official investigation by now?

wj

It's great that you've shown a presence here! As FWK asked, we'd love to get your version of events, as best you recall.

[Avi8tor]

I was having a chat to a very well placed source. It would seem the downloads off the FDR are out. The newspaper report is NOT a huge fabrication. That is about how it happened. The aircraft was upside down twice, pulled in excess of 5g's and was at 410KIAS.

Seems BAe have been out, extensive inspections carried out and the aircraft will be flying again, all be it with diff props and engines.

[FlingWingKing]

How, in the name of Orville and Wilbur Wright, did they manage to get upside down, pull 5g's and exceed 410kts????!!!!!!

[WideGlide]

Would be great to get your version of events on that particular scary day. So far all we have is a dogy report from a certain Miss Cole.
Certain Miss Cole is an accredited author for info. Anyway next time you are out in icing in your garrett powered beauty let ice cubes build up on the engine nacelles bang on both anti ice at the same time and watch how quick your expression will change!

[I.R.PIRATE]

so be it, but someone f#$# up bigtime!!!

[Gouabafla]

Hi WJ,

Glad to see that you made it to Cleveland - hope your baggage stayed with you. I must admit, if I'd read this thread beforehand, I'd have thought twice about pointing you at pprune! Hope the move north west has gone well.

Edited to add that I've just told my wife about this, and it turns out that a family member who lives in SA was also on the same flight. It's a small world.

[George Tower]

Pprune at it's best is a forum of passionate aviators and people with an interest in all things aviation pooling their knowledge for the benefit of all concerned, at its worst it brings out some almighty hand-bag fighting and finger pointing.

In South Africa we also have the backdrop of some of the worst aviation reporting in the world (crying wolf springs to mind).....well compared to the UK anyway.

The problem with this incident is that we (as a community of aviators) have little of factual information about the event in question, save for a piece of newsprint, of which there has been no follow up since. Consequently I'm sure I could speak for most of the guys and girls that read these pages and say we'd just like to know what happened and what lessons may be learnt for the future. By the Grace of God everyone walked away from this incident but it would be great to know the full facts, and have the lessons shared. That way aviation can continue to be the safest form of transport.

[Beta Light]

If the 410kts / 5 G is true ,then agree with i.R. pirate.

Fling wing king I think it's called putting in the wrong rudder / cross controls etc.

No "hero" here.

[Romeo E.T.]

I was having a chat to a very well placed source. It would seem the downloads off the FDR are out. The newspaper report is NOT a huge fabrication. That is about how it happened. The aircraft was upside down twice, pulled in excess of 5g's and was at 410KIAS.


Having done the Jetsream Rating in 1994 at Prestwick, my tech knowledge is old and rusty, but in the event of both engines flaming out...thus both generators go off-line......how much and for how long does the EFIS instrumentation stay alive and reliable for....could it be that they lost sit-awareness because of "duff-gen" instruments...ie "172 secs to live"

[I.R.PIRATE]

But does the aircraft not sport any standby instruments for exactly that case (both gennies us)?
Basic would still have to apply here in the case of losing both, surely attitude would be most the number one thing to watch. I cant see you getting so 'lost' that you end up at 410kias, unless you are not up to scratch on some aspect...

...fully aware that not having been in the cockpit at the time it is not my place to make a judgement, I am just incredibly curious how they got into that situation. Not to point fingers, but as an avid aviation enthusiast/pilot its fascinating beyond belief that the situation on that fateful day got so way-the-farq-out-of-hand?:ok:

[FlingWingKing]

If my memory serves me right, the initial report stated that the right engine failed and failed to auto-restart.

In general terms, it is good airmanship (needless to point out that its also a safety consideration) to put enging anti-ice on when the TAT reduces to below +10 deg C and in visible moisture. Enough said about that. None of us have the facts, so we cant really comment on what REALLY happened......

.....BUT.....

....it sounds to me as if they indeed did loose "situational awareness" (as someone put it) and went into a spiral dive.....

I think the effects of a spiral dive is taught in lesson 4 or 5, but I cant remember...too long ago...the symptoms being ....

....increasing airspeed....
....tightning of the turn....
....increasing G forces....
....rapid loss of altitude...

But then again, I can only speculate that someone did indeed stroke the cat a "little" bit.

[wljohnson]

Hello again,

Well, I'm not sure I was in the best frame of mind to recall all the details, but it started with a loud bang, then things got quieter (I was on the right side of the plane, so if that engine went out, I guess that jives.) The plane listed and dipped a bit for a minute or two and then seemed to go into a nose dive (I guess a spiral?) which lasted a long time, maybe 30 or 40 seconds at least. There were definitely a lot of G forces as we came out of it. I couldn't move my hands or arms for a few seconds, skin on my face flapping, the whole bit.

Then we turned back to Durban, but the flight seemed still a bit rocky. I was sort of a basketcase during that portion, so I may be recalling things worse than they were.

Can someone explain "VNE" to me and what 410 KIAS means?

Thanks!

wj

[Q4NVS]

Vne - Never Exceed Speed

KIAS - Knots Indicated Airspeed
(i.e. Nautical Miles per Hour: 1 Knot = 1.852 Km/hr)

Sounds like a Spiral Dive, Yes.

[sir.pratt]

VNE - velocity never exceed. it is the max speed that the plane is allowed to go. ever. i don't know what it is for the jetstream - 300kts maybe? it won't be 410.

KIAS - knots indicated airspeed.

[sir.pratt]

you beat me to it.
above Vne aircraft tend to have issues. like breaking up in flight......exceeding design limits is not good for planes.....