View Full Version : ltn snow closed "AGAIN"

21st Mar 2001, 22:05
when will ltn airport management remove there heads from there backsides and learn to read a wx forcast.
ltn airport again snowclosed for over 3 hrs thismorning. snow was forcast for last 12hrs, yet snow clearance equipment not even put on standby. and even then clearance not even attempted till well after last flakes had fallen.
whats the betting that this was the only airport in the uk "again" that was snow closed for such a period, or at all.

The Guvnor
21st Mar 2001, 22:10
Perhaps if Stelios the Bubble actually coughed up the going rate for his pax charges then the airport might be able to afford to keep the airfield clear ...

Alternatively, with his usual flair for coercing pax involvement and assistance when the infrastructure breaks down, perhaps he should get them to turn up with wellies, bobble hats and shovels when snow threatens LTN! :) :) :)

22nd Mar 2001, 03:42
Not just LTN this time BBoy1, EMA was SNOCLO until 1100.

Doctor Cruces
22nd Mar 2001, 03:59
No snow clearing stuff on standby probably has more to do with Barclays owning the place and wanting to make more profits by not paying people to be on standby. Cynical?? Me??

Doc C

alpha charlie
22nd Mar 2001, 04:14
If and when you get your airline running, perhaps you'll understand the cost implications and just what it means to have your operation disrupted, easyJet is rightly angry at yet another lengthly LTN closure for such a minimal snowfall.

And I have no doubt you'll be looking for the best commercial deal from your base airport as you can get.

22nd Mar 2001, 04:49
Since when did Stelios own LTN airport?

Even the managers at LTN can read a weather forecast... !!!!
They really do need to think ahead... a little bit of brain power and common sense does not cost any money...!!!!!

22nd Mar 2001, 05:21
No, but the machinery, manpower etc certainly do....you pay peanuts.....

22nd Mar 2001, 05:26

Cmdr Data
22nd Mar 2001, 06:37
Vauxhall plant closing! may as well close the airport too if they can`t get their act together. Typical British complacency.

22nd Mar 2001, 08:29
Statement by Luton Airport after I asked them about the continued closures:

"The airport has sole responsibility for ensuring that the runway is
safe to use and the safety of passengers and air crews is always our
top priority and we are unable to compromise on this position."

"...I have to indicate that sadly it is not safe for us to allow any kind of Aircraft
movement in these conditions. We require that all appropriate Apron areas, Taxiways and of course the Runway itself to be cleared and meet a minimum level of grip (which is tested by special equipment - called, not surprisingly, a "Grip Tester").

I cannot of course speak for happens at other Airports and would be unwilling to comment on their approach to these issues..."

Is it really the only airport that cleares everything before reopening rather then just clearing teh runway (ABZ last week cleared far more snow and cleared runway constantly to try and minimize delays and impact on pax and crew)?

22nd Mar 2001, 11:44
Further to the above, I've just heard that EZ have asked for 700,000 pounds of compensation from LTN.
Can anyone confirm this? If it's true, what are their chances??

LTN man
22nd Mar 2001, 12:19
easyJet moan about cancellations due to snow but then they cancel more flights because of fog due to their decision to buy aircraft that are only CAT3a rated. Not a clever move at foggy LTN - If they are so interested in running aircraft in bad weather then maybe they should have bought some airbuses.

Also Barclays have no connection with Luton as the lease has been taken over by TBI.

22nd Mar 2001, 19:55
Griptester readings ?
Try asking for a braking action at Luton after the runway is 'cleared'.
They won't give them coz they say they are unreliable. You have to wait for some brave soul to land and get a PIREP.
More spin jibberish........

Honest Frank
22nd Mar 2001, 19:56
I was one of the unlucky ones stuck in Aberdeen(one of many other airports)with the flight cancelled because of snow in Luton??????????
Aberdeen has had loadsasnow over the past few weeks and they do really well in keeping the airport open,(well done) but Luton well-you should be totally ashamed of yourselves(and being a Lutonian myself I am truly disgusted).
And what did LTN get 1/2 inch of slush.

SORT IT OUT???????????????????????

fire wall
22nd Mar 2001, 22:49
LTN man...you show your lack of experience in a glowing manner.....a tire is a tire whether it be on the end of an Airbus or a Boeing bogey...grow a brain and look to the airport authorities for a vent to your juvinille anger...I am glad you are not sitting beside me at this critical point in time when I need a crew member with me rather than to score cheap points on the internet after our arrival...again...learn to fly the a/c before you decide to pass yourself as an authority.....dick!

22nd Mar 2001, 23:24
Bit harsh fire wall, unless you and LTN man have some hidden agenda we don't know about. It seemed to me he was just pointing out that a Cat 3B equipped aircraft would be more suited to LTN (with it's propensity to fog out)than a Cat 3A, then you could accept 75m RVR and 0 DH. Don't understand where tyres come in to the equation. Oh, and I hope you're not this aggressive when you're flying.

23rd Mar 2001, 00:00
I too was disrupted by the once again Snoclo of LTN, to reply to some of the above maybe Ezy will consider paying more for the use LTN when they get their act together (ltn that is) and provide a decent service.
Imagine if places such as AMS, CHI and other major airports closed for lengthy periods because a few flakes of snow have dropped...

com sport
23rd Mar 2001, 02:06
I'd stick to pax services if I were you mate. I've been through Luton for the past 10 years or so. They have never had sufficient equipment to sno clear quickly, with the amount of traffic coming through there nowadays, it might be prudent to re-equip I would think instead of using the clapped out rubbish they currently have. And whatever happened to those nice baggage handlers who used to shovel the snow, all re-deployed or now working for other companies so LTN does'nt have the manpower to do the job. Clearing the runway is fine, but what about the taxiways stands and pax footpaths?. Lets see you try and blame that on easy ryan bal monarch.

Luton Airfield operations is currently a joke, nice bloke running it but he does'nt have the experience. Talk to the tower guys/girls and you get a far more realistic estimate for opening, and they don't even work for the airport company, they were sub-contracted to save money, sound familiar?.

LTN man
23rd Mar 2001, 02:10
Fire wall…The difference with a tire on the end of an Airbus is that it can make contact with Luton’s runway with an RVR of 75m while easyJet’s shiny new Boeings sit in the hold waiting for 200m. Maybe Luton Airport should take a leaf out of easyJet’s book and slag off the airline for delaying its passengers when they end up at EMA because easyJet can’t cope with a bit of fog.

[This message has been edited by LTN man (edited 22 March 2001).]

alpha charlie
23rd Mar 2001, 03:32
Ltn Man
Sorry, but hardly a reasonable comparision. EZY's fleet of aircraft are equipped to CAT3a as a balance between operational requirements and the considerably extra cost of 3b, this balance keeps our fares low but provides good reliability when we do get fog be it at LTN or anywhere else.

Snow clearance on the otherhand is a basic requirement of any airport operator. Airlines and passengers can accept an airport closure while the operational areas are cleared of snow, that is not the issue. It the 'time' it takes to get the airport operational again, that is the problem. Although it hardly needs said, no one is asking safety to be compromised

For those of us who have worked around this planet at many airfields, in the UK and abroad, we know from our expereince of clearance times vs snow fall amount that LTN haven't got it together in this regard. I have no doubt the lads on the plows are willing, its the either clearance techniques or lack of resource in the right place that seems to be the problem.

I'd be delighted if someone from LLA could prove me wrong.

com sport
23rd Mar 2001, 04:17
Just in case you'd forgotten Ryanair also cancelled flights in the fog and operated them from Stansted, Monarch and Brittania also had delays.

Ufortunately it's only easyjet who kick up a fuss, if the other airlines did it as well maybe Luton Airport might manage to run an airport!. It was very interesting the other week listening to aircraft in the hold, when they had a hole in the runway at the mid point, and asked atc to ask pilots to miss a 9 inch hole, 2 feet off the centreline, whilst travelling in the region of 100kts! (sort of sticks in your mind). Cor really professional! They also were unable to give accurate runway opening times then as well!, is there a pattern here do you think?. Can anyone confirm if the runway made of cheese occured the day after as well?

LTN man
23rd Mar 2001, 11:26
Lets make one thing clear I am no defender of Luton’s dismal snow clearance operation. Their equipment is old and unreliable and they don't have enough of it. According to easyjet’s web site easyJet is blaming the closure on Barclays - for the under-investment in airport services. This comes from an airline that has resisted any increase in fees and has only paid 1-50 to the airport for each passenger which the airport then hands over to the council in concession fees. The airport operating company will make a loss this year in part due to the unrealistic fees easyjet has been paying but as the airport now charges easyjet a more realistic figure and as the money starts to come in then the airport will have no excuses for next winter. Also the airport is now operated by TBI an established airport operator so lets hope they spend their income wisely.

23rd Mar 2001, 14:47
Boils down again to th question wht Luton will not open a runway for use unless taxiways and aprons are clear. I suggest they contact Aberdeen and other airport where the knowhow is situated and ask them why oh why they can operate with only the runway clear of contamination. Maybe this will help reopening LTN in 25% of the time it takes them now.

28th Mar 2001, 18:31
Luton Airport does not deserve the title international.It has more interest in anne summers shops than the general day to day running of an international airport.The airport is one big cul de sac .You can be stuck for 15 mins to get to the gate from b2.
Plus the taxi ways do not go to the ends of the runway which is bloody dangerous.

28th Mar 2001, 19:24

Anti Skid On
29th Mar 2001, 17:56
Attn Stelio's et. al. - wanna buy a snow blower, one careful owner, etc....

There's one for sale in Winnipeg http://www.airporthub.com/articles/Details.asp?ID=662