Security - US No Fly list

[Two's in]

The CBS 60 Minutes Documentary show is about to "reveal" this Sunday that 15 of the 19 dead September 11 hijackers are still on the U.S. no-fly list, Saddam Hussein is on the list too, along with the President of Bolivia. For some odd reason and despite the fact they were under surveillance for more than a year the 11 British suspects in the Airliner liquid explosives plot were not on it.

It also reveals that many "ordinary " names are on the list such as Gary Smith, John Williams, and Robert Johnson. Anyone unfortunate enough to have these names is stopped each time they fly and are subjected to increased scrutiny up to and including detention and strip searches.

[weasil]

A buddy of mine who is a FO at my old airline was denied a deadhead once because the gate agent said his name was on the "do not fly" list. Granted this was coming out of DCA so she was doing the conservative thing but he was more than a little PO'd...

I have to wonder if the timing of this news story on 60 minutes is in anyway related to the upcoming midterm elections.

[att]

I am on a US list, beleive me it is not fun:*
I have actually stopped going to the US, too much of a PITA.

[bpmsmith]

I am on a US list, beleive me it is not fun:*
I have actually stopped going to the US, too much of a PITA.

Att, If you are on the list, I'm not surprised that you don't go to the US.

If on the other hand, someone else with the same name as you is on the list, then that's a right royal PITA!

[onetrack]

This is typical Govt Dept database gathering, with inadequate controls and cross-checking.
If you think that's bad .. try catching a flight to the U.S., without arranging forward accommodation.

My nephew and his wife went to the U.S. and Canada, on a combined business/vacation trip, and decided to arrange accomodation once there .. on a, see-it-like-it-stay-there, basis .. rather than pre-booking a set schedule of accommodation.

U.S. Customs people hauled them aside at entry, and grilled them at length, virtually incarcerating them for hours and hours .. as this "no-forward-booking for accommodation", has been identified by Homeland Security as a highly likely terrorism indicator.

They had to produce every item of ID they could muster .. explain what they were doing in the U.S. .. and why .. countless times .. and await cross-checks from Australian authorities, before they were released, and wished 'happy vacation'! ..

They look nothing like Muslims or Middle Easterners .. didn't come from a region noted for exporting terrorists .. weren't carrying anything even remotely suspicious, by way of materials .. and were well dressed. Nothing like being eternally suspicious, I guess .. :suspect:

[Middle Seat]

The NoFly list was an attempt to get a lot of lists into one place. It is apparent that agencies keeping separate lists didn't talk much.

[Voeni]

The president of Bolivia? I'm sure he's going to be the next hijacker... :D

[PaperTiger]

.. as this "no-forward-booking for accommodation", has been identified by Homeland Security as a highly likely terrorism indicator.Just another facet of the Kafka-esque farce which passes for security in the US. All they want is an address on the form - they do not check it. If you don't have accomodation, just make up an address, doesn't even have to be real. 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC might ring an alarm bell though. Then again....

[PaperTiger]

I have to wonder if the timing of this news story on 60 minutes is in anyway related to the upcoming midterm elections.For the next month everything in the US will be related to the upcoming midterm elections.

[strake]

The immigration reception in the US is laughable. Goons with guns.

I have to travel there on average three times a month. I have dual citizenship (not USA) but use the same photo in both passports which I use more or less equally. Not once has this been noticed or queried despite having been photoed about thirty times since the new requirements came in.

I've also started to make up my job when asked. Last time I was a salesman for Universal Exports....time before I was in Federal Security....

[striparella]

Just another facet of the Kafka-esque farce which passes for security in the US. All they want is an address on the form - they do not check it. If you don't have accomodation, just make up an address, doesn't even have to be real. 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC might ring an alarm bell though. Then again....


Yeah you're right about that! No-one actually checks - it's a waste of time.

Another crap thing for innocents on the no fly list at my airline is that it wont let you use the on line check in facility or the machines where you do it yourself - meaning already annoyed passengers joining a long queue!

[Pax Vobiscum]

15 years ago, coming back from Fiji, we needed to transfer at LAX. There are no transfer facilities at LAX, you have to go through immigration and back out again. Of course, there was no sensible way of filling in the 'accommodation' information on the immigration form. Immigration staff were pleasant, but clearly baffled as to why someone would travel to the USA and then wish to leave immediately!

My sister and her family did the same thing earlier this year - nothing has changed ...

[Newforest]

The immigration reception in the US is laughable.
I have to travel there on average three times a month. I have dual citizenship (not USA) but use the same photo in both passports which I use more or less equally. Not once has this been noticed or queried

Missing the point here, you have different faces you could use for either passport?

[strake]

Missing the point here, you have different faces you could use for either passport?

Now we are all photographed at the immigration desk, I presumed that the photo's (which have special recognition charateristics) are saved and crossreferenced with passport/visa.

If the same photo is shown against a different passport/visa I would have thought it might be mentioned...

[Globaliser]

Immigration staff were pleasant, but clearly baffled as to why someone would travel to the USA and then wish to leave immediately!The philosophy that seems to underlie the whole failure of the US to provide decent international-international direct airside transit facilities. After all, you've reached the land of milk and honey - just why would you want to go to any other place on earth? :rolleyes: :* Now we are all photographed at the immigration desk, I presumed that the photo's (which have special recognition charateristics) are saved and crossreferenced with passport/visa.
If the same photo is shown against a different passport/visa I would have thought it might be mentioned...But if you're entitled to travel to the US on either of your two different passports, then so what? It wouldn't be a concern of the US' that you might be using one legitimate passport rather than another. In fact, if they are able to match your actual up-to-date photo to stored passport photos, then you're probably doing them a favour by providing a positive cross-match between the passports so that they know for sure that it's the same person using both passports.

[Flame]

I am also on the dreaded "no fly list"...which means that I am unable to use the online check in facility in the US, and EVERY time, I check in for a flight, the agent goes away with my passport and I am delayed even further while she has to "check something out"...all this after they have announced that there is a small problem which needs to be checked out which everyone else in the line can hear

Bearing in mind, that this no-fly list is compiled by the same government that issued a visa to one of the 9-11 morons AFTER the tragic events of that terrible day...is it no wonder that a lot of genuine people are p!!!!"d off.:ugh:

I travel to the US approx 4/5 times a year and what I cannot understand, is that after approx 20 visits to the United states and each time my details are checked against their database...no one seems able to verify that I am a different person to whom the they are hoping to stop flying, as each time after I am delayed I am then allowed travel:ugh:

[crisscar]

<b>Flame</b>, the database is extremely vague, and data is a one-way affair. Once your name is in there there is no reasonable way to edit or correct any of the information. Since it uses soundex if your name is even vaguely similar to what's already on file they put you through the ringer.

[PaperTiger]

<b>Flame</b>, the database is extremely vague, and data is a one-way affair. Once your name is in there there is no reasonable way to edit or correct any of the information. Since it uses soundex if your name is even vaguely similar to what's already on file they put you through the ringer.True, although according to a recent 60 Minutes segment the actual list includes the suspect's date of birth in most cases. For some inexplicable reason that particular piece of data is ignored when pulling a passenger for the extra scrutiny.

[Crepello]

Strake, it's a pretty simple concept: You present yourself at Immigration, hand over your credentials and, provided all pass muster, in you come. Note that having 'fun' with your job title may constitute lying to a CBP officer, so is not especially smart.

[Marsh Hawk]

What's the point of having the list at all when there are dead people on it? It's obviously horridly inaccurate and should be tossed out. Re-done carefully if at all. Your tax dollars at "work" folks. :bored:

[Bushfiva]

I used to be signed up with the Portpass scheme: I could go through immigration at LAX using the aircrew lane (because the automatic Portpass machine never worked). Registration consisted of a hand scan, an ID card and $25, if I remember correctly. It's a shame people having names similar to those on no-fly lists aren't offered the option of perhaps one grilling followed by the issuance of a suitably-sophisticated ID card. I'd even pay a few bucks for that.