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GrahamK
7th Oct 2006, 17:59
Well done to Walter and the troops! A fantastic result against probably the best team in the World. :ok:
Unfortunately, will have to wait until tomorrow before celebrating properly :E

And also well done to England for their 0-0 home draw with the mighty Macedonia :E

Megaton
7th Oct 2006, 18:18
I almost feel brave enough to come out of the Scottish football closest for the first time since the Holland game in 1978!

Beware of false football dawns, however :\ :\ :\

Richard Taylor
7th Oct 2006, 19:05
Were you watching Berti Vogts???? :ok:

Say again s l o w l y
7th Oct 2006, 19:43
Fantastic!! I wish I wasn't flying tomorrow so I could get to George Sq. tonight and join in with the fun!

The_Banking_Scot
7th Oct 2006, 20:10
Hi,

A fantastic result!!!:ok: :ok:

Well done!!

Regards

TBS

Gouabafla
7th Oct 2006, 20:17
There is a chauvinistic side of me that wanted both sides to lose this one, but then as a true Englishman, I favour the underdog.

Well done Scotland.

It is good to see this revival, long may it continue.



The England came was among the most boring I've ever started watching. I certainly didn't stay watching till the end.

SXB
7th Oct 2006, 20:18
Well done to the Scots, looks like WS is making real progress.

Sounds like the French didn't really fancy a chilly October evening in Scotland....

colmac747
7th Oct 2006, 20:32
God. France were shit:E


Voice is still hoarse:ok:

Suppers Ready
7th Oct 2006, 20:51
Heading off to George Sq now...........I may be gone a while.
YES YES YES YES YES YES

rab-k
7th Oct 2006, 20:57
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sport/sport-smiley-019.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/%5Bimg%5Dhttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sport/sport-smiley-019.gif%5B/img%5D)Ya Beautaaaaaayyyyyyyy!:D

http://www.dunorinhousehotel-skye.com/flag.gifhttp://www.pprune.org/forums/%5Bimg%5Dhttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sport/sport-smiley-019.gif%5B/img%5D

CarltonBrowne the FO
7th Oct 2006, 21:52
Woohoo!
(To get the post over 10 words, I shall celebrate in the traditional second officer's way...)

Tempsford
7th Oct 2006, 22:29
Well done the Jocks..great result. Even after this great day for Scottish sport some of our Jockenese cousins still insist on mentioning Englands result..WHY? I note that the results of the other British Isles teams seem to have been omitted from GKirks euphoria. Still..Mighty Macedonia..nearly as good as Fantastic Faeroes...

Temps

Duckbutt
7th Oct 2006, 22:38
Impressive stuff, well done the Scots! Few more results like that and you just might get to earn our respect.

rab-k
8th Oct 2006, 07:35
you just might get to earn our respect.

All I can say to that is, errrmmm, 'likewise'.:hmm:

Duckbutt
8th Oct 2006, 11:06
All I can say to that is, errrmmm, 'likewise'.:hmm:

I've often wondered just what we have to do to achieve that seeing as winning World Cups at football and rugby didn't seem to be enough.

colmac747
8th Oct 2006, 11:09
How's about stop bleating on about 1966 and all that at every single opportunity for starters?:hmm:

GrahamK
8th Oct 2006, 11:22
Well done the Jocks..great result. Even after this great day for Scottish sport some of our Jockenese cousins still insist on mentioning Englands result..WHY? I note that the results of the other British Isles teams seem to have been omitted from GKirks euphoria. Still..Mighty Macedonia..nearly as good as Fantastic Faeroes...
Temps
Didn't really want to pour more hurt onto the Welsh and Irish after their gubbings.
Didn't see the Northern Ireland score though.

Duckbutt
8th Oct 2006, 11:25
Agreed that our World Cup football success was way in the past at 40 years ago and we ain't won nothin since. My point is that AT THE TIME it didn't get us respect from you lot (remember that fine footballer Denis Law whinging at the time that on that day he played golf as he couldn't be arsed to watch the World Cup final, had a bad round which was "made even worse when he found out that the English had won").

So my question remains jsut what do we have to do to get the respect of you parochially blinkered lot?

colmac747
8th Oct 2006, 11:28
So my question remains jsut what do we have to do to get the respect of you parochially blinkered lot?

Erm....look above:hmm: :rolleyes:

Duckbutt
8th Oct 2006, 11:34
Indulge me, answer the question.

rab-k
8th Oct 2006, 12:02
Tell you what 'Butt-head' - you lose the 'Superiority Complex' with associated chip on shoulder, and we'll lose the 'Inferiority Complex' with associated chip on shoulder, and we'll all get along much better as neighbours!

PS Remind me what the score was last time we met at Wembley? Respect? Jeesh...:ugh:

Duckbutt
8th Oct 2006, 12:39
Ah the voice of reasoned argument! Scotland won the match at Wembley fair and square - respect for that. And respect for the fans who unlike previous occasions did not trash the place afterwards.

Whats all this stuff about inferiority/superiority complexes? We're both just an ordinary bunch of guys who happen to live in different parts of the same island thats all. Our ancesters probably came from all parts of Europe and Scandinavia (mine almost certainly came from Flanders in the 13th C). The only reason I do not particularly respect some of you is because every time you win a football or rugby match you come on here waiving flags and shouting about how good you are. Yet if England win something it just seems to reinforce resentment of us. Remember the snide comments on Jet Blast just before the rugby WC final? No good luck messages there AFAIK.

So how about a sensible answer to a straight question then, just what can those of us living south of Gretna do to gain your respect?

colmac747
8th Oct 2006, 13:27
How about posing the question the other way about.

Why is it those of us living north of Gretna have such minimal respect for you lot?

Regarding flag waving. Hell's bells, the entire population of Engerlund had them stuck to cars, windows, street lights during the ill-fated(:p ) WC campaign, so i'm sure Rab-K is entitled to post a little saltire after yesterday's heroic performance.

And keeping the topic football related (coz that's what this thread is about), before and during the WC, your medja down there had Engerlund winning the cup, blatantly disregarding (as usual) every other nation. Add that to the mix of other equally annoying things and a pattern soon emerges.

rab-k
8th Oct 2006, 13:32
Putting it as straightforward as one can without wishing to descend into a Scots vs Angles 'hamster wheel', respect is best given and received on a mutual and basis, i.e. if you give it, you get it.:)

Sadly that is not often the case in these Isles and the animosity that is often found in place of respect can be seen on all sides.

For example, the 'Anyone But England' camp's knee-jerk Anglophobia can be seen as a direct response to the perceived insistence by some elements South of Gretna that allegiance to England, as the senior and dominant partner in the UK, should be given automatically and without question. They are simply two sides of the same coin.

I suspect that mutual respect 'twixt our countries will only be achieved when both go their separate ways, a bit like siblings who never really got on as kids, but who come to relish each others company as adults.

Duff beer
8th Oct 2006, 14:02
Duckbutt youre wasting your time pal.

Leave em be!

colmac747
8th Oct 2006, 14:31
http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=english+footballing+success&btnG=Search
:E

Duckbutt
8th Oct 2006, 14:34
Nice one Colmac! Come on then, show us yer medals........

Fascinating pair of replies, and thank you both for taking the trouble to respond this time in a reasoned manner (ignoring Colmac's last post).

OK reasonable point about the flags as gestures of support I suppose. If we had have won instead of failing miserably I would have hoped that no Englishmen would have come on here like Rab did waiving the flag and shouting how great we are. I certainly don’t recall it happening after our rugby success (nor the messages of congratulations from Scotland). It would seem that you reinforce your prejudices by taking the media comments as being typical of the general attitude of the English whereas probably the majority of people down here were somewhat embarrassed by and would dissociate themselves from some of the media’s (usually the red top comics) “winning the cup sentiments” before a ball was kicked. The same applies when they print their xenophobic rubbish before every England v Germany match. I trust the Scots have learned that lesson and would never again hold a victory parade as did Ally Macleod’s team before the 1978 tournament (and no laughing smilies posted here either Colmac).

Rab, you summarise it well in your expression 'Anyone But England' knee-jerk Anglophobia which in my, I accept naivety, I personally find totally inexplicable in the 21st C, as I do for example the sectarianism of the Old Firm matches. I repeat, we are just a bunch of guys who are no different from each other but happen to live in different parts of the island so why the disrespect? Move on from the battles of the past and no talk of separatism – it’s just the one small island and in this day of mass transport and advanced communications the World is moving on from the concept of small nation states.

Richard Taylor
8th Oct 2006, 15:37
Good to see one of Scotland's greatest ever footballers mentioned on these pages. :ok:

I always thought Mr Law's comments were tongue-in-cheek...a bit. After all, whilst he may have hated the Auld Enemy when he played against them, he did after all spend most of his playing career in England, & still lives there.

(OK, I admit to a level of bias given where Denis came from...:O )

Think all us Scots know the midweek match vs Ukraine will be every bit as tough.

rab-k
8th Oct 2006, 15:59
I repeat, we are just a bunch of guys who are no different from each other but happen to live in different parts of the island so why the disrespect?

Now there is where you and I part company. We are different, and vive la difference I say as that is what makes us who we are. Not all people on these isles identify first and foremost with the concept of the Kingdom of Great Britain nor the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland. Like it or not, it's a fact. Should you examine our countries and their peoples closely you'll find we probably have as much in terms of differences as we do in commonalities.

Sure we've shared a monarch for 400 years and a parliament for 300. Fought wars together as allies and built a once great empire from which we all benefited. But the project to turn the Scots into the North British and the English into the South British was tried and funnily enough failed, on both sides of the border. Our union has been more political and economic in nature rather than in social and cultural terms. Indeed, it is the social and cultural aspects in which we differ most. However, the creation of a Scottish Parliament may see those differences creeping increasingly into the world of politics and economics as time goes by.

You mention the "concept of small nation states", which I guess you would class as including Slovakia, Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Lithuania, Latvia, Slovenia, Estonia, Cyprus, Luxembourg, Malta, all of whom have populations like Scotland's of less than 5˝ million and all fully fledged members of the EU, UN and in some cases NATO in their own right. Less worthy peoples/places than the big boys like England? Please... yes they are part of larger organisations but that in no way means that they then assimilate the larger members of aforesaid organisations to the extend their identity vanishes into thin air and they all turn into, in this case, Europeans with nothing of their former selves remaining.


Come for a visit sometime, you'll see the same applies here.

maxburner
8th Oct 2006, 16:55
You'll never win the argument with a Scot over their inferiority complex. It's inbred. Allow them to enjoy their subsidised 'lifestyle' while it lasts. The rot in the union has started, the talking shop has opened in the world's ugliest building next to Hollyrood House and in my view they'll be a separate country before too long. Then the fun will start as they go bankrupt in months.

As for the soccer, Scotland outplayed France and deserve full credit for the victory. Meanwhile England played woefully against Macedonia and got the result they deserved. Taking the long view, though, there's no comparison between the relative achievements of the two teams.

ORAC
8th Oct 2006, 17:05
County Pride.... (http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7983543) :cool:

Richard Taylor
8th Oct 2006, 17:16
Maxbunny:

3 words... NORTH SEA OIL.

The proceeds of which has been bailing out successive Chancellors over the years daan sarf.

If anything therefore, WE'RE subsidising YOU LOT! :ugh:

(Besides you NEED us running the place, you can't seem to run it yourselves ;) )

colmac747
8th Oct 2006, 17:16
Scotland outplayed France

No they didn't...they were shit. First half was like watching England in disguise. Boring, predictable et al. Second half saw a bit more life, but if the truth be told, France really should've buried us after the first 20 mins.

Now that's the difference. England are generally surly in defeat and surly in victory. Scotland at least have the good grace to recognise, come win, draw or lose to applaud an opposing team. Try it sometime - you might even make friends the world over, not just the UK:E :ouch:

maxburner
8th Oct 2006, 17:22
Dickbunny,

Last time I looked north sea oil was from nowhere near Scotland.

colmac747
8th Oct 2006, 17:26
I suggest you look again then (http://www.snp.org/independence/yourquestions/scotlandsoilwealth/scotklandsoil)

Also, this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=247108) might apply too :E

maxburner
8th Oct 2006, 17:46
Colmac,

Do I detect just a hint of a chip on the shoulder, or even an inferiority complex??

Now just run along and swat midges.

Just for the record, I'm a huge supporter of independence for Scotland. The sooner the better.

ORAC
8th Oct 2006, 17:48
Scotland on Sunday (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/business.cfm?id=392006), January (Well known English rag.) : ...."Would an independent Scotland have done better with North Sea oil? A slower rate of depletion could well have helped create a huge Norway-style fund. But there are big challenges to this counter-factual, even assuming the 80% apportionment was legally upheld. First, would the oil companies have gone along with slower extraction? After all, they had sunk enormous capital into North Sea exploration and development, much of it borrowed in expectation of near-term payback.

Second, would the North Sea oil revenue (now £4.3bn) under this alternative model now be yielding more than the £11.3bn subsidy currently paid to Scotland?"

Anyway, what's that got to do with Scottish football. Unless you were expecting there would have been an Angus MacBramovitch to bring in a few more good players..... :}

maxburner
8th Oct 2006, 17:59
ORAC,

I see we are from the same place! I'll look out for you.

Good point, by the way, and one that many a MSP will ignore in their arguments.

Cheerio
8th Oct 2006, 17:59
You'll never win the argument with a Scot over their inferiority complex. It's inbred.

I might be inbred, but I'm not inferior! ;)

Richard Taylor
8th Oct 2006, 18:00
Tsk, tsk Maxibunny who's touchy now? :hmm:

So most of the N.Sea oil is NOT off the coast of Scotland?

Funny, I must be imagining all those helicopters I see every day then. And those AREN'T oil company buildings I see either.

Face it, the SNP revealed that successive UK Govts were SH!T-SCARED that Scots would find out the true value of the stuff in the 70s, so concealed the info. Terrified no doubt that they would miss out on their share.

Say again s l o w l y
8th Oct 2006, 18:12
For crying out loud.....
Put a cork in it will you. Scots V English is so pathetic it's untrue.
I'm from London, but live north of the border now and I can't see any real differences between anything of importance.
This stuff is just xenophobia and quite frankly a load of childish b*llocks.

This is a thread to celebrate an astonishing and unexpected win. Just because England were thoroughly average doesn't mean that those annoyed by that dire performance should try and belittle the Scottish team's achievement.

Well done, it wasn't the best game I've ever seen, but the result matters more.

colmac747
8th Oct 2006, 18:15
Don't be so bloody serious:8 :suspect:

Scots V English is so pathetic it's untrue.

Sure beats the hamster wheel of West v Muslim for a change:hmm: ;)

Richard Taylor
8th Oct 2006, 18:24
And it's more FUN...:E

Where were we? Ah yes:

SCOTLAND 1 FRANCE 0 :ok:

colmac747
8th Oct 2006, 18:29
Exactly..where's Grandpa when you need him? Or airship? Both stalwards of all things French.

B Fraser
8th Oct 2006, 18:55
And it's more FUN...:E

Where were we? Ah yes:

SCOTLAND 1 FRANCE 0 :ok:


The only game that matters is rugby, football is for poofters. What was the last score against The Auld Alliance ????? 20-16 if I recall. :ok:


And can anyone match the teams to the following score in the same tournament ......... 18-12 :D