What's going to replace Air NZ's 733's?

[purplemonkydishwashr]

Any opinions as to what may be on the drawing board for ANZ's replacement/renewal of the 733's come 2009?
The A320 seems a bit big for most sectors.

[Cloud Cutter]

I would imagine 737-700s.

Perhaps Q400s:ouch:

[ebt]

What about EMB-195s? I'm sure they would complement the A320s well, probably have better economics than the A318, even with the single cockpit. Use the E-jet on less dense services and put the A320 on for peak periods. Much of course will depend on what savings ANZ can get out of the Freedom Air subsidiary which will probably take over the operations on NZ domestic services.

[flap35]

Airbus A319's of course.:ok:

Therefore only three fleet types in the airline, Airbus 320/319, Boeing 787 and 777.

Three fleet types, three groups of Tech Crew, two groups of Cabin Crew.

Simple.

[c100driver]

:=

B733 is here to 2012 at least, no replacement plans yet.

Remember Air NZ has 6 of the last 20 off the production line and are 1999/2000 build aircraft, so the are not that old.

[BrianCat]

Any thing is possible - the ultimate answer will be in the economics.

Only one thing is certain: No matter what the outcome there are sure to be some unhappy pilots somewhere. :)

[Taildragger67]

Airbus A319's of course.:ok:
Therefore only three fleet types in the airline, Airbus 320/319, Boeing 787 and 777.
Three fleet types, three groups of Tech Crew, two groups of Cabin Crew.
Simple.

Won't 777/787 be CCQ so two groups of techies (S/H 'bus, L/H Boeing)?

I had thought the 777/787 cockpit commonality/CCQ idea was one of the selling points for 777/787 as a package.

[Charlie Murdoch]

Low cost A320's I'd say, now I wonder where they'd find them? :D
Hint-Free me ! Let's have a wee look over the Tasman.....

[mattyj]

AirNZ only got the A320s because they couldn't back out of a deal previously signed by Ansett.

AirNZ have always been a loyal Boeing customer.

Having said that..the Skodas are going good now since they got over initial teething troubles. Same engines as 73 NGs too.

whoops..cfm..vs v2500..sorry research error

[flap35]

Not same engines as NG's.

[Pimp Daddy]

AirNZ only got the A320s because they couldn't back out of a deal previously signed by Ansett.

Find that hard to believe when they pretty efficiantly divested themselves of all other Ansett liabilities.

I always thought the Deathstar had better economics over the 3-4 hours ssectors that Air NZ bought them for.

[BrianCat]

AirNZ only got the A320s because they couldn't back out of a deal previously signed by Ansett.
AirNZ have always been a loyal Boeing customer.
Same engines as 73 NGs too.
0/3 :D At least this is only a rumour network, eh!

[Split Flap]

733 replacement is not even tabled to be examined untill 2010, know that saying don't f**k with what works? Yeah well...
Highly unlikely that airbus is an option.
Q400? Stop smoking that stuff cuz random drug testing is now in the workplace.
My bet is that the smaller cousin of the 787 is what you will see operating the domestic network come 2012-13
The A320 is not popular on the domestic network as the Cargo cans are to slow to load...

[haughtney1]

My bet is that the smaller cousin of the 787 is what you will see operating the domestic network come 2012-13
The A320 is not popular on the domestic network as the Cargo cans are to slow to load...

Probably a good bet:ok: and if the 787 is as good as its hype suggests (will let you know when I get my grubby hands on one in 2010) then boeing will transfer the technology to a new single aisle 150-180 seat machine, as the 737-900 and ER versions are pushing the limits of what is effectively a 40 year old design.

Back to the present day, I cant see why Air NZ are struggling to load cargo cans....where I work we operate a shedload of 320's/321's and can easily turn them around in 40 minutes...with half the infrastructure Air NZ has at its disposal. I suspect the issue is having years of the same thing (B737) and just not liking a change.

Direct operating costs B733 vs A320-200
The A320 achieves a 7% - 9% saving depending on sector length and utilization.

Having said all of that, everytime you fly the Aerboos, it calls you a retard:p so that cant be good

[distracted cockroach]

NZ domestic turnarounds with the 733s are generally 30 min....less if running behind schedule. Not likely to be able to do that with a can equipped Airbus....BUT Freedom ordered their A320s without cans i.e. all bulk loaded so you aren't necessarily stuck with cans. Isn't the 318 bulk loaded too?
Anyway, agree that the 733s may be around for some time yet.

[Taildragger67]

What might be instructive is if anyone knows how easy and JetBlue get on with their A320 turnarounds. Eg. time, cans or no-cans?

Or Jetstar, for that matter?

[haughtney1]

Easy dont use cans......and I know Easy target a 25min turn..but regularly achieve 20 mins.
Its all about what you want to achieve in schedule vs utilization, the 320 is perfectly capable of 25 min turns, with the correct processes in place:ok:

But your still called a retard

[belowMDA]

From an inside point of view I will add my weight to the 737 replacement version of the 787. and it will be au reviour le bus!

[Cloud Cutter]

Easyjet do get some pretty phenomenal turnaround times out of their 319s, but I don't think you'll see Air NZ adopting the 'board at both ends, everyone for themselves' concept which cuts boarding time at least in half.

I wouldn't be suprised to see baby busses on the domestic run. I guess it will all hinge on how good this 737 replacement will be.

[haughtney1]

As long as boeing get rid of those bloody annoying 737 trim wheels!!

I had a play in a 737-400 sim a couple of weeks back (practising my slow rolls:E ) whilst waiting for our sim to get fixed, and that damned trim wheel was driving me up the wall...Mr Boeing need to fix that first!:ok:

[resboy]

Before the arrival of allocated seating we did 25 min turns with cans at JQ in the 320

[belowMDA]

H1 yep you know all about it if you make the mistake of resting your knee against it during low speed flight when it rotates about twice as fast as at high speeds:} One day I might learn....

Air NZ and the airports they serve domestically are not set up for high speed turn arounds. There is only one gate at AA and a handful of others around the network where you could board/disembark from both ends, and even then you are risking safety by releasing a bunch of lemmings onto a busy ramp environment never designed with that purpose in mind. Also the 320 crews at the moment are not used to achieving 30 mins on a turnaround but that would quickly change were it all they were doing all day.

So anyway, I would be VERY surprised if Air NZ replaced 73s with anything from the 320 family on the domestic runs for anything other than a very short term stop gap.

[alangirvan]

In the days before aerobridges ( 70s and early 80s) NAC/AirNZ did let passengers leave the 737-200 by the front and the rear door at Dunedin. Rear door was then closed and all boarding was through the front.

Ansett/TAA used to board passengers through the ventral stairs of 727s/DC-9s at non-aerobridge airports. Virgin Blue does use the rear door at Australian domestic terminals. Airports in NZ are not more dangerous than Australian airports, are they?

[c100driver]

With the proposed RWY extensions @ Napier & New Pymouth on the cards..that's 2 more routes .. The A320 family is the most cost effective replacement for the B733...unless Air NZ get Micheal O'leary to negotiate the deal for NG's with Boeing.....

The jet has already operated Napier on sched services years ago however the market could not sustain an aircraft that size. New Plymouth has also had the B737 operate but on charter only.

The A320 series will never replace the B733 on domestic, as the ownership/lease cost is the driver not the operating cost (at least until gas reaches $200 a barrel) and with AKL WLG having a flight time of just on 45 minutes and WLG CHC less than 30 minutes, then the aircraft is going to have to be very cheap to lease/own before it becomes cost efficent to operate.

[propaganda]

C100 driver,

I beg to differ on the Napier route I think a jet...would be sustainable and freight being a major player as well ...lets watch this space ;)

[stillalbatross]

Since Air NZ are always the last airline in the 1st world to operate any aging type wouldn't it be easiest to see what will be operated in the near future in West Africa or some other 3rd world poverty ridden area of the planet and use that for you replacement guesses? :ok:

[MELKBQF]

Jetstar have 30 min. turnaround times on their containerised A320s. On a full flight there is usually 5 cans of baggage and 2 cans of cargo. Seems to work pretty well.

[Cloud Cutter]

Airports in NZ are not more dangerous than Australian airports, are they?

Have you seen the state of the ramp at Auckland recently. You would be asking for trouble letting pax loose. I'm amazed there haven't been any serious incidents on the regional gates. :eek:

Had a good example the other day of tranship bag delays caused by A320s operating as replacement on the domestic network. I'm sure if a few things were tweaked in the right direction you could make it work though.