Nationwide interview

[trubru]

Anybody around here had a Nationwide interview lately? If so are they still looking for crew? What is the salary like there nowadays?

It'll be great If we can get some inside info on how things are there with CE, heard they signed a code sharing deal with Delta Airlines....

[Shrike200]

I have a rather unique outsiders perspective on this airline, so here goes.

They pay the least of all the local airlines, I'm not sure exactly what the package is nowdays. Capt. or F/O? They are shockingly short of Captains at the moment. A huge surprise, given the pathetic salaries. Despite this shortage, don't expect them to budge an inch on that front. Apparently they believe these two issues are unrelated. Other airlines routinely pillage them for crew, most recently the new LoCo, as well as the usual shrinkage to Emirates, Cathay et al. Also, you have to enjoy working with complete and utter chaos, and an inability to think more than two seconds into the future. Almost all support staff are also paid dirt, so tend to leave A.S.A.P. In fact, that seems to be a specific H.R. policy there. This means that almost everyone is inexperienced, and since there is almost no training, they only get to learn on the job (ie, they make mistakes). If you can try and avoid the office as much as possible, it may be ok. Oh, and hopefully you don't like knowing what you'll be doing several days in advance, because you won't. The chaotic roster will not only affect you, you'll also be blamed for it and possibly threatened with dismissal if you even think of breathing in the rostering office's direction. So don't ask for any favours there. Of course, they will chop and change your roster at will. It's gone beyond a case of the one hand not knowing what the other is doing, and has become a case of the one finger is oblivious of what the finger next to it is doing. If you are an F/O, Nationwide used to offer a relatively quick path to command, one of it's few advantages. Nowdays, it's unclear whether this is still the case, as apparently the ops manual has been rewritten to specify stratospheric hour requirements. The common feeling is this has been written specifically to deny command to original Nationwide pilots, and allow ex-SAA pilots to enjoy a little bit of flying in their dotage. I have no idea of whether this is valid or not.

On the plus side, the crew are a great bunch in general, and have mostly adopted a hardy, get-the-job-done-as-professionally -as- possible-despite- management -induced-impediments approach. The aircraft, while old, are kept quite well surprisingly enough, and the previously mentioned professionalism of the crew keeps things safe. I believe it is this attitude, and the PR efforts of the cabin crew that keeps Nationwide going, despite the odds, or management's best efforts to sabotage a successful operation. Don't expect to be rewarded for any good performance though. On the contrary, if you do anything even slightly questionable, be prepared for a bollocking. Management hang a banner on the door saying 'WE ARE A STEPPING STONE AIRLINE, AND PROUD OF IT!' H.R. personal apparently have this motto tattooed on their foreheads. Management's business strategy is apparently 'Penny wise, Pound foolish!' Anybody who has been with the company for more than five years is a crusty, hardened veteran. They are few and far between.

It has great potential, but requires a truely massive culture change to be considered a career airline. You have to ask yourself - "Are they going to effect such a massive change, or are they going to continue to blunder blindly on?" It might make the decision easier.

Nonetheless, I fly with them everytime (the crew make it worthwhile), and I wish them the best of luck! It can't be the worst place in the world to work!

[wheels up]

Outsider Shrike????

Or maybe it just feels that way.....

Stemming The Red Tide - in an Abrahams by any chance?

[Shrike200]

That would be 'Abrams'! And now the Leo's, M2's etc in SBPE...But yes...and outsider it pretty much is!

[alpha-b]

Hi there!

Can anyone give me the requirements for nationwide i don't seem to get it

[Shrike200]

For an F/O it used to be 1500 hrs total, ATP Subjects. Not sure what it is now. For a Captain, the ops manual apparently says something ludicrous, like 5500 hours total, 4800 hours on multi-crew, multi engine aircraft above 12500 KILOGRAMS (where that one came from I'm not sure, maybe they meant to type 'pounds'!)

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Maybe they're trying to keep 1900 drivers out while giving us Dak drivers a shot...:E

[dynamicd]

For an F/O it used to be 1500 hrs total, ATP Subjects. Not sure what it is now. For a Captain, the ops manual apparently says something ludicrous, like 5500 hours total, 4800 hours on multi-crew, multi engine aircraft above 12500 KILOGRAMS (where that one came from I'm not sure, maybe they meant to type 'pounds'!)

I have the following questions.

1.1500 hours tt for f/o do instruction hours count or does it have to be multi crew multi turbine.

2.are there any reductions in total time if an F/o has a Type on the 732(JAA) and some hours on type forinstance 500 plus Sa cpl and sa atp subjects.

3.where are the crews based.

4.what is the salary like after tax for f/os,per diems and other benefits if any.

[Shrike200]

I have the following questions.

1.1500 hours tt for f/o do instruction hours count or does it have to be multi crew multi turbine.

2.are there any reductions in total time if an F/o has a Type on the 732(JAA) and some hours on type forinstance 500 plus Sa cpl and sa atp subjects.

3.where are the crews based.

4.what is the salary like after tax for f/os,per diems and other benefits if any.

1. 1500 hrs total is just that - total. Naturally, you may be competing with other guys who will have more than the minimum. Thus, your requirement is actually to beat the competition, and be in the right place at the right time. Normal ops for any company then! You'll need some multi engine time I think, can't remember anything specific about that though. Naturally the more the merrier!

2. Not according to the ops manual I would imagine. Nonetheless, historically they haven't always complied with their own requirements, especially back in the day of the pay-as-you-go rating, where lower time guys got in just because they were willing to pay for the rating.

3. Crews are based in Jhb, Dbn, and Cpt as required. If you want to move, and there's a place available for you, they will (being Nationwide) not pay a cent towards relocation costs. Even if they desperatly want you to go. They'd rather hire a new person who is prepared to go directly there.

4. An F/O (speaking under correction here, I last asked about this a coupe of months ago, but I don't think much has changed!) will clear about 11K-13K per month.

[putt for dough]

4. An F/O (speaking under correction here, I last asked about this a coupe of months ago, but I don't think much has changed!) will clear about 11K-13K per month.

Holy Moly

How the hell can you survive on that?
Any CE f/o care to share the secret? :ouch:

[737_driver]

I just applied to Nationwide for direct entry Capt on the boeing. What kind of time are they looking for, direct entry capt?

Thanks

Just in case u were woundering

6000 T.T
5800 Multi engine/turbine
3000 PIC
1100 Jet B737 Efis
International Experince

[Shrike200]

Yes, CE F/O's are masters of sponging beers off other people - I don't mind paying though, given the above!

737 Driver, you have more than enough to meet what they would want, I can only imagine that they'll embrace you with open arms, barring any show stopping problems. Are you sure you want to do it though? ;) Captains there have no ability to plan their lives at the moment, since with the current shortage, their schedules change on a daily basis. Plus, it's not like the Captains salaries are comparable with other companies either!

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Interesting. Would you be able to get a work permit based on the fact you can live on what they pay where a local person can't, and thus are in possession of a special skill they require, or will you have a problem? Is there a shortage of 737 captains in SA?

[Mark J B]

I agree. Your problem is getting a work permit, not your hours and experience. That is assuming you are Canadian, re your profile.

[Woof etc]

Nationwide Entry Requirements:

Minimum of:

1500 hrs total
ATP Subjects
Twin Time
Turbine time

or:

Your father must be a well known aviation personality.

[Shrike200]

Nationwide Entry Requirements:
Minimum of:
1500 hrs total
ATP Subjects
Twin Time
Turbine time
or:
Your father must be a well known aviation personality.

LOL, let's not start that one again! :) And anyway, I think that was a bit of a one-off case!

And yes, my comment on 'show stopping problems' referred to the potential work permit issue for 737 Driver, given the Canadian location.

The shortage of Captains at Nationwide is an *entirely* self inflicted problem, and I don't think it relates to the rest of the country at all. It's merely a by-product of Nationwide's short-sighted salary policies, as well as the tail end of the whole 'hire ex-SAA guys to help out' plan. Which has arguably caused more problems than it has solved, especially now that many are going over to the low cost, and those that remain decide that a peaceful retirement is better than flying 90+ hours per month with a chaotic and ever-changing schedule. They reap what they sow. I would have though it was a pretty obvious chain of event's, but then again, I'm not a manager!

[dynamicd]

13k is not much but in the end the jet time would be more valuable than piston time.

[737_driver]

Thanks for your reply Shrike200. I did not realize that a work permit in
SA was an issue. I have never flown over your parts of the world and appreciate you sharing your knowledge. If I may ask, How are expats look opon down there. From what I've read on some issue's, some are a bit bitter for not getting a chance at F.O positions. In Canada it's a totally different ball game, with respect to entry level positions. I.e no cadet progams here.. Most hit the jack-pot of getting onto a medium size jet like the B737, or A320 with 4000 to 5000 hrs and as F.O. You low time guy's getting job's on jets with low time i.e under 4500 hrs are very lucky..
I also heard there is a travel warning for some places in SA, Can you shead some light on that issue for me..

Thanks again guy's..

If anything it's nice to learn about Aviation in other parts of the world.

Cheers

[Mark J B]

The work permit is something you will have to get yourself because the companies here will not assist you. If I remember correctly, you will have to prove that there is not a suitably qualified South African for the position you are applying for. That is where the problem lies as there are many qualified citizens here waiting for a break into the airlines. Affirmative action complicates this and narrows the opportunities down quite a bit.

[philby737]

I have a rather unique outsiders perspective on this airline, so here goes.

They pay the least of all the local airlines, I'm not sure exactly what the package is nowdays. Capt. or F/O? They are shockingly short of Captains at the moment. A huge surprise, given the pathetic salaries. Despite this shortage, don't expect them to budge an inch on that front. Apparently they believe these two issues are unrelated. Other airlines routinely pillage them for crew, most recently the new LoCo, as well as the usual shrinkage to Emirates, Cathay et al. Also, you have to enjoy working with complete and utter chaos, and an inability to think more than two seconds into the future. Almost all support staff are also paid dirt, so tend to leave A.S.A.P. In fact, that seems to be a specific H.R. policy there. This means that almost everyone is inexperienced, and since there is almost no training, they only get to learn on the job (ie, they make mistakes). If you can try and avoid the office as much as possible, it may be ok. Oh, and hopefully you don't like knowing what you'll be doing several days in advance, because you won't. The chaotic roster will not only affect you, you'll also be blamed for it and possibly threatened with dismissal if you even think of breathing in the rostering office's direction. So don't ask for any favours there. Of course, they will chop and change your roster at will. It's gone beyond a case of the one hand not knowing what the other is doing, and has become a case of the one finger is oblivious of what the finger next to it is doing. If you are an F/O, Nationwide used to offer a relatively quick path to command, one of it's few advantages. Nowdays, it's unclear whether this is still the case, as apparently the ops manual has been rewritten to specify stratospheric hour requirements. The common feeling is this has been written specifically to deny command to original Nationwide pilots, and allow ex-SAA pilots to enjoy a little bit of flying in their dotage. I have no idea of whether this is valid or not.

On the plus side, the crew are a great bunch in general, and have mostly adopted a hardy, get-the-job-done-as-professionally -as- possible-despite- management -induced-impediments approach. The aircraft, while old, are kept quite well surprisingly enough, and the previously mentioned professionalism of the crew keeps things safe. I believe it is this attitude, and the PR efforts of the cabin crew that keeps Nationwide going, despite the odds, or management's best efforts to sabotage a successful operation. Don't expect to be rewarded for any good performance though. On the contrary, if you do anything even slightly questionable, be prepared for a bollocking. Management hang a banner on the door saying 'WE ARE A STEPPING STONE AIRLINE, AND PROUD OF IT!' H.R. personal apparently have this motto tattooed on their foreheads. Management's business strategy is apparently 'Penny wise, Pound foolish!' Anybody who has been with the company for more than five years is a crusty, hardened veteran. They are few and far between.

It has great potential, but requires a truely massive culture change to be considered a career airline. You have to ask yourself - "Are they going to effect such a massive change, or are they going to continue to blunder blindly on?" It might make the decision easier.

Nonetheless, I fly with them everytime (the crew make it worthwhile), and I wish them the best of luck! It can't be the worst place in the world to work!


Sounds very much like the crowd operating the premesis next door :mad:

[Shrike200]

Thanks for your reply Shrike200. I did not realize that a work permit in
SA was an issue. I have never flown over your parts of the world and appreciate you sharing your knowledge. If I may ask, How are expats look opon down there. From what I've read on some issue's, some are a bit bitter for not getting a chance at F.O positions. In Canada it's a totally different ball game, with respect to entry level positions. I.e no cadet progams here.. Most hit the jack-pot of getting onto a medium size jet like the B737, or A320 with 4000 to 5000 hrs and as F.O. You low time guy's getting job's on jets with low time i.e under 4500 hrs are very lucky..
I also heard there is a travel warning for some places in SA, Can you shead some light on that issue for me..

Thanks again guy's..

If anything it's nice to learn about Aviation in other parts of the world.

Cheers

I know very little about the requirements for a work permit actually, so I unfortunately can't help much with that aspect. The situation here sounds quite similar to what you descibe happens over there actually (outside of SAA of course, and in any case their cadet programs are essentially based on race.) In other words, while the minimum requirements for Nationwide may seem low, the people competing for those posts will have far more than the minimum requirements, and recent hires have had 2500-4500 hours (to the best of my knowledge, I may be wrong there.)

SA can be a dangerous place, hence the travel advisory, but some places here are fine I suppose. You get used to living in a burglar barred house, with alarm systems, townhouse complexes with electric fences, keeping all valuables off the car seat next to you, being aware of dangerous hijack spots etc if you've always been here, since it creeps up slowly on you, but it may be a bit jarring if you've never had to think like that, and worrying about your families safety can be stressful. Like many places in Africa, it's a nice place (geographically), it's the people you have to watch out for!

[Cirrus SR22]

Nationwide Airlines Press Release of 28 Sept 2006:

Over the course of the last year the entire Nationwide Team has worked extremely hard to achieve conformity with IATA Standards and Recommended Practices and as a result had a most successful outcome in the recent IATA Operational Safety Audit. Due to our collective achievements and standing, a number of business opportunities have been concluded, two of which are codeshare agreements with Air France and Delta Airlines, both members of the Skyteam Alliance.

The codeshare with Air France will become effective on the 01 November 2006 and with Delta Airlines in early December.

Our new flying schedule that becomes effective 29 October 2006 has been amended to reflect connectivity to/from all Air France and Delta Airlines services.

Delta commences service between Atlanta (Georgia) ATL and Johannesburg with the first aircraft arrival on 04 December 2006.

In the near future, specific codeshare flight numbers will be reassigned to reflect the number showing both CE and AF or CE and DL codes on these flights and consequently these will be displayed as such in global distributions systems (available for sale).

In the upcoming weeks, formation and procedures will be issued with regard to the following:

* Amended reservation procedures
* Specific airport procedures
* Conditions of carriage
* Onboard announcements
* Brand information
* Airport signage / electronic flight display (showing codes)

In the meantime, at 11h00 today a press release will be made by Delta Airlines announcing the start of the relationship with Nationwide Airlines. The press release is contained below for you to read.

Once again, a big thank you to each and every individual who contributed to the success of our IOSA conformity and ultimately our ability to enter codeshare agreements with world renowned carriers.

Delta Air Lines, Nationwide Airlines Agree to Develop
Codeshare Services within Africa
Customers Will Gain More Destinations and Greater Choice When Flying
between the U.S. and Africa

= = = = = = = =

Delta Airlines Press Release:

JOHANNESBURG, Sept. 28, 2006 -- Delta Air Lines and Nationwide Airlines today announced that they have signed a Memorandum of Understanding to pursue agreements to codeshare, allow members in Delta’s SkyMiles program to accrue and redeem miles for flights on Nationwide, and to work towards other marketing co-operation. The agreement includes developing codeshare services on Nationwide Airlines to and from markets beyond its hub at O.R. Tambo International Airport (previously Johannesburg International Airport).

This growth of Delta’s network will provide customers with a wider array of destinations for travel as well as new mileage-earning opportunities. Subject to government approvals, initially, Delta plans to place its code on Nationwide service between Johannesburg and destinations such as Cape Town and Durban with further growth anticipated. The two carriers plan to have this service in place as early as possible to support Delta’s new service between Atlanta and Johannesburg beginning Dec. 4.

Commenting on the announcement, Glen Hauenstein, Delta’s executive vice president of network planning and revenue management said: “In December Delta will become the only major U.S. airline to operate flights between the United States and Africa with service to Johannesburg and Dakar from the world’s largest airline hub in Atlanta, and with nonstop service to Accra from the world’s financial capital of New York (Dakar and Accra service are subject to government approvals). Our ability to market services on Nationwide Airlines will give customers even greater choices for travel beyond Johannesburg thanks to Nationwide’s extensive service across Southern Africa.”

Delta’s new service between South Africa and the United States is the latest in a series of more than 50 new international routes added or announced by Delta in the last year as part of the largest international expansion in the airline’s history. Delta customers from Africa via Atlanta would have convenient connecting opportunities to more than 140 North American cities.
Nationwide Airlines’ CEO, Vernon Bricknell said: “We are delighted at the prospect of developing a closer relationship with Delta, and believe that this will bring real benefits to our customers and our business. Delta is one of America’s premier airlines and their entrance into our marketplace is exciting news for South African and American customers alike”.

Nationwide and Delta also plan to develop the ability for members of Delta’s SkyMiles programme to earn and redeem miles on flights operated by Nationwide Airlines within Africa.
About Nationwide Airlines.

Nationwide Airlines operated its first flight on the 5th December 1995 and has recently celebrated its 10th year of scheduled passenger services within the Republic of South Africa and Regional Africa. In November 2003, Nationwide Airlines commenced service three times weekly between Johannesburg and London-Gatwick with the Boeing 767-300 aircraft type and intends on extending this service to a daily frequency in the near future. The Company operates an entirely Boeing fleet and is the largest privately owned airline in the Southern Hemisphere. Nationwide Airlines was recently awarded the prestigious status of “Best Domestic Airline” as voted by ASATA and Diners Club International. Nationwide Airlines has grown successfully as a result of exceptional customer service levels both on the ground and in the air and leads the way in South Africa with service enhancement initiatives such as self check-in at airport kiosks and paperless travel.

About Delta

Delta Air Lines (Other OTC: DALRQ) offers customers service to more destinations than any global airline with Delta and Delta Connection carrier service to 292 destinations in 46 countries. With more than 50 new international routes added in the last year, Delta is America’s fastest growing international airline and is the world’s leading carrier between the United States and destinations across Europe, India and Israel with flights to 29 trans-Atlantic destinations. To Latin America and the Caribbean, Delta offers nearly 400 weekly flights to 48 destinations. Delta's marketing alliances also allow customers to earn and redeem SkyMiles on more than 14,000 flights offered by SkyTeam and other partners. Delta is a founding member of SkyTeam, a global airline alliance that provides customers with extensive worldwide destinations, flights and services. Including its SkyTeam and worldwide codeshare partners, Delta offers flights to 461 worldwide destinations in 96 countries. Customers can check in for flights, print boarding passes and check flight status at delta.com.

About the SkyMiles Programme

The award-winning Delta SkyMiles program offers members multiple mileage-earning opportunities when flying Delta, Delta Shuttle®, the Delta Connection® carriers, Delta AirElite® and other SkyTeam® airlines. Additional mileage-building opportunities are offered through more than 100 partners such as participating hotels, car rental companies, telecommunication services, and more. Delta led the airline industry by redeeming 3.3 million Award Tickets in 2005 and more than 9 million Award Tickets over the last three years. Now in its 25th year, the SkyMiles program received a “Lifetime Achievement Award” at the 2006 Freddie Awards in recognition of its many contributions to the airline loyalty industry.