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View Full Version : Oh No! Not another instructing vs charter thread!


The Bunglerat
3rd Oct 2006, 07:18
Having taken a year's hiatus from GA instructing to enjoy a taste of life in the flight levels, I recently offered (in hindsight against my better judgment LOL) to assist on a short-term Chinese cadet contract - in order to help satisfy a company requirement for additional command hours with my new employer.

Let me say once and for all: Any employer out there who overlooks a pilot for a job - just because he comes from an instructing background - is incredibly narrow-minded and ignorant to say the least.

Now I'm not talking about the weekend hack who does nothing but hours and hours of circuits in a C150/ultralight etc, I'm referring to instructors trying to fly multi-engine/IFR with someone who barely speaks English, has no situational awareness to speak of, and who basically has to resort to managing the entire operation himself - or become another statistic.

It has been quite a few years since I shared a cockpit with a Chinese cadet, and whilst I mean no disrespect to the Chinese or any other foreign student group, I'd simply forgotten just how much bloody hard work it is trying to deal with busy ATC, busy traffic patterns, detailed instrument approaches with combined multi-engine asymmetric procedures - whilst simultaneously trying to babysit an inexperienced student through an exercise that is clearly beyond his ability to cope with - and made no easier by the fact that neither ATC or myself can ever fully understand what he is trying to say in turn. Couple this with the fact that all sorties have to run to a strict timetable (just like the airlines) with penalties for late departures and other delays, and it is simply beyond me as to why there are still so many operators out there in aviation land who continue to snub drivers from an instructing background.

When I compare this type of flying with the charter work I did, let's see now... Plan the flight, greet the pax, do some quick number-crunching to adjust for fuel/payload because someone brought an extra suitcase, put them onboard, fly from "A" to "B" - and then sit on my arse for the next 5 hours reading the paper while they bugger off to their appointment. Absolute bliss in comparison!

I'm not discounting the importance of charter ops or the skills required to do it, but it took a break from instructing to help me realise beyond any doubt that the guys who have to do this sort of work really get a raw deal in the Oz aviation industry. There are some really good drivers out there who are being discriminated against - for simply no other reason than they instruct. I just hope that one day attitudes will start to change - and employers will realise that a professional pilot is exactly that - regardless of flying background.

Kampai
3rd Oct 2006, 07:38
Flight levels?

Flight levels?

And you dare to compare that charter to the charter that most people bash instructing with (rightly or wrongly).

Forget the charter V instructing, i prefer the "charter" v "charter @ FL"

Good luck building the multi time champ, it sound like its hard work.

Riding the Goat
3rd Oct 2006, 09:37
I don't really think instructors are getting that hard a deal, look about at the job adds, lots of oppertunities out there for instructors, not many adds for charter pilots. Also compare Grade 1 and 2 salaries, a lot better then a GA charter guy who flies a C210 for 3hrs and sits on the ground for 5 (under a tree or if lucky a dusty old hanger), only getting paid for the flight time.

The Bunglerat
3rd Oct 2006, 10:56
Goatrider, you are quite correct regarding pay and conditions in GA for instructors vs charter drivers - in some cases even RPT. I tried out for a job with EAA last year - and wasn't selected. Not that I lost much sleep over it in the end, as I would have had to take a pay cut from my salary as a Grade-1 instructor at that particular time (not to mention the added insult of coughing up $$$ towards the DHC8 type rating). Then there was the added expense of moving to Sydney. I don't know how anyone enjoys a reasonable quality of life on that kind of salary in Sydney, but I digress...

What I do know is that there are other operators out there (not naming names, other than to say one of them operates a Swedish-made product and another Seattle's finest - to name but two). I have mates working for both outfits who have mentioned to me that, irrespective of the officially published requirements, (unofficially) the management of these organisations will never seriously consider anyone from an instructing-only background. This is what I am referring to in terms of narrow-minded thinking.

The only people who have no respect for instructors are those with no instructing experience themselves. I've now had the opportunity to see both sides of the fence, and I can say without any reservation which is the more challenging of the two.

Mr.Buzzy
3rd Oct 2006, 11:39
I tried out for a job with EAA last year - and wasn't selected.

Say no more champ. We get the picture!

I wouldn't let you drive my wheelbarrow let alone teach people how to drive it.

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podbreak
3rd Oct 2006, 11:40
it is simply beyond me as to why there are still so many operators out there in aviation land who continue to snub drivers from an instructing background. .

Because quite frankly, the majority of instructor background applicants at these charter companies aren't me-IFR chinese teaching jugglers.

When I compare this type of flying with the charter work I did...

By the sound of it you weren't in the same boat as alot of others who deal with situations equally as challenging and stressful as the oriental experience you write of. You are correct about the fact that they are both VERY different ops, this is a major consideration when hiring.

Grivation
4th Oct 2006, 02:43
Bunglerat - I can assure you there are drivers at DJ (sitting in both seats) who came from an instructing only background.

ausflying
4th Oct 2006, 03:53
and i know of many qantas ones as well

The Bunglerat
4th Oct 2006, 04:29
QF is a given, I'm well aware of that. However I admit genuine surprise that DJ have employed drivers from an instructing-only background. I know quite a few guys working there, all of whom had to quit instructing in order to undergo the "rite of passage" that is Charter before DJ would give them the time of day.

So if this is indeed the case (as has been said), I apologise and stand corrected.

I should also point out that I secured employment with a RPT operation earlier this year, although in order to facilitate future progression through the ranks, I was 'encouraged' to take some extra flying on the side (to top up my multi-engine command time - which fell a bit short of company requirements). As such, this wasn't intended to be a bitch-&-moan session about my lot in life for having been passed over - because fortunately I've achieved what I set out to do. Nevertheless I continue to come across instructors who IMHO seem to have the right attitude, temperament, skill and ability for airline ops - yet who continue to be discriminated against by certain employers because they instruct. It's an issue close to my heart, which was what prompted me to post in the first place.

Rant over.

The Messiah
4th Oct 2006, 10:17
Absolutely concur with the above regarding Mr Buzzy. Mate, you really do sound like a moron everytime you post and whichever outfit it is you work for should really review their whole selection process.

Mr.Buzzy
4th Oct 2006, 10:46
No wonder you instructors get a hard time!
You can't take a dent to that huge but oh so fragile ego!
Lighten up.....jeeeez

Oh Messiah..... Are you really? What a modest handle.... love your work! Instructor perchance?

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