Part 66 LAEor degree?

[Kengineer-130]

What would you think the best carrer path would be to follow for someone who has got 7 years RAF aircraft engineering experience (engines + recent airframe conversion) ? do all the exams and training for Part 66 B2 LAE , or go to uni and do an aeronautical engineering degree? :bored: What sort of salaries/ wages can you expect for either paths starting jobs? what is there more demand for ? Getting a bit bored of getting shot at in the desert now,:ugh: feel it's time to go into the big scary civillian world :eek:

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'd suggest that although there's some crossover, the two lead to totally different career routes - it's almost a coincidence that each is called Engineering.

If you know and enjoy aircraft maintenance and support - then go JAR-66 or some equivalent, become a LAME (or equivalent) and continue doing what you are obviously good at, without being shot at. I'm no expert on the money, but it's pretty good, although I've met very few LAMEs who don't whinge constantly about the hours and conditions.

The degree route is for somebody who is looking for a quite different career. It's for people who enjoy the design / analysis / testing / backroom support of aeroplanes. You get to wear a suit, don't get shot at, work regular hours. For a 22 year old straight out of university they start on around £20k, but for somebody like yourself it's likely to be more like £30k since your RAF and maintenance would carry a lot of weight with the right employer. Not as good as many LAME are making, but on the other hand it's a classic route - if you want that - into senior management and there isn't really a cap into how far you can go (nor, to be fair, a guarantee you'll make a penny more unless you prove you are worth it).

G

[spannersatcx]

As a B1 unrestricted EASA 66 Licence holder, given the choice now, I would go the degree route (in fact I'd probably look at doing something completely different).

Why? pissed off working in the middle of the night in the rain changing wheels, because someone who had previously change the brake metering valve neglected to adjust it to prevent the a/c landing with the brakes already partially applied, 747, so there was more than a couple to change.:mad:

And jobs like this klmuk offering a paltry 24k (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245222).

In general in the EU, thanks to someone in EASA, because there are not enough qualified experienced LAE's, instead they are trying to devalue and deskilled the whole industry.

So in a nutshell, unappreciated, undermined, undervalued, overworked, underpaid, the necessary evil that nobody wants or appreciates until the proverbial hits the fan etc etc etc.

Use your time to get a qualification in something else. Hope that helps, just my opinion of course.:)

[Blacksheep]

You get to wear a suit, don't get shot at, work regular hours.Let's see now...
1. You get to wear a suit - Yes
2. Don't get shot at - Yes
3. Work regular hours - Err... Where on earth did that idea come from?

Seriously though, the hours and working conditions can be truly rotten as an LAE. The regulations now incorporate "Human Factors" but in practical terms on the Line and in the hangars, HF flies out of the window much of the time. Spanners may be right. If you have the choice, get a degree. Better yet, make it Law or Economics majoring in Banking, and then do an MBA. That's where the money is.

On the other hand, if like the rest of us you're truly a mug for aeroplanes and enjoy what you do now (except for the desert and all that shooting), go for a JAR 66 licence. You can always get a degree later and climb up the ladder if you want to. I did.

[Genghis the Engineer]

3. Work regular hours - Err... Where on earth did that idea come from?



Well, not dictated by aircraft movements and shift pattern anyhow. I know that on a Monday I almost always work 8am-8pm in the office, regardless of what else is going on...

G

[Rigga]

I totally agree with all the above, but...
I don't see why, as you leaving the Services and able to get grants and allowances up the ying-yang, you can't do both?

If you qualify for an engineering degree then you will almost certainly qualify for a Pt66 C Licence.

You may be able to sit in a nice office - In a shirt and tie - doing Base Maintenance Release to Service certificates, all day long!


So now you have THREE options!

[Kengineer-130]

cheers for the advice guys, the only problem I can see with a degree type route is that it will take 4/5 years to sort, and I realy want to be out before then :( , much as I hate to say it, as even in the 7.5 years I have been in things have gotten very very bad :( , and I cannot forsee It getting better... Is 35k for a LAME unheard of? or is that a figure for a big company such as BA/ virgin etc?

What degree would be best to go for you recon? Mechanical engineering, or aerospace/ aerodynamics or somthing like that? :ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

With your existing experience and RAF qualifications, I'd have thought you could get into a good BEng/MEng course without much difficulty. Also given those, anything more than a BEng would probably be wasting your time - you've already got a lot of specialist and working knowledge. So, 3 years - which is, admittedly, still a lot. I've been whingeing for years (and despite a few hopeful starts, still getting nowhere) about the lack of a part time / distance learning first degree in aerospace or mechanical engineering.

As for what course to take? - the main courses (the names change a bit from time to take) you'll come across are:

Mechanical engineering
Aeronautical engineering (also called aerospace, aviation...)
Electrical engineering
Electronic engineering
Systems engineering

The aerospace industry (and most other branches of engineering) is full of graduates of all of these. With your RAF experience I'd not worry much about employability - the problems are all for graduates without experience.

So, my suggestion, if going that route, is pick the one you think will be most fun. Mechanical if you are seriously into "hardware"; Aeronautical if you are into aerodynamics, whole aeroplanes, ops; systems if you are interested in the control and integration of engineering. Electrical and electronic should be obvious.

G

[Aerodramatics(UK)]

What would you think the best carrer path would be to follow for someone who has got 7 years RAF aircraft engineering experience (engines + recent airframe conversion) ? do all the exams and training for Part 66 B2 LAE , or go to uni and do an aeronautical engineering degree? :bored: What sort of salaries/ wages can you expect for either paths starting jobs? what is there more demand for ? Getting a bit bored of getting shot at in the desert now,:ugh: feel it's time to go into the big scary civillian world :eek:

Civilian world's not scary :D and RAF training and postive "can do" work attitude are good assets in civvy organisations, IMHO.

You really should do what interests you. *Really* interests you.

Aero, Mechanical or Avionics first degrees are all very well and good. They provide a common technical standard for both design, manufacture and in-service support/logistics engineering. But they are just a ticket into the job.

Just a thought but if you are really set on a degree, why not try and do a 1 year Masters degree in a specialism related to the career path you want? This minimises the "loss of earnings/experience/kudos" you exchange for the joys of tertiary education.

Some postgrad. Uni's accept relevent on the job experience and training in lieu of first degree entry requirements, others offer a 1 year foundation engineering course + a 1 year Masters. If you're earning now then budget for 2-4 years at Uni loss of earning loss of earnings + 2-4 years living expenses. What are we talking? A £60-£150K 'opportunity cost' as they say. Of course you need an accredited M.Eng. as the educational requirement to become Chartered nowadays.

Avionic Systems Engineers and Avionics Software Engineers (specialising in real time applications) are somewhat scarce and comand better starting salaries and prospects then traditional Airframe engineering skills - such as Aero/Mechanical. E.g about 3-5K more per grade. If you're good and have experience, you can occasionally, very occasionally get a job in future concept tyoe work, if that floats the boat...

Employers are few and far between and the big aerospace companies are recruiting in small but steady numbers but this goes in cycles. Are you working on an aircraft type that's recently been released or about to undergo a midlife update? If so, you could search out a job/role with the design authority, who'd value that experience.

On the other hand Licensed Aircraft Engineering is probably closest to what you do now, just the civvy equivalent. Those contracting jobs with biz jets look great to me, but what do I know? Best ask someone who's been there and done it.

Typical salaries in the aerospace industry are about £1K x your age! Topping out around £45K unless you get into very senior management... :ok:

[sumps]

If you are looking for a fast track degree and you have an HNC/D and a bit of rank behind you then you may want to consider Kingston University - London (http://www.kingston.ac.uk/~kuweb/aircraft_eng/aircraft/honours.htm) and its 147 approved!
You study, over two years, the Honours section of the degree that is applied to the fulltime foundation degree - It done by intensive study during two one-week blocks (Nov & Apr) in which you study two modules and complete a project, per academic year.

Yr1 =
Aerospace Technology (heavy in maths content: Structures, Flight Dynamics, Propulsion Systems...etc)
Maintenance and Logistics (EASA / Pt66 Legislation, maintenance methods, Aircraft maintenance computers, NDT, Military maintenance practises...)
Group Project - on the day of registration you are assembled into groups decide on a real need project then over the year develop it.

Yr2 =
Business Studies - (Market forces, Budgets and financing, Business strategies - and loads more...)
Quality - (Reliability, 6 sigma, TQM, Process control and the measuring of...)
Individual Project - as for the group...but on your own.

Each module will require you to complete an assignment (possibly two) and If you get stuck the you can ask questions on pprune and the likes of Genghis, Blacksheep, Rigga et al will bail you out (I did and they helped with there answers / comments).You take exams on two consecutive days in June for the modules studied that year.

If you are still a K-engineer PM me for greater detail (i.e. Costs, Contacts...etc)

[easaman]

What would you think the best carrer path would be to follow for someone who has got 7 years RAF aircraft engineering experience (engines + recent airframe conversion) ? do all the exams and training for Part 66 B2 LAE , or go to uni and do an aeronautical engineering degree? :bored: What sort of salaries/ wages can you expect for either paths starting jobs? what is there more demand for ? Getting a bit bored of getting shot at in the desert now,:ugh: feel it's time to go into the big scary civillian world :eek:

It depends on what is your personal interest.
Depending on where you are working, the salaries are similar.
In Maintenance you must consider working night shift and weekends!

Your B1 or B2 you can get by a home-study, unless RAF is paying for it.
You must consider 6 to 24 month of study plus practical experience....

University is a straight forward programme, but consider at least 4 years!

[Toby Gee]

[QUOTE=sumps;2887361]If you are looking for a fast track degree and you have an HNC/D and a bit of rank behind you then you may want to consider Kingston University - London (http://www.kingston.ac.uk/~kuweb/aircraft_eng/aircraft/honours.htm) and its 147 approved!
You study, over two years, the Honours section of the degree that is applied to the fulltime foundation degree - It done by intensive study during two one-week blocks (Nov & Apr) in which you study two modules and complete a project, per academic year.
I'm on this course above, however i practice and study in Bristol, and Staverton aerodrome. Now in my 3rd year. Its a combination of both the EASA pt66 licence and the honours degree in aviation maintance... graduating with both after 3 years. Good course, however its not like your steriotypical uni degree. there are many exams (around 40 in total) EASA and Kingston degree, and 4 days of lectures per week (9am-4:30)not to mention the compulsory 95% attendance and 75% pass mark. However a man of you experience should breeze it. Contact the CBC Aero Faculty on: 01173125980 All the best.