View Full Version : Ferry Aircraft Between LGW and LHR
scudpilot
28th Sep 2006, 20:54
Just wondered, on the odd occassion that an aircraft (say a 747) needs to be "repositioned" between LHR and LGW (or vice versa) how long would the flight take, and what kind of altitude would it cruise at?
Depending on time of day, between 20 and 30 minutes at around 6-8,000 ft as ball park figures.
barit1
28th Sep 2006, 22:25
Taxi time would probably be greater than flight time. :ooh:
(BTW - what do the British know about "ball parks" anyway??) :E
GK430
29th Sep 2006, 07:38
Last time, about 10 mins at 2,000ft and were level by time we crossed the
10R numbers....okay, it was that long ago:ok:
(and we weren't brutush:p )
AlphaWhiskyRomeo
30th Sep 2006, 00:32
Last time, about 10 mins at 2,000ft and were level by time we crossed the
10R numbers....okay, it was that long ago:ok:
(and we weren't brutush:p )
20-30 minutes seems too long.
Once airborne, I have seen flightplans for VS reaching FL 080 to FL100 with an airborne time of 10-15 minutes.
Guess it depends on time of day though.
HEATHROW DIRECTOR
30th Sep 2006, 07:15
AWR... it's the routing which takes the time; they don't go direct. Flying a SID out of Gatwick and a climb to minimum stack level at BIG, then the approach into Heathrow could easily take 20+ minutes. Years ago we just used to pull them off at low-level straight into the circuit. Maybe that doesn't happen now.
Guess it depends on time of day though.-you said it:rolleyes:
EG LTN-LGW = routing via LARCK to hold TIMBA = 45 minutes. Straight line at 2000' - lovely stuff- but my advice is don't load fuel for that only.
Global Pilot
30th Sep 2006, 07:55
Depending on time of day, between 20 and 30 minutes at around 6-8,000 ft as ball park figures.
A Titan 73 positioning from STN to LTN (for an Easy days work;) ) earlier this morning flight planned for 9 mins airborne (planned taxi 15mins). Routing EGSS Buzad5A Lorel5A BKY BUSTA LOREL EGGW at FL070. Actuals showed it leveled at 5 and took 11mins in the air.
BAforever
30th Sep 2006, 11:23
How long does it take for a 777 or 747 to get from CWL to LHR, LGW, MAN?:ok:
lobby
30th Sep 2006, 12:03
Used to be the case that any delay would be taken on the ground until the min stack level at BIG was available (FL070) and depart on the BIG SID.
bamcb38c
30th Sep 2006, 12:08
it usually takes around 30 mins from lhr to cwl a little longer from gatwick. thety tend to follow the m4 at around 12000ft
HEATHROW DIRECTOR
30th Sep 2006, 12:47
<<they tend to follow the m4 at around 12000ft>>
Aha.. is that how they do it? All my life in ATC I wondered about that!
HD - I wonder what they do if the motorway is closed.........................
Dan Air 87
30th Sep 2006, 15:17
And do they still have to pay the toll by the M4 Severn bridge?
bamcb38c
30th Sep 2006, 16:05
thats the ansewer i got from a captain last week when i asked anyway.......
haughtney1
30th Sep 2006, 16:31
Recently I did an 0 dark 30 LGW-LTN reposition, 12 mins airborne and cruised at 6000 ft, from the left turn too going through the 27/27 centre lines, the flying time was about 4 mins.....we were doing 310 kts though:E (bloody ex fastjet pilots!)
HEATHROW DIRECTOR
30th Sep 2006, 17:29
bamcb38c.. well to put it politely, he was pulling your wire! You surely do not imagine that modern commercial aircraft rely on roads to navigate?
Kestrel_909
30th Sep 2006, 19:24
bamcb38c.. well to put it politely, he was pulling your wire! You surely do not imagine that modern commercial aircraft rely on roads to navigate?
I'm remembering David Gunson talking about this, very funny :D They also follow the English Channel ferries to get across to France and follow the autoroute or whatever it's called.:E
Seat1APlease
30th Sep 2006, 19:40
When training at Oxford we used to go everywhere using IFR ( I follow railways) I think the rail timetable was more use than the Air Pilot
:ok:
HEATHROW DIRECTOR
30th Sep 2006, 20:32
Seat1Aplease... They used to use Smokey Joe a lot when I was there!!
....we used to go everywhere using IFR ( I follow railways) I think the rail timetable was more use than the Air Pilot
Old joke I know, but as PPL and (long ago) rail buff I can tell you that actually tracking railways from the air can be quite hard. Mostly built 150 years ago, the lineside vegetation has grown up to make them often indistinguishable from country roads. More easily traced in built-up areas, but then I shouldn't be over congested areas single engine in the first place, should I ? :)
Did you know a PA28-140 can't quite keep up with an Inter City train ?
Motorways on the other hand are no trouble to follow, the formation is much wider and the sideslopes are kept clear of trees etc.
Only exception is when there are long railway straights, but these are unusual. A well known one is the line which is dead straight from Redhill, near Gatwick, to Folkestone, it was followed by cross-channel flights in the 1920s/30s operating out of Croydon, when they painted the names in big letters on the station roofs specifically to help air navigation. Presumably removed once the Luftwaffe were likely to come over !
bamcb38c
1st Oct 2006, 10:17
to clarify im not naieve enough to believe he actually followed the m4 down from heathrow, the captain in question chose to simplify the route rather than quote the waypoints to an engineer who wouldnt have understood the intricaceys of the atc system. in much the same way as i explained a simplified version of the satcom and cmc syatems to him as he wouldnt have understood the full technical version.
not every1 usuing this board has the benefit of being either atc or flight crew so scoffing at a dumbed down ansewer, not intended as an exhaustive guide mearly a rough idea (remember this is in the spotters area not flight crew or atc areas), is both arrogant and misjudged.
HEATHROW DIRECTOR
1st Oct 2006, 10:47
Hey bamcb... Don't take offence. The vast majority of people on here have a loony sense of humour even though they are mainly professionals. Your comment sure provoked some laughs though! Heard the story about an old lady asking an airline captain how he found he way in the dark? He told her there was a red light out of one window and a green light out of the other and he just steered the aeroplane between them!
bamcb38c
1st Oct 2006, 10:57
no offenece was taken, just i believe that this area is meant for use by the general public with a limited knowlage of the industry and being overly technical and mocking discourages queations from genuinly interested but unknowlageable passengers and spotters. there are specific atc and flight crew forums designed for the discussion of the your issues please at least leave this area accessable for joe public.
pulse1
1st Oct 2006, 11:28
im not naieve enough to believe he actually followed the m4 down from heathrow
Well I believed the BA captain who told us he was following the M4 through Wales into heathrow coming back from Denver a few weeks ago.:sad:
barit1
1st Oct 2006, 13:49
Golly, whatever would the BA captain do if he were in the clouds and couldn't see the motorway? :ugh:
WindSheer
1st Oct 2006, 14:14
Do what one of our Captains did whilst trying to get a 76 into St Athan for Maint. St Athan was fogged so he came into CWL. Once the fog cleared he simply 'booked' the a/c out with atc and flew it VFR.
I have never seen that before, no plogs nothing! Simply some perf' and he was away. Fun to watch to!!
Also seen some of our guys take 320's over from CWL to BRS. 3000ft for the 'cruise', fastest one of them did it was 8 minutes. That was a fun weekly race.....crusing with a dirty wing....:D