TNT Liege, what is it like?

[quickturnaround]

I saw recently two adveritisements in Flight International, TNT is offering new jobs on various acft. Now how are tea and biscuits in Liege, schedule,
days-off, retirement-plan and interline agreements with TNT?
I just wonder? Any TNT jockeys please shed some light on this one.....

Greetz, QTA

[Crossunder]

S'pose the Nitro guys are too damn tired to answer your questions! :p
Hauling cargo all night, sleeping during the day. Who would want to do that to themselves? Check out TNT's web site; they basically say that fatigue is a big problem, and that you cannot have a normal family life when flying for TNT. And you have to live in Belgium. Haven't found any pros yet...:hmm:

[Kestrel_909]

Out of interest, what routes are the 744 being used on?

[Lemper]

S'pose the Nitro guys are too damn tired to answer your questions! :p
Hauling cargo all night, sleeping during the day. Who would want to do that to themselves? Check out TNT's web site; they basically say that fatigue is a big problem, and that you cannot have a normal family life when flying for TNT. And you have to live in Belgium. Haven't found any pros yet...:hmm:

The "Nitro" guys have now been called "Quality" for quite a while, they are alive, kicking and mostly Belgian, which makes it easier when one has to live in Belgium. They are hauling cargo at night indeed, and passengers during day from spring till fall. The night flying so called problem is being taken care by appropriate rest times and off days system, which allows them to benefit from family life better than most "day" pilots and even reproduce joyfully the latter activity allowing them a serenity rarely enjoyed in the aviation community of the 21st century.
Little do the the pros advertize as the positions are hard to get and only quitting loosers will bark with sour grapes.
The 747 is now connecting PVG and LGG.

[Donkey Duke]

The "Nitro" guys have now been called "Quality" for quite a while, they are alive, kicking and mostly Belgian, which makes it easier when one has to live in Belgium. They are hauling cargo at night indeed, and passengers during day from spring till fall. The night flying so called problem is being taken care by appropriate rest times and off days system, which allows them to benefit from family life better than most "day" pilots and even reproduce joyfully the latter activity allowing them a serenity rarely enjoyed in the aviation community of the 21st century.
Little do the the pros advertize as the positions are hard to get and only quitting loosers will bark with sour grapes.
The 747 is now connecting PVG and LGG.


What are the different fleet types at TNT, and which planes do passenger charters during the Summer? Which fleet has the happiest pilots, with better rosters or layovers? Cheers.

[SingSong]

What kind of pay do TNT pilots receive (all fleets, BAe 146, A300 and 737 i believe is their fleet, but i may be wrong and their may be more but these were listed in selection form available on their website).

Just ballpark figures would be nice,

Thanks

SS

[juanitabanana]

that can mean something like 3.500 € for a captain, even on the 747! on the other side, ops management is made of a bunch of belgian aviation frustrated guys who never could make it into Sabena... now they are even more pissed to fly boxes all night long for peanuts... so if you land there with any better money (through agencies i.e.) they will make your life proportional to their ever growing frustration. take care!

[cold_soak]

I am interested as well in what TNT is all about. Are the pilots still mainly Belgians or is it a mixed bunch by now? What does a normal roster look like?

Info on TNT is a bit thin (and a little on the oldish side), so all you Quality-guys get cracking...! ;)

Greetz

[manouche]

If you love your family, TNT is the best company you can work for (except the 747 fleet temporarly, because fast expansion and so pilots work on day off for the moment). Lots of days off. You have a minimum of 13 days off per month + some standby days at home.

The gross salary is normal, but belgian state cuts it down to 50%. Means for a captain 146 and 737 : +/- 3300 € + average of 700 € flight pay + 13th + 14 th month salary. The tax systems gives you some advantages if you live in Belgium (mortgage deduction,....).Don't know the 747 salary.

Company pays you a loss of licence + pension found + private insurance for entire family.

Some pilots are frustated (or just tired, because you have to deal with night work) but in general the mood between pilots is very good, very nice collegues and a good mix of belgians, brits, dutchs, germans,..

Good company

[cold_soak]

Thanks for the inside info, manouche!

4000€ after tax times 14 sounds very reasonable to me!:cool:
My application will be on the way soon...

what would the average time to upgrade be for someone with about 1000TT, incl. 500h multi-crew?

[Navigator33]

Ho hold your horses. As I read it, the mentioned salary is for a skipper on the Avro or Boeing.

[cold_soak]

Yo, I noticed that. Was thinking mid-term.....

[Navigator33]

O just very ambitious :ok:

[cold_soak]

I am going to belong to the "generation silver" soon. :rolleyes:
So things like settling down, pay off the mortgage and so on become an issue...

[sarah737]

Manouche,
6600 gross may be belgian standards, but it is 30% below market conditions for 737 skippers. TNT is offering 7000€ (after irish tax) and acomodation via Parc aviation for 737 capt and it took a long time before they found people..
You also work more or less 17 nights a month up to 11 hours a night.

[Cleared ILS approach]

Hi all,
As manouche said, TNT is a very good place if you want to be home and you live near Liège. If you commute it's another story.
According to me :
Pros :
- Lot of time off (13 days off + about 5-7 days a month between flights)
- Company expending (lot of promotions and biddings)
- Reliable business (You are sure to be paid every month)
- Good belgian salarys (But well below european market due to taxes)
- Very quick upgrade
Cons :
- Night flight 90% of the time (report at 0300 LT)
- Roster changing everyday while on duty. Plan nothing while on duty days as anything can happen.
- Taxes in Belgium (remove 50-60% from gross for the captains)
- A bit outdated aircrafts (except the 747's which are brand new) so quite bad rating to have on licence (A300, BAe 146)
- Very long nights of duty (12 hours by night is really long and difficult)
- You don't fly a lot (400-500h a year for short haul) which is a problem as you will leave after 5-10 years and other airlines want hours.
- 747's crews are away up to 10-12 days in a row (might change later?)
So to conclude is you have hours, a young family and are happy with the belgian salarys it's a nice place to be. Night flying must be really considered as it's a problem in the long term and you are really disrupted in your sleep.
If you are young, need hours, want to fly during the day on new-generation aircrafts don't go there.

Hope this give a better overall picture.

Regards

[cold_soak]

Thanks for the info.
What do you mean by "very quick upgrade"? How long -on average- does it take to move to the left seat on the Bae/Boeing fleet?

[Cleared ILS approach]

Hi,
I mean very quick. If you join with a some experience it's gonna be probably within first year or even quicker. Short of captains on every fleet and not many poeple to upgrade so if you are suitable for command it will happen really quickly.
Hope that helps.
Regards

[climbout]

Is that that applicable to the B 747 fleet as well?

[manouche]

Hi climbout,

On the 146 sector you can get command with 1500 h total and 1000 h on type. On the 737 it should be the same. I don't know what the requirements are on the 747 fleet, but the upgrade should be very quick as well because of missing captains

Regards

[cold_soak]

thanks again for the info, manouche :ok:
Let's hope the 747 guys get involved too and this thread will really "take-off"

[Toothbrush]

Some numbers

- On a yearly basis 176 days off, 189 days work. ( night network schedule)
- For expat captains, expect 3900 nett plus perdiems ( 100 euro per 24 hours)
- Base salary narrow body is 4000 FO, 6000 CPT. plus 2.5% per 1000hours experience with a max of 12.5%
- If your country has a tax agreement you might even recover more.
- Nice atmosphere, willing to work with you.
- Yes fatique is a problem, but it is recognized as being one, and TNT will take it into consideration.
- Actual Average days away per month is only around 12 on the 146 and 14-15 on the 737 ( or less )
- They are really short of captains

[loulou]

Hi,

here are some info about people here in TNT,

In general there is a very good atmosphere among the crews,
most of them are coming from belgium (wallonia and flanders), some are coming from neighbouring countries, like germany, holland, France; some are from UK (the ones who were part of Air Folye before it became TNT)

For the moment many are leaving to avoid the belgian taxes and because they got tired of the nightflights.

There is a tension between big management and pilots as the net salary is being decreased due to the increased belgian state tax, and the management doesn't want to compensate that by a salary increase.

Many pilots stay because :
-Not enough experience (most FO joined as ab intios in the last past 4 years and just fly around 400hrs a year)
-146 or A300 type rated, prefer to wait for a better TR like 737 or 747, at TNT you can have a new type rating paid by the company every 3 years.
-Some expect a quick upgrade as CPT as they need a lot now.
-some have their families around Liège and enjoy all the days off with their families

In general TNT pay the type rating, but already Type rated pilots are more than welcomed, however TNT doesn't give TR to people living far away from Liège as these people might leave the company quickly and the bonds are not legal under the belgian work laws.

Mins for FO is 250 hrs and 3000 hrs for CPT
Internal upgrades can pass CPT at 1500 hrs on the 146

the salaries as mentioned on ppjn are for 146 or 737.
A300 and 747 have a little bit better salary.
Most pilots don't fly a lot per year :
500hrs : 737
400hrs : 146
300hrs : A300
but they fly a lot on 747 around 100 hrs a month + long haul positioning, so they are not often at home

the 747 is flying to LGG AMS FRA dubai hongkong Shangai

Cheers

[JW411]

And if this is the same loulou that I am thinking of, he left TNT a year ago and joined FR in Italy with two type ratings in his pocket.

[liftman]

...Someone can post a typical Roster? It is possible to commute?

I am 146 rated with a lot of hours on it, really interested

Tks

[cold_soak]

Does anybody know if recruitment/interviews at TNT are planned any time soon?
..still kind of interested ...

[sergiokl]

I have an interview on Friday 26th in FRA! Sent my CV around July/ August!! Seems like it´s for the 747 fleet!! More when I´ve been there!! Cheers!;)

[cold_soak]

Hi sergio,

what sort of experience do you have to be considered for the B747?
Best of luck for the interview!

[sergiokl]

Actually I don´t really know! Presently I´m a Captain on an Airbus 310. even though I only have about 3300 hours of which 600 are in Command I got invited. I´ll let o know how it went. Cheers!!:)
Great!! They called it off due to OPS reasons. Next on Novmber 9th!:(

[clearance_clarence]

Thank you all for the useful info.

I have a few additional practical questions:

- Does TNT allow you to be standby from home if you live at a +/- 2hours driving distance from Liege airport or do you have to come to the airport in this case?
- Is there any catering onboard or no catering at all?
- The salaries including per diems are already mentionned above but how much do you need to deduct from that due to living costs while on daystop (hotel meals)?
- Is hotel based on bed and breakfast and if so, is there an alternative for breakfast if you wake up at 16:00 in the afternoon?

[invisiblemoon]

- Does TNT allow you to be standby from home if you live at a +/- 2hours driving distance from Liege airport or do you have to come to the airport in this case?
You have to be able to be on duty within 50'
- Is there any catering onboard or no catering at all?
It depends wether you're flying back to LGG during the night or not and some other factors.
- The salaries including per diems are already mentionned above but how much do you need to deduct from that due to living costs while on daystop (hotel meals)?
It all depends on the place you're staying but usually you need to pay for your lunch, that's all.
- Is hotel based on bed and breakfast and if so, is there an alternative for breakfast if you wake up at 16:00 in the afternoon?
Bed and breakfast. If you don't take your breakfast you get a rebate on your bill when leaving.

Edit : Stdby's are 50', not 1h30'

[sergiokl]

Well! Just a Sim ride on the 747-400. Non Typerated two ILS with a go around thereafter a Engine Failure and another ILS fullstop. Typerated 1 ILS and 1 VOR all in FRA. All with FD. Nice Guys but a little strange. Next step is a profile in LIEGE with 186 Psy. questions (in responsibility of the University of LIEGE) and then I will be able to ask personal questions. All in all I think good company but a lot of work to do since they are expecting their 4th 744 in January. Keep you updated!
Cheers, Sergio:rolleyes:

:confused:Hello Sacha, not very smart to start criticise the people of TNT , who interviewed you on a public forum. Bravo:D.
You forget to mentioned that the Go Around was due to a LH B744 on the runway
Strange but have a nice day:confused:


Sorry if I got something wrong but I didn´t want to criticise (http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&p=eL4jU.&search=criticise) anyone. As I said!! Nice guys. As I felt it a little at bit strange at some point why wouldn´t I be able to say that.
The rest is just to give others a little expression of what to expect when they get invited. I would have been glad if I have had some infos.
So again sorry if I offended someone but this was really not my intention.
Sergio
Oh, and if anyone sees criticizm here maybe he can tell me where if have hidden it!!!:ok:

[Blue 565]

Hello Sacha, not very smart to start criticise the people of TNT , who interviewed you on a public forum. Bravo:D.
You forget to mentioned that the Go Around was due to a LH B744 on the runway
Strange but have a nice day

[sergiokl]

Yesterday I´ve been to the interview in Liege. About 220 questions on the computer, to get a personal profile. There after a personal interview about your personality concerning your test results. Very relaxing atmosphere. Very kind interviewer. No technical quiz. Got a very good impression of the company. She couldn´t give answers to questions about the contract since they have to wait for the outcome of the interview + sim ride. If it is positive they will give details about the contract.
Cheers
Sergio :ok:

[Clarence Oveur]

Don't worry sergiokl. ............................................................ ............................... everything will be ok.;)

[sergiokl]

Actually ...........................I wrote him personal. He never ever responded so maybe it was ok. But thanks for the advice.
Cheers, Sergio:)

[manouche]

Hi,

On the 146, airbus or 737 you may get a direct command. What I heard about the 744, I think you have to get a little bit of experience on the right seat.

The rostering system is the same on all fleets . The latest to ask for a day off is 1,5 months in advance !! If within that period, you may change duty with a colleague if rest period permits.

Happy landings,

[coltseavers]

hi,
any infos about the 747 salary?

[7Q Off]

If you are experienced enough, dont need the hours and you dont want to fly a lot like in any low cost TNT looks like a reasonable place to work.
For an ab initio a low cost is a better place to build up time.

nett means salary in hand and gross means salary before tax, dont???

[earlyNFF]

and then I will be able to ask personal questions. All in all I think good company but a lot of work to do since they are expecting their 4th 744 in January. Keep you updated!

sergio, we are waiting for your update!

[non iron]

LouLou went quiet.
May l ask if a 9am local report for groundschool is counted as duty time for that evenings efforts ?

[sergiokl]

Actually I got my last call that everything is in the decision progress. That was around Christmas. Never heard of anything since. I don´t want to call again! Hopefully they will call me again, wether it is +/- answer! Just keeping my feet still and wait! So sorry no news!
Cheers Sergio:rolleyes:

[sergiokl]

http://www.tnt-airways.be/pilotform.htm
http://www.tnt-airways.be/framecockpit.htm

[Sitting Bull]

Hi

Can anyone tell me how long it takes to receive a reply, and if you also receive a reply if they are not interested in you?

I easily surpass all the requirements for a B744 command, but have not yet received any reply to my application, which makes me wonder if they ever received my application.

Thanks

[Sitting Bull]

Thanks...

...so I keep waiting

[Nick NOTOC]

They seem to be recruiting DEC via Park, maybe try that

Nick

[vandeven]

Hello to TNT interested persons,

On the 9th of November I too had a sim check for the 747, just like Sergio.
After that went for a personallity test in mid-december, all very friendly.
Until now I never heard from them again. I have the impression that they have the policy to provide no information to applicants before they offer a contract. This means that you are dependant on the rumours or insiders who are willing to share their experiences.
In the application process and before I requested things like rosters,pay,per diem etc. but these were nicely waved away with "you'll hear later".This seems not too wise if you are so short of pilots.
My qualifications are more than enough, 10000+ hours Captain on 744, so I can hardly imagine a problem there.
I heard it is nice to fly there but very hard work and many hours on the 747.
I will post again if I hear more.

Greetings

[Cap Loko]

Hi everyone,

Anyone got some news lately? Are they still taking (experienced)pilots?

cheers