QF Recruitment

[2BNASty]

I know I'm dusting the covers of an age old topic but. :ugh: .. Just wondering how many pilots are awaiting the call for stage 2 testing? Are you on the hold file, if so how long has it been?
Has anyone been given a 'please update your file' prior to JAN 07?
After speaking to a few QF pilots, it seams recruitment is extremely slow, plenty of uncertainty as to when more pilots will be needed - can anyone shed some light?
Cheers :ok:

2b

[Grnd Hog]

When are the A380s arriving! - Thats when recruitment is req'd.

[Avid Aviator]

Just been pushed back to July 2008 for first delivery.

Not good for those looking for a start or some progression within the rat...

[drshmoo]

Avid Aviator Just been pushed back to July 2008 for first delivery.



I really really really really really really hope thats not the case

[alidad]

I really really really really hope that you blokes don't put all of your hopes in the QF basket. At best if you get in, you will be the Captain's sexual advisor for 15+ years with little real progression.

The goal posts have moved chaps-move with them.

[*Lancer*]

Qantas Captains have sex!? :}

[ccy sam]

If a new QF SO started now, would they ever get a command, given that all expansion is taking place outside of mainline?

[hotnhigh]

Two new commands for the next training year ccy. (Some movement from fleet to fleet but two new commands!) You work it out.

[ccy sam]

So lets see. If you join as an SO at 5 years old, you'll get a command about 1 year before you retire. Why would anyone go thru all the grief to join a company that is eating itself?
I am NOT having a go at the pilots, but it is a legitimate question. In years past QF was seen as one of the plum jobs. Now not so.

[Bazzamundi]

QF have also mentioned that they are exploring the possibility of all new hires being on AWA's with a much lower payscale comparable to Jetstar. I assume they would also like to charge for endorsements. Not much the mainline pilot body can do to prevent this under the new workplace laws. I hope that is not the truth, but the company would have to be trying.

Given the recent publications stating that in a stagnant airline the average would be 12 years in each rank (ie 24 to command), and the fact that the airline is shrinking, it may take even longer. 10 to 12 years as an s/o on a "B" scale does not sound very appealing. CX seems to be the best option for current Aussie wannabes. Many QF s/o's are currently applying up there.

As to new hires, well there are a surpluss of pilots in a major way on the 330, Classic and 737. 737 crews have been farmed out to Europe, and as more domestic flying disappears under the Jetstar banner, and more 737's head off to the freight side of operations, the surpluss of pilots will continue. The same applies for the 330.

This training year there are 2 new commands, and about 5 s/o's being upgraded to f/o. The only hope for new recruitment being required is that many people resign and go elsewhere.

As to when the 380 arrives, some words are that the delay is indefinite and they may not arrive until even later 2008 and in a slow trickle. Also concerning is that the 787 is also undergoing production problems and may also be late (as mentioned on a tv station, I can't remember which one the other day). The longer the delays, the more time the company has to shaft everyone in the crewing of these aircraft types.

The list of cadets waiting employment has also grown significantly such that they will fill all available recruitment slots as soon as the wheel starts turning. The longer the wait until that happens, the greater the number becomes.

Things are not good at the Rat people. Make sure you exhaust every other opportunity with other airlines first as QF is not the dream job it once was in the past. Just ask anyone who works there at the moment as to how they feel about the place and the way it is being managed.

Sorry to be the bearer of less than positive news, however it is just as depressing for all of us within and hopefully things turn around in the next couple of years. We are all waiting in hope (however faint it may be).

[alidad]

Don't forget the move toward 65 years old for int'l retirement-Crikey the old captain's will be able to afford 6 ex wives instead of 4...........

[2BNASty]

Bazzamundi,
Nice post, but unfortunately not quite what I was hoping to hear - even though it was confirming most of what I and I'm sure others knew already.

The predicament is that a jet job is temporarily harder to get without the 500 multi and at least 2-3000 hours total. Overseas, the requirements are not dissimilar, however, there are FO positioins only requiring 1500 total with the obvious extras (ATPL etc), namely in China.

So where to for those just short of the VB / Jet* req'? Does anyone out there know how active recruitment is for non rated pilots, with, the bare mins (jet*/ VB req) ?

2b

[Bazzamundi]

Not what I wanted to post but the truth now will benefit those who are unfortunately having to live their life in some sort of false hope that the 'hold file' generates. Many have been burned by not pursuing opportunities just because they have been on the hold file.

[Kampai]

yeah and some got burned letting their employers know that they are on the hold, and have had any chance of progression stopped.

well if VB get the 340 and start intl flying, whats that endo going to cost?
Or will the jetstar A380 SO endo cost us less?

If you want to get into a jet in Oz will $50G's be enough to cover one or the other? or should you but that into converting your licence? so many great choices in this industry.

What a joke.

[Keg]

Don't forget the move toward 65 years old for int'l retirement-Crikey the old captain's will be able to afford 6 ex wives instead of 4...........

Tax free superannuation will see some of those guys who would've extended to 65 instead pull the pin at 60. The super will cancel out the possibility of EVERYONE extending and you'll end up with about the same ratio that it is now- about 1 in 10.

Just crystal ball gazing.

[Capt Wally]

...........once upon a time there was the tooth fairy, gnomes down the bottom of the garden & the wicked witch from the north , oh & not forgeting the fat white bearded guy wearing red who made us kids smile once a year, all those where at the forfront of our minds as children, but that was only once upon a time. Those children grew up & some became pilots with TAA & ANA of the day where there was a future & hope in the L/H seat before retirement, once upon a time.
Now we have children some growing up far advanced in mentality than us kids where with advanced computer games that can extend towards the controls of modern day flight via the airlines, that's of course only extended to those few that can & have the determination to jump thru the airlines 'hoops' & their reward for that is ???...........well they can look forward to an uncertain future with now what's regarded as some of the lowest paid work in airline aviation history not to mention being flogged & away from home a lot in some instances, & that's NOT once upon a time, it's now, here & is very real !!...................damn, there goes the early morning alarm clock (just as well some might say)............oh well it was just a dream but it's now back to flogging around the skies where 250 kts below 10000' doesn't apply, some of us are lucky & we probably don't even know it, don't try so hard only to be dissalutioned at the end of the day !:}

..........capt wally :-)

[pilotads]

I think its soon becoming the only Australian pilots we'll see are the rich and there instructors

[alidad]

Keg,
I think the result will be quite the opposite. If you read up on the Transition To Retirement (TTR) incentives in the legislation (which is not law as yet!)
, the ability to draw a partial pension and at the same time continue working,
sacrificing up to $100K PA into the super is rather lucrative-Most who can stand upright will consider it. Particularly if they don't have to leave their conform zone of a 744 and relearn domestic flying on a 738.

[777WakeTurbz]

If this is all true, then what point is there for the cadetship and what hope do those who get through to their CIPP have after their 2 year placement period?

Most who do and have nothing at the other end will have plenty of co-pilot time, a turbine and type endorsement but not have their 500hrs multi command etc which is needed for employment with other regionals if Oconnors or ****** etc dont decide to keep them on?

I did hear recently that there will be a large number of QF pilots retiring who started after completing cadetship CIPP in the past, but dont know how much truth this holds, does anyone know anything of this rumour?

Turbz

[alidad]

Keg,
addition to my last, page 40 of this weekend's Fin Review 30Sep-01Oct06
has a good article on the subject.

[Keg]

Thanks alidad. I'll see if I can get a copy of it on the aircraft on Monday morning.

[N2O]

The new laws have unintended consequences. Yes, they give those 60+ an opportunity to pay less tax via superannuation contributions... should they wish to continue flogging to LAX. However, it also makes it more difficult for J* attract expats home after July 1 2007, see this discussion HERE [pprune.org]. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=242705&highlight=alluring)
I wonder just how deep that well is now...

[alidad]

Unfortunately the only time the beancounters or the public will recognise the VALUE of experienced crews rather that the COST of having them will be in bitter hindsight after a BIG stuffup. Until then neither seem to be able to differenciate between a 200 hour cadet or a 20,000 hour veteran. After all - the aircraft currently arrive on time, in one piece, does it not?

[N2O]

Alidad, I don't want to hijack this thread but...
How stupid of the 'beancounters' to deny themselves a bigger bonus! It just shows how out of touch they are with their own business.
In another thread, J*'s own figures (http://www.jetstar.com/pdf/news/20060927.pdf) indicate fuel accounts for 25.8% of costs. Pilot costs are probably close to 1%, yet have a significant bearing on fuel used. In short the 1% cost controls the 25.8% costs. Fuel is even more significant to an LCC because, by definition all other costs are smaller as a proportion. Fuel use determines the profitablity of an LCC.
Southwest, the mother of all LCC's knows this and employs the best people it can get & pays them well. It is consistantly profitable, proven model. It doesn't try to destroy it own people for short term gain, it rewards and nurtures them. Thats the difference between profit & chapter 11.