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View Full Version : Cheerios weekend trip and lessons from the fall of the Roman Empire


Cheerio
25th Sep 2006, 22:41
I was trudging Hadrians Wall this weekend, and nosing around the touristy bits. Vindolanda is amazing. Those tablets found there that describe mundane Roman life are truly amazing. They were just like us!
Anyway, I soaked it all in, and drove back home, while Mrs C and the kids dozed I pondered on the irony of things. The Romans perhaps will maybe proven to be the greatest Eurasian civilisation of all, just like us but without the energy-parasitic technology dependency. How ironic though that our decline coincides with the decline of Christianity (oh, and the rise of another). The Roman decline coincided with the rise of Christianity (Nicea, Theodosius and all that) I blame it for the fall of the Roman Empire, and the dark ages that followed. Anyone disagree?
History also repeats itself......But history runs much faster these days too.
Abrahamics, tsk, tsk......Bad news.

;)

G-CPTN
25th Sep 2006, 22:53
And you never called in!
Agreed Vindolanda is great, and Robin has acquired a tremendous collection of artifacts (and earned the respect of the Establishment - he was at one stage scorned!).

Didn't the rise of the Roman Empire 'do for' the Greeks?

BlooMoo
25th Sep 2006, 22:58
Whether your point is prescient or not, you just feel you can't say it clearly, can you? Why is that?

BM:{

woolyalan
25th Sep 2006, 23:04
Do you really think our time is coming to an end? Id say far from it, but then, that could be wishful thinking

tony draper
25th Sep 2006, 23:13
The Roman Wall is best seen through the windscreen of a warm dry motor Vehicle,one speaks as someone who was twice forced to walk said wall when it was cold and hoofing it down with rain as is oft the case in that bailywick.
:rolleyes:

WhatsaLizad?
25th Sep 2006, 23:16
The Romans perhaps will maybe proven to be the greatest Eurasian civilisation of all, just like us but without the energy-parasitic technology dependency.
;)


The Romans, as well as just about everyone in human history, used slaves instead of fossil fuels. They were very dependent on them.

Trust me, when an aqueduct portion collapsed due to something like a flood, instead of dispatching energy consuming heavy equipment and supplies to rebuild the section, many slaves were probably at the pointy end of a sword to get the job done.

Would love to take the tour you did.

G-CPTN
25th Sep 2006, 23:19
The Roman Wall is best seen through the windscreen of a warm dry motor Vehicle,one speaks as someone who was twice forced to walk said wall when it was cold and hoofing it down with rain as is oft the case in that bailywick.
:rolleyes:
Too true! We have a tradition, whenever we have visitors (especially from abroad) to transport them (by car) to experience the snowstorm at Steel Rigg. It matters not what month of the year it is. Methinks it's really one of those plastic globes. On the RARE occasions that visible precipitation is absent, you can still rely on it being fecking cold, wet and windy.

tony draper
25th Sep 2006, 23:23
Due to one's experience of same one has a theory that said wall was not in fact intended as a barrier,it was a long thin prison camp.
:rolleyes:

G-CPTN
25th Sep 2006, 23:29
Centurions wearing skirts and sandles whilst exposed to the climatic extremes of the Wall was the fore-runner of the dress seen nowadays down the Bigg Market.

reynoldsno1
26th Sep 2006, 00:17
Agreed Vindolanda is great

is this some sort of curry based theme park...???

tinpis
26th Sep 2006, 00:23
Wernt that built in the time of Emperor Bolognaise to keep the rabbits out?

goshdarnit
26th Sep 2006, 00:29
Wernt that built in the time of Emperor Bolognaise to keep the rabbits out?
No, that was offah's dyke and it was to keep the rare-bits out.

{that is my second mention of offahs dyke in one night - surely some kind of record?}

G-CPTN
26th Sep 2006, 00:41
Seriously, Vindolanda is one of the few (only?) Roman Settlements that is being actively excavated, revealing artifacts 'beyond the imagination' of archaeologists. Because of the (extremely) damp terrain, preserved leather and wooden finds (most now lodged in the British Museum in London) have provided contemporary accounts of everyday life (including an invitation from a senior Roman 'wife' to the wife of a nearby settlement, inviting her over for 'tea'). Considerable quantities of leather footwear and adornments for horses were discovered in a 'dump'. It is thought that when orders were given to 'withdraw', the excess material was to be burned, but a downpour (!) extinguished the fire and the remains were buried in a ditch. Nothing like these finds has been discovered anywhere else, so they have become renowned by 'experts'. Robin Birley is a private 'developer' who started-out being ignored and despised, but has now earned his place within the cognoscenti.
http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/exhibition/docs-1.shtml
the excitement of the site lies in the preservation of organic materials that would normally be long vanished. As well as writing tablets, among the building timbers and the bracken flooring at Vindolanda survive leather shoes, textiles, wooden combs, dog excrement and the pupae of the stable flies with which the fort must have been infested.

goshdarnit
26th Sep 2006, 00:46
Cap, you have too much time on your hands.
Which leads me to suspect you must be a pilot.....

G-CPTN
26th Sep 2006, 00:52
No, that was offah's dyke
Offah's dykes:-
http://www.fallengoddess.com/assets/images/Christi_and_Lisa_dyke_march.jpg

goshdarnit
26th Sep 2006, 00:56
...or awful dykes?...

allan907
26th Sep 2006, 02:57
tin - it's wasted on the Poms - only an Aussie would understand:E Anybody got a link to the ad so that the Poms might share??

G-CPTN
26th Sep 2006, 03:00
So did the Romans colonise Australia before or after they visited England?

tinpis
26th Sep 2006, 04:36
tin - it's wasted on the Poms - only an Aussie would understand....



Oh....we will hafta educate the poms ! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvlWQyvEI38)

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/laughinatu.gif

allan907
26th Sep 2006, 06:43
tin Thanks fer that :ok: Gets better with each viewing.

Blacksheep
26th Sep 2006, 07:18
Centurions wearing skirts and sandles whilst exposed to the climatic extremes of the Wall was the fore-runner of the dress seen nowadays down the Bigg Market.A couple of years ago I visited The Wall, Housesteads and Corstopitum for the first time since schooldays. After being marched every which way across half of Wales as an RAF Brat, I always wondered how the Legions had managed in sandals. One particular exhibit in the museum at Corbridge caught my eye and put paid to all my previous musings. It was a well worn but still complete Roman army boot, complete with hobnailed sole. A boot that was identical to the military footwear of my youth.

Here was indisputable evidence! Roman soldiers wore ammunition boots!

In another corner were copies of letters written home by soldiers on the wall, one thanking Mum for the new woolly socks and leggings. Somehow, looking at items of their kit and reading their letters, these ancient troops sprang to life. A life that I easily recognised from my own overseas service.

Why is it that whenever I think of the Legions on the march, that image from "Carry On Caesar" always springs to mind...

Sinister! Dexter! Sinister! Dexter! Sinister! Dexter! Legiooonnn - Terminus!

Cheerio
26th Sep 2006, 08:31
Whether your point is prescient or not, you just feel you can't say it clearly, can you? Why is that?
BM:{

Probably because I was drunk, and tired from nearly 1500 miles of driving over a couple of days (The driving came before the drinking). Is that enough mitigation for you? I forgot to mention, I also was down in Somerset and was sampling a few of the gallons of cider I had bought!

Anyway, what about those Romans? I would have stuck to the false idols. They had some good ones.

Blacksheep
26th Sep 2006, 14:09
I would have stuck to the false idols. They had some good ones.Including one particular God that was born in a stable, of a virgin mother on the 25th December. Very popular with the Legions too, was Mithras. There's quite a few Mithraic relics up there on the Vallum.

Cheerio
26th Sep 2006, 14:44
Legend has it he was born with a sword in his hand. That must have made his mother reach for the laughing gas......

tinpis
27th Sep 2006, 05:54
Mithras was one of the proposed names of the McDonnel-Douglas F-4 Phantom II. :hmm:

tony draper
27th Sep 2006, 08:36
Mithratic Temples were all underground, apparently Mithras was a popular God among Roman soldiers,good idea I recons have lots of different gods,all the shit started with this silly Monotheism.
:cool:

Gainesy
27th Sep 2006, 10:40
Yer couldn't dig anywhere in my Mum's garden without turning up bits of Roman pottery, once gave a few bits of a jug rim with a zig-zag pattern to a mate from the Virginia Colonies-- totally freaked him out.:)

Tons of it in the Danum Castra (Camp on the Don = Doncaster) museum.

tony draper
27th Sep 2006, 10:51
Strikes one after watching Time Team for a number of years that folks from the olden days were a careless clumsy lot,they seemed to forever be breaking crockery, its all over the bloody place
:rolleyes:
One once did a spell looking after a cable laying gang,and one wasn't adverse to picking up a shovel now and then oneself,wherever we dug we used to find loads of broken clay pipes.
There is something very satisfying bout digging holes, as any Jack Russel will tell you.
:cool:

Gainesy
27th Sep 2006, 11:08
There was such a lot of it at Mum's cos there was a Potters yard and kilns just a 100 yards away, they think all the stuff that cracked when firing was just tossed out over the wall. They excavated the place when I was a kid , measured it, took some stuff away, took hundreds of piccies then re-covered it and grassed it over. Not allowed to be built on--ever.:)

G-CPTN
27th Sep 2006, 11:10
Not allowed to be built on--ever.:)
Which crack-pot decided that?

tony draper
27th Sep 2006, 11:38
They are a powerfull lot those Archeologists,if you find say a saxon grave in your cabbage patch and wish to build summt on your land there has to be a Archeological dig that you have to pay for before you are allowed to build so much as a pigeon cree,so if I ever finds a roman gold coin hoard on the DRapes estates it shall not be reported,one would melt em down on one's gas cooker one would.wouldn't one.
:rolleyes:

AcroChik
27th Sep 2006, 21:38
Trust me, when an aqueduct portion collapsed due to something like a flood, instead of dispatching energy consuming heavy equipment and supplies to rebuild the section, many slaves were probably at the pointy end of a sword to get the job done.

They still build dams and other stuff that way in places like China and Burma.

As an aside, I'm aquainted with a woman who used to work as an archeologist for a pipeline company (she's retired now). Her job was to scout the proposed right-of-way of gas and oil pipelines for any "native American" sites, and report them to both the company and the agency of whatever state she happened to be working in that dealt with "native American" affairs.

She loves telling the story of finding one site what she thought was pretty significant, in North Dakota. In fact, she thought it the most important archeological find of her life. The land was duly turned over to the tribe. The pipline was rerouted at great expense. The tribe built a gambling casino on the site.

tinpis
6th Oct 2006, 03:16
Sacred sites are always found here alongside large mineral or oil and gas deposits :hmm:

allan907
6th Oct 2006, 04:13
....in fact anywhere where the "local indigenous" might make a dollar in compensation.

One such bloke once confessed to me, after a beer or 3, that they deliberately "seeded" an area next to the Plutonic Mine (WA) when it was being proposed!

Heatseeker
6th Oct 2006, 13:39
Old old storey init
How do you find a sacred site ?
With a geiger counter.

ho hum

H