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BALIX
22nd Sep 2006, 11:48
I know there is an argument for not allowing teenagers to drive in the first place, as the number of roadside shrines littered across the country will testify, but whilst it is legal for my 17 year old son to drive I thought I'd ask the question...

What is the best way of insuring your newly qualified (and young) offspring if he were to obtain a car of his own? I ask merely for information as it seems to me that other people manage it. Said son is taking a year out prior to university and has a job at Marks and Spencer. It starts at 06:30 which means he needs to borrow his (properly insured) mum's car to get there. Of course his mum then 'borrows' his dad's car and I'm left with a bicycle that has frankly seen better days.

Mrs Balix seems to think that it might be a good idea to get him a little runaround, something like a Nissan Micra or a Ford Ka. I was dead against it but after trying to massage some life back into my saddle-sore arse I'm coming round to the idea. The problem is that the insurance quotes are over £2000. For a car that is worth, say £500.

So how do people manage it?

woolyalan
22nd Sep 2006, 11:53
Get a quote with Direct Line with you as policy holder and main driver, and your child as a named driver, should be a stack cheaper, and direct line allow named drivers to build up no claims discount.

Alternatively tell them to sod off and pay for their own policy :E

ormus55
22nd Sep 2006, 12:00
my daughters first car was a cheapo ford fiesta cost about 1000 quid. the insurance was a similar price.
there is no easy answer. insuring it the dads name will bring the price down somewhat but the insurance companies are wise to it. and will load the premium accordingly.
ask the insurance co,s first about which car is the cheapest to insure, before you go looking for one.

a fiat 500 seems about right for most teenagers around here!

i know a case recently where the dad changed his ncb onto the sons car and then insured his own car normally. even after adding the sons name to the ((sons car)), the premium was reasonable.
adding the two together, there was a big saving.

Mr Lexx
22nd Sep 2006, 12:06
As Woolyalan said, Direct line, the son will then gain his own NCB, thus equipping himself after two years for his own insurance.

As for cars, Ka's are expensive to insure (all Fords are, especially the hatchbacks).

One of the cheapest (safe) cars is the Skoda Fabia 1.4 Diesel. Group 2 and can be picked up for about £2k.

419
22nd Sep 2006, 12:10
But, you could have 2 problem doing this:
1/ If your son has an accident, you lose your no claims.
2/ From my insurance companies website Q&A page.
I can save money on my insurance by putting it in someone else's name and being the named driver.

Insurers cottoned on to this idea a long time ago, they will ask how many cars are in each house and who is the main driver. If you don't tell the truth you could make your insurance invalid. If you have a claim your insurer will see from the log book who the owner of the car is and they could refuse to deal with it. But that doesn't stop some motorists, often young people, from trying to put the insurance in their Mum's name!

Pan Pan Splash
22nd Sep 2006, 12:12
You mean teenagers actually insure their cars?? Thats a new one on me... or is it just the classy neighbourhood I live in..???:rolleyes:

woolyalan
22nd Sep 2006, 12:14
You only lose your no claims discount if the NCD is on that car, if it isnt, when you get a renewal notice from YOUR insurence company it wont register a claim. Even so, it wouldnt matter anyway if your NCD is protected.

As 419 and ormus say, insurence companies aren't stupid. But still, the premium, in a lot of cases, is drastically lowered

rotated
22nd Sep 2006, 12:37
BALIX, you might want to have a look HERE (http://www.euroncap.com/index.php) re the safety of various cars.

It would be a shame to save a few quid on insurance by buying a cheap small car only to lose your child if his 'supermini' gets squashed by something more substantial...

I would recommend checking out an older Volvo, perhaps a 700 series; cheap to acquire and relatively so to maintain. The turbo versions are fun enough to satisfy all but the heaviest foot, and they are built like the proverbial tank. And they are relatively inexpensive to insure because of their solid build and record of safety.

I dread the day Rotty Jr. takes the wheel, 'twill be all to soon...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
22nd Sep 2006, 13:11
shouldn't that be Insuring cars against teenagers ?

===

and no they shouldn't have large, heavy cars like Volvos. They should all have light, insubstantial cars that don't make too much damage when they bounce off MY volvo. It'd make better drivers of them.

rotated
22nd Sep 2006, 13:33
They should all have light, insubstantial cars that don't make too much damage when they bounce off MY volvo. It'd make better drivers of them.

Easy to tell you've none of your own, one tends to get quite attached to 'them' :) :ok:

BALIX
22nd Sep 2006, 13:40
Right, so the way I see it is that getting him as a named driver, which is something that we already do for his mum's Honda Jazz, would be cheaper. I had sort of gathered that but was aware that insurance companies are not stupid and could invalidate the claim if they found out that he was the owner or main user.

However, if the registered owner was his mum - ie, she had two cars, each with its own policy with him as a named driver on each - how could an insurance company find out that one was being used mainly by the named driver. I'm sure they would suspect it but would they do a bit of detectoring to find out? I guess that if she were to own a second car, the no claims bonus on tha car would have to be built up from scratch but even so there might be a big saving. All of which pales into insignificance should the insurance company not pay out.

I think I'll tell him to catch the bus...

DG101
22nd Sep 2006, 17:25
Why not make him use the bike?

You want it when?
22nd Sep 2006, 17:39
Get something older and insure it third party only? Or bite the bullet and pay the price, direct line do seem to have a good deal but make the son pay the uplift - he's got to learn it all costs in life :)

Mind you, a full licence at 17 does seem pretty good! Well done to him. :ok:

BusyB
22nd Sep 2006, 18:25
If you wanted to go the new car route a company called young marmalade will give him his first 9 months insurance for £500.

http://www.youngmarmalade.co.uk/

You could probably negotiate with some dealers to buy a new car with enough discount to pay for a years insurance.

All teenagers are expensive with cars, just depends how safe you want them and how much you want/are prepared to spend.:{

BALIX
22nd Sep 2006, 21:29
BusyB

Young Marmalade sounds like a good scheme - something like a nearly new Ford Fiesta comes in at £130 per month for 3 years plus the £700 insurance for nine months. Unfortunately he only has part time work with M&S (although he does extra hours) and it is probably a bit too much, especially since he is due to revert to being a poor student in a year's time.

Interestingly, were he to chop his willy off and pretend to be a girl, the insurance would be only £300.

DG101

Great idea but he would have to set off at about 3am to make a 6:30 start.

mini
23rd Sep 2006, 01:30
Balix,

This may be a great oppotunity to introduce Balix junior to the issue of responsibility. Get him a car (whatever model) let him take out a loan to cover the ridiculous amount the insurance company wants. He will learn a little discipline in having to repay the loan and at the same time his self preservation may be enhanced by the prospect of a lower premium next year. :cool:

spekesoftly
23rd Sep 2006, 02:03
Even so, it wouldnt matter anyway if your NCD is protected.

Protected NCD is still no guarantee that your renewal charge won't increase following a claim - see the small print on your car insurance policy!

flowman
23rd Sep 2006, 07:27
One of the advantages of living in Belgium is that you can put named drivers on your insurance at no extra charge. 18 year old son and 20 year old daughter drive 5 series BMW, total additional cost - zero. And it's a lot safer than a ford Ka or whatever.
They have gone to University now after 2 years of incident free driving so the car and my offspring survived unscathed. Phew!
So Speke softly, the answer to your problem seems to be to move to Belgium. Oh and cycling is much easier here, there are no hills! Still get a sore arse though.

slim_slag
23rd Sep 2006, 08:37
Insurance isn't all that cheap for us old codgers with 'safe' jobs and no points either, it only appears cheap because of the no claims we all build up. Try coming back here after a few years overseas (so no no-claims) and insure a decent car, it's not cheap. If you have full no claims then triple the cost of your policy, that's what they would want if you were starting from scratch.

419
23rd Sep 2006, 08:47
Still get a sore arse though

Because of the cycling, or another reason:ooh:

flowman
23rd Sep 2006, 09:20
Because of the cycling, or another reason:ooh:
I don't believe I have to disclose that information when applying for insurance!

You want it when?
23rd Sep 2006, 10:51
I seem to recall schemes from Norwich Union that allow you to drive but not after dark etc... it might be worth doing some google and see what odd schemes are available for restricted use.

Lon More
23rd Sep 2006, 11:28
Because of the cycling, or another reason
Another, less obvious reason, is the buttock-clenching moments caused by the feckwits who use the Belgian road system. Most of them have their heads so far up their fundaments that they are looking at life from behind their teeth.
There has only been a driving test in Belgium since the 1960s, before that all you had to do was ask at the gemeentehuis/hôtel de ville and get one free. Fortunately most of those who went this route (no pun intended) have now managed to kill themselves off. However the mentality continues. If ever there was a national category for the Darwin Awards Belgium would win every time.

BTW Flowman, with your entitlement to cheap cars and cheap petrol it's probably cheaper to let them drive than walk.:E

BALIX
23rd Sep 2006, 14:33
Balix,
This may be a great oppotunity to introduce Balix junior to the issue of responsibility. Get him a car (whatever model) let him take out a loan to cover the ridiculous amount the insurance company wants. He will learn a little discipline in having to repay the loan and at the same time his self preservation may be enhanced by the prospect of a lower premium next year. :cool:

Hmm, Junior Balix and responsibility - that is an interesting concept :hmm:

Actually, it isn't a bad idea really. I believe if he were to do the pass plus course, no bad idea in itself, insurance companies will lower the premiums by quite a lot. They will still be a lot of money but take the hit now for better times in the future.

noisy
23rd Sep 2006, 14:53
I'm with DG101, make him use the sodding bike. No Bu99er ever helped me with my insurance. I well remember working all summer and then being charged £850 to insure a scrapyard refugee of a Vauxhall Nova that wasn't really worth the £150 I paid for it. :mad:
insurance companies! aaaaagh!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
RANT RAVE FROTH ETC
*Goes off for a lie down in a dark room*

frostbite
23rd Sep 2006, 15:33
Times certainly do change.

When I got my first car aged 17, 'Sit up & beg' Ford Popular cost £15, TPFT insurance added another £15, and I'm fairly sure that road tax was c. another £15.

maggioneato
23rd Sep 2006, 16:29
Both my sons had their own insurance in their own names from the start. From the number of accidents and write offs it was just as well. One of them ran in to the back of a car on the way home from passing his driving test. Quite a few more claims after that as well. As for the other one, I lost count of how many vehicles were written off, cars and motorbikes.
Restriction on my insurance was no one under 30 to drive. Thank goodness for that, or they would have wrecked my car too.
Things come too easy to todays youth, so get him to appreciate his new found freedom by paying for his own. They are high risk so the premium reflects that.

hingey
23rd Sep 2006, 19:14
I seem to recall schemes from Norwich Union that allow you to drive but not after dark etc... it might be worth doing some google and see what odd schemes are available for restricted use.

Not cheap. They quoted me (18 y/o male) over a grand. Heck of extra hassle for a disproportionately small saving. Ford Ka quoted at £1200ish, cheapest I've had so far!

h

newswatcher
23rd Sep 2006, 21:53
Balix mentions "Pass Plus". Definitely a good idea. See http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Category.asp?cat=242 :ok: