VK Advert For B733 Drivers On PPrune

[oba_idan_amani]

I was amazed to see Virgin Nigeria advertising for B733 drivers on Pprune. The requirements for F/Os to me is just too high. 3000 hours TT with a minimum of 1000 hours on jet to fly B733. We have guys flying B738 for Ryanair with just 250 hours. Same at Easyjet, TRSS program takes on guys with 500 hours I believe. These airlines have not Crashed so far because the F/Os has 250 hours. God knows what the requirement will be to fly the A340 for them (I will talk about that in a minute).

All pilots including F/Os must have ATPL. In return they are given nonsense salary and taxed more than ¼ of their salaries (this I can now confirm, as I have a friend inside and saw his pay slip). How on earth are guys like me supposed to apply, when are we going to get 3000 hours. The only good thing is that Arik is looking at we guys (God bless them).

Virgin Nigeria should start thinking of training the young pilots around, am sure Gecat can identify we potential Captains for them. Gecat does this for Easyjet, Ryanair etc, am sure if we are given the chance, the story will be different. Even British Airways and Virgin Atlantic (VN requires 2500TT for wide body airplanes, check the website before you reply) requirements are not that ridiculous.

I think 1000TT for F/Os makes more sense. The airline can not just keep on employing local Captains, then demote them to F/Os, and then employ Captains from Parc Aviation as contractors. Double standard I think, because am sure these Parc Aviation Captains did not go to Gecat for assessments. Am also sure they don’t have JAA licenses, they will be stupid to have it and then be tossing about with Virgin Nigeria.

Rumour is that most of the current F/Os at Virgin Nigeria cant wait to get out once airlines like Arik and Aero start coming in with their airplanes. Who will blame them, they have no carrier progression on sight. No change of seats, and no chance in hell of moving to a higher fleet (A340). As a matter of fact, rumour has it that, almost all Nigerian on the A340 are F/Os. Again they were employed as Captains then demoted to F/Os or booted out. Many I heard have been booted out. Not sure how it works anyway, but the Airbus is G registered. So these guys must have JAA licenses (unless UK CAA gives validation which I doubt) but are booted out because they are Nigerians (my speculations here, would like someone to fill us in on what happened here) ?.

Rumour also has it that because the Nigerians cant fly the Airbus, no more Nigerian is going on it (again rumour, will like someone maybe from the inside to fill us in).


Oba Idan Amani

[surely not]

Hmmmmm O_A_I there is a lot of uncorroborated comment presented as 'informed' commentary in your posting.

Maybe you should ask GECAT about the standards achieved by many of the applicants who have gone through the sim testing, you might be surprised at the answers you receive. Sometimes, I have heard, the number of hours in a log book has not been an indication of abilities.

Not many airlines have a lot of promotions after just over 1 years operations, unless they are growing at a phenominal rate. Ryanair when it first started on its path to being one of the dominant LCC's in Europe also had higher hours requirements for its flight deck crew. It knew that the first pilots through the door were likely to be the basis of the managerial positions as the airline grew, therefore you want more experienced pilots in early. Once there is a good base of experience you can afford to have lower hours newbies filling in a few positions.

[LongJohnThomas]

Hi all,
All comments taken on board, i think for real that Vk does have quite a bit on their hands.
Unlike Sn who seems to think that Vk is the high and mighty carrier of nigeria, some of us differ in opinion.(SN NO OFFENCE)
Vk has sold the impression that the nigerian pilot cannot fly for sh*t and that we have nothing upstairs to say the least.
Unfortunately, we grade ourselves with worldwide standards and quite often exceed those standards on our rare occassions.
They now want pilots who have experience that exceeds that of Virgin Express and all major carriers who fly the 733 in europe, start up or not, what's right is right! Ryanair employs pilots with that kind of experience as captains.
Afterall, the prerequisites for captain on these types are typically, ATP, 3500 hrs TOTAL TIME, and 'i think' 500 hrs on type, which may be part of the 3500 hrs.
So why ask people who are already eyeing the left seat to come and sit on the right for god knows how long?!
The guys there WILL be taking a leap shortly, i know a few who will.
Arik tends to just stick to the business at hand;MAKE MONEY!
There's no real way of actually testing a pilot's prowess, since we all have different ways of coming to the same conclusion taking procedures into consideration.
Significantly, my friend Sn has ignored the fact that Vk takes a third of the pilot's take home in the name of tax etc,(Thats fact!!)
Anyway, before i am tagged anti-Vk, i'll hold short!
Sn, these are just opinions, nothing personal.:ok:

[oba_idan_amani]

SN, Rumour has it, that you are ex Virgin Nigeria top person (You were also described as a very nice guy who was on the side of the locals, and you noticed some of these things I write about, could not take it and left). You say “the number of hours in a log book has not been an indication of abilities”. I agree with you on this, and that’s one of my main point. If you know this, why use the number of hours as a bench mark for pilot recruitments at Virgin Nigeria. Why not give we young guys a go.

You suggested that if I see the Gecat results of some of these pilots (pilots with tons of hours on jet or God knows what), I will be shocked. OK, why not send the Parc Aviation Captains currently flying for Virgin Nigeria with thousands of hours on the machine to GECAT and see what will be written about them. Why have two laws eh ?

You have also said nothing about the A340, I guess I was right on that one. Maybe we young guys should be looking at ARIK, we all one day want to fly B767 or A340. I will keep on doing more investigation to reveal the nonsense that is going on at VK. Its supposed to be the flag carrier of my country, forgive me if I am being personal.

LJT did hit the nail on the head. In Europe, the place you lot came from, you put 23 year old 3000 hours TT in command of a B738. Why not do the same here in Nigeria. You also pay them a lot more. Just thinking about things like this make me sick.


Oba Idan Amani

[dynamicd]

More grease to your elbows Oba-Idan Amani:ok:We need more people like u to fight for local pilots.One thing though i think is high time u and your colleagues with this type of info go to the media me thinks they will be very keen interested in exposing the discriminatory tactics of vk to the public.who knows this might attract the attention of politicians and vk might find itself in trouble come next year.

If i may add KQ the pride of Africa also puts cadets they train at 43 air school wiht 250 hours on 733s so also ethiopian airlines.Guys we must fight this or else we will be back in the dark days of the WAAC west african airways cooperation & the early days of the defunct Wt when the nigerian pilot was treated like ****.

For interest try nd read the book African pilot by Capt Ohioma.former dfo express airways and one of the first 3 nigerian pilots trained at hamble air university in the 50s.it is available at NCAT library zaria.This will give u an insight into the travails of early nigerian pilots.We must not let history repeat itself.:ok:

[Revnetwork]

Hi guys,
All comments taken on board and I tend to understand the frustration of certain people here who either don't have the necessary hours or were rejected at some time during the process.
It is also correct that some airlines in Europe take on low hour pilots as FOs. Is it not possible that the hour requirement is driven not by VK but by insurers/lessors/ especially given the PERCIEVED unsafe aviation industry in Nigeria as seen in Europe? Just a thought. I'm not saying that's the way it is.
I also know SN and he definitely wants the best for the Nigerian Aviation industry.
All rumors of course!!

ps. I also know there are quite a few Nigerian Capts and FOs on the A340 fleet.

[Flying Touareg]

thats why we must give a thumbs up:ok: to the late adamu Dankabo, Owner of Kabo Air. The 747 captains and FOs are Nigerians and he really made an effort to develop a lot of Pilots who are now flying elsewhere.

I think very few airlines supported their pilots like Kabo Air even though i believe they were bonded and kind of exploited. But how many Nigerians fly big machines as much as those in Kabo do.

[GlobalFlyer]

"thats why we must give a thumbs up to the late adamu Dankabo, Owner of Kabo Air. The 747 captains and FOs are Nigerians and he really made an effort to develop a lot of Pilots who are now flying elsewhere."

That's true, but if only he paid them on time!

:p

[MarkD]

seems to me that VK and the number of hours it requires was done to death here some time ago... but I'm too lazy to use the search function :D :\

[Flying Touareg]

GF
sometimes it is never about pay. Captain Saidu the present MD will surely tell you so.:p

[surely not]

O_A_I the only part of the rumour that is true is that I am a very, very, nice guy ;) , and yes I do think the locals I worked with are very capable people :ok:

I did work with VK for awhile, but not as a 'Top' person, and I left because my contract came to an end, not because I was making any statement about recruitment of pilots.................. I wasn't involved with that area.

FT I met several crew who had flown with Kabo, and I was amazed at some of the stories they told me about the operation. If true, and I had no reason to doubt them, then the standards they were applying were far from desireable and merely confirmed the old stereotype of Nigerian airlines at a time when there are some responsible operators trying to improve things.

Revnetwork is probably near the truth in his reply re the hours required.

Hey Rev how come you didn't contact me for that beer? You'll have to come and visit me in my new home :)

[dejidip]

Methinks it might actually be an insurance requirement,eg-some of the guys ,FOs flyings props are quite very good and are very good Command Material but the insurance on this planes require that you amass 3500hrs before you can command them , nothing discriminatory coming from the management but from the investors that took out those policies,now you have excited young fellows who believe they are capable, grumbling and bashing mgt and cooking up all sorts of stories that they are being denied command when all they have to do is take a peek at the Ops manuals, while not holding brief for VK;enough of VK bashing im sure things are going to get better,additionally ,Pilots from all employment agencies pass thru the GECAT Assessment-FACT:cool:

[Rani]

Is this Capt. Saidu really the managing director of VK ?
Believed its a guy named Clifford.

He was referring to the MD of Kabo Air.

The CEO of VK is Conrad Clifford.

[dejidip]

Is this airline still in bussiness,not heard anything about them for a while,If they around where do they now ply:confused:

[Flying Touareg]

i think kabo has for the past two weeks being operating daily flights out of Kano to Jeddah for the Umrah.

Which reminds me, how far has VK gone with the Umrah operation? Kabo has since started.

[Rani]

Kabo is on its last legs. The aircraft (about 3 747-200s) were bought from Virgin a few years back, however only 1 seems to be serviceable. 1 was scrapped, and the balance are due for D-check.

Surely Not's seen the serviceable one taxiing around Aminu Int. Airport earlier this year, and I've seen it land before my eyes in Jeddah also.

[dejidip]

UMRAH,How many times a year is this conducted,what do they do all year long,just curious how do the crew maintain currency

[Flying Touareg]

sleep i guess:confused:

but i just confirmed that kabo has started the umrah ops.

[Rani]

Umrah is an informal pilgrimage to Mecca which may be conducted at any time. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I hear/read that Umrah is most venerated when conducted during the holy month of Ramadan (now) and especially during the last its last week. For this reason the bulk of organized Umrah flights are operated during Ramadan.

[jagunmolu]

Anyone has any idea of VK start dates for their next intakes and we hope home boys would be amongst them not just PARC contractors all the way THIS TIME AROUND STILL A LOT OF HOME BOYS HANGING LOSE AND LOOKING FOR EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES,:E

[surely not]

There were 5 Kabo 747- 200 on the apron at Kano in April this year. Well 1 was actually being parted out by the aeropllane graveyard!! Of the other 4 only 1 moved during the 2-3 months I was there. I heard it flying twice and saw it land once as well as watchingit go around the apron to stretch it legs :) It might have been 5N-000 but not sure.

They sat on the ground all through the Hamatan sand storms without a single engine blank in place or control lock fitted. I think at least 3 of these aircraft are ex Virgin Atlantic............................what a sad end to their life.

[barkingboris]

Hi gents.
I have been reading the Virgin Nigeria posts and it seems to be very unclear as to what the basic salary/package is.
I am with Emirates and have over 6 years on 330/340 and would be interested in VK as i believe they have JHB basings.
I went onto the website and there are no figures or anything to give one a heads up .I am loathe to go through the whole online application process and find out the package is not remotely suitable.
Anyone have a rough idea of what they offer,purely in terms of money ,basings and prospects .I dont need to know all the nuts and bolts.
Much appreciated.

[NIJASEA]

There is no base in Joburg for crew only options are the UK and Nigeria(Lagos), pay aint nothing to write home about believe me after taxes you make more flying a 737 in Ryan Air than a commander on the A340 or an F/o on the A340. I suspect you have a good package in Emirates and in VK the only way in if you aint Nigerian is through an employment agency and unless you are an experienced TRE/TRI forget the A340.
Best advice i can give is wait a few months till VK knows what the future holds then try applying its not such a bad job, not too much flying nice people and still a family enviroment.
"ARIK ARIK ARIK" Dont forget guys the devil you know is better than the angel you dont.