Independent Pilots Association

[miles offtarget]

Any opinions on the viability of leaving BALPA and joining these guys and girls; am somewhat unimpressed with my current representation for a number of reasons, and would look elsewhere if there was a credible alternative.

http://www.ipapilot.com/Public/p_Whytheipf.asp

Thoughts gratefully received, however if you have an interest in either party then please say so, I would still be glad of your thoughts.

Cheers,

MoT

[outofsynch]

Ther is no creditable alternative for representation. yes IPA do provide many of the advantages of BALPA membership, but not with the same backing of IFALPA/ECA/BFS.

When you find yourself needing urgent legal or industrial support, do you want a long established oragnisation with contacts, or an insurance company?

[Agent Oringe]

I afraid I wouldn't get too excited about legal representation.
My experience of their legal department is a bit of a joke to say the least.
If there are straightforward case's then you would be OK. However, most things these days that require the needs of a good brief are normally not.

Simpson Miller are only a figure head, to dot i 's and cross t 's.
If there is ANYTHING controversial then they ALWAYS side with the company you have a grievance with or run a mile.

There is far too much internal politics within the NEC at the moment and this is clouding their judgement when it comes to actually helping the membership, who really could do with their support.

BALPA, whilst having some good points, are a bit of a Paper Tiger I'm afraid.

PM me if you want more comprehensive details.

[angelorange]

have to disagree

I have found the IPF very helpful in resolving issues like fairness of bonding agreements etc and have used their FREE legal services with a successful outcome.

They have a regularly updated website and offer excellent advice on all matters pertaining to airline/commercial flying.

Also for £11 a month it's a lot better value than 1% of your salary!

To stick with BALPA because they are bigger is rather like reasoning only FORD make cars! There are better alternatives out there!

[Oxidant]

With whom do you disagree!? (A.O or O.O.S) & (IPA or BALPA)

Must admit that I concur,(with A.O) recent events (that I am privy to)have shown BALPA's legal assistance to be sadly lacking.

[angelorange]

with O.O.S

ie: that there's no viable alternative to BALPA

there is!

[X-Centric]

Legal representation with BALPA under the direction of R.A.: don't make me :yuk: The guy is next to useless, have BALPA done anything to replace him yet? Experience with the IPA during pay negotiations was dire. I would, however, always endorse union membership within our industry & between the two it has to be BALPA, warts & all.

[Binder]

The fact is that the airlines with the best terms & conditions have the strongest Balpa membership.

However if you are outside an airline and just want some protection then IPA may suit.

Many years ago when there were no flying jobs going and I had a few weeks out of work, Balpa sent me some gift vouchers at Christmas time. At least I was able to get something for the kids!

How times have changed!

Binder

[Fuel Crossfeed]

Binder in answer to your first sentence you obviously dont work for Monarch then!!!

[FlapsOne]

To suggest that the legal dept of balpa side with the management in complicated cases is quite ludicrous. The Jessica Starmer would never have started!

Any legal company that is funded by collective premiums (which is what the legal side of balpa effectively is) has to make a judgement call on each case presented. If the chances of 'victory' are not reasonable then is it wise use of resources to spend collective fees with little chance of success - probably not.

Individuals will always feel hard done by if their case is not pursued but you surely cannot expect an almost open ended fund to run till defeat.

A privately hired lawyer would be delighted keep taking the cash.

[Caractacus]

Some years ago BALPA were representing me at an Employment Tribunal. They pulled at short notice shortly before the hearing. I funded my own counsel. I won my very straightforward claim for notice money based on the terms of my contract.

Quite why BALPA pulled out I do not know. However, one of their senior people 'phoned me at home and spoke to me in a very aggressive tone when I complained loudly at their decision. Very oddly, he claimed to have no knowledge of the company I was claiming against.

I suspect the individual had a lot of knowledge about the said company.

Draw your own conclusions.

BALPA is a curates egg. Hang on to it for the good parts but adopt a cynical position when you deal with them.

[one dot right]

Must admit that I concur,(with A.O) recent events (that I am privy to)have shown BALPA's legal assistance to be sadly lacking.

Reg Allen, no stomach for a fight whatsoever!:mad:

[FlapsOne]

Caractacus

Very odd that no reason was given for 'pulling out'. They must have said something!

There is no way whatsoever that company pressure would force a case to be dropped. BA tried that with the Starmer case.

If, after assessment, the chances of success are good - it goes ahead.

[LJ.543]

Oh Dear,

Another one of those "which is better - BALPA or the IPA ?" debates.

These things seem to come along almost on a monthly basis now. I'm not sure that they increase the sum of human knowledge very much. The IPA supporters slag off BALPA. The BALPA supporters cannot understand why anybody wants to join the IPA. Give it a rest will you?

LJ

PS I'm a BALPA man.

PPS Agent Oringe claims to know an awful lot about the inner workings of BALPA which I find very difficult to believe.

LJ

[Agent Oringe]

Got the T Shirt I'm afraid.:ok:

[speedbird800]

The truth of the matter is that everyone needs a little help from time to time. You wouldn't drive your car without insurance, so why do so many pilots fly planes which cost millions of pounds without insurance?

The insurance is membership to the IPA or Balpa. How good the insurance policy is can only be judged by the service that is offered. It's not down to the money you pay. Just because you pay 1% of your Salary doesn't mean that you are getting a better service.

Please understand that representation in the work place starts in the work place. Any airline work force regardless of who is the representing body is only as good as the members. The IPA and Balpa are here to represent your wishes. If the members of both organisations don't want to support themselves then no one else can.

However my vote is with the IPA. They just get on and do the job, without fuss or threatening strike action. They help new pilots get jobs and they continue to try and help pilots throughout their career. That in my opinion is worth much more than £11 per month.

I won't put Balpa Down, some people have benefitted from being a member of Balpa. But for those of you who put the IPA down, you really should think before you put your fingers on the keyboard. Many people have been helped by the IPA and it is partly due to the IPA that they are flying today!

If you want Decent Quality representation and don't want to pay the world for it, then join the IPA.

[LJ.543]

Yes, yes, very enigmatic Agent Oringe. You imply that you have inside knowledge of the workings of BALPA. However, looking at the threads you have started over the past 6 weeks or so, you are interested in the recruitment plans of Thomas Cook, First Choice, Monarch and DHL plus you have sought a partner to accompany you on a self sponsored A320 course. Absolutely nothing wrong with any of these BUT I'm afraid that these actions prove to me that you do not fit the profile of any of the current members of the BALPA NEC.

You made the statement that "There is far too much internal politics within the NEC at the moment". In light of the above, I am forced to repeat my opinion that your claim is very difficult to believe.

LJ

[Agent Oringe]

A careful review of some of my posts may well reveal where the information was gleaned from. And of course you are still entitled to believe what you wish.