Qf Hs-125 Vh-ece

[Critical Reynolds No]

Just spied a recent picture of the old lady rotting away at the Oaks on airliners.net.

Link here:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1112411/L/

How did she get to the oaks in the first place, when was she retired, what happened to the other HS-125's, did they have an exact replica of a 707 cockpit and any chance of restoration of ECE?

Tanks:(

[Feather #3]

Starting backwards;

- Buckleys

- Not exactly; it had the AH and Nav systems of the B707 [Collins FD108...ahh] plus a switch to reduce or cutout the rudder bias in the event of an engine failure to simulate the foot-force required on 3 or 2 engines in a B707. otherwise, it was as Hatfield designed her. Don't even ASK about the electrical system [see above answer!!:mad: ]

- Early 80's when simulation entirely replaced the need for S/O's to actually demonstrate they can fly an aircarft in the air.

- An ex-QF [may even have been current at the time] F/E bid at auction and won. As to what was included and the argy-bargy which followed, someone else can take up that drama.

Hope this helps a bit.

G'day ;)

[tinpis]

:uhoh: Why would anyone want to restore something that was no bloody good when it was new?

[Fris B. Fairing]

The other Qantas HS-125 VH-ECF was sold in the UK as G-BAXL. It was later re-registered G-OBOB but written-off in a crash near Columbia MO on 30 Jan 90.
I know of at least two museums which would be happy to preserve VH-ECE.
Regards

On second thoughts - three museums.

[Parrhresiastes]

Now they were the days.

We ordered a -4BRA could get it it on the AOC but couldn't get it past customs into the country, it was that two airline policy wot done it.

You could fly around all day in private or aerial work but you weren't allowed to operate it in charter.:rolleyes: :{

The good ole DCA had a pair of them for "navaid calibration" :\ .

And then when they were way past their use by date a certain enterprising used aircraft salesman of no fixed percentage (who went on to bigger things :rolleyes: in the airline business) painted one up and I think it was VH-CAO and sold it to some gormless hopeful bizjet owner for a motza. Can't remember his, the owners, name nor heard the conversations that must have resulted when he tried to operate it.

There was then as now one born every minute.:sad:

[Taildragger67]

Yup.

My old man wanted to import a Dakota in the '70s (when they were still plentiful and cheap) and do the odd charter but DCA or whatever it was then refused it, saying it was a 'commercial aircraft' with such capacity as could be used to compete with the incumbents.

Yup... a Dak competing Sydney - Melbourne against 727s... :ugh:

Here's VH-ECF: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0190708/M/

Cute little fing, innit??

[virgindriver]

Ahhh, just to complete Feather's story... A QF FE looked at the plane (which wasn't worth much anyway) and realised that he could make some money selling the flight director system, avionics etc as they were the same as the 707s.

After he bought the plane however, QF pulled everything out. The FE protested but was told tough luck. When he retired he took legal action and won. I understand the company had to pay compensation of some kind.

[Fris B. Fairing]

Here's a shot of the two aeroplanes together
VH-ECE and VH-ECF (http://www.adastra.adastron.com/projects/707/h1vhecf.htm)

[crocodile redundee]

I was lucky enough back in the 70's to be put thru a company course for both engine & airframe licences. Just in time for them both to be retired!!!! They used to be the best maintained 125's in the world!!!! Maintained regardless of cost!!!! Those were the days when Qantas actually spent money & maintained aeroplanes!!!!! Funny Hey!!!!! The company continued to pay the licence ratings even though the aircraft were retired. Sad to see ECE in such condition. At least the Air Cond inlet scoop (Leading edge at root of fin) is still blanked off!!!!!! Was the FE who bought it first name Dave???? They used to be excellent aircraft for LAMES to sleep in on night shift too!!!!! Ahhhh memories..........:8

[Chief galah]

VH-CAO's claim to fame is that the venerable DCA pilots of the day guts it at Avalon, even before the paint was dry.
There was another one about at the time operated by Tom the Cheap (honest injun) - VH-TOM
CG

[LookinDown]

Fris
PM me if you would like contact details for the owner.

[Fris B. Fairing]

Chief Galah
Here is a photo of VH-TOM (http://www.adastra.adastron.com/projects/707/h1vhtom.htm)

[Chief galah]

Thanks Fris,
Tom the Cheap - a grocery chain. How things have changed.
Others were Associated's G1 and G2.
As a fledgling enroute controller at the time, the few corporate jets like that used to give us headaches in the procedural control environment.
CG

[gaunty]

Guys now you've got me stonkered, I was around in them days and there was VH-TOM and VH-BBJ, Tom the Cheap and Bell Bros (Harry Baker? Bells came to there via Austers Cessna and yes Meta Sokol etc....)respectively and we couldn't get ours in to the country for charter use due Customs and that really dumb two airline policy, despite running all over MMAs DC3s and F27s with our Navajos and C402's.

The piccie of VH-TOM has me buffaloed, are you sure that is Perth Airport as the sawtooth industrial buildings to the rear dont look like anything I remember at Perth Airport?? the building in the foreground is familiar being standard DCA issue.??

Had a look at the Ad Astral website and Barclay Archbold = VH-TOM gets a mention, anybody know what happened to him?

[SeldomFixit]

Methinx the Onus would be on Graham to restore VH-ECE ( at least once upon an auction ). May have changed hands several times over since then. :ok:

[PLovett]

I remember seeing the QANTAS 125s while I was training at Cambridge. They would do and ILS to Hobart and a missed approach at the decision height. Lots of noise and and a climbing turn to intercept the course back to Sydney.

Heavy sigh from me and back to the mighty Cherokee 140. :oh: They seemed to be the height of sophistication and I have to admit that they did lead me to at least apply for a QANTAS cadetship.

[mustafagander]

Seldom, ECE is still owned by GDO. He has plans for the Oaks, but, as always, there is a problem with $$$$.

He must like HS125's - AFAIK he owned the black one at YSSY for a while.

[tinpis]

They were used for cadets to flog around in Feather#3?

BTW did anyone archive the Space Ace newsletters from the 70'S?

[Fris B. Fairing]

The piccie of VH-TOM has me buffaloed, are you sure that is Perth Airport as the sawtooth industrial buildings to the rear dont look like anything I remember at Perth Airport?? the building in the foreground is familiar being standard DCA issue.??
Gaunty
I checked with the photographer who was living in Perth at the time and he's certain it's Perth. He, in turn, checked with a fellow historian who has also lived in Perth and he confirms it's Poith.
Regards

[Philthy]

The good ole DCA had a pair of them for "navaid calibration"

Well, yes, the Department did own two HS125s, but not at the same time. Also, they were never fitted for navaid calibration. They were used for personnel transport, training, radar calibration and testing of instrument approaches and visual approach aids, among other things. The job of navaid calibration was really the province of the F27s and later F28s.

A history of VH-CAO can be found at http://www.airwaysmuseum.com

The second, VH-JFT, came oh so close to being written off on its ferry to the UK after being sold that it's not funny. But that's another story...

[gaunty]

Fris B. Fairing thanks mate, it was a long time ago and Perth Airport has changed a little.

I'll take a wander round tomorrow and see if I can place it although I think those particular buildings may bo longer be around.

We built an FBO at the Northern end in 1970 I think, which is now occupied or owned by Hawker Pacific, Ron McGrath has his operation there and there was nothing further North then so it might have been down the southern end near the MMA Hangars.

Philthy

Ahh yes if I recall it correctly that was a comedy that came sooo close to tragedy.:ugh: was that the one that "needed" to land at Telfer enroute to Pt Hedland from Melbourne??:} :{

[Philthy]

...was that the one that "needed" to land at Telfer enroute to Pt Hedland from Melbourne??

It was indeed.

[gaunty]

Your memory is probably better on it than mine as I'd forgotten all about it, the folks might enjoy the story??:D

Why they thought it would go non stop escapes me for the moment. :}

[Philthy]

I'll see if I can dig out the paperwork in the next few days. :8

[Led Zep]

gaunty,
This was taken in 1959. Look in the top right of the picture. (http://www.raafawa.org.au/wa/museum/mma/history/photogallery1/Perth-1959.jpg)
1968 (http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/RyePeter/5145L.jpg)
1969 (http://www.honeysucklecreek.net/images/ARIA_Nov_1969_Perth.jpg)
1970 (http://www.adastra.adastron.com/projects/707/h1vhtom.htm)
1972 (http://www.honeysucklecreek.net/images/other_stations/EC-135N_Perth_Feb72.jpg)
1973 (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0810192/L/)



If you can pick the taxyway in the 1969 shot, and assuming the EC-135 is parked in the same area 4 years later, you might be able to work out where VH-TOM is parked? The buildings don't quite match though - no windows in the 1973 shot. :bored:

I'm guessing that is Fauntleroy Ave. behind VH-TOM and it is parked about where PFC is today. Got me stuffed otherwise. :confused:

[Philthy]

Here are a couple of photos from Jeffri Goodali, the well-known Georgian Mafia Boss and Air Traffic Controller.

The first, c.1980, I have marked to show a couple of likely hangars:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/Philthy88/Perth-Airport-9.jpg

The second shows Baron VH-CFA in a similar position to VH-TOM in April 1971, definitely at Perth:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/Philthy88/Beech-55-CFA-PH-4.jpg

[SeldomFixit]

Now for the REAL test - who's driving VH-CFA in that pic ? :p :p

[Philthy]

Jeffri says the hangar belonged to Ansett Air Freight.

[gaunty]

Nah couldn't be Dick Jackson :} and I sure it wasn't Graeme Kessel, it'll come to me in a minite.

That std DCA type building must have become Ansett Flt Catering, that bigarse sawtooth hangar used to have a Mossie sitting quietly in the corner.

VH-TOM must be parked in front of where the Perth Flight Centre now stands.? Not sure

Was there this am but didn't get an opportunity to get airside to check, will do so and get back to you.

I do recall the EC135 and you can see the support Starlifter parked behind as part of the Apollo Moon shots, and who can forget the windows and house rattling as they bored over the top on their way out to the middle of the Indian Ocean for Comms.:ooh:

[Critical Reynolds No]

Everyone, thanks for your top responses. After many years of flying over the old girl, I now know a little of her history. I'll tip my wing next time I go past:ok:

I also look forward to the DCA HS-125 incident Philthy.

[3 Holer]

It's not Dick Jackson, the bloke is too good looking (sorry Dick). Maybe Hans Baumann ?

[BSD]

Cracking thread drift here! From QF HS-125's to pictures of an old CFS Baron outside Perth airport in the good old days!

Can't manage to get the picture blown up enough to enhance the pilot's face, but don't forget it might not have been a bloke.

Is it Sue Folks?

Continuing the thread drift, I don't recall the C135s departure from Perth, but I do remember, every Saturday afternoon around 2 pm, when a chap was crewing on a decent racing yacht out of Freshie bay, the SAA 707s departing.

They must have still been below 1500' as they went past the coast, spewing a humongous black cloud ( X 4 ) struggling to climb in the 40+ air, and making a din that still has my ears ringing now, 35 years later!

Happy days!

BSD.

[Erebus]

It's not Sue Folks, by April 1971 she and Max, and Alex McDonald were running another company.
I note that the small, metal chocks are in place at the nosewheel, so the aeroplane isn't going anywhere soon. It was common practice to warm the engines, then do the ignition and feather checks before taxying around to the front of the terminal to pick up the punters.
Or, it could be one of the engineers doing a ground run, so perhaps it's one of these chaps - John Parks, Ray Wild, George Jones, Terry Reid, Brian Payne, Peter Hutch, Mick O'Mullane, George blah the Irishman, Lindsay Harbord, Louie Peak, Reg Tutt, Bill Keenan, 2 guys in the propshop, Keith Bergraff and Roger someone, Richard Shorter, Ray Dickenson.
As a matter of interest, probably to nobody, I flew both CFA and ECE in my early days.

[BSD]

Erebus,

You are dead right. I hadn't spotted the 1971 reference, and Airwork Australia Pty. Ltd. was indeed in operation at that time.

BSD.

[Peter George]

Sorry to divert the thread back to its origin.. Surely an aircraft of this ilk deserves to be treated a little better. I first came across the plane in 1987 on a jaunt to the Oaks to pick up a load of firewood and low and behold a Qantas plane in rather an unusual place. Having now returned to Sydney after 18 years in Qld, I see its still there and in a state of neglect. My recollection of this plane was stirred on by the documentary recently on the return of the first Qantas 707. Subsequent surfing on the net has revealed pictures and a few anecdotes on the aircraft. Surely the HS125 could be put in a hanger or at least covered to protect what remains before hopefully ending up one day in Qantas Museum Longreach or somewhere else worthy. It would appear that the plane is being gutted for parts, but even if she won't fly again, ECE deserves a good home on static display. Peter

[Fris B. Fairing]

Peter
You are absolutely right. Unfortunately the fate of the aeroplane is in the hands of its owner (see post #15). If anyone has his ear, please encourage him to do the right thing before it's too late for anyone to save the aircraft. Pick a museum, any museum. I'm happy to advise.
Regards

[LeadSled]

Folks,

And for a little more:

Who remembers the CAGS on the -125 --- The Central Attention Getting System

I kid you not, that was the name, wot a wunnerful piece of English.

The -125 was the only aeroplane I have flown that weather-cocked out of wind in a crosswind - very disconcerting for pilots who normally flew real aeroplanes.

The Vipers had a disconcerting habit of developing an unrecoverable stall and rundown to a very low RPM, RR said impossible, can't happen, but it did, they took a lot of convincing that those colonials knew anything worth knowing.

The main gear up and down locks were a Heath Robinson nightmare (same bloke designed the electrics) but, Hey! No Problemo! we'll just put a long block of hardwood under a fairing down the guts, and extend a flap hinge either side with a little ski on it, to make a gear-up a non-event.

As DCA proved at Avalon, that didn't work, either.

Tootle pip!!

[Blue Sky Baron]

As the current owner of CFA it was a great surprise to see a pic of the girl on here. If you or anyone else has any other pics of her I'd love to get a copy.

She is currently (still) undergoing a serious refurbishment, and has been for the last 5 or so years. Progress has been limited by financial constraints but she should (I hope) be flying again later this year.

Sorry for the thread drift!

Thanks,

BSB:ok:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Gaunty, Philthy,

Check yr PM's pls...

:ok: :ok:

[gaunty]

BSB G'day:ok:

Yeah I remember her as a racy young girl and the youngsters who used to flirt with her. She could tell you a story or two. :E

Cameras of the day were pretty expensive as I recall either 35mm SLRs or Box Brownies and not much in between. And you had to wait a week or so to get a bunch of pics back from the developer, more than half of which weren't worth the powder with which to blow em up.

I'd be surprised if you couldn't get find a bucket load, just working out which box in the shed.

Nowadays edit as you go and more than you could look at in three lifetimes.:hmm:

Went and had another look today, the sawtooth and the low rise building behind are long gone. Back in the 60's the low rise was variously the old international/domestic terminal, the RACWA and Ansett Catering. The saw tooth building if I have it correctly housed variously, RACWA aircraft, Jimmy Woods' Anson for the Rotto run and a DH Mosquito that was purchased for a London to Sydney or the other way Air Race eventually becoming before it was demolished an Ansett?? freight depot??

And somewhre behind the yellow arrow is the Murchison Terminal, but I cant work out what the building to the north is.

Now if the Cocktail Bar of the Orbit Inne could talk, my God what stories it could tell.:E

[redsnail]

And this is what a new one looks like.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d143/reddo1/Atlantic%20crossing/CS-DRG.jpg

[tinpis]

Anyone know when the supply of left over Britten Norman lawnmower handles will run out?







http://www.beechcraft-balticum.com/baltic/images_baltic/800xp_cockpit_blank.jpg

[redsnail]

Hey Tinny, if it's good enough for the Concorde...

We've just ordered 60 HS-125-750's. :D By 2012, we should have well over 120 Hs-125 variants. (800XPC and 750XPC)

You'll also find similar ones on the Embraer 135/145. :ok:

[bentandtwisted]

And on the E170/190.

[Philthy]

Thread drift again, but per your request here's another shot of VH-CFA, also ex the Geoff Goodall collection. Dampier, WA, October 1971.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/Philthy88/Beech55CFADPR10.jpg