What Are My Chances ?

[Obbie]

Hi folks.

Looking for some information on the situation in Denmark ?

The better half is Danish and misses home. I am a airline pilot in Canada

with 6000 hours and ratings on the CRJ, B737-200, Falcon 100, Falcon 900.

I only speak English.

Is there any movement at all at SAS or anyone else in DK. And would they
even be interested in a english only pilot ?

I don't know the landscape very well for operators in that part of the world
and what the usuall hiring patterns are like.

Any info from those first hand, especially guys from SAS, would be most helpful.

Thanks in advance.

[Gnirren]

You can forget about SAS, they won't be hiring for a long time yet I think and even if the where you need to speak a scandinavian language. You might give Danish air transport a try but the salary will probably be a step down from what you make now.

[Cloud surfer]

If I were you, I'd take a lgood ook at Widerøe. It's owned by SAS, and operates from 5 bases in Norway on international and domestic routes.

The rostering (steady, never changing 7 days on / 7 days off), 9 weeks annual (paid) leave, and competetive salary makes it a lucrative employer, even if living in Denmark. Not sure of the numbers, but there are a lot of commuting Danes in the airline. The SAS / Star Alliance / ZED membership makes commuting on staff-travel a breeze.

Hiring has been good lately. Only clouds on the horizon seems to be the methods of sharing of the cake (routes) between the different SAS group airlines. And you're gonna need Danish.....

[PropsAreForBoats]

Yo Cloud Surfer

Hasn't Widerøe stopped recruiting? I thought they just cancelled a couple of courses?

[Crossunder]

No cancellations. Two new DH8Ds next year, to cover for the two DH8Cs leaving this autumn/winter.
But Obbie - you have a lot of options with your experience level:

Star Air of DK - B756
NetJets Europe (commuter friendly)
Norwegian (B733 DE captains accepted)

And what about all the majors, like Cathay/B.A./Virgin etc? Pretty commuter friendly as well. Easy and Ryanair + most similar cariers in the UK all accept DE captains, and a lot of Scandis commuting to UK/Germany!

...or you could wait it out until SAS hires again. In, like, 2090 or so...

[BestGlide]

If I were you, I'd take a lgood ook at Widerøe. It's owned by SAS, and operates from 5 bases in Norway on international and domestic routes.


....and you need to speak and understand one of the scandinavian languages...

[BestGlide]

No cancellations. Two new DH8Ds next year, to cover for the two DH8Cs leaving this autumn/winter.


From where do you have your information? Type course for new pilots in October is cancelled. No testing/interviews this autumn (one year since last time), and the holding pool is still holding a lot of people. Two new DH8D is just a roumer. They have not yet decided on anything.

[K. Soze]

If SAS were hiring you would only be required to learn one of the Scandinavian languages. See http://www.sasflightops.com for the correct requirements.
Stockholm, 2006
Due to the current situation in SAS a stop of pilot employment has been decided. Pilot applications are at this moment not accepted and the assessment process has been stopped. For those already registered the initial aviation psychological assessment will be postponed.
For any further information, please contact us through: [email protected]

Language Requirements
SAS has decided to remove the Scandinavian language requirement at the time of application.
Applications from pilots not fluent in a Scandinavian language will be registered as long as all other formal requirements are met, including EU citizenship and JAR license. Priority will be given to pilots with min. 3000 hours total flight time.
If accepted, a language program in Danish, Norwegian or Swedish would have to be completed (on SAS account).

[Crossunder]

Best Glide:

It's not a rumour, it's a fact. Decided on wednesday, but it will not be disclosed until next week. Not that it is a big secret, but there are a few things to sort out re the implications of this decision (crewing, changes to the number of daily services to different airports etc.) :) My info is absolutely 100% correct, but the old "if I tell you (my sources) - I'd have too kill you" applies on this one.

And the cotober course . maybe you're right - I'm not fully up-to-date on this it seems ;)

[PropsAreForBoats]

DHC8D? Is that a fancy name for a Snowplow-400 or a Snowplow-300? Or something else?

(Sorry for bringing this a little bit off topic, Obbie, but I think you have received some good advice already here - except that part about waiting out for SAS - it's really not worth it :ugh: )

[Gnirren]

Keep in mind that SAS where forced to get rid of some 300 pilots before and that if and when they start hiring again these pilots will be considered first, so in other words there could be a significant queue for "outsiders".

[Jetavia]

Obbie, I see you are rated on the CRJ, if you do not mind flying it again, you might want also to speak to Cimber Air (www.cimber.dk), they operate the CRJ and may expand the fleet to also include the larger CRJ700 in the future.

[captaink]

Instead of being

[Twin2040]

Hi - you could basicly work most places in Europe - pending on marrital status. Might be able to commute! In Denmark you can get a 12 months validation for your none JAR license. Air Alsie in Denmark has Falcon equipment.

[Crossunder]

PAFB:
DH8D is the official JAA/ICAO name for the DHC-8-400 (the name you use in your log book). DH8A/B/C/D for -100/-200/-300/-400. So now you know :-) Fortunately, WF is going to keep the log for us now, so no more log book for me... About bloody time too. I wonder how long it will take for the aviation industry (especially the JAA) to realise that log books are obsolete and totally irrelevant for any practical purpose :ugh:

[boeing737-700]

Hi Crossunder,

Allow me to ask, why are log books obsolete and totally irrelevant?
(I can agree that some sort of computerbased log would be as good or better than the current handwritten carry everywhere with you log book)

But as I am sure you know, so many things in aviation are based on your flying hours, and somehow you need to be able to prove the amount of hours that you have spent defying gravity.

Just think if you are going for a job interview and you need to show how many hours you have flown, and you may not want to tell your current employer about your job search, how would you do that?

I see your point if you are going to stay with WF for the rest of your career.

Regards, :ok:

[Crossunder]

By irrelevant I'm referring to what you just said. Why are flying hours considered sooo important? It's just an old tradition based on how aviation was 60 years ago. Let's say a company requires 1 500 hours for new-hires, of which 500 multi. The company seldom cares what you've done - C-172, F/A-18 carrier ops, bush flying or B737. Just looking at the number of hours really doesn't say much of a person's abilities as a pilot. Why nocan't I just just say "I've flown for Norwegian for two years". You know DY operates the B737CL, and roughly what kind of ops it involves. You'll just need proof you've worked for them, and that's it. Or; "I've just drifted around in G/A and FBOs for the past 6 years". Says just as much - if not more - about your background... Besides; log books are just too easy to tweak. :=
So - yes; you have to present your log book to a future employer. I'm just saying it shouldn't be like that, because I think total flight time isn't a good way to judge experience. E.g. I'd rather hire a Navy pilot with 800 hours carrier ops than a B747 pilot with 6 000 hours on the cruise... ;)

[PropsAreForBoats]

E.g. I'd rather hire a Navy pilot with 800 hours carrier ops than a B747 pilot with 6 000 hours on the cruise... ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MkOPCGYizQ

Are you sure about that?... ;)

[Cloud surfer]

Yes. Definitively sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh_shsRfXqk

(Howareyou?thingsfinedownthere?longtimenosee!Isntitabouttime weallgottogetherforareunionsoon?) ;)

[boeing737-700]

Hi Crossunder,

I´ll have to disagree with you..., Of course your logbook, as a whole, says something about you as a pilot. (This includes hours, aircraft types, flying environments, left seat/right seat etc.)

First of all the fact that you have been employed by a particular company, which may have several aircraft types, does not say anything about your experience or lack thereof. You may have flown 350 hours a year on a small jet/turboprop on domestic routes or you may have flown 800 hours a year on medium to heavy jets on medium to long-haul routes.

I am convinced that total hours count towards experience (there may be the odd exception of course).

Take as an example some of the low cost carriers, where you can join as direct entry Captain. It is obvious that the companies want to see if you have prior command time and on which type, if you have 5000 hours on type in an airline environment or maybe 1000 hours on c-152 doing scenic flights. (The fact that you have been in aviation for say 10 years does not say anything about you)

And finally, I see it first hand everyday, there is a difference between pilots who have flown say 500 hours on the B737 as opposed to 5000 hours on the same aircraft.

I agree that you can be a very good low hour pilot, and you can be a lousy high hour pilot. But in general it takes quite a few flying hours to be an experienced pilot.

Just my point of view.;)

[Trolle]

Hey Obbie,

Before you start worrying about where you can start flying in Denmark, I would suggest you confirm your right-to-work in Denmark. Denmark has become infamous for not allowing non-EU citizens a residence permit, let alone a work permit. And being married to a Dane is not enough! My own personal experience is that my wife is from the 10 "new" EU countries and they are not even granted a residence or work permit in Denmark.

Maybe someone else in a similar situation has more personal experience to add. Get your wife to talk to Udlænding Styrelsen first.

Maybe Norway and Sweden would more sympathetic.

By the way, this is no way the beginning of a thread concerning politics! Religous and political debates do not belong in the cockpit or the forums.

[Obbie]

Thank you to everyone for your replys !!!!!!

Great info !!!

I came across a airline called Sterling. Can anyone add to this company.

They appear to be Denmark based.

[PropsAreForBoats]

Sterling is a can of worms, they merged with Maersk not long ago. The ensuing seniority battle between the two pilot groups has been rather ugly, including law suits. Even worse than the SAS/Braathens soap opera. I'm unsure whether they have any recruitment plans or not, you can find more info on the forum here:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227886

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213136


Cloud Surfer: Life is good in the south, u still on that snow-collecting island in the north? Reunion? Can't get enough of those - anytime, anywhere! :)

[Crossunder]

boeing737-700:

I agree that experience counts, but I cannot see why we need a log book to "prove" our so-called experience? Too easy to fake a log book. If you've flown long haul for three years, then you have done just that. Who cares if it means 2000 or 3000 hours?

CS & PAFB: reunions are daaangerous. ;)

[boeing737-700]

Hi Obbie,
I didn't mean to take this thread away from your original topic, sorry.

PAFB is right, Sterling is a can of worms..., but rumour has it, they are looking at employing 60 something pilots early next year. (info from Sterling instructors, though I can't see it happening, at least not that many pilots.)

They would probably also require you to buy a 737NG typerating from them at a cost of approx. 220.000,- dkr.(USD 37.300,- Euros 29.500,- GBP 20.000,- this is not a bond, it is to be paid upfront) that was this years price, I'm sure it will be more expensive next year, then you have to add the 6 touch and goes on top of that.

I agree with Crossunder, Twin2040 and others, why not look at some of the airlines in the UK, there is a huge demand at the moment, the pay is a lot better than Sterlings. (Better to be paid in Sterling than by Sterling;) )and there is no language barrier. It does mean that you will have to commute, but that is how many many Scandinavians work these days.

Trolle may also have a point, depending on your circumstances, Denmark may not grant you a workpermit straight away.

Good luck with your job search though, I hope things work out for you and the missus.

Best regards,

N.B. Why not try Air Alsie at www.alsie.com (http://www.alsie.com) look under jobs.
They were looking for pilots not that long ago, although their website, does not say that they are recruiting now.
Give the chief pilot a call, or send him an e-mail.
They operate very nice biz-jets, info. found at their website which is in english.
Also not a problem that you don't speak danish, this I now for a fact.
You would have to live fairly close (60 to 90 mins., my own guesstimate) to the city of Sønderborg though, which is in the
south of Denmark. (Nice area)

[viking737]

u still on that snow-collecting island in the north?
Which island is that?
Could it me my home town Tromso?

[Cloud surfer]

That would be the one.

PAFB: Sitting, but the level of comfort is inversely proportional to the number of R's in the months name. Let me see if I can't organize something over the new year.. I got a feeling it won't be a tough sell.

[viking737]

So u should be seeing some snow in a couple of weeks.......