Excel Airways

[RaTa]

I am considering putting an application into Excelairways after seeing their advert in Flight. I don't know anyone there and would like to know what is the general feel about the company, and what sort of salary would you be on as a 767 Captain?

I would understand if you did not want to put this information out to the general public, however I would appreciate a PM.

Thanks!

[Superfly]

Hello RaTa,

I do not work myself for Excel but I have a friend who does. This is not the rosiest picture you can dream of apparently. He is on the 756 fleet. Since he joined them he's been complaining of poor rostering practise and sheer instability (frequently being called during his days off to come to work / constant roster change .....). He's been there for two summers now and it's gone from bad to worse :sad: . He told me that morale is very low and people are living "en masse"; among them are a LOT of trainers. Hence the wording in the ad ; "preference will be given to type rated pilots particularly those with training qualifications". A bit of hope though : Mission control in Iceland has recently sacked a numbers of UK based managers because of their many cock-ups. So hopefully the situation is going to improve in the not too distance future.

I have personally NOTHING against Excel nor am I connected to them in ANY way. All I know is that my friend has handed over his resignation and is a MUCH happier chap now.

[captjns]

Excel still doing joint work with Miami Air?

[Wig Wag]

I have heard much the same story; someone known to me is going to quit. It's awful apparently.

Some of these seedy little airlines can put you off the game entirely.:}

[saddest aviator]

If Excel Airways last the winter in its current form I would be very suprised. I have a close friend who is so close to resignation one last push is all that it will take. I dont work for them thank god but talking at length to him over a few beers he paints a very sad story.
The 76/75 fleets are old and therefore require high maintenance input.
The 737 pilots who make up the management want to rewrite the boeing book on how to do etops, consider that all the 75/76 crews are basically cowboys who have to be brought back into line and made professional aviators.
The crewing department lack experience and spend most of their time firefighting
The blame culture is highly developed, read from that what you will.
The pilot management completely lacks any direction and any sort of leadership skill what ever.
As a pilot who once worked for a similar organization I could only advise my friend to get out before the whole organization implodes.
I HOPE HE HEEDS MY ADVICE:\

[bushbolox]

If Excel Airways last the winter in its current form I would be very suprised. I have a close friend who is so close to resignation one last push is all that it will take. I dont work for them thank god but talking at length to him over a few beers he paints a very sad story.
The 76/75 fleets are old and therefore require high maintenance input.
The 737 pilots who make up the management want to rewrite the boeing book on how to do etops, consider that all the 75/76 crews are basically cowboys who have to be brought back into line and made professional aviators.
The crewing department lack experience and spend most of their time firefighting
The blame culture is highly developed, read from that what you will.
The pilot management completely lacks any direction and any sort of leadership skill what ever.
As a pilot who once worked for a similar organization I could only advise my friend to get out before the whole organization implodes.
I HOPE HE HEEDS MY ADVICE:\

Harsh words and still heresay. I feel the need to redress the balance somewhat.

I recently left xl for resons other than the above.
True the 756 are a pile of sh1te. That is one of the root causes of roster instability .
SOME of the 756 crews refuse to operate to sop. They know better..."when I was in etc etc etc." Know all prima donnas who struggle to conform to any reasonable request, and insome cases down right in breach of the ano as enshrined in the ops manual.....because they know better. All of this came from AAE not Excel. A vocal minority from that comapny seem oblivious to the fact that the gripes mentioned above are all directly linked to the problems that were basically AAE. The I will resign gang are in many cases are the same " when I was at Britannia" type. Well why arent you stil there.?Were they wrong too?

To cut it short(ish)... Most of the problems mentioned above at excel are inherited and as one who was their from the begining they are directly proportionate to the increase in inolvemnent of the frankenstein AAE. There are many good people from both companies at excel but a vocal minority of itinerant job hoppers on all fleets paint a bleak picture. There are problems , this year was pretty bad , no arguement there, however o those of you thinking of joining the original ethos is still there just swamped by a bunch of gippos (vocal minority) who believe their pathetic resignation threats or indeed acts are a worthy bargaining tool. Wake up call fellahs its a godsend to HR. There are many a less bitter and twisted candidate out there than the alleged hard done to friends. A bit of fresh blood to dilute the whinging AAE transient knowalls will do XL the world of good.
I aplogise unreservedly to those at XL (ex aae) who are trying to make it work. Like I said vocal minority.
PS I wasnt management just a line pilot.Gone on to different things

[TFR]

I recently worked there and I can confirm that it’s much worse than the above posters imply.
This company is shocking. The long term planning horizon is the next 12 hours. Aircraft and crew are rostered using the legal limits for planning purposes so as soon as ANY aspect of the operation doesn’t run exactly to schedule – it’s chaos.

Flight crew are treated with contempt – cabin crew with total contempt.

The roster is a useless document – rarely issued more than 4-5 days before the end of the month and irrelevant anyway because you are regarded as available every day. You’re also assumed to be permanently logged on to Email – roster changes are notified to you this way (except on the day itself). So if you get up at 0400 for a 0600 duty having gone to bed early, it might have been changed overnight (by Email) to a 1400 start without you knowing about it - or more likely vice versa! Expect to be called on your days off and expect changes to at least 80% of your duties – frequently changes of > 6 hours to a duty start/end time at very short notice – i.e. disrupting your planned rest – assuming you ever managed to plan it.
Cabin crew are subject to disciplinary action if they refuse to work a day off (for which they receive no compensation) without a good reason – being a rostered day off doesn’t count as a good reason. The systems supporting crewing seem to be hopeless – don’t be surprised if they ring you thinking you’re on a different Continent. Also be aware that retrospective roster changes will be made to make it legal for you to work e.g. you had 2 days standby last week but weren’t called? – we’ll change them to days off to make the duty we want to give you legal.

As others have mentioned, the aircraft are old and tired and insufficient account of this is taken when planning. The 5 767s have 4 different flight deck layouts/configurations since they were originally built for different customers. Naturally, the 757/767 fleet has all 3 different airframe/engine combinations.
If you decide to work there, check the aircraft’s legal docs before departure VERY carefully. The FMSs have no pre-stored routes and no SIDS/STARS/Approaches for any airfield except LGW/MAN. Some destination airfields aren’t even in the FMS.
Don’t forget to brush up your manual load sheet technique either – you’ll also need it everywhere except LGW/MAN.
Trivial perhaps to all you super aces (!) out there but all the “low level hassle” (and there is plenty more – see above) makes the job much more wearying than it needs to be.

Positives – yes there are some – your colleagues (flight and cabin), genuinely mixed 757/767 long and short haul flying (none of this bo**ocks of rostering the 767s by seniority for example – but then they’re too disorganized to manage that!), there’s a good cross section by background/age of very experienced and knowledgeable flight crew who will have lots of useful tips for you. The people who prepare the FPL/Notam/Wx paperwork for you pre-departure have the patience of Saints.

You’ll have to decide for yourself if you want to go there (which of course is tricky without taking the risk of going there and seeing for yourself), it all depends on your personal situation and experience but keep in mind that there are plenty of 757/767 jobs out there at the moment – but be quick because Excel people are filling them as fast as you can read this !! If you’re already in one you’d be very ill advised to quit to go to Excel.

The particularly demoralising thing is that there’s no hint of improvement – indeed, no hint that the “management” recognise that there’s a problem. Hopefully, the trickle of departures turning into a flood will disabuse them of their complacency but as ever, by then it’ll be too late.

Re Saddest’s post about the 737 people – Excel has actually taken over Air Atlanta Europe and there are some particularly unpleasant Excel folks who think they are God and the ex-AAE 757/767 people are untermenschen spoiling their cosy little world on the 737 fleet – something the substantial body of BA retirees with their ACTUAL experience of ETOPS (and years of long haul experience on other types) are not particularly impressed by.
All in all, this is a nasty mean spirited company where flight and cabin crew are regarded by the (invisible) “management” as a problem obstructing the smooth operation of their airline.

To be avoided.

PS Oooops forgot to answer the original question. 757/767 (you won’t be 767 only) captains get GBP65,000 plus GBP2.28 per hour from check-in at base to check-out back at base. No (more) over 60s.

[Captain Greaser]

I believe there setting up a base in Dublin.From the comments and descriptions of the constant chaos in the airline they seem pretty similar to the outfit I already work for.Will there ever be a descent airline set up in Ireland!!!!Does anybody know there plan for Ireland?

[RaTa]

Thanks everyone.

Well I would have to say that the replies (except one) have not been too encouraging so far. I meet all the criteria and since I've been with my airline for quite a few years and in general I'm not unhappy with them, I was thinking I needed a bit of a change to blow the cobbwebs away.........perhaps just not that much of a change.

Thanks again!

[Daft Wader]

Hello
I would like to point out that there are many people in all departments working extremly hard to try and turn the corner at XL, a company that is evolving from a complicated background.When you merge the different cultures of AAI and XL there are bound to be clashes,both of operational ideas and more likely as some of the above posts show personalities.
We are all fully aware of the disruption and the difficulties that this then presents to crew, that situations that we face are the result of decisions not made by the guys and gals in ops , crewing etc , they just have the thanksless task of pushing pi*s up hill.
I believe that many guys on the 757 / 767 are on their toes to Flyglobespan, will it be any better there ? You might find some family connections in the senior management there , perhaps a case of same sh*t different colour ? Surely they suffer from delays and tech aircraft ?
Many of the crew appear to be relatively happy , we have many guys that are getting good hours ,flying modern equipment ( B737NG) , progressing up the ladder.And a lot of the guys of the B757 / B767 seem to be content as well.
As for rosters arriving with only 4- 5 days notice , I can think of one only one occasion when this was the case ,and due to some huge disruption to the flying programme,and I think it was actually 7 days.
At any company there will be a percentage of crew who are not happy,that is my own personal experience ,and they are always about to leave to go to VS, Ba or EK,for vast somes of money but in general they never do.
To answer the original question ,why not apply to XL ,things are changing ,too slowly for some but definatly for the better.
May the farce be with you
Daft Wader
:D

ps sorry for any poor speeling and gramma I didnt go to skool.

[crundale]

FlyGlobeSpan is an interesting case... XL's Queen of Crewing went there earlier this year, and within a week they sent an email asking for their job back as they could not believe how disorganised and chaotic it was there...
Think the Wader is right - the charter industry is by its very nature a constant state of flux and flummox. And i for one love it, and i love working at XL! (and yes, i was at BA before this so have something sane to compare it against).
:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:
:ouch:

[Riker]

How's life on the 747 fleet (Travel City Direct)? Similarly bad or more stable?

[Phileas Fogg]

RaTa,
If you are thinking of putting in an application then it might be useful to remember that their identity is 'Excel' and 'Airways' (two seperate words) and not 'Excelairways' without even a capital 'A' :)

[Riker]

Don't get me started...:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Care to elaborate for those who are not familiar? I would think flying the 747 would be a good opportunity and offer a good long-haul lifestyle... No doubt the pay is crapp but that wouldn't surprise me.. Perhaps you could add some details. Are newhires even eligible for the 747 or are those filled by internal transfers?

Cheers

[RaTa]

Phileas Fogg

Thanks for the tip, having just checked their advert again it is two words.

However perhaps they should be a bit more consistent. Since I work overseas and I'm not familiar with the airline, I used the header of their advert which is one word, a reasonable thing to do, but they do have it at the bottom of the advert as two words.

[bakerloo]

Hi Guys
What is the take home pay per month for a Capt on the 737 buses.
Cheers

[Marvo]

And I have an interview coming up for F/O on the 73NG. Can anyone give me a clue as to take home pay for an F/O and the roster pattern etc? have tried ppjn but its not that informative. Many thanks in advance.:hmm:

[NG708]

Yes, some feedback from the 737 crews would be good! Any 737 F/O's like to comment on lifestyle, pay, etc?

[bushbolox]

Yes, some feedback from the 737 crews would be good! Any 737 F/O's like to comment on lifestyle, pay, etc?

Reasonable amount of beer tokens, a free anr headset, second choice on the hosties, oops i mean crew food, and free cardio health care walking to and from the man crew room.Erm thats it. Oh and the mangamnet know your first name and you theirs.....priceless.
Despite some of the anti xl people , life isnt too bad on the 737 fleet. As one young man put it, ...New jet , interesting flying to the islands, easy going colleagues and constructive sim (ie not an ex raf chop house) , mostly, and getting paid as well.
rosters have been a bit dodgy, but about 2500 to 2800 take home for average (three bar typed) f/o before flight pay, loss of licence,pension, 2.28 per hr fp, and all of the above. No different problems than any other charter operator, it just seems to affect some more than others.But then Ive found they are usually the same types that seem to have worked for everyone.
Cheers. I had a ball. The desert is calling

[threestable]

Bushbolox,
I hope your time in the sandpit will bring you to a level of maturity that time at previous employers has obviously not. Your comments paint a picture of an opinionated unreasonable individual to say the least. Post merger Excel, whatever trials and tribulations lay ahead can only be grateful for your departure, as you obviously had nothing positive to bring to your amalgamated FELLOW employees.
Good luck, hope you find some happiness with your new peer group.:hmm:Our loss is obviously their gain.
Back to the point, yes times can be frustrating at Excel, I've worked for worse,.. and better. Transitional phase that could go either way. Been around long enough not to expect valhalla with any employer. Rostering can be frustrating, due more people required to cope with a constant expansion (and natural attrition) over the three years that I have worked there. The people that you work with make up for it though, (with the odd exception, who will generally leave!) across all fleets in the main. Good mix of long and short haul 75/76. Money average. Sociable times downroute.
Slainte.

[bushbolox]

Threestable.
I assume you're refering to my first post on this thread. You obviouly missed the words "some, vocal minority" etc used .

If you choose to ignore those qualifying words or lump yourself in the MINORITY then so be it.I have (had) no problem with my new colleagues except for the examples given. You may have found my opinion irreverent or immature but it is a mostly acuurate summary of some issues.
Hope you have as good a time as I did if you stay at excel.

edited: Threestable , you are correct it wasnt appropiate , I have removed it. But surely if you cant be bothered to respond, then dont.You are however quite clearly as patronising as I am allegedy immature, so maybe you couldnt resist.Nothing thin about the ice though.

Saddest Aviator, as has been pointed out it wasnt really relevant to the thread, however my intentions in the original post that started this were to counter the anti XL views that were not my experience, but did mirror the attitudes of the minority mentioned.
Enough said

[saddest aviator]

Dear Bushbolox
"The chap recently departed for his selfish posturing and refusal of reasonable requests to operate messing up 400 peoples holidays was a personification of those issues. His other blatent,dangerous disregard for SOPs werent even addressed as he was booted out before that trial, so many incidents to choose from."

Intersted to know bushbolox what were these blatent dangerous disregards for SOP's that you speak of with such knowledge. The person concerned should have been fired from any company.Obviously a flight safety hazard.
Me thinks however you miss the main thrust of the posts.

[threestable]

I rest my case. Haven't got the effort to respond to Bushboloxs latest offerings except to warn that the ice that he has chosen to venture on is getting very thin indeed. Do uninformed personal attacks offer any useful advice to pilots considering employment? Mods?
Hope the original poster, finds what they want. Good Luck.:ok:

[RaTa]

threestable...........thanks for the good wishes.:)

[Skinsflyer]

I have an interview coming up with excel, not part of the OAT sponsorship, and I wondered if anyone could help as to what to expect in the interview i.e. questions, is there a tech assessment etc etc.

For the 737 this is. Can't find this info anywhere else.

[Bleedair]

Try to relax and be yourself and it shouldn't be a problem. :uhoh:
Good luck! :ok:

PM me if you like..

[747 Downind]

Any 1 got any info. on the interview @ XL, have one coming up soon 4 B738 F/O?

Be interesting 2 know what the basic is for 738 F/O if anybody has any info. If successful it would be for a permanent contract with the company. Any info most appreciated.

Current on type with c.600/700 on B737, mostly NG time

Thanks in advance:ok:

[king monkey]

skinsflyer, not oat connected? does this suggest that you're not type rated?

hours and expierence would be appreiciated, to give a heads up for all.

cheers!

[wingbar]

Yes that would be very useful, PM me if you prefere!

WB:ok:

[The Real Slim Shady]

Bushbolox

ie not an ex raf chop house

Obviously you weren't up to RAF standards:rolleyes:

[omnidirectional737]

year 1 basic f/o salary for unfrozen ATPL is £42,210 plus £2.28per hour tax free duty pay. From 1/5/07 this will be £43,434. Unfrozen ATPL £35,350. 1/5/07 £36,375.

Year 2 currently £43,101 next year £44,351. The annual increments are currently about £900 this is before any future pay rises.

There is normally the opportunity to work days off in the summer and for this you get £375 + day off in lieu.

Hope this helps.

[747 Downind]

Yes most helpful thanks omnidirctional737 that is helpful.. day off pay is generous.

Is there many night stops in the u.k, just the base offers are LGW, MAN and BRS whilst sources indicate airline flies from NCL, EMA, BHX, CWL, HUY, STN and Belfast! I always find UK night stops a laugh with the right crew although some people hate them!

Many theanks for the reply

[omnidirectional737]

Yeah there are a fair few UK night stops. This year they have been GLA, BHX, MAN, BRS and HUY. NCL is operated by Islandsflug CWL by Canadians or Americans I think and EMA by the Greeks. But I have heard that HUY is not happening next year so I guess everything else can change aswell.

Most night stops are good with crews that are up for it so you will definately enjoy yourself.:}

[bushbolox]

Slim, so predictable, and so unoriginal, you must be ex RAF:}

[747 Downind]

Excellent:E

If I do get through, I look forward to some good night stops.
I use to admire SOME of the XL hosties on the crew bus on the way into Concorde House, I do hope they still recruit a decent % easy on the eye;)

Many thx for the reply, I am really looking forward to the interview irrespective of the outcome (there appears to be no gremlins.. straight forward interview perhaps with some tech, personal and crm stuff???)

[Skinsflyer]

I am type-rated on the 737-3/900 but I only have 400 hours on type. Total time 600 hours.

[omnidirectional737]

I Don't know any specific info but the management pilots are ok, so I don't think they will be trying to catch you out.

[endofeng]

Does anyone know if Excel do a bond scheme?

cheers

-------------
endofeng:ok:

[endofeng]

I have applied to Excel via their email ie [email protected] ....

I have 1400hrsTT + 1200TP, what are my chances???(not heard anything yet)

I am also willing to pay a bond! Do they have a bond scheme?

Cheers

---------------
endofeng:ok:

[B737NG]

See here we are ! Despite the warnings what situation you can expect someone is allways willing to contribute for his "better" future and support such outfits. Not to blame him if he is jobless but leave a position you have? Think twice before you often change the bad for the worse. Consider where you spent your best hard earned money for. Too many cases in the past where pilots lost it all and gained nothing except the debt on the account. The passion to aviate makes a lot of us blindfolded and jump into trapps, be aware amd take MASTER CAUTIONS here seriously, you would in the "seat" for shure, why not in life?

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[wingbar]

Thank you for that info :ok:

[NG708]

Most of these negative comments seem to refer to the 757/767 fleet, the one merged from Air Atlanta, and those that have come with it.

As most of us here are really interested in the 737 fleet, as that was what the advert was for, probably as we are already rated with time on type, could some of the 737 pilots comment on what has been said.

Is the roster on the 737 unstable? Are people very unhappy or is it as one or two here have said, a minority of contractors?

On the plus side I understand there's some good varied flying to be had, a decent salary - and I am not comparing to the like of RYR here but to other loco 2 sector operators - and probably a very quiet winter. For those who don't want to fly the 757's, would this be so bad?

[scroggs]

I am type-rated on the 737-3/900 but I only have 400 hours on type. Total time 600 hours.

Then you are presumably currently employed and thus in the wrong forum. This topic will be moved to the correct forum.

Scroggs

[fxbat]

My .02$
Excel is a good company. The line Cap’s I have flown with (management included) were more than helpful no attitudes just normal people going to work. There are a couple of wieners but the majority are very relaxed and easy to get a long with. The trips are mostly good. (excluding sharm, and all night ter)
I have made the effort to introduce myself to the 75/76 crews and they have been nothing like some of the posts would have you believe. There worse. No just joking there grate. one crew even gave me a tour of the mighty 76. I only got nervous when he kept calling me Timmy and asked if I liked gladiator movies.:)
The only real problem I have is scheduling, 100 in 28 is a goal. We are short captains and fo’s so they make everyone pick up the slack. They don’t relies it just burns more out and we keep getting shorter and those that are left have to carry the load. The thought process is to hire full time so this doesn’t happen again next year and I hope it works.
This link is accurate for pay scales and contact info: http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/factfile.php?id=0erx072ee9uqrqqns7xwzhymhxq03ptrr7bf33h521gg cusvrhe



Excel still doing joint work with Miami Air?


Yes, But it is not Excel crews, they send storm contractors that have green cards or the right to work in the US. I have asked about it and a lot of people don’t think it is fair on both sides of the pond. I think BALPA is looking into making some changes.

[omnidirectional737]

Rosters change sometimes, but as I have said before your days off don't unless you want to sell them to the company. So does it matter if your going to RHO or SMI or where ever.

I think it is true that the skippers are flying flat out but I only have 55 hours on my roster this month about 60 last and 70 July and August, so I don't think that is to much, and I expect the winter will be very quiet.

[NG708]

Thanks Omni.

Anyone know about the finer points - Pension, medical, insurance etc?

Is there anything offered for staff travel?

[ALCHPA]

I am considering putting an application into Excelairways after seeing their advert in Flight. I don't know anyone there and would like to know what is the general feel about the company, and what sort of salary would you be on as a 767 Captain?
I would understand if you did not want to put this information out to the general public, however I would appreciate a PM.
Thanks!

Excel Airways Fleet:
-01 Boeing 737-400
-12 Boeing 737-800 + 04 In 2007
-04 Boeing 757-200
-O5 Boeing 767-300
I only have those information but as you I am considering putting an application into Excelairways. I don't know anyone there and would like to know what is the general feel about the company, and what sort of salary would you be on as a 737 Captain?
I would appreciate somes informations.
Best regards,
ALCHPA

[747 Downind]

Any1 heard any news bout LGW, I understand some have been offered places at MAN. Was just wondering whether any1 had been offered employment (or informed otherwise) specifically at LGW on the 737?

Thanks in advance:)

[Pilot Pete]

Latest;

XL Leisure Group sold in £237m MBO
30 Oct 2006
Icelandic conglomerate Avion Group has sold XL Leisure Group for $450m (£237m) to a buy-out vehicle led by current CEO Phillip Wyatt.

XL Leisure Group comprises Excel Airways Group in the UK, Star Airlines in France and Star Europe in Germany.
Excel brands in the UK include XL.com, Travel City Direct, Kosmar, Excel Holidays, Aspire and Freedom Flights. It is the fifth largest travel group in the UK with a combined ATOL requirement of 1.1m to Sept07.


Could this make a difference..............?

PP

[Donkey Duke]

Pete,

The XL group includes the Travel City Direct 743s? Does anyone know anything about that company, and flying for them? I think they fly from MAN and LGW to Sanford?

-Cheers mates!

[Marvo]

Like you 747, I am still waiting to hear ...I also want the 737 at LGW. Fingers crossed for the pair of us! The drive to STN is killing me.

[Oggy Oggy]

Marvo and 747,
I'm still waiting to hear also re:737 but no news. I've tried a follow up but no replies. Did they give you any idea of when you might hear? They seemed a nice bunch when I met them so my fingers are firmly crossed. Good luck to you anyway.
Oggy

[Marvo]

Oggy,

They said it would be a while ! No rush I suppose, the summer season is a long way off.:rolleyes:

[747 Downind]

Was supposed to be last week possibly running into this week. I imagine it will run into next week at the very least. Still working out how many guys they need for next year.

Playing the waiting game now, can't be too many of us (well 3 on this forum so far). All the best when the decision does come marvo+ oggy oggy

[Marvo]

Time is up.....said yes to Easy this morning ! Start an Airbus course in Feb, Hopefully based at Gatwick... good luck to oggy, downwind etc!

[747 Downind]

All the best Marvo, I too have started to look down other avenues, however, company I am with still have failed to expand at my base. If they do ever offer me a place??? I may well see you on the crew bus rushing to X car park, how I miss the those days:confused:

All the best at Easy.. hope the A319 is as rewardable to fly as the mighty 737! I've heard it's a nice base there

74 Downind:ok:

[saddest aviator]

I think it is rather sad news that the Avion Group has sold its part of the Excel group and associated companies. Please be very aware that the reason that the Avion Group got so involved in the first place was it took shares in lieu of payment for the use of its B767's for a summer season that I believe cost 40 % and next year another 40%...... Excel is not what one would call a very profitable company. With the present management I have my doubts as to its viability. Perhaps someone with more info might like to comment. £250 mil seems to be a great price for the Avion Group shareholders to rid themselves of a real dead duck

[abra]

Although I am no great city buff,I get the same feeling as Saddest.This MBO was a coup for Avion,even if it only gets them out of the business with some of their money intact.The buy out team's financing is heavily underwritten by Avion(who have now changed their name to something a bit more Icelandic;Hlutafelagid Eimskipafelag Islands).The 2006-7 winter operations are underscored by Avion too.It all comes to an end in March 2008 when the thing must stand up financially by itself.This will be about the same time new A330s are due to arrive,with all the attendant investment and costs to get that fleet going.More recent management structure changes,Eamonn Mullaney's retirement(nice timing Mr M!), rebranding,ongoing problems with an ageing 757 and 767 fleet,morale problems in both the flight and head office workforce and a rarely seen distant leadership all suggest some serious challenges to pull the thing off.I wish them luck.

[michaelknight]

What's happened to the Chief Pilot? I see there's an advert out looking to fill the position.

MK

[A and C]

He is now the flight opps director.

[abra]

Let's hope someone told the CAA!

[Farty Flaps]

Abra,

Your first post may have some credibility until you read your second .Do you honestly think the CAA wouldnt be informed of a change of post holder. Shows a distinct immaturity or ignorance of how the regulatory system or the industry operates.:rolleyes:

Now back to your first post, maybe as you say avion have a vested interest until 2008., or maybe its a maneuvere to avoid regulatory problems with the size and scope of avion interests in the eu. But then Im speculating as are you.
Poor morale? amongst some, dare I say the usual suspects. The core workforce ( no movement despite a bouyant market) is pretty happy.Lots of issues with the merger, and a previous culture of temp pilots with all the problems of loyalty that brings,but it will settle down as the chaps mentioned above move on to moan at another company. To harp on about how things should be done and how at xxxxxairways it was much better..etc etc...ad nauseum.:ok:

Same Sh1t different depth.

[abra]

Mr Farty,
You must work for them as you have obviously taken my comments too personally.Yes I probably am immature and ignorant but I can see no 'harping on' about how things were done in xxxxxairways(isn't it called XL.COM now?)in my posting.I even wished the MBO enterprise luck.RTFQ as they say!
But to answer your 'points'.
This is a rumour network.The XL crew members I was with yesterday suggested the rumour of the CAA omission.I have little doubt that if true,it would have been rapidly addressed by the more mature and intelligent.
A UK led MBO of part of an Icelandic owned European based company would only require aviation authority approval in each of the AOC awarding countries.The CAA in this country would need to approve the financial governance arranged by the MBO team.Size and Scope(good words Mr Farty) are not changed in this instance,unlike MyTravel's move on some First Choice business announced today.Therefore there would be little to interest the competition commisioners by the change in ownership.
At least we agree about poor morale,even if you reckon you can see the problem resolving itself.Of course the modus operandi of Excel up to now has been to have a core of pretty happy loyal pilots(let's call them the Excelites..I guess that would be you Mr M) and to bring in seasonal contract disloyal crews as and when required(lets call them the er..AAEites).Loyalty is a two way affair.I have been told that most of the people leaving are doing so because of chaotic crew rostering.According to the chaps yesterday,the 737 has always had a more stable time than the 757 and 767.This has mainly been the result of difficulty finding 757/767 crews qualified to fly both types,on different AOC's,with different SOPs, ETOPS checked,and strip ASI checked for one of the odd 767s.This presented a tough assignment for even the most experienced of crewing managers. But of the mixed bunch yesterday,only one had thought of leaving(to easy).He had then thought better of it.
All the above is title tatle Mr Farty.I still maintain that XL.COM will need to overcome many challenges in the next 18 months or so to succeed.Making a buck will be the key.I still wish them luck,don't you?
PS MANOEUVRE one hundred times by tomorrow morning please..don't want to look ignorant do we!

[Farty Flaps]

oooo get you.:ok:

[Oggy Oggy]

Well done Marvo and good luck.
Anyone elso out there with any reliable information on what the company situation is at the moment would be much appreciated. Not interested in the politics as such but whether XL are actually recruiting any of the guys that have been to interview last month. What is their future plan etc.
Regards

[747 Downind]

No news yet Oggy, any1 else heard anything? Maybe there planning the recruitment for the summer now.. or not at all :uhoh:

Who knows?? ... well XL management obviously:O

Best of luck when.. IF the decision comes

[747 Downind]

Has any1 heard anything from xl (tried calling put no conclusive answers)

Congrats for those who got offered BRS and MAN.. any news on LGW for any1??