TB10/20 - What are they like, and where can I find one??

[Whizzwheel]

So...anyone flown a TB10 or TB20? Curious to know what they're like to fly, how they perform and if there are any around NSW or VIC for hire...

[The Original Jetpipe]

Hi

Think there is a couple at Bankstown? The flight school next to Schofields use to have a TB10.
Never flown one so unable to comment on that side of it.

The Original Jetpipe

[Sunfish]

TB10, VH-JTU is at RVAC Moorabbin. Flies very nicely, but of course has the usual Gallic flair, like:-

1. Stylish gull wing doors - the seals leak and the POH pocket is directly under one, so POH can get wet. In addition if they are not securely locked you can lose them.

2. The lovely little strip type gauges which are difficult to read sometimes. JTU's oil pressure gauge needs the occasional tap to get it to indicate (probably fixed by now).

3. Circuit breakers that double as switches.

But it has leather seats:ok:

[autobrakes]

Australian Flying Training School has the TB10

http://www.afts.net/tb10.html

[Atlas Shrugged]

oil pressure gauge needs the occasional tap to get it to indicate (probably fixed by now).


I remember flying that thing when JW had it about 17 years ago and it didn't work then!

[kiwiblue]

Flew one of the TB10 years ago back home. The only lasting impression other than those already mentioned -pull the power off and it turns into a brick. IMO an un-lovely aircraft.

[Bombay]

Not a nice aeroplane. Did a few hours both operationally and instructing in them.

Seem to recall that they are heavy in the ailerons and overly light in the elevator, making them an unharmonised set of controls. Easy to over rotate and balloon on landing until you get the hang of it.

Seem to recall that it didn't perform as the book said either.

Give me a PA-28-181 any day over the TB10. Over rated, funny looking and operationally useless.

Bombay

[Atlas Shrugged]

Over rated, funny looking and operationally useless.

Well, they are French! ;)

[Bombay]

Indeed. I hadn't considered that as a reason!

[KLN94]

I have owned and flown both. An excellent aircraft. Check out the owners users group at socata,org. PM me if you want more info.

KLN

[The Messiah]

Have flown them and worked on them.......garbage.

[Icarus53]

Did a few hours in a TB10 through Basair at Bankstown back in my PPL days. Quite strange to get into after a long time in Cessnas and Pipers. Lots of stuff I didn't like but the vision is a bit of an improvement. I've been told that the TB20 is a bit of a step up???

[Natit]

It sounds as though, from the majority of posts, that the TB10 is fairly disliked. This got me thinking.. They seemed to have worked well for FTA for training overseas and Aussie cadets who have continued with a Grob/Tobago fleet since their beginning.

Are they cheap and therefore a wise business choice for a large training organisation such as FTA?

Just going by some of the responses here, if they're such a POS aircraft, why would a company that trains many airline cadets bother sticking with them?

Interesting discussion nonetheless.

[Like This - Do That]

Flew TB20s a couple of times and didn't bother after that.

Agree with Bombay about the lack on control harmony. Very very heavy to control in roll. Many comments about the strip gauges .... agree with those too. Crap. Weird-o-rama push button circuit breakers. Yecch.

I liked kiwiblue's point about the 'brick' - like behaviour with the power off. We've all heard about ham-fisted pilots stalling and spinning in when they cock up turning onto finals. With the gear and flaps down this aircraft BITES at the stall. OK OK others do too, but not nearly as nastily as the TB20. Leaves very little room for error.

Let's face it, 145KIAS or so in a TB20 compared to 130+ KIAS in a PA-28-236 (for example) which has much more benign handling & no retractable hassles, only amounts to a few minutes over a typical GA trip.

[DeltaSix]

Australian Flying Training School has the TB10

http://www.afts.net/tb10.html


Hi there, AFTS has closed down completely. I don't know where their TB10s are now.

I use to fly both the TB10 and TB20s. Nice looking but prefer the TB20s.
Some people don't like it but I reckon it all depends on your personality.
Personally, good for training.

D6

[neilia]

Basair at Bankstown has a couple of TB10s. Personally I didn't like them - one obvious problem is lack of headroom - I was constantly scraping my head and I'm not unusually tall at 6 foot. The thing just felt like a big clumsy tank.

[Crossbleed]

I loved the TB20. Especially after all the 20 yr old 50's designed Piper/Cessna stuff.
We had one at MB in 94 and although it was second-hand (D'Oh) it was great I thought, I loved the seating position and the different switches. It made anything that came before feel like a HD Holden. I admit it evoked a real love / hate relationship with some of our students / clients, but so did getting out of the VK and and into a Pug 504. It was a bit faster than most things with the same donk and the "hard -to-land" mis-nomer was because it had a higher wing-loading than most of the ancient **** we'd all be flying before. And I might add, if you ever got into an Aerostar of Metro II, is was good famil. for those types in that sense.
So yeah, not foolproof, but fun, I thought. TB20 anyway, never did the sisters.:E
PS: Whizwheel old cock, that was VH-BFU

[Reverseflowkeroburna]

Agree with Bombay about the lack on control harmony. Very very heavy to control in roll. Many comments about the strip gauges .... agree with those too. Crap. Weird-o-rama push button circuit breakers. Yecch.
I liked kiwiblue's point about the 'brick' - like behaviour with the power off. We've all heard about ham-fisted pilots stalling and spinning in when they cock up turning onto finals. With the gear and flaps down this aircraft BITES at the stall. OK OK others do too, but not nearly as nastily as the TB20. Leaves very little room for error.
Let's face it, 145KIAS or so in a TB20 compared to 130+ KIAS in a PA-28-236 (for example) which has much more benign handling & no retractable hassles, only amounts to a few minutes over a typical GA trip.

Well it aint the first aircraft to have somewhat unbalanced control forces. Two others that come to mind are very popular and practical. Just don't call it a circuit basher - good stable IFR platform!!

Push button switches - they work fine.

Gauges - Agreed. Hard to read & unreliable. Very, very expensive to replace.

Flying brick?? - Hasn't anyone ever flown a PA32/PA32R, Mooney, Metro or anything else with a higher wing loading???

Stalling!! - As with any aircraft, only to be done very close to, or very far from the ground!!!

145kts?? - Don't know about that........the two that I travelled in regularly managed a 155ktas........can't remember what it indicated.

Headroom - Grossly inadequate!! At 5'10" I had to lay the seat back like some punk in his pimped Commodore ridin down Lygon.

Landings - Not a problem at all as I recall as the aircraft had a trailing-link undercarriage configuration. They handled my punishment and regular trips to a grass strip well.

In summary, an OK, if different aircraft that got along well, perhaps a bit thirsty, but could carry adequate fuel for a 3/4 filled cabin. Its higher wing loading make it less suited to early training, better suited to IFR & CPL related
training and touring, rather than circuits!

Not my first choice due to unashamed Beechcraft bias, that'll be a Bonanza for a long time!! :ok:

[spin doctor]

I've flown the TB10 in vfr and ifr as an instructor. Cosmetically they were laid out well, nice dash layout and fairly comfortable to fly.

Generally ok IFR apart from some leaks from the door seals. One particular a/c resulted in me being drenched after a couple of ours in the soup.

You have to be careful with the flaps as you can overspeed them very easily, and flapless landings will generally result in a zero degree nose attitude or slightly higher, and this can obscure the threshhold depending on your size and seat position. This can be challenging at night.

Also careful of the doors when parked. If they're open and a wind gust comes along (either naturally or from starting a/c in front), it can cause damage.

[Ratshit]

Flying brick?? - Hasn't anyone ever flown a .........., Mooney, ..... or anything else with a higher wing loading???

You are kidding, right?

R:cool:

[bumpffslam]

Yep, I've flown TB9, TB10, TB200GT and TB20 (probably 300 hrs) in the UK and France and I love 'em!
The TB10 is probably the most common model - it's in a different league to PA28 and C172 and yet are about the same cost to run, infact touring I'd expect a better $ per nm from theTB10 than the other spam cans and it's faster.
"Drops like a brick" - true of the TB20 but not so the TB10.
Regarding headroom - yes it's not generous but then that's why the streamlining is better. I'm 6'4" and find it comfortable, without having to rake back the seat, [provided I use a headset with thin head band (eg Peltor). manage.
As a basic trainer I'd say pass 'em by but for touing and IFR they are solid, stable and comfortable.
Door seals - never had a problem.
Available in Aus or NZ - I don't know, but if you get to the UK, then try Enstone flying club in Oxfordshire. http://www.enstone-flyingclub.co.uk.
In the US, PlusOne have one at San Diego (very cheap but tired).

Bumpf (now in NZ)

[The Messiah]

High wing loading? What utter crap! The TB20 (Trinidad) had a very large wing surface area compared to other aircraft it competed with (and lost out) and was notably slower than the others that had similar donks such as Bonanzas and 210's which left it for dead.