Jetstar Asia and QF management

[aircraft]

Some posters to this forum like to hold up Jetstar Asia as an example of inept management by Qantas.

I instead see Jetstar Asia as a perfectly normal entrepreneurial venture and suggest to those posters that they find a better example.

Every entrepreneurial venture involves risk and uncertainty - and requires balls to even embark upon. Jetstar Asia is still in business today, but even if it had failed after a few months would not necessarily indicate management ineptitude.

Sure, there have been significant deviations from the business plan, but unless management possess a crystal ball it must be expected that deviations will occur.

The knockers of Qantas management seem to think that unless every event is anticipated, every action, judgement and decision correct, then the management must be inept.

Would the pilots accept being held to the same standards by management? If so, then merely doing a go round would indicate the pilot is inept.

I wish Jetstar Asia and the Qantas management the success they deserve - it would be good for all of Australia.

[Crossbleed]

Some would suggest that seeking landing rights in Taiwan before securing them in mainland China was ineptitude in it's purest form, given that the Chinese Govt. considers the Taiwanese to be a rouge state, and that the business model revolved around the mainland routes.
Would the pilots accept being held to the same standards by management? If so, then merely doing a go round would indicate the pilot is inept.
Utter nonsense.
The motivation for your post is rather difficult to fathom...... does someone have a Rat-tail interview coming up? Or perhaps it's time to chuck this aviation-career nonsense it the can and head off to uni for that business degree you are so obviously born to wield.
BTW: have a squiz at the latest Flt. Int'l. Seems some of the Jet* Asia management are off to greener / different / browner pastures?

[DutchRoll]

If I was held to the same standards as Qantas management I could quite happily accept the risk and uncertainty of flying below minima in bad weather in an attempt to get to my destination, smack the aeroplane into the runway, break off the nosewheel, evacuate the passengers down the slides, marshall them to the terminal, and expect a performance-based payrise next week.

[404 Titan]

aircraft

Ah, so you have just discovered what Jetstar Asia is? Last week you hadn’t even heard of it. I suspect though your research has been a little shallow because if you had done a little more research you would know that it is haemorrhaging cash like you wouldn’t believe. QF management has no idea how business is conducted in Asia as there little ventures with this and Australian Airlines would show and their soon to be launched Jetstar International will show. If this isn’t ineptitude then I don’t know what is. They certainly didn’t show proper due diligence to their shareholders which in my book is criminal.

Again another ill thought out comment from someone just out of school. :=

[Fliegenmong]

He's back - Ha HA Who would have thunk it eh? After last week.......:}

Onya Aircraft! Keep it coming mate - great stuff :ok: :hmm: :8

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Why is anyone replying to this guy?:confused:

[Aussie]

just finished school aircraft????:eek:

aussie

[touchncloth]

"The knockers of Qantas management seem to think that unless every event is anticipated, every action, judgement and decision correct, then the management must be inept. "


No buddy just wouldn't mind seeing some accountability for major mistakes, not generous bonuses and larger super contributions. Seems like no risk/ high reward.:ugh:

[Keg]

aircraft is one of two things. Either a troll (internet speak for someone who wanders the forums trying to wind people up) or a naieve person who's grasp on reality is so shallow as to not bother conversing with. Either way the answer is ultimately the same!

This is a timely reminder:

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.

:ok:

I was going to call aircraft an idiot but given that the Woomerii and their new alter egos are being tough on those who call others names at the moment I thought I had better refrain. Instead I'll say that aircraft's research methods indicate an inability to grasp reality and the conclusions reached by said research indicate a less than high intellect. IE, he's an idiot! :E

[aircraft]

Keg,

Calm down. I am in fact a professional pilot. The following links are to threads I initiated in May 2005 relating to assymetric performance:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=167873

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168376

Leane7,

My post was not random but the reply to a question asked of me in an earlier thread (that was closed by Danny).

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Where aircraft plies his profession....

http://qantasva0.tripod.com/

;)

[ebt]

Ah it wouldn't be a pprune thread without knocking QF, Jetstar in any form or the person who posted it. :}

Aircraft, I get what you're saying and can see why. I think Jetstar Asia was not the smartest move that Qantas made, but strategically I think it will be a good longer term investment if they manage it properly. At this stage, they are lucky to be alive still and its good that the shareholders have deep pockets to prop up the losses at least for a while.

Personally, I think that QF could have done a bit better by showing more entreprenuerial spirit by going to Indonesia or Malaysia. Obviously Singapore was chosen because it is essentially their second home after SYD. Problem was there was also Valuair and Tiger Airways starting around the same time, with all three airlines chasing routes that they assumed they would get because of Singapore's famed open skies policy. They didn't count on Indonesia and a few other countries protecting their national carriers and not allowing them to fly there. Should they have guessed it? Maybe they should have sorted out some of the traffic rights before going too far in to it, but they could be forgiven for thinking it would be easier than it was.

QF were probably also a bit giddy from the success of Jetstar and naturally assumed that Jetstar Asia would also be a license to print money. Many investors in recent years have seen these successful LCCs and thrown money at them thinking that it will get near instant returns. Unfortunately, many are now finding out that this isn't the case and that the formula doesn't always work the same in every market.

Look, for all of QF management's conservatism, lack of initiative and other things which are discussed elsewhere on this forum, the results speak pretty favourably of them. For many years they have consistently turned profits while many other airlines aren't. Sure it may be down this year but at least it is a profit.

*awaiting return fire*

[Keg]

Being a 'professional pilot' doesn't mean that you're not still a troll! ( :rolleyes: )

Even if you're not a troll that still leaves:

... a naieve person who's grasp on reality is so shallow as to not bother conversing with....aircraft's research methods indicate an inability to grasp reality and the conclusions reached by said research indicate a less than high intellect.


So congratulations on being a 'professional pilot' aircraft! The rest of your posts indicate the above! :E

[Australia2]

Aircraft,

You may fly for a living, that does not make you a professional pilot !

Oz2

[B A Lert]

Some would suggest that seeking landing rights in Taiwan before securing them in mainland China was ineptitude in it's purest form, given that the Chinese Govt. considers the Taiwanese to be a rouge state, and that the business model revolved around the mainland routes.


Gotta agree with this suggestion. I reckon that Crossbleeed is right on the money but I am told by a Qantas-insider that the person who did a lot of traffic right negotiation etc. was a 'Qantas retiree' who, one would expect, should have known better and advised the management appropriately. Was his nose so far in the trough that he couldn't be heard or was his advice simply ignored?

[speeeedy]

Only a few days ago Aircraft did not know that Jetstar Asia existed, he wrote on another thread something like:

"Jetstar Asia - What is that?, when is it due to start?, I have not heard of it."

With all due respect to the 'Professional Pilot' (not much is due I would think) I'll take my advice regarding the success or otherwise of a particular airline from those who are actually aware that the airline exists.

[bne019]

Interesting thread :hmm: :} :)

Just discovered that Jetstar (3K) will commence daily CNS-DRW-SIN from late-October 2006 using an A320.

Cheers :ok:

[apacau]

Website shows the CNS-DRW-SIN flight as JQ flight number. But would be surprised if NOT crewed ex SIN!

[J430]

This may be considered cynical, but, does anyone really know who flies for who and in what/whoevers a/c, under which AOC or for that matter ......Ohh now I am too confused:ugh:

I could well book QF business class and end up with a boarding pass showing seat 0A and being directed to my very own plastic 4 seater and told to fly myself VFR, serve my own drinks (H2O now) and pay for it while at the same time being asked to paint the tail with an orange colour and a star just to advertise for them.:E

OK I will stop the Hijack before this thread gets locked booted or I am on holidays ......(will wooms send me J* tho???)

J:ok:

[victor two]

For anyone who is interested -

NT Minister for Tourism Paul Henderson said today there were positive opportunities flowing from Jetstar’s announcement to commence daily flights between Singapore and Darwin.

“These new flights give more opportunities for international visitors to come to Darwin and reinforces Darwin as Australia’s gateway to Asia,” Minister Henderson said.

“The daily service means there are an extra 115 seats coming into Darwin every week, almost 6,000 a year, representing a 10% increase in capacity.

“With Tiger Airlines and now Jetstar expanding their services to Darwin, it demonstrates an increasing confidence by decision makers in Darwin as a tourist destination.

“This will attract more international visitors to the Territory from our traditional core markets while also tapping into the growing Singapore market.”

“There are challenges associated with this growth. The Territory must continue to be innovative and deliver our unique product to international visitors at a high quality expected by that market,’ said Minister Henderson.

The daily service is expected to start on 29 October 2006.

[BrisBoy]

aircraft,

Doing a go round does not indicate a pilot is inept.

If we are to compare job responsibilities and ineptitude then perhaps we could liken pre flight duties required of a pilot to due diligence required of managers.
Just as we do not operate an RPT flight unless we have consulted weather information, checked NOTAMS and completed a flight plan the same thorough preparation is required of managers before commencing a venture.
If we did not perform our duties then we would be inept. If they do not perform theirs then the same can be said.

If a venture is planned in a certain area then many considerations should be taken into account. This is a required pre venture manager’s responsibility.
If you wish to base a new airline in Singapore and tap into the expanding Chinese market then political and cultural considerations should be fairly high on your list of priorities.

A perfect example of doing neither and thus ineptitude, and has been mentioned at least twice before in this thread, is the order of priorities in relation to the Peoples Republic of China and the Republic of China.

aircraft, an unstable approach can be caused by many events occurring in a dynamic environment. A go round is not a mistake. Sometimes the words professional and pilot should not appear in the same sentence.

[aircraft]

BrisBoy,

Doing a go round does not indicate a pilot is inept.
You need to learn to read posts more carefully. I did not say that.

[BrisBoy]

aircraft, I understood exactly what you said. As I mentioned, many things may occur that result in an unstable approach.
By referencing your words (“then merely doing a go round would indicate the pilot is inept”) I thought you would understand my point, as I understood yours.

It is interesting that in your response you make no mention of Cross – Straight relations. Considering the subject of your topic and the importance of political and cultural considerations what you don’t say is more telling than what you do.

[aircraft]

BrisBoy,

You may be able to read the words, but you cannot understand what is being said. Have somebody read my post to you, explaining as they go.

Maybe you are trying to read it too rapidly? I suggest you get help with your english comprehension as that area may be tested by a future employer.

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

Maybe you should too aircraft. I thought "english" started with a capital "E". (In case your wondering aircraft, a capital letter is a big letter.)

[aircraft]

Enema Bandit's Dad,

Although I thank you for your suggestion, I must correct your notion regarding the capital e.

Capitalisation rules require proper adjectives be capitalised unless the association with the particular name has ceased. The association of "english" with the country England, has clearly ceased.

If I was referring to a specific test by name (e.g. "English Comprehension") conducted by a future employer, then capitalisation should have been used - but I wasn't being specific.

Examples:

"Are you familiar with Australian culture?"
"He enjoys the more earthly pleasures"
"It's all just greek to me"
"Such a word does not exist in the english language"

[Alien Sex God]

Your a wierdo aircraft.

[Keg]

aircraft is a troll. The best way to deal with that sort of idiotic behaviour (note that I label the behaviour and not the idiot performing it! :E ) is to starve it of oxygen and disengage.

aircraft is trolling and he knows that a few are on to him.

[Much Ado]

Once again you people display a level of maturity not so far removed from 8 yr olds on a school playground.

*click*