Comair- Employment equity row brewing

[Deskjocky]

On TNW this morning, seems like the labour ministry is bringing some high profile companies to book over their lack of commitment to transformation, including Comair. Seems like its going to be tougher for guys to get into the airline business..:yuk:
COMAIR has hit back at labour minister, Membathisi Mdladlana for not acknowledging the specific transformation challenges facing the aviation industry. Mdladlana yesterday accused Comair of “dragging its feet” in the implementation of the Employment Equity Act.
“We have taken a deliberate step to name and shame those that drag their feet. For the first time, the director-general is conducting reviews on six employers whose representation levels fell in the unacceptable category,” he said.
Comair’s joint ceo, Erik Venter responded by saying that the aviation industry faced specific challenges in the availability of black pilots and technically qualified staff, adding that this was acknowledged in the industry charter and sector scorecard.
“Comair has made significant attempts to address this situation and four years ago introduced a Cadet Pilot Training Programme for individuals from previously disadvantaged groups at large cost to the company.”
Venter added that excluding technical pilots and staff, 65% of the company was made up of previously disadvantaged individuals and it recently signed a BEE deal with Thelo Consortium.
The other five companies named by the department are: Kumba Resources, Verimark Holdings, Medi-Clinic Group, Prism Holdings and Omnia Group Limited.

[fluffyfan]

Venter added that excluding technical pilots and staff, 65% of the company was made up of previously disadvantaged individuals

The act says that there must be representation in ALL areas and ALL levels of the organistion, unfortunatley you cant get away with saying that 65% of our other staff are previously disadvantaged.

I said this would happen a while ago, and it wont just be Comair unfortunatley, it will be every company that has 50 or more employees, private or otherwise. I feel there frustration though, they start a cadet programme, train people of colour and the first opportunity those cadets get they move to SAA, same with Nationwide and all the others, dont think the Labour ministry is too bright, its all good to have policies and expect others to do the work and pay the money, big difference between theory and reality

[Alternative]

None of those Cadets are at SAA...4 yrs down the line!

[fluffyfan]

The Government knows the challenges, they are only too aware of the problem, over 800 pilots at SAA and 30 something from the previously disadvantaged group, now if SAA a government enterprise cant do it even while poaching every female and person of colour from every other airline/charter operation in the country what chance do the others have?

I wonder if this is not a government ploy to put pressure on the competition in light of all the legal processes being aimed at SAA by the other airlines, in particular there opposition to the new LCC that SAA is starting.........or maybe that is giving too much credit to the government, I dont think the labour department and department of public enterprises could get together and organise a piss up in a brewery let alone organise a strategy to harm the private competition

[Q4NVS]

Not a nice situation indeed, but in a way it is self inflicted... :zzz:

Spoke to a Comair/Kulula Crew once at which point it was indicated that they had no need to employ Previously Disadvantaged Individuals :sad:

This unfortunately is a reality of modern day society, especially in SA. So hopefully they will sort it out quickly, in order to side step those Government "Penalty Taxes".

Just think that there will soon be a real drive from them, i.e. short circuiting those who have been on the "Waiting List" for long...

[Deskjocky]

To me it looks like the government is tired of only seeing the “foot soldiers” coming from previously disadvantaged backgrounds- companies like CE/MN-BA/1T have made no attempt to train any of these people into management positions. This is a fact they cannot hide and is blatantly obvious.

Whilst I don’t think this issue is linked to the LCC, there is no question that during the “selling” phase of the LCC to government (which included various ministries) SAA made a very convincing argument around its contribution to the advancement of previously disadvantaged individuals- something the other airlines have not really taken to heart. Perhaps these carriers feel they cannot take the risk? Especially after seeing the chaos that rained at SAA as the old guard either retired or headed for Dubai..

Before everyone cries out that there are no experienced previously disadvantaged airline managers out there- there are literally hundreds of them in SAA, they did not pop out of nowhere- the airline has paid a dear price to give them these positions and whilst not all of them have made the grade (just as many of their white counterparts haven’t) some are very efficient at what they do and have now got more than 10 years service. Its got to the point now where white managers are again being recruited, as the big pie chart the HR department seem to love so much is now reflecting a employee base that is racially representative of the country.

Let me be clear about this- I’m not defending these discriminatory policies- they have set my career back years - I have watched others be promoted ahead of me on the basis of their skin colour rather than their ability- and then you are expected to do more than your fair share to keep the ship running- trust me its not fun. However the reality is that there is a new order in this country and its going to take time for things to come around- SAA is now slowly coming around, after 10 years!! The key lesson the other airlines need to learn form this experience is that its not about giving a previously disadvantaged person a job and then watching them sink- its about putting programs in place to equip these people with the skills to be an asset to your organisation- so do go get rid of all the experienced white guys- they are your knowledge base and are the ones that are going to transfer the required skills across- so you also need to retain them and take care of their needs. A process like this would result in a slight bloating in the organisation but over time the companies’ expansion will eliminate this and hopefully take advantage of the pool of talent you have created.

The reality is that it is bad for business to be seen to give government the bird on this issue: 2 easy examples:

1.Right now the government spend over 1.5 billion rand a year on air travel, they have made a decision to share a large proportion of this business among all the local airlines, despite the fact that it owns SAA. Big winners here are currently BA/Comair and Nationwide

2.The DOT controls the Bilateral Air Services Council – it decides who gets what and who goes where- the life line to any airline wishing to grow its route network.

The warning signs have been posted, how long will this last?.... I have seen government be quite purposeful on issues it takes seriously, in our industry with its oppressive layer of regulation it’s not going to take Messer’s Venter/Novick/Orsmond/ Bricknell long realise that playing ball is going to be the only course of action.

Anyway that’s my 2 zim cents worth!

[fluffyfan]

DJ well said as usual, I agree, its about time the other players made a bit more effort, SAA has been severly affected by having to comply (or at least try to to the best of abilities) to these regulations whilst the others continue operations as per normal with very little effort all the while suing SAA at every turn.

Its time the playing field was levelled, it’s not only SAA that has to spend billions trying to comply with the act, but the other operators have a choice and the astute business men that they are they have probably calculated it will be cheaper to pay the fines than comply with the act.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Govt interference in business will reap it's own rewards, not necessarily positive. Those companies who have to show a profit can't afford to take part in the Grand Social Experiment beloved of the pie in the sky social engineers and will suffer as a result, while the status quo at the national carrier will be maintained from usual sources, notwithstanding a profit(?) shown for a change. If tax penalties and loss of licences are to be used as a stick to beat business into compliance, that is nothing more than thuggery and extortion, albeit on a higher level than the normal bully boy tactics utilised.

The process has to be carried out on merit and not on some kind of handout program. If the passion and interest is there, a way will be found to fulfil those dreams and slot seamlessly into the system. Disrupting seniority lists, or to a greater extent, setting back those who have sacrificed all to get to where they are today, with a foot on the bottom rung but little hope of farther progress due to a race based selection system is nothing more than a discriminatory practice, something proscribed in our constitution. Replacing one system of discrimination with another is not the way forward and we can expect the brain drain to continue if things are not allowed to succumb to market forces.

Best man for the job, regardless of origin is the only way to assure success. If a candidate is beaten on merit there is no cause for complaint but to be denied an opportunity because of demographics is nothing more than a slap in the face for democracy and egalitarianism. The mistakes of the past cannot be propogated into the future or we'll end up facing the same old problems again.

Unfortunately, the rot will continue as long as votes can be bought in this manner...:(

[fluffyfan]

SRT that would be a perfect world, however CE/MN-BA have had 10 years or more to put something effective into practice, unfortunately its an act of parliament that has to be complied with, they run the country now and they make the rules, if companies want to operate in this country they have to comply with the law or face the consequences, I don’t like it any more than you do and it has affected my career with consequences that are not fully realised by myself yet.

From the News Today
The group, which is in its 60th year of operation and its 10th year as a British Airways franchise, managed an 8% rise in bottom line profits to R78m

They can certainly afford to do more

[Solid Rust Twotter]

It's the old interest story. Appears there's no shortage of folks going to university and doing a BA degree majoring in Underwater Basket Weaving but not that many hanging around flight schools. As things stand now, those folks would get preference in the job market but the interest appears to be lacking. If it's not handed over cut, dried and packaged no one wants to do it so the airlines have to tailor make packages to attract interest, while those who've sold assets, put families into penury and lived like paupers to be able to afford the training get passed by.

As you say, it's not an ideal world but you have to wonder about the agenda of those in govt sometimes. As a vote buying excercise, I'm sure any hits on those in the wrong demographic are worth gold. Govt need to be reminded they're merely public servants and work for the good of the public, not vice versa.

[Shrike200]

I can't really believe that it's practical to compare SAA to other companies in this country. Lets say Company X (Comair, 1time, Nationwide etc) has 100 pilots (for example). Does the government seriously expect them to train, say 50 PDI's, and make them into airline pilots (ie quite a bit more than 200 hours with twin/IF ratings)? And that would still fall short of demographic equality.... It doesn't matter how long they've had - I would have to say that it's simply not financially possible, at all, ever! I know I'm simplifying things, but that's what it looks like to me...

Companies like these have never had to train their applicant pilots, and should not be expected to - as I said, it's not financially viable. They rely on a fertile aviation industry to produce suitable candidates for them to hire - those guys currently out there on contract/charter etc. Therefore, I can only place the blame squarely at the governments feet - THEY are the ones who've dropped the ball, by not giving aspiring PD commercial pilots some kind of assistance to start. Thats the hard part isn't it? We all know how much money we had to spend to get the licence initially - once you're able to get that first job, you become self-sustaining, AND start gaining the required experience. The whole TETA thing seems to be a step in the right direction, but they're not doing it fast enough, or in enough numbers to effect the kind of change they seem to want. It seems they're saying "This is terribly important!", but then doing nothing about it except passing the buck in a big way via possible (and current) legislation.

To expect commercial entities to shell out millions and millions on something they've NEVER had to spend anything on in the past, and with no quantifiable return on investment is ridiculous - get some kind of 'citizen pilot' programme going, like the old SAAF idea, or sponsor CPL's (who then go on and work just like everybody else in the instruction/charter/contract game) - don't expect rapid (and I pretty much consider ten years as 'rapid' when it comes to this) compliance with ludicrous targets.

[SIC]

SHRIKE200 says:

"I can only place the blame squarely at the governments feet - THEY are the ones who've dropped the ball, by not giving aspiring PD commercial pilots some kind of assistance to start. "


THREE CHEERS FOR SHRIKE!!!!

You could'nt put it any better!!!

The GOV should be putting out bursaries and giving guys opportunities to get a comm - then work their way up. That is the only way you will "skei die kaf van die koring" and build a group of able and committed non white pilots!!!!!

TEN times better idea than SAA cadet scheme that goes to high schools and essentially sell a salary and worldwide travel to prospective cadets - "and all you have to do in return is sit here in the cockpit"
I think it is a well known fact that a lot of the failure of the current cadet scheme is due to cadets not really being 'into' flying.

[Deskjocky]

The crux of this issue is not really all about the flight deck- this has more got to do with moving away form the “window dressing” (i.e. low level functionary positions that anyone straight off the street could perform with a 2 week training course) mentality these companies have adopted to one of genuine buy into the process i.e. management positions, they want to see a transfer of skills.

[UpperSideBand]

First Post. Yeah! I don't want to know what is going to happen in SA Aviation in about 15-20 years from now. In the past Pilots followed a natural path of progression from flight school onto contract/charter/instruction and then on to the airlines if they so prefered. Government Legislation has created a bottleneck in this progression by insisting on the implementation of AA.

It's getting harder and harder for the new guys to complete the circle, which in turn leads to them leaving the country for other airlines in the world(SA Braindrain). Do you think they'll come back? I think not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for equal opportunities, but it should be just that, EQUAL.

I say, sure, try and get things equal, but don't force it, or you are going to sit without any qualified pilots in the end...

[Deskjocky]

There is absolutely no debate that things should be equal no body disputes this- but the law is the law. These airlines have benefited from legislation and liberalisation created by this self same government. You cannot choose what laws you want to go along with because they suit your business and then ignore the ones that don’t. Its time to pay the piper.

[Shrike200]

...with money that comes from.....where?

And I'm not necessarily talking about Comair here. Do you think 1time, Nationwide etc have the money that SAA has? What if a company in a precarious situation was ultimately driven to the point of going into liquidation? That certainly wouldn't help anybody....

I apologise for being pedantic - but we are dealing with financial reality here, and therefore government should have to come up with a more intelligent plan than saying "You need more black people in your company, make it happen!" What about tax breaks for compliant companies, or other incentives? More carrot, less stick....after all, it's not like these aviation companies were somehow responsible for apartheid. Government should be putting their money where their mouth is IMHO, and NOT trying to name and shame or fine companies.

[fluffyfan]

Shrike200, I agree, that would be the right thing, however its not about the right thing, its about the ANC being the boss now and making the rules.

The financial reality is that if the other airlines dont do something soon and carry on in a state of denial that they will be heavily fined and possibly loose routes etc, the government has not used any stick in the past, it looks like they are about to though.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Could this be another way to get rid of competition for SAA? Interfere in private businesses that are self supporting, to their detriment until they can no longer function, then continue with the tax funded airline as if nothing has changed.

Naahhhh! They wouldn't, would they....:E :}

[Shrike200]

Well, if they did, I think we could ascribe it to the usual short sightedness and bumbling idiocy more than any kind of evil plan.

Fluffyfan, you're right of course. I still can't get away from asking where 300+ black *South African* (if not more, and if they're not SA people, then whats the point?) pilots are going to come from, or who's going to pay for them. You do say 'the other airlines' though - surely NONE of the local airlines comply with goverment targets? I mean SAA has about 700 pilots or so. Surely that means at least 600 should be 'previously disadvantaged? (what a useless term). It's just a brick wall of reality for me, one that I am unable to climb over right now.

I had typed out a whole rant on this topic, but of course there's no point. We survive (and I mean *all* South Africans, although I suppose I can't count the AIDS sufferers following the government diet, crime victims etc etc) not due to the government, but despite it as usual...grrr!

[Ketek400]

I think let''s leave all this sorting out to the previously disadvantaged and go to greener pasteurs. They will then soon beg us to come back.

How many years do we need to get playing fields even again in this country? I guess 40 years or so! Just hope there will be airports left. Or maybe we would then have to land between the potholes, shacks and after you stop in the bay get hi-jacked.

What a mess.....

[Deskjocky]

Could this be another way to get rid of competition for SAA? Interfere in private businesses that are self supporting, to their detriment until they can no longer function, then continue with the tax funded airline as if nothing has changed.

Naahhhh! They wouldn't, would they....:E :}

If you have a look at the companies mentioned it seems the government is far more interested in the mining sector than the airline business- government is fully conversant with the lack of black pilots in the market and seems prepared to cut some slack to the airlines in this regard- what it wants to see is that black people be promoted into decision making/responsible positions.

Now lets face facts, SAA has paid a dear price to become compliant to this legislation- if it were left alone to operate as it was doing before all of this nonsense I hardly think airlines like Comair would be doing half as well as they are today- I know because I worked for Comair in those days- SAA was tops in the eyes of the customer and Comair really battled offering fares that were 30% cheaper than SAA. In recent years their lack of transformation has been billed almost as a competitive advantage in the market.

Will implementing this legislation according to the law increase your costs? No- simply have a look at the mistakes made at SAA and plan accordingly, if done half heartedly- as is the current situation then its going to cost big bucks in fines as well as a dip in profitability as remedial measures (that will be legally enforced) are put in place in a hurry.

What everyone needs to realize is that there is a new team in town- you either play by their rules or you get out- you can still make money, they just don’t want a bunch of old white men keeping it all- they want to spread it around among folks who didn’t have the chance before.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

The post was tongue in cheek and I have no argument with your points. Unfortunately, the system is based more on race than merit and initiative (as it was in the past but two wrongs won't make a right). When we can see past the racial problem and take on someone because they do a bloody good job, we'll be on the road to success. Any manipulation of a private sector company by govt is merely a vote gathering excercise by the political filth and can only do harm both to the company and the candidates. The unfortunate fact is that with legislation like this in place, no black candidate will ever be deemed to have got there on their own merits and will always be viewed with suspicion as a result. This is doing the cause more harm than good IMO.

[Deskjocky]

Spot on SRT, as mentioned before I’ve been on the receiving end of this reverse racism and its no picnic! The good news is that the pendulum is swinging back- well as far as SAA is concerned, I’m sure going forward things will return to some state of normality- ie SAA will have to recruit pilots and that will get the turnover through the other airlines flowing again- what is going to screw things up even further ,though ,is these other companies trying to fight the government- that will just bring the spotlight down on the whole industry even further- that’s not going to help anyone- especially not themselves!!

[Solid Rust Twotter]

No such thing as reverse racism, boet. It's racism, pure and simple...:(

Lets hope the political filth can stop their childish point scoring and get it right before it's too late.

[Deskjocky]

As seen in today's Business Day- seems they feel window dressing should be rewarded- particularly interesting is the piece on the day to day running of the company…

This is one time slick PR is not going to wash:}
:=
COMAIR, the aviation company that operates kulula.com, yesterday added its name to the growing list of companies that are displeased with comments from the labour minister last week on employment equity.

More than 1290 companies were named, some apparently erroneously, for not having submitted their employment equity reports on time, but Comair was one of six companies named for poor progress on employment equity. The others are Kumba, Verimark, Medi-Clinic, Prism and Omnia.

Comair said yesterday that, excluding pilots, of its 1400 staff, 51% were black and 65% were women.

“We’re confused and we know others are too. Not just the six, but companies in general are not sure where the goal posts are any more,” said Gidon Novick, Comair joint CEO. “We have exceeded our employment equity targets.”

Kumba also railed against last week’s statements, saying progress on targets for historically disadvantaged South Africans in its management had increased from 28% in 2004 to 33%.

“This rate of progress indicates that Kumba is on track to meet the mining charter target in 2008 — well ahead of the 2009 deadline,” said Kumba.

Novick said yesterday Comair would engage the minister on the issue but felt that there had been a new focus on the boards of companies. “If so, we’d love to know that,” Novick said.

Jimmy Manyi, head of the Employment Equity Commission, said yesterday a director-general from the department would meet Comair and others and warned that companies should not jump to conclusions.

“I don’t know the specific issues on Comair,” said Manyi, “But when we assess a company it’s on a range of issues, not just representivity.”

Manyi said being consultative with staff, wage gaps, training, skills transfer, equitable pay for peer groups, the country’s demographics and more were taken into account. He said there was no sudden, new focus on board directors.

Comair has two black male nonexecutive directors and no women on the board. None of the six companies named last week has an executive director who is black or a woman. The day-to-day running of these companies rests in white, male hands.

“It is one area where we’ve got to do better,” said Novick. “We will be recruiting executives in the near future.

“But what do you do with a team that has been going for a long time and the churn is very low and it’s a specialised industry?”

Novick said Comair had invested 5% of its payroll in skills development, had actively recruited for black talent and had concluded an empowerment deal.

“We want recognition for that. The department set guidelines and we’ve met them.”

[JG1]

The point is how does the government expect the likes of Comair/Nationwide/etc to achieve full racial representation in the pilot ranks when SAA itself can only achieve 30 out of 800?

[Deskjocky]

As has been previously posted- its not about the pilots- its about management:

Comair has two black male nonexecutive directors and no women on the board. None of the six companies named last week has an executive director who is black or a woman. The day-to-day running of these companies rests in white, male hands.

[Afriviation]

Joke:
A friend of mine (black) went on his 1st overseas trip to London. Whilst he was there he saw all the cleaners, construction workers, taxi drivers, toilet attendants were all white. He didn’t want to see what the black people were doing.

I think everyone has to ultimately face reality that all the races need to be represented at every job level. Obviously it will not be an easy process to get this going with SA’s history. Certain policy decisions are certainly necessary as the old guard will not simply open their doors particularly in the more technical fields where there’s very few openings.

[Biff99]

If you have a look at the companies mentioned it seems the government is far more interested in the mining sector than the airline business- government is fully conversant with the lack of black pilots in the market and seems prepared to cut some slack to the airlines in this regard- what it wants to see is that black people be promoted into decision making/responsible positions.

Now lets face facts, SAA has paid a dear price to become compliant to this legislation- if it were left alone to operate as it was doing before all of this nonsense I hardly think airlines like Comair would be doing half as well as they are today- I know because I worked for Comair in those days- SAA was tops in the eyes of the customer and Comair really battled offering fares that were 30% cheaper than SAA. In recent years their lack of transformation has been billed almost as a competitive advantage in the market.

Will implementing this legislation according to the law increase your costs? No- simply have a look at the mistakes made at SAA and plan accordingly, if done half heartedly- as is the current situation then its going to cost big bucks in fines as well as a dip in profitability as remedial measures (that will be legally enforced) are put in place in a hurry.

What everyone needs to realize is that there is a new team in town- you either play by their rules or you get out- you can still make money, they just don’t want a bunch of old white men keeping it all- they want to spread it around among folks who didn’t have the chance before.
:= :ugh:
All the gov. wants, is it all, they don't give a rat's ass aboute the rest of us,open your eyes.
Why do you think crime is what it is to day, why everybody is leaving or want to leave.
Why after 12 years down the line do we still talk about under privelaged people.
How many people did SAA screw in the past and still doing it today.
SA is losing alot of qualified people on a daily basis because of your beloved goverment!