Qantas Cadetship and school marks

[autobrakes]

Hey guys, i'm planning to apply for cadetship next year, i didn't do so well in year 11 exams (but managed to pass). Just wondering whether I should apply or wait until i finish yr 12.

I understand it's competitive which why I am wondering whether or not they will give those with "just" a pass a go.. your help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

[Iinthesky]

If you have decided that you want to do the cadetship, then you should have a go. I would suggest that you have real go though: study, throw a brick through the television (such distraction, especially Australian Idol), don't spend hours on the internet reading highly entertaining and informative websites such as this one and if you have a boy/girl friend put them on hold until you finish school. In summary, if you have not performed so well this year and you make a positive and concerted effort to improve then hopefully this will be reflected in some good results or at the very least it will provide you with some things to talk about if you get an interview. Even if you don't get in, you won't hurt your chances of going to university.

I have had a few(too many) ales with some fellows that have been through the cadetship and many of them performed at an average to above average level in both Year 11-12 (not all mind you). Some went back to school to "do better", others went straight into the workforce. I think in the end it depends on the overall package that you are presenting of yourself that will determine how you will fare. If you are confident that a few average marks in Year 11 will not detract from your application then go ahead put your name in the hat, else put it on the back-burner and try to make your application so good that they can't not give you a job........Good luck.

Watching,
I

[Woomera]

autobrakes,

When you go for a sim ride as part of the assessment, for cadet or direct entry, they don't look for an ace performance from the get go...they look for improvement throughout the detail and they look for someone who can annalyse, learn and apply what they learn.

Your yr11 results have shown you where you need to improve and if you annalyse those results and apply that knowledge and APPLY yourself nothing is stopping you getting the results you need in 12 mths.

If want you want to do is fly jets a QF cadetships is a VERY worthwhile aim. It's up to you:ok:

[podbreak]

Yeah you got it in one. They'll want to see that you know where/why your marks weren't fantastic, and that you've got a plan to get better marks. You don't need to be einstein to fly a big jet, but you've gotta have the passion and stick-to-it-dness to climb the hill. I personally know a bloke who was in your shoes, his marks were dismal, but he was the right guy, and switched on and he got through. Just because molecules or ancient rome aren't your thing doesn't mean you won't make a damn good skipper one day, and QF KNOW that. So go for it mate.

[max autobrakes]

Autobrakes,
No relation I might add,
a $200k + overdraft might also help to get you through the Qantas Cadet Couse.Costs which will include $100k+ for the course, try appx $25K /year for 2 years living expenses during said course, $7k for a useless night VMC rating,( a QF requirement) despite the fact a few months later during the course you get a Class 1 intrument rating that gives you the same privileges, not to mention if and when you get "posted "to do your Industry exposure job you will be earning appx $45K as an F/O on dash 8's or the like, so you will need to buy a car and once again those pesky living costs not to mention that rapidly ballooning mountain of debt you have to keep servicing, and on top of all this you will be told by Qantas in no uncertain terms that there are no guarantees of a job with Qantas at the end of this glorious rainbow.
If you get through all of this ,then the power to you my young friend, for you will need it, because by the time you jump all those hurdles it appears more and more likely that the pot of gold at the end of this rainbow, a secure ,decent paying, pilots job with Qantas is rapidly disappearing in a puff of smoke called the WorkChoice Act.
Despite all that, as they say, " You've got to be in it to win it" :uhoh:

[Aussie]

A Little pessimistic there mate!

Go for it i say!


Aussie

[jack red]

If you have the money or can get the money then go for it.

I personally find charging future employees for cadetships and endorsements abhorrent but until the airlines run out of "wealthy applicants", I don't see it changing in the short term.

Just make sure you have Maths & Physics included in your curriculum.:ok:

[podbreak]

Autobrakes,
No relation I might add,
a $200k + overdraft might also help to get you through the Qantas Cadet Couse.Costs which will include $100k+ for the course, try appx $25K /year for 2 years living expenses during said course, $7k for a useless night VMC rating,( a QF requirement) despite the fact a few months later during the course you get a Class 1 intrument rating that gives you the same privileges, not to mention if and when you get "posted "to do your Industry exposure job you will be earning appx $45K as an F/O on dash 8's or the like

Lets get the facts sorted: Course costs around $88K (ab-initio) and the course lasts for 1 year max (ab-initio, 6 months for the QC2 course) the course cost includes the night rating (unless you do the QC2 course which its a pre-requisite for i believe). Living expenses, well if you spend $25K in a year in the outer suburbs of Melbourne/Adelaide, then the don't know how to budget, so try 15K MAX. When you get "posted" you will be earning that money, but trust me $45K in GA isn't something to complain about, and should be enough to cover interest + principle on your loan :ok: just watch out for the doom and gloom, some ppl will have you think that its a bad road to go down!

[autobrakes]

Many thanks for the valuable advice! :)

[Icarus53]

Another thing to consider - if you're only in Year 11, it might be a year or two before you're successful getting on to the course. Although there have been cadets aged 18-20, most of the ones I've come across are in the 21-24 bracket, with some over 30!

If you decide to head down this route and your marks aren't up to scratch, or they tell you you're not ready, don't take this as a final answer. Start flying on your own time and apply the following year. I heard one of the guys from last year's course got through after applying several years in a row. I also know a few others (Direct Entry and Cadet applicants) who were told to go away and do some further study to achieve the necessary grades, even with 2000+ hours in the log book. That said, nothing beats getting it right the first time, so hit the books and ace your exams.:ok:

[max autobrakes]

Not so Podbreak.
These figures have been relayed to me by a cadet who has under taken the course.
They said the course in Adelaide was $107k, plus the other figures are a fair guess, not to mention the hiring of an aircraft to get the required number of command hours up plus an endorsement to cover those hours.
I'd say $200k would be conservative.
I'm not saying don't do it. What I'm saying is that it is now a job where the risk/reward considerations have changed dramatically, and not necessarily for the better.

[podbreak]

Max Autobrakes,

the adelaide course is live on campus and everything is covered (food etc.) they also do not do a night rating (they already have it), because its the QC2 course which indcludes C-ME, ATPLs, aeros and multicrew, contact FTA for more info. That 107K (or ballparking there abouts) covers your course and ALL living expenses bar your piss. My figures above are as I say for the ab-initio course. 200K is plain silly. I've got these figures as I worked very recently with cadets in industry placement who just finished their courses. None of which had debts anywhere near this figure.

Don't want to turn this into ping-pong, but as I say, thats how much its been in the last year or two.

[Air Ace]

I'm with you Max Autobrake, as payments come due and are made there is an increasing interest bill. This continues until there is sufficient income to be able to at least service the interest portion of the debt. Great if you have a family able to draw down on cash reserves but not if the Cadet has to repay. In most cases there will be a break in the course or some repeats are required, or Qantas mandated tests all paid for by the Cadet external to the course agreement. The course design is for minimum time not necessarily for the cadet level of progress so blow outs are a reality. On completion of the course it is not always that the cadet goes off immediately for their CIPP, in fact it may be months before this occurrs. Remember no guarantee, meanwhile no income but the interest accrues. A figure of between $A150000 to$A250000 depending on how it is financed is not unrealistic. If you have cash to burn do the cadet course, but if you have to finance it yourself do direct entry to the airline of choice after some industry exposure. Remember not many cadets get command time, most are going into the right hand seat. Qantas also require a night vmc rating as an extra, all the privilages of which are given later on the issue of your instrument rating, and interest is accruing on this expenditure. Remember at the end of the day there is no guarantee that Qantas is going to accept the cadet. I know as I am the sponsor of one of the cadets. Podbrake is indicating only of direct costs not financing and hidden costs.

[LONGHAUL1]

$200,000? They must be using Learjets for their CPL training. The facts are that a level 1 cadet course runs for 12 months and it will cost a cadet on average $85,000. Compare this cost with a twin engine instrument rating from any descent flying school around the country, factor in the QF multicrew training and you might be suprised how this figure compares to anyone else wanting to undertake equivalent training. Living costs? well the bad news is that everyone has those. Is $85,000 a lot of money, yes. Just thought people should be informed that is is a lot less than $200,000. Anyone considering applying shouldn't take mine or anyone from PPRUNE's word for it. The real costs of the cadet course are easily verified through the nominated training organisations or contacting pilot recruitment. And if im really dealing with old information maybe you can buy me a beer MAXY and explain it sometime. ;)

[Vic Hotel]

There are some very well informed people on here with quotes of
150-$250 000 :hmm: . I think not, I happened to work with the level 2 cadets this year in Adelaide, and I can tell you their course was not 250,000. Try close to 60,000 including their industry placement conversion training, and live-in expenses. Now these guys have cpl's and nvfr's, which costing varies between school's, depending on where they gained those beforehand. Timeframe 5months level 2 and 13 for level 1. Now to cover all the "extra" training they would need as the costs only cover the minimum training. If they needed that much extra training they would not be on the program, maybe allow for one possibly two stuff ups that might need another flight or two, any more than that however and they would probably have their position reconsidered. Also contrary to popular belief all payed their own way through, without mummy and daddy:eek: Don't be put off what you hear in the rumour mill, if you think you can do it and it's what you really want, then it is not a bad way to go. Read the information and estimated quotes on the Qantas website, they offer a fairly good guide to costing. All the best
VH

[chief wiggum]

Do not forget that you have to pay for your own RAY-BANS! Qf does not supply them.

[ContactMeNow]

Also contrary to popular belief all payed their own way through, without mummy and daddy:eek:

Not true...

Not wanting to start a arguement or anything, but one of my best mates was on that course and I can tell you for a fact that he didn't pay for it himself...

CMN :ok:

[dr_doLiTTle]

Just for those who are interested, this year most of the cadets did pay their own way through. Some had to work in non aviation related jobs for a few years then take out a loan. The level 2 course costed $47000, which included all living expenses. But as some of you have already mentioned, those who took out loans will have fun paying interest on top of this. :ouch: