An Englishman & an Irishman in the Congo...Avient

[mr Q]

Interesting article in today's (UK) Sunday Times about cargo in the Congo......
"Smith has denied responsibility for the actions of his aircrews in the Congo. He said: “It is a matter of record that I worked for a company which assisted the government of the DRC to locate crews to fly transport aircraft and helicopters.

“It is also a matter of record that the company was not responsible for the activities of any crew. This lay directly with the legally recognised government of the country. It was also a policy that the company would not comment on matters of state or government.

“The company I was working for at the time was not a UK entity and its activities were conducted with full disclosure to the authorities relevant to its base of operations.”

He now runs his Avient air cargo business from his Wiltshire home, a world away from the war-scarred Congo, and says his fleet of aircraft fly the world. A former officer in the Queen’s Gurkha Engineers, Smith is a well-known local figure. He recently presented the prize to the winner of the ladies’ race at a Royal Artillery point-to-point at Larkhill."
Sunday Times

[Flying Mech]

MR Q

Any chance you could elaborate a bit further on the details of this article? Were the crew doing a nixer carrying "Mining Equipment" & got an A/C Inspection and got caught or was it something else?

[mr Q]

Flying Mech:
This is the url

www.timesonline.co.uk

You have to register but registration is,I think, free.

[AfgAirOps]

Direct link;
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2350645_1,00.html
I do hope that Smith, one of the most thoroughly despicable & unlikeable characters it's ever been my displeasure to meet, finally gets what he deserves.

[finnman]

he may think that highly of you also

[AfgAirOps]

he may think that highly of you also
Unlikely. After all, I don't seem to be responsible for perpetuating widespread suffering of innocent people. (& my understanding of the newspapers investigations is that we havn't heard everything they have to say) :ok:
Maybe you'll have to go & find a job at a proper company T! :}
Cheers!!

[edit] Forgot to say, please don't grace him with the concept of me caring what he thinks about me or anyone else on the planet!

[napoleon]

Smith, Obrien, and John Breedenkamp knew full well that they were supplying mercenaries to the DRC and were fully aware that they were bombing civilians. I witnessed their actions.

[BJT]

Smith, Obrien, and John Breedenkamp knew full well that they were supplying mercenaries to the DRC and were fully aware that they were bombing civilians. I witnessed their actions.
Interested to hear that you 'witnessed their actions', since I part wrote the Sunday Times article - would be delighted to have a long, long coversation with you ( and I'll buy the beer) regarding exactly what you saw, where and when..

[napoleon]

First: I dont drink with jerks like you, Second: I see that you wrote nothing over and above what was supplied to the Times by the NGO that did the investigation. Gutter Journo's like you are the scum of the earth.

[Cargo Cult]

Here we go again, "journo jerks..." et ****ing cetera. It never seems to stop on PPRUNE. Of course we all understand that mere "journos" shouldn't have the temerity to comment on the sacred space of aviation, much less question the attitudes of PILOTS for heaven's sake. Thos contributors that claim to be pillocks, sorry pilots, no doubt are, without exception.
"napoleon" - that says it all really. If you know so much sh0rt@sss, let's all hear it.

[napoleon]

Cargo Cult I have read your post. I figured out you are not a scummy Journo from your use of English, I can only assume you have spent too much time asleep on toxic cargo.........whats your point? I am not posting what I saw on prune as it may spoil an ongoing investigation.

[MercenaryAli]

It may have escaped the notice of everyone here that WAR IS NOT NICE.
People get killed, mained injured. Mercenaries just do a job that most people don't want to do. Both sides in war claim the moral high ground that they are right and the others are wrong. All killing is wrong but it has gone on for 3000 years; at least and I doubt it will stop in my life time! Before too much dirt is slung perhaps time to reflect that BLiar has much blood on his hands too! And he is supposed to be the Great New Labour Leader! :ugh:

[capt.moyo]

Is this the same Avient that have DC10 register in Zimbabwe but never come here? We always wonder what is going on with this company. We hear many storys but never see aircraft. Everything very suspicious as we told it is based in France with french people flying for Zimbabwe company. Now we see that Avient seem to be having interesting history. This is not good for aviation in Zimbabwe as it has a bad reputation already and now it seems that cargo airline is being used as a military aircraft? How were they allowed to do this?
Do french people know of this, will they let them continue now it is in papers?

[napoleon]

Capt Moyo Yes shamwari it is the same Smith and the same Avient. Part of John Breedenkamps empire. They are a bunch of unconvicted murderous criminals..........but the net is closing in on them fast.

[snarfel]

Just a reminder..., read the March 5th 2003 Rwanda and Great Lakes debate in the UK Parliament http://www.appggreatlakes.org/cgi-bin/site/index.cgi?back=&pid=14&keywords=&topic=Parliamentary_Debates.
Search for: "... to British business man Andrew Smith, who is a former Royal Engineers captain. He manages Avient Air, which supplied six attack helicopters to the Kinshasa Government and ..." etcetera !

[capt.moyo]

Is this finnman who post earlier one of the criminals, he seem to support this smith with his comment?

[napoleon]

Dunno but anyone who supports Smith and Co is either one of them or has a deathwish.

[AfgAirOps]

'Capt Moyo'.... I think we may have met, on-board that very DC-10....... did you have a connection with Kent?

Capt Moyo Yes shamwari it is the same Smith and the same Avient. Part of John Breedenkamps empire. They are a bunch of unconvicted murderous criminals..........but the net is closing in on them fast.

:ok: :ok: :ok:

I'd love to see Smiths reply, here, in-public, to this...... if he had the backbone to do so....

Just a reminder..., read the March 5th 2003 Rwanda and Great Lakes debate in the UK Parliament http://www.appggreatlakes.org/cgi-bin/site/index.cgi?back=&pid=14&keywords=&topic=Parliamentary_Debates.
Search for: "... to British business man Andrew Smith, who is a former Royal Engineers captain. He manages Avient Air, which supplied six attack helicopters to the Kinshasa Government and ..." etcetera !

And also;

UN Criticizes UK for Failing to Clamp Down on Mercenaries - Financial Times (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/congo/2001/0417merc.htm)
"Avient provided military assistance to the unelected Congolese government's air force in 1999 and 2000 during the war against rebel forces. "

How a Perfect English Gent in a Rural Idyll Profits From a Bloody African War - Observer (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,846411,00.html)
"But an Observer investigation has uncovered evidence that behind the doors of a luxury house on the edge of the village, Andrew Smith runs a business empire which has made a fortune from a bloody African civil war that has claimed millions of lives. "

How British Army Man Organised Bombing Raids, Mercenary Operations - The East African (http://www.nationaudio.com/News/EastAfrican/09122002/Features/Magazine0212200218.html)
"The Observer newspaper also alleges that Smith ran a mercenary operation in the DRC and had documents showing that the former army captain had traded with the notorious Ukrainian arms dealer Leonid Minin (see The EastAfrican, November 18-24)."

UN cuts details of Western profiteers from Congo report, The Independent (http://www.axisoflogic.com/cgi-bin/exec/view.pl?archive=22&num=2732)
"Avient is run by a former British Army captain, Andrew Smith. In the last panel report, the company was said to have been contracted to stage bombing raids over eastern Congo in 1999 and 2000. It also allegedly sold six attack helicopters to the Kinshasa government last year. "

Final Report of the Panel of Experts on the Illegal Exploitation of Natural Resources and Other Forms of Wealth of the Democratic Republic of the Congo - UN Security Council - S/2002/1146 (http://www.genocidewatch.org/glca31october2002.htm)
"In April 2002, Avient Air brokered the sale of six attack helicopters to the Kinshasa Government. Bank records show several transactions between Avient and accused trafficker Leonid Minim. Under the management of Andrew Smith, a former British army captain, Gerry O'Brien and Lewis Kling, Avient was contracted to organize bombing raids into eastern D.R. Congo in 1999 and 2000."

A Catalogue of Failures: G8 Arms Exports and Human Rights Violations - Amnesty International (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGIOR300032003)
"Another example is the Zimbabwean company, Avient, with management links to the UK, which was reported to have hired Russian aircraft and air crew to support the government of Laurent Kabila in the Congo with "air drops", and also admitted to repairing and maintaining Russian MIG fighters for the Kabila regime."

Regulating weapons deals: The case for European Controls on arms brokers - Oxfam (http://www.oxfam.org/eng/pdfs/pp030303_euro_arms_brokering.pdf)
(pdf file, right-click & save)
"British citizen, Andrew Smith, resident in Wiltshire, was named by a UN report for organising bombing raids in DRC on behalf of President Joseph Kabila. He is also alleged to have brokered the sale of six attack helicopters to DRC government last April. He side-stepped EU arms embargos by operating through his company, Avient, registered in Zimbabwe."

Is this finnman who post earlier one of the criminals, he seem to support this smith with his comment?

Don't know if he's a criminal or not but I do know that he works for Smith and that it could therefore be argued, supports him.

[FlyingSpannerMan]

He now runs his Avient air cargo business from his Wiltshire home, a world away from the war-scarred Congo, and says his fleet of aircraft fly the world.
Is it not possible that he didn't know what his own staff were doing, if indeed he was a 'world-away'?
FSM

[AfgAirOps]

Is it not possible that he didn't know what his own staff were doing, if indeed he was a 'world-away'?
FSM

FFS!!! :ugh:

No, never, not a chance.

To answer your question (if it was a question & not a joke!:} ), Smith tries to control everything crews do. Just ask any of the DC-10 crew how often the sat-phone used to ring with fresh 'instructions'. The idea of any of his employees acting without his knowledge is, I think, laughable.

[napoleon]

Smith was not in the UK at the time he was in Harare keeping his eye on all the ops in DRC for John Breedenkamp. I didnt see him in Kinshasa though I was told he was there but I saw O'brien and Peter Truman many many times. He knew what his people were doing he gave them the job and their orders.

[snarfel]

More questions about the intricate Avient connections!
According to Aerotransport.org, Avient’s DC10, Z-ARL, has Chalons-Vatry as its base. Consulting http://www.avient.aero/partnerships.htm#airline, I see this confirmed, but who is the UK based Airline Management Group (AMG)?
There was also a Airline Management Group in Ostend and according to http://www.cleanostend.com, the Ostend AMG had connections with arms dealer Duane Egli (ex-Zaire and probably now residing in Miami). Furthermore, Egli’s Ducor World Airlines became International Air Services (meanwhile listed on the EU ban list and having ceased operations). But searching for the IAS address, you get the London address of Andrew Smith, mentioning “IAS c/o Avient” and in April 2006 Avient still confirmed having leased both IAS Lockheeds, without any further comment.
Very, very bizarre! Does anybody have more explanation about these alleged interconnections?
(Just for the record, Avient seems to have a second DC10, the ex-N401JR (46590), which was on April 17, 2006 still flying for DAS Air Cargo [see www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1040800]).

[capt.moyo]

AfgAirOPs,
My friend, you confuse me with another who has the same family name but is Flight Engineer with this Avient. I know him quite well and he tells me everything he knows about this company.

[napoleon]

Capt.Moyo. shamwari if Moyo is your real name please dont say too much here about them as I believe Breedenkamp and Smith have heavy connections in Zim.

[capt.moyo]

Mr Napoleon
I send you a pm

[napoleon]

Mquasha. I got it thanks.

[ALLDAYDELI]

Avient also has an IL76 Z-WTV in Harare, dealt with by Luis Kling. Yes, they have 2nd DC10F ex-DAS. The extra aircraft is for a UAE-Africa scheduled rotations.

[napoleon]

IL76 Z-WTV has been used extensivley by the South African defense force for positioning equip and bods to the various peace keeping missions north of the Limpopo. Can you imagine that a nation that had the 7th best airforce in the world 10 years or so ago has to resort to using Smith a known war profiteer.

[GANJA]

Bonaparte

Which points or ranking system would you use to rank it at 7th best??? Even streatching the good old imagination does not make it possible for such a high placing.

G

[napoleon]

GANJA. REAL combat experience not playing

[capt.moyo]

Now I look on Avient website for more informations and get more questions.
I see they say they are IATA registered :
"Welcome to the home of Avient, an IATA registered cargo airline that operates on a weekly schedule to Nigeria, Gabon, Ghana, Kenya, Burundi, Uganda and the Congo."
Do IATA know of the Avient activities in Congo?
Also why do Zimbabwe Cargo Airline run schedule service from france, do french people know they are doing this and taking work from french people at Air France? Why do they not come here and run service here and give jobs to people from Zimbabwe.

[napoleon]

Shamwari Moyo, Is Zimbawe air cargo Eddie Nygera

[Engineer]

Confirm
(http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=401JR&cmndfind.x=18&cmndfind.y=15)
N401JR aircraft exported to Zim last month

[capt.moyo]

Kep Ten Jim
Maybe you should keep nose out of this, you do not know me, same as Napoleon does not know me, but we have common belief that this Avient is not good and has caused much trouble in the recent past. If we can help to bring these people to justice then so be it my friend. Until you have some constructive help, keep personal opinions to you. There is much here you do not know.

[AfgAirOps]

but we have common belief that this Avient is not good and has caused much trouble in the recent past. If we can help to bring these people to justice then so be it my friend.

Well said!

That is after all the point of this thread. Let's not demean it (the thread) by arguing. I'm sure there could be another one (or a PM discussion re the experiences of the S.A.A.F.).

Rgds
AAO

PS, Still hoping to read 'finnman's' comments............

[napoleon]

AfgAirOps Point taken. Lets try to do as you say.

[goma]

Interesting reading guys,have you all been fired from Avient or just couldnt get in??,wow havent you all got an axe to grind.
I invite any of you to come on the line and see the cargo and the routes and see if you can find ANYTHING dodgy,YOU WONT!!!!!!
Do you think the French would let them fly if it was even considered to be incorrect,i think not.
Any Zim crews out there ,why dont you apply instead of whinging,i believe they already have Zim guys with them and they are vvvv happy.
I personally meet all the inbound and outbound crews and they are vv professional guys who are just doing a good job.
And oh yes you say why do you never see the A/c in Zim?well with your countries track record of HUMAN RIGHTS and the incredible levels of corruption WHO WOULD.

OK guys now its my time for your flack,remember Avient in the Congo is NOT the same as Avient from Vatry France,same owner but utterly LEGAL.
Auvoir,Abientot,

CVs greatly accepted:= := := :=

[r3500vdp]

Looks like this discussion is getting a bit of exposure elsewhere.

http://yorkshire-ranter.********.com and search for Avient.

[BRISTOLRE]

Who is this "Yorkshire Ranter"? lots of historic threads on planes and gun running etc including some of the old dogs & missions at Ostend.

[doublestory]

Hi there Napoleon
Orwel's pig of the same name started with 'four legs good two legs bad', and then changed his mind... mmm
I would like to see things your way but not being a loadie, on standard dims, not sure whether both our heads could fit up your *rse at the same time.

Hey, my freinds scattered over canada too. And how many zam/mozam civi's remember the howl of a allouette K car. Which now civi boss did that?

When weee.... etc. but cannot condone - oeuns, I think Avient sould be given a chance. Why kill something african - would you rather have cv and mp and ba etc. running the fine blue skies.

In short maybe we should stop pawning to london rags, and stand up Africa

[FAJSFQMA]

I invite any of you to come on the line and see the cargo and the routes and see if you can find ANYTHING dodgy,YOU WONT!!!!!!
GT, I'm trying really quite hard to not sound nasty about this but..... I think you maybe need to open your eyes a little.
The next time you get a thick brown envelope to either take down-route (usually LOS) or back to Vatry have a look in it. Southbound are usually pictures of Benjamin Franklin & North-Bound such goodies as a pair of Nigerian passports (the gentlemen whose pictures were in the passports were not on the aircraft) with a note to Fat P. asking him to have them stamped with entry & exit stamps.
Do you think the French would let them fly if it was even considered to be incorrect,i think not.
I think it's probably more a case of the French not yet being aware of anything untowards happening on their pitch. After all, the article in the 'paper was about the dealings in the Congo, not from France.
Any Zim crews out there ,why dont you apply instead of whinging,i believe they already have Zim guys with them and they are vvvv happy.
Erm, if it's so good then why, as recently as 09 August were you looking for another job? (With SIA cargo after you hadn't got one with Saudia)
I personally meet all the inbound and outbound crews and they are vv professional guys who are just doing a good job.
In general yes. Shall we gloss-over the F/O who was, erm, 'let-go'?
And oh yes you say why do you never see the A/c in Zim?well with your countries track record of HUMAN RIGHTS and the incredible levels of corruption WHO WOULD.
It's interesting that you should say that given that you're flying a Zim registered aircraft with a Zim licence. I bet the CAA in Harare would love to see your comments.
OK guys now its my time for your flack,remember Avient in the Congo is NOT the same as Avient from Vatry France,same owner but utterly LEGAL.
Erm, so, can you please explain your reasoning over stating that Avient in the Congo is not the same as Avient from the UK (as of course they're not 'from' Vatry which is just a convenient spot for the aircraft). IMO it's bizarre that you say that and then in the same sentence confirm the same owner.
So, (supposedly) two companies, both called Avient, both owned by Andrew Smith but they're not the same company. Hmmmmmmmmm. To quote a rather poor joke, if it looks like dogsh*t, smells like dogsh*t & tastes like dogsh*t it's probably..... dogsh*t!
CVs greatly accepted:= := := :=
It's interesting to see a company which is quite so desperate for staff. So desperate they call people who have resigned and ask them to come back, or regularly phone someone else who has several times said 'no' and ask them to work for Avient.

[goma]

Sorry but think you got the wrong guy,know who your speaking about if he is a cpt??
I stand by my words and your obviously someone with lots of inside knowledge from what i can see,were you fired recently????
Luckily i dont fly but know all the guys who do,and standby what i say.

Yes and i know who you are now,its out the bag:= :=

[Kitoro Kid]

AMG are the sales agents for Avient in the UK , all they do is sell the detaintions Avient fly in Africa , they also represent other airlines , Avient from what I can see operate these days to the law since they have their own DC10 , but it was only a few years ago they were also involved with the Tristar freighter with no cargo door... how that was legal I will never know , still flying in BCAL colurs ,had a mishap in Mwanza I remember.. also still has biz calls at the front and no 9G net