What other Tertiary Qualifications do you have?

[AllInGoodTime]

Just wondering with people applying for Qantas, what other if any Tertiary qualifications outside of an aviation discipline did you have when appyling and did it help your application? Guess my questions is, do they look at you having a diverse back ground besides aviation training.

[NOtimTAMs]

I know of a few blokes with medical degrees on entry..:eek:

Does that help?

[AllInGoodTime]

Thanks for the response NOtimTAMs.

[The Messiah]

I have a BA in BS.

[Steve888]

I am in my first year of a B.Bus course and learning to fly at the same time. I've had many instructors saying any type of tertiary degree can help, and it also provides a back up in case things go wrong.

[Ultralights]

currently studying for a B.AE.

[18-Wheeler]

I'm also a racing driver.
That may not help me get the job though I suspect.

[Woomera]

Yes 18-Wheeler, we know your penchant for playing with fast automobiles!!! :} :}

But I think this thread is about academic qualifications, not use of disposeable income!!!!!!! :} :} :}

Have you finished that Fraser yet - or does work interfere with your hobby?

Sunny Woomera

[esreverlluf]

Don't know of any pilots with medical degrees in Qantas, but I have flown with several MBAs, an actuary, a vet and any number of science, engineering, economics and arts graduates during my time with the company (as well as all those bachelor of aviation people - whatever that is).

Not sure if any of the above qualifications would have helped or not with the application - I suspect they wouldn't, especially in the case of the more career focussed qualifications where any decent recruiter would want to make damn sure that the applicant is going to be comitted to the company and isn't going to walk back into their old career after a few years.

Having said all that though, if pilot wages and conditions continue to decline in this country, then perhaps we will see an exodus of pilots to other career paths.

[18-Wheeler]

Yes 18-Wheeler, we know your penchant for playing with fast automobiles!!! :} :}
But I think this thread is about academic qualifications, not use of disposeable income!!!!!!! :} :} :}
Have you finished that Fraser yet - or does work interfere with your hobby?
Sunny Woomera


Yes, it's been on the road for over a year now. Having a BALL with it. :)

Here it is on the track last year ->

http://www.billzilla.org/fraserrace2.jpg

Well okay, mostly on the track. :)

[Mr Crowe]

(as well as all those bachelor of aviation people - whatever that is).



esreverlluf,I am one of those bachelor of aviation people that you talk about. What do you mean by your comment - 'whatever that is'?..........

:=

[esreverlluf]

Mr Crowe - sorry - no offence intended, merely a throwaway line intimating that they are newer type of degree and not a traditional qualification that one would get from attending a "sandstone" university.

Also, a degree in aviation does not really qualify you for anything above or beyond an (ATPL + any other degree you care to mention). However, each to his own and as this topic has been done to death repeatedly on this forum and I will not be commenting further.

[disco_air]

"sandstone" university

UNSW is part of the Group of Eight (http://www.go8.edu.au/) so cant get much more sandstone. Bit of credit thanks. :hmm:

a degree in aviation does not really qualify you for anything above or beyond an (ATPL + any other degree you care to mention)

Thats right, it covers content from several degrees. At least mine does.

Interesting what kind of ideas people come up with about what aviation degrees actually are.

Agreed done to death, no further comment. :ugh:

..disco

[aviationmug]

Quote-"I know of a few blokes with medical degrees on entry..:eek:

Does that help?"


What the F@#K are people doing applying to airlines with a degree in Medicine???

Ok, lets see here. 17 hours on a 747, your life stuck in hotels and three marriages later. Or a local doctor, good pay, home every night.. Hmmmm, let see, what would i choose???:ugh:

[Ultralights]

Airline anyday!

[andrew495]

I'm with you Ultralights!:ok:

[Brayton Cycle]

Hey, my Bachelor of Aviation included, apart from Flight Crew Management, parts of Airport/Airline Management, Airport Planning, ATC and Air Power (Military). Now I would think if one fails his/her medical one day, that at least a BAv would still help you be within the aviation environment....maybe in Management like one of my mates has done.
Better a BAv then a medical or other degree...at least gives you a broader picture of what aviation actually involves and lets you appreciate the behind the scenes running of airlines/airports etc which most dont get out of just going through a normal flying school for a CPL.
Anyway, lots have been said about people with BAv so this is just my 2 cents worth. :ok:

[esreverlluf]

Hey Brayton - that's right - there's a queue of doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc out there just itching to trade in their degrees for a Bachelor of Aviation. . . .

Do you really want to be too close to the "aviation environment" if you can't drive the suckers? It's really about the only reason I can see to be anywhere near the airport.

UNSW - paahh - newcommers. That aint no sandstone, whatever you may think.

[lk978]

I have a Masters of Useless Knowledge (majoring in expert at all master of none)

[Toluene Diisocyanate]

Batchelor of Aviation = aviation equivalent of Batchelor of Arts = a means of wasting time and money ie not really relevant to anything:8

[Transition Layer]

Toluene Diisocyanate,

Batchelor of Aviation = aviation equivalent of Batchelor of Arts = a means of wasting time and money ie not really relevant to anything

Nice spelling...maybe you think these degrees are worthless, but at least it might give you a chance to hone your spelling skills!

(Just to point out where you went wrong, it's Bachelor, not Batchelor.

TL

[Ultralights]

Just curious, how many LAME's have or something higher than their LAME licences eg Bachelor of Aeronautical Engineering and its specialist catagories?

[disco_air]

Bachelor of Aviation = someone who has the education to know how to spell Bachelor

...sorry couldn't resist :p

...disco

[Hasselhof]

Hey Brayton - that's right - there's a queue of doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc out there just itching to trade in their degrees for a Bachelor of Aviation. . . .
Do you really want to be too close to the "aviation environment" if you can't drive the suckers? It's really about the only reason I can see to be anywhere near the airport.

Yeah, well its a two way street that isn't it. I did the whole flying bit, got the CPL, MECIR and flight instructors rating plus a couple of hundred hours of commercial experience up NT way. And now I've got a med school interview and I'm not looking back. Besides, four years spent trying to break into GA has got me used to the sort of wages I can expect as a student.

Enjoy

[ContactMeNow]

Batchelor of Aviation = aviation equivalent of Batchelor of Arts = a means of wasting time and money ie not really relevant to anything:8

Wouldn't that be the same as those people with medical degree's applying for QANTAS as pilots... i.e. a waste of time and money (if you are going to study that long in something so specialized and then become a pilot :8 )

And as for a BAv being a waste of time I think if you look at where all the graduates are now, the results speak for themselves :ok: barring all the tools that go through it :E

As with all degree's they are pretty pointless until you get the "on the job experience". When you do your medical degree you dont learn in 'surgury 1004' how to do a heart transplant. Same as with a degree in law; you dont spend any of the degree in court fighting a case...

A degree just arms you with the "theoretical knowledge" and an understanding of how a particular system works (be it the legal, medical, engineering, arts, business or aviation for the matter)

CONTACTMENOW :ok:

[esreverlluf]

Good for you Hasselhof - the very best of luck to you.

I think you'll find Austudy a better deal than GA!

[ContactMeNow]

Yeah, well its a two way street that isn't it. I did the whole flying bit, got the CPL, MECIR and flight instructors rating plus a couple of hundred hours of commercial experience up NT way. And now I've got a med school interview and I'm not looking back. Besides, four years spent trying to break into GA has got me used to the sort of wages I can expect as a student.

Enjoy

Im sure all the girls will love you. A pilot and a Doctor :}

[drshmoo]

ContactMeNow
Thats a tad presumptuous that Hasselhof is a boy.

I worked with a great girl who gave up on GA to go back to Med school - The "little general", good times:)


But aviationmug

"Ok, lets see here. 17 hours on a 747, your life stuck in hotels and three marriages later. Or a local doctor, good pay, home every night.. Hmmmm, let see, what would i choose???"

- what about 30+ hours at hospitals, life spent in wards dealing with CRM issues of their own (nurse, anesthetist, theatre assistants etc) not always home every night.
Good pay, yes. They are screaming for Rural doctors too. So both can work hard but only one gets to play with aeroplanes

[ContactMeNow]

ContactMeNow
Thats a tad presumptuous that Hasselhof is a boy.

I worked with a great girl who gave up on GA to go back to Med school - The "little general", good times:)


But aviationmug

"Ok, lets see here. 17 hours on a 747, your life stuck in hotels and three marriages later. Or a local doctor, good pay, home every night.. Hmmmm, let see, what would i choose???"

- what about 30+ hours at hospitals, life spent in wards dealing with CRM issues of their own (nurse, anesthetist, theatre assistants etc) not always home every night.
Good pay, yes. They are screaming for Rural doctors too. So both can work hard but only one gets to play with aeroplanes

girls = ladies = women..

[Brayton Cycle]

esreverlluf Hey Brayton - that's right - there's a queue of doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc out there just itching to trade in their degrees for a Bachelor of Aviation. . . .

Man, time to stop your medication. I never mentioned people should trade in their degrees for a BAv. However, if one wants to do a degree, why not a BAv instead of any others as it does include parts of management etc as well. (The costs though maybe a factor)

Do you really want to be too close to the "aviation environment" if you can't drive the suckers? It's really about the only reason I can see to be anywhere near the airport.

esreverlluf, now if say I was 45 and lose my medical, I would think it would be easier to get a job in Aviation, be it Management or whatever, than doing another course, which may take a couple of years, and then back to the drawing board of trying to get that first job to build experience....since I gather thats what you would do as you really dont like any other part of the Aviation industry apart from Flying (NOT driving!!).

I did it as I was thinking about tomorrow and not just today...never know what tomorrow might bring.

And could someone please tell me why alot of pilots put down other pilots with BAv?? Doesnt seem like a BAv holder comes to this site and starts a thread of "How great I am with a BAv"...normally its others who start Batchelor of Aviation = aviation equivalent of Batchelor of Arts = a means of wasting time and money ie not really relevant to anything

[GearInTransit]

While everyone seems so focused on Medical Qualifications, a few of my own views.......

..........after training for 14 years to reach the top in my chosen field, I work long and hard, but have a degree of autonomy, comfortable income and job security. Every day split-second decisions that I make determine whether people live or die.....but I'm trained for that and it causes me no undue stress. I don't work in a capital city, and for weekends and days off have an airfield and great aero club nearby. I own 2 GA aircraft, have a number of useful ratings, and get enormous pleausure out of my flying.

NOW..............read it again......am I a career pilot or a medical specialist?

10 points for the correct answer, and 10 points for the other one.

BTW drschmoo, you've got your CRM all wrong. In operating theatres the CRM is done by the Anaesthetist. The go/no go decisions are theirs, and they have to carry the can in an emergency whilst others are waving their arms about and screaming. The surgeon is the Ops manager trying to satisfy the 'customers' - the anaesthetist is the PIC trying to keep the whole thing flying safely.......they are not always the same thing.

Cheers

[Led Zep]

NOW..............read it again......am I a career pilot or a medical specialist?

Neither...you're a LAME. :} :ok:

[Keg]

For someone without tertiary qualifications a BAv is a nice way of getting a toe in the water with minimum effort. It doesn't take as long as any other degree if you get credit transfer and it enables you to go on and do just about anything else- MBA, MBuss, MComm, etc- with a minimum of fuss.

Besides that, it also enables me to know when my employer are implimenting policy that is tried, tested and backed up by research or when it's a hack writing policy on the fly. :E

[compressor stall]

It is a sad sign of the times when people think tertiary degrees are only good or useful in order to get a job. We live in a much poorer, blander society for it.

There are many skills gained in a university environment that are more important than the subject matter: essay writing; analytical skills and research skills to name a few. This fact is sadly overlooked in the tertiary education argument.

PPRuNe would actually appear to be professional had many of its contributors had other education beyond ATPL theory. It might have taught these people to rationally constuct arguments in discussion or if that's still too much, at least spell. What appears on here is generally not indicitive of professionals. And I don't mean small spelling mistakes, I mean appalling sentence construction and grammar. Imagine the difficulty many pilots would have if the ATPL exams required longhand answers. It might have promoted a deeper understanding in some areas of the course, and also promoted some communication skills that are sorely needed amongst many.

As for the Bachelor of Aviation, there is nothing inherently wrong with the degree. However if one compared a person who had completed the BAv with another who had completed all ATPL/CIR subjects at a flying school as well as a three year bachelor degree at a tertiary institution (Arts, Medicine, Business, it does not really matter) then the latter person will have more skills and a broader knowledge base to bring to a flying job.

Will it make them a better stick and rudder pilot? Probably not. Could they bring non flying skills into the flying company workplace? Yes, there is a greater chance of that.

It is for this reason that at my sandstone pedagoguery science students were encouraged to take a philosophy subject for a semester. It was not to memorise Cartesian dualism; rather to learn the skills that are required to reason and construct an argument. After all a scientist has to reason and argue when s/he writes a paper. And I have had to do the same as a pilot many times.

[Gyro drifter]

Next question...

Is a Ba science (aviation) any better than a Bav.

And no they are not the same...

[Toluene Diisocyanate]

It might have taught these people to rationally constuct arguments in discussion or if that's still too much, at least spell. What appears on here is generally not indicitive of professionals.

Laughing my arse off, Stallie http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/1356.gifhttp://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/671.gifhttp://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/667.gif

[Pinky the pilot]

An interesting thread indeed, with some diverse opinions!:ok:
I'm literally a High School dropout, well a private school dropout actually which is probably considered worse.(I failed the Leaving Certificate twice. Year 11 to you young types.) Many years ago, an acquaintance of mine whom was once a Lawyer and now is a Magistrate used to be rather scathing of some University graduates, referring to them as 'educated ****wits'

I often wondered what he meant. Unfortunately, now with the passing years I find the meaning all too obvious.:sad:

As for what I would like to do now, if I finally found that I could no longer hold a Flight Crew Licence I think I'd like to go and do an Oenology Degree. I think that I'd be a reasonable red wine maker eventually.:ok: :ok:

[BrokenConrod]

PhD (Piled higher and deeper)

[podbreak]

What the F@#K are people doing applying to airlines with a degree in Medicine???

Ok, lets see here. 17 hours on a 747, your life stuck in hotels and three marriages later. Or a local doctor, good pay, home every night.. Hmmmm, let see, what would i choose???:ugh:

Yeah but then again you clearly don't know that much about being a doctor. A local doctor? yeah after 10-15 years of working in hospitals doing longer shifts than those LA flights and getting bugger all sleep, not great pay (certainly comparable only to a junior SOs), and generally working your ring off. Not to mention the way the work winds its way into the rest of your life, with horrible cases and things that'll affect you for the rest of your life... And some will say, what about the specialists who earn a packet to consult? yeah well, by the time you reach that you would have had your command in an airline, be senior enough to write your rosters, and be damn comfortable. A pilot can leave his work at the office. THATS why there are ex medical professionals in this industry. 17 hours stuck in a hospital, blood-and-guts images in your head, 3 marriages later (yeah, pilots aren't the only ones). Or an airline pilot, good pay, home for weeks on end, cushy job... Hmmmm, lets see, what would i choose???:ugh:

[Hasselhof]

Well, I don't know about all that podbreak.

Lets see.... on a good week as a junior instructor I'd take home about $250 after tax (and those were the good weeks mind you, when there was actual flying to be done... don't get me started on the impact of the wet season on VFR instruction) and during all that time I worked my maximum 90hrs /pf duty. Add in six 8.5 hour shifts pumping petrol to make the difference.

Total after tax income would have been roughly $1000 a fortnight for what would average out to 10 hours work a day 7 days a week (oh yeah, and this was all casual with no holiday or sick pay).

Now lets compare that to a graduating doctors wage working for Queensland Health (http://www.health.qld.gov.au/medical/packages/RMO.pdf).

Base Salary $1981.98 pf

QHealth now has a mandate for maximum of 14 hour shifts, and I don't know any RMO's that work anywhere near that with any regularity. (Keep in mind I'm currently working as an assistant nurse at a major hospital and as a consequence now my share of RMO's). Not to mention that these figures don't include any allowances such as vocational training subsidy, leave loading or any overtime pay (which of course adds up nicely when those 14 hour shifts do kick in).


Now I'll be the first to admit that I was getting shafted in GA, but those are the breaks and thats the job I got. Its not reflective of most peoples experience, but after four years of hard slog, you can see why a guaranteed 60k as a new grad is tempting. And it only goes up from there :ok:

As far as the blood and guts and horrible images go, but what about the good times? When it all comes together and you can actually make a difference?. And how does that compare to the handful of ex jet drivers that I've met over the years that have had one close shave too many and as a result now remain grounded? Or having to deal with the deaths of good friends at the controls of a bugsmasher in the middle of nowhere with no explanation that might ease any pain? You take the good with the bad, its part of the job I guess, no matter what field your in.

It'd be a shame to see this thread drop into a fight of pro's and con's of various professions vs. aviation, its been going so well. What I would find interesting though is to see if any people out there have gone the further study route in combination with flying. Have people done any other degrees just for interest? as a backup? for the challenge?

[bushy]

It's funny. People complain about the low pay rates spelled out in the gA award, but many insist on working for much less, undermining the system, and generally degrading GA. Such behaviour encourages the poorer operators who exploit new pilots.
The sooner the multi crew pilot licence comes along the better. Airline pilots are mainly flying technicians these days, and GA flying is becoming less and less relevent every day.
It's time the major airlines stopped exploiting GA, and did some of their own pilot training, or at least did provisional selecting before the wannabies spent their big bucks on flying training. so they would know where they are going (or not going). And the flood of prostitute pilots would stop.
And GA would have some experienced, career pilots again, getting paid reasonable wages.
It's time this obscene lottery stopped.


A realist is alwys hated. Particularly in a society of hustlers.
(Gore Vidal)