ATPL Ground study material: books, DVDs, computer programs etc. [Archive]

VC10 Rib22

17th Jan 2006, 20:23

Air Law - 18 Annexes - Not too difficult to learn but if you are struggling......
'Personnel Licensing'.....that's us, and we are always the most important, hence No.1
Pilots are trained never to stick TWO fingers up at the 'Rules Of The Air'.....No.2
Met Services......think of freezing......threezing......No.3
'Aeronautical Charts'....think 'JEPY', which has four letters in it.....No.4
'Units Of Measurement'.....My favourite unit is a pint of lager, which I hold in my right hand, using its FIVE digits...No.5
For some, the 'Operation Of Aircraft' can lead to lots of sex (SIX)......No.6
'Aircraft Nationality And Registration Marks'......Found on the wing, fuselage and vertical surfaces of all the aircraft that take you to warmer climes, to swim in various SEAS.....think of the SEVEN SEAS OF RHYE by Queen.........No.7
'Airworthiness Of Aircraft'......Airworthiness starts with an 'A'. Only one number sounds like it starts with an 'A'......EIGHT........No.8
'Facilitation'.....This is passengers and cargo......Think of a nasty German customs agent refusing you entry......NINE!!!!........No.9
'Aeronautical Telecommunications'......Telecommunications makes you think of a telephone. When you rotate your head 90 degrees to the left the number '10' looks like a telephone, with the '1' being the handset and the '0' being the main body of the telephone.........No.10
'Air Traffic Services' . These people are in constant communication with pilots in the sky by using VHF, so think of the number '11', with both '1's pointing upwards transmitting the necessary information........No.11
Before any accident investigation can begin 'Search And Rescue' confirms there has been an accident......'12' comes before '13'..........................No.12
'Aircraft Accident Investigation' -It hasn't been your day, you've been very unlucky, like the number '13'.........No.13
'Aerodromes' - SIR SEEWOOSAGUR RAMGOOLAM INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT.....................Mauritius's premier aerodrome, with a name not to forget, insists that jet aircraft use runway '14', so don't forget......No.14
'Aeronautical Information Services'....Abbreviated gives 'AIS'.......Imagine the 'I' and 'S' are instead a '1' and '5'........No.15
You become an adult when you are 16, and being an adult means you accept adult responsibilities.....like 'Environmental Protection'.........No.16
'Security'.......Essential.......Add the number of letters in both words together gives '17'.........No.17
'The Safe Transport Of Dangerous Goods By Air'.........If not adhered to, it could be the LAST flight you make. LAST of all the Annexes........No.18
VC10 Rib22
:ok:

Alex Whittingham

17th Jan 2006, 20:42

Not mnemonics but some useful revision notes from one of my students, aka puntosaurus here (http://www.jals.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1169&highlight=puntosaurus)

-IBLB-

17th Jan 2006, 20:43

INSTRUMENTS:
ANDS: Accelerate North, Decellerate South (compass accel error)

RADIO:
Very Lonely Men Have Very Unusual Sexual Experiences
VHF LF MF HF VHF UHF SHF EHF

VC10 Rib22

18th Jan 2006, 10:02

kissmysquirrel,
Annex 18 is NOT the only Annex that is asked for.
VC10 Rib22
:ok:

zakpeegoodus

27th Jan 2006, 12:10

Can anyone recommend some good JAA ATPL theory books?

Prior to deciding on a full-time or distance learning course I would like to get a head start with some study.

Second hand or new, it doesn’t matter – but I need to have them mailed to me. Any suggestions?

Thanks.

flybyshark

27th Jan 2006, 12:17

you can try ebay for past students selling their old books, I know Oxfords were bought by several of the guys on our modular ground school and we were at another school!

Not surprising as they had colour pictures!! ours didnt, which makes it difficult when explaining EFIS.............

You can also try to get hold of the CD-roms, again, Oxfords Met disk was used by most us for revision at our ground school, in fact I used it to pass the subject from scratch.

Bristols distance learning package is supposed to be great, but I am not sure if you need the online support for it.

rons22

27th Jan 2006, 21:21

I am about to study ATPL DL and since there is a lot to learn, I wonder if you could recommend some good resources for exam preparation. For example, if you were studying ATPL again, which books/websites would you use the most and is there any particular studying techniques you'd recommend?

Also, how similar is real CAA paper to practice papers that you get from schools or on some websites with question banks?

When I did my PPL I found the paper to be much tougher than questions in PPL confuser etc. Primary reason being the CAA phrasing of questions. In fact, PPL confuser was far less confusing than CAA papers. :ok:

Many thanks in advance for you answers.

Noiseboy

27th Jan 2006, 21:51

Lots of questions at www.aviationexam.com

Hope that helps
Cheers

Noiseboy

27th Jan 2006, 21:58

'JAR professional pilot studies' by Phil Croucher will give you an idea of what you are getting into.

Charlie Zulu

28th Jan 2006, 10:10

Should be first on the list for anyone taking the exams:

Bristol Online Question Bank
http://213.48.96.23/atponline/jalo/index.asp

Books:

Aircraft Performance Theory for Pilots
P.J. Swatton
ISBN 0-362-05569-3

For the Technical aspect of the course:

The Commercial Pilots Study Manual
Mike Burton
Volume 1 - 4
ISBN 1-85310-779-4
ISBN 1-85310-780-8
ISBN 1-85310-781-6
ISBN 1-85310-782-4

Navigation type of the course:

Ground Studies for Pilots
R.B. Underdown
I only have Volume 1 and 2 but there are 4 in the series.

Last but not least:

Oxford Aviation / Meteorological Office "Meteorology for Pilots CBT"

Blinkz

28th Jan 2006, 10:52

I can recommend OATs books, they are very easy to read and have good diagrams in them, altho I haven't read any others so can't make comparisons. I also found OATs feedback to be excellent and right on the money, had seen the majority of the questions in the phase 1 exams before. I also found the school exams to be harder then the JAA ones, which is always a good thing. I've only done phase 1 (Systems, Instruments, Met, PoF, Comms x2 and HP) so can't comment on phase 2 yet....

gblen

2nd Feb 2006, 21:29

blinkz.whats the deal with the rude words in the oxford books? fast erection system for example, or the erection button. i found them rude but still good.pictures were bright too. feedback is good but i relied on it too much and failed all my exams. oops. had to drop out of my distance learning and am working in my local pub making the scones.
see ya:ok:

smith

2nd Feb 2006, 22:55

The Glasgow College of Nautical studies notes are excellent!!

dontpressthat

9th Feb 2006, 23:42

I have to agree with the majority here.. OAT's books are superb, very well written and illustrated. Combined with the CD-ROM's its a great learning package.
The feedback Q's are also very very good (when i was there 04/05) for all sujects, but there really is no sustitute for knowing the subject inside out.

Having said that, there are a couple of the 'less demanding' subjects (comsx2,hp,law,) that feedback alone will get you through... should i say that?? hhhmmm not sure but its true.

DPT

charliejulietthotel

11th Feb 2006, 11:51

Maybe not books, but an instructor called Steve Francis, he teaches Met and Performance, he's absolutely brilliant, takes a difficult subject and makes it so easy to understand, which from some books make the same subject so dam hard to understand.

Yebo

12th Feb 2006, 11:29

Hi,

I did my prep using Jeppesen JAA ATPL set, £750 including the airway manual. I find it very well set up, easy to follow tests and grafics.
Took me about 2 months self-study to be ready for exams. Passed all in one go.

Yebo

boogie-nicey

20th Feb 2006, 15:55

Was hoping you could help me out with a bit of dilema I'm currently having. I have recently read through the aircraft systems and electrical manuals from Oxford Aviation. However the manuals seemed a little too deep at times especially when I attempted to some general feedback questions. Are the manually deliberately written to be more involved than some of the questions or is it just an Oxford thing to go into subject matter too deep just to be distinctive from other providers i.e. BGS and FlyAFT?

I had a brief look through the Jeppesen manuals and they seemed a touch more digestible without overcooking the subject matter in other words I found them concise. I just want to pass the exams for now and would like to know which is more practical and which is well how can I put it .... a little self serving at times.

Of course one thing's for sure the Oxford attitude has let me down on 3 separate occassions so from that perspective I really don't think they score many points (I'm a very easy going chap and not demanding or overbearing on others).

Any help will be much appreciated.

:)

benhurr

20th Feb 2006, 16:51

A totally personal point of view so I apologise for any offence the following may cause:

1. Do you wish to learn the subject?

2. Do you wish to pass the ATPL exams?

If 1. read the books in their entirety.

If 2. get decent feedback.

A lot of what you learn during ATPL's can be flushed down the toilet, BUT a lot of the subject matter does prove to be useful later on. (type ratings, for example).

Passing the exams will leave you a lot to learn if you dont know the subject in the depth described in the course books.

Just my opinion, feel free to flame.

JB007

20th Feb 2006, 18:39

Our found the Oxford books superb BECAUSE of their attention to detail, if you can stick with OAT's books - I would. As benhurr said, they've become a very useful source of info since passing the exams....and his questions are valid!

boogie-nicey

21st Feb 2006, 08:42

Many thanks chaps, I like so many pilots out there want to have my cake and eat it too i.e. I sincerely wish to learn and pass my ATPL exams.

Though I was able to get through the Oxford books it felt that I wasn't making as much progress as I felt I should have. Obviously this is just a gut feeling and how would I really know what rate of progress I should be making but it was like perhaps someone had left the handbrake partially on.

I love to read and study but wished to strike an effective balance between practically and 'bureacracy of academia'

Anyway thanks once again and I shall certainyl take your points onboard.

scroggs

21st Feb 2006, 10:27

The course manuals (not just Oxford's) are written to give you a reasonably full understanding of the subject at hand. The examinations are intended to check that your understanding is sound. For fairly obvious reasons exams cannot ever test all of your knowledge and the idiosyncratic style of the CAA seems often to be testing your understanding of the CAA's version of English rather than the subject, but that's not Oxford's fault!

What they and most schools try and do is to give you the knowledge then use the question banks to apply the knowledge in the way the CAA wants it done.

Scroggs

boogie-nicey

21st Feb 2006, 12:57

thank you Mr. Scroggs :O

alexflynn86

22nd Feb 2006, 11:06

I know I will be doing my ATPL either this year or the next, and wondered if it's worth getting the ATPL manuals now, do a bit of extra reading and get a bit of a head start. My main concern is, I've noticed a few have different years of publication... If I were to get some that were printed in say, 2004, would there be a great difference in ones that are printed more recently?

Your advice would be great!
Regards,
Alex

charliejulietthotel

22nd Feb 2006, 11:32

From all the 14 subjects, the only book I wish I had before starting my course was the air law book. I felt it was written for lawyers not training pilots, which made the subject even more harder therefore spending too much time on law compared to other subjects such as nav or performance. Only my thoughts.

Daft Wader

23rd Feb 2006, 16:46

Due to some over zealous purchasing by helpful family members I have some OAT books ( unused) that I would consider approaches for ( no low ones though!)
Contact me directly
Brgds
Daft Wader

dwshimoda

24th Feb 2006, 07:36

I know I will be doing my ATPL either this year or the next, and wondered if it's worth getting the ATPL manuals now

Alex - definitely do it - that's what I did, and so far it has made life a lot easier!

TJF97

24th Feb 2006, 16:04

This is probably a "stewpid" question, but do you have to attend a school to do your ATPL studying? I know Oxford in association with Transair and Atlantic Flight Training in association with Jeppesen both produce there own study books, can't I just buy them for say £500 - £700 pounds and study from them? Then do the exams or do I have to study via a full time course or distance learning??

TJF97

mungo_55

24th Feb 2006, 16:37

TJF97 - I'm fairly certain the CAA require you to be on an approved distance learning or classroom based course, unless you have an exemption. I'm not too sure what would qualify you for an exemption, you could try checking with the CAA or one of the ground schools like Bristol Ground School.

Yebo

24th Feb 2006, 17:13

You must follow an aproved theory course. I sugest you choose your school before spend money on books.

paco

25th Feb 2006, 01:13

You need to get a sign off from a school saying that you have done the studying before you can sit the exam, otherwise life would be so simple.

alexflynn86 -

Check out noiseboy's post above for a book that is designed for just your purpose.

Phil

alexflynn86

26th Feb 2006, 08:07

Thanks, I will look into getting that book, unless anyone has a spare copy they wish to 'donate'. :O Is there a great difference between the OAT manuals and the Jepessen ones? I'm rather tempted by the OAT because I have some CD-roms by them, which are tres bien.

longobard

26th Feb 2006, 10:07

I have a brand new spare complete set of JAA Jeppesen ATPL manuals made by OAT.

Anyone interested in excellent discount?

Send me an email at [email protected]

Airborne16

27th Feb 2006, 15:04

There are quite a few JAA ATPL theory books on eBay at the moment.

I saw the PJ Swatton one that was mentioned earlier and a set of Mike Burtons also.

european champion

22nd Mar 2006, 17:37

I am thinking to buy a dvd for instrument training,i saw one called Elite in a pilot shop in London but its a bit expensive,its around 185 pounds.Anyone knows if i could find it somewhere else cheaper?Do you think its worth its money?Any other dvd recommended?

jetsun

25th Mar 2006, 13:00

I'm looking to do my IR very soon and have one burning question.

Would it be frowned upon by airlines etc. if I got a single engine IR first.

I currently fly commercially in singles at the moment anyway.

Would acquiring a multi engine rating AFTER passing a single engine IR automatically give you a multi-engine IR?

Surely flying a suitably equipped simple single like a C172 would increase chances of that much revered 1st-time IR pass.

Sounds too easy. Surely there's a catch.

I'd love any feedback from those in the know...

Cheers.

GusHoneybun

25th Mar 2006, 13:35

to answer your points

airlines wouldn't give a hoot whether you did a single IR first or not. all they want is that you hold a current multi IR.

if you got a MEP rating this does NOT give you multi IR privileges. you need to sit a 15 hour course to add multi engine to a single engine IR.

having a SE IR will help with your ME IR. however, the two are not really that similar with the hardest part being all the single engine asymetric (sp?) work.

if i was you, i would bite the bullet and get the ME IR initally. works out cheaper and gives you the SE IR privileges as well

clarityinthemurk

25th Mar 2006, 15:28

I have heard this “15 Hours” rumour before, and do not believe it to be correct.
Both JAR FCL 1 and Lasors 2006 clearly state that conversion from a JAA SE/IR to a JAA ME/IR may be achieved as follows
- hold a mutli-engine rating, or have completed the flight instruction for same
- undertake 5 hours ME(IR) training, up to 3 of which may be in an FNPT II
Now that’s a lot cheaper than the 15 hours you have quoted!
I think the 15 hour course refers to those wishing to convert from an ICAO ME/IR to a JAA ME/IR. It wouldn’t be that some schools are seeking to benefit from this misunderstanding, would it? :)

finals24

26th Mar 2006, 07:01

I believe that it is a minimum of 5 hours. In reality it is likely to be longer depending on your own ability. In my opinion, the most stressful points of the IRT are the EFATO section, asymetric hold, approach and go-around.
You would do very well to complete in 5 hours. Also don't forget the cost of the test.

sps1013

4th May 2006, 19:39

I am looking for comments and suggestions as to which MEP book to buy before commencing my MEP course.

Any views greatly appreciated.

sps

no sponsor

4th May 2006, 19:51

I looked at two, but went for the R.D. Campbell book, mainly on the recommendation of my instructors.

FlyingForFun

4th May 2006, 20:48

Whichever your school suggests.

They all contain near enough the same material, so best to pick the one which your instructors know best, so they can help you with any questions.

FFF
----------------

IRRenewal

4th May 2006, 21:11

Many books out there cover the same information in comparable formats. Use the one your school suggest, and have a look at John Denker's 'See how it flies' for some background information. Always worth a read as he often puts a different spin on things.
http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/multi.html

volare_737

8th May 2006, 16:46

Hi all.
Just testing the water. I hold an ICAO ATP and want to get a JAR licence.
I believe I have to writte all 14 exams.
Does anybody out there ( or does anybody know anybody) sell used Study notes ????
Any help with this is greatly appreciated.

Nk8047

8th May 2006, 17:16

Hey there even if u buy used study guides i think ull have to get some official groundschool (distance learning or inhouse in order to be able to sit in the exams )The price of most of the Ground schools will inlcude study guides. Hope this will help

volare_737

8th May 2006, 17:22

Thanks NK. I got enough hours, so I dont have to go to groundschool. Checked allready with CAA in england. Just have to writte the exams. At the moment I stay in Rsa, therefore I am looking for some notes to study here and then pop over and writte.

potkettleblack

8th May 2006, 18:57

Do yourself a favour and sign up to BGS. Get their notes sent over to you and then use the ATP website to run through the actual questions you are likely to get for the exams. Included in your fees for the BGS notes are the brush up courses which run for a few weeks prior to the exams which you would be silly not to take advantage of. If you want to see what you will be up against then go onto the BGS website and see examples of the types of questions that JAA have here:

http://www.jals.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=24

Whirlygig

8th May 2006, 19:03

I believe that both Bristol and Oxford will sell the manuals separately for people in this situation (i.e. who don't need to prove a certain number of hours theoretical study).

Cheers

Whirls

Woof etc

13th May 2006, 20:54

I'm in a similar situation, ie. don't need approved course. Bristol offers all their notes on CD for 350 pounds. You can also buy the printed notes seperately with no brush up course for 1100 pounds. I figure you can do a lot of printing for 750 pounds!

The brush up courses cost around 400 pounds for each 2 week course if you want to do these seperately. Considering the exams cost 80 pounds a pop to write, plus accom and flights in your case, it might be worth considering doing these.

mcgoo

13th May 2006, 21:14

actually woof it's a bit cheaper than that, the BGS manuals are £85 each and there is 7 of them and the current exam prices are £60 each.

Woof etc

14th May 2006, 06:35

woops. Exams 60 pounds each - rip off nonetheless.

I was quoted 1100 pounds by BGS for the manuals sans brush up courses.

mcgoo

14th May 2006, 09:24

If you look on the BGS website on the prices page at the bottom, it says "buying the course in bits" and quotes £85 per manual, they probably quoted you including the manuals on CD which would work out about £1100

chrisbl

14th May 2006, 11:38

keep a look out on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JAA-ATPL-Reference-material-26000-actual-questions_W0QQitemZ9517161353QQcategoryZ4783QQrdZ1QQcmdZView Item

rayden1206

22nd May 2006, 18:28

Dear all

My son will start an intergrated course in October for the Frozen ATPL because due to some business obligations cant any earlier. He asked me for his birthday present a complete set of ATPL manual to start reading on his own and have an idea before he starts training.

I went to buy them as a present and I found that there are many of them and every salesman has its own opinion. One says buy the Oxford ones, because the books have 8000 pages with everything very detailed inside. Other say Jeppesen are the most current in the market and easy to study.Others say that Cranfield are the most easy to pass the exams. I also been presented of a Nordian set of books.

Because I dont know anything about them can anybody help me with the advantages and the disadvantages of each of the mentioned ATPL manuals (OXFORD,JEPPESEN,CRANFIELD,NORDIAN).

My opinion till now is that Cranfield seem a little bit patchwork. OXFORDs 8000 pages seem too big and someone that wants to have an idea of everything (not a comprehensive learning) in a 4 months period may be descouraged of the big mass of pages.

Your help will be much appreciated.

Best regards
Dr. Ray

mcgoo

22nd May 2006, 18:36

personally i would have waited, there are surely going to be manuals included in the course he will be doing, could you not ask the school for the manuals in advance rather than have to get 2 sets?

however i attended bristol ground school and found there manuals excellent

www.bristol.gs

BOZZATO

22nd May 2006, 18:44

Hello there:ok:

If your son is starting an integrated course he should really be getting the manuals free as part of the course. I am currently a student at Oxford so am biased, i do think the manuals are really informative, however, i wouldn't recommend reading them without the top class tuition that one recieves from the instructors, especially here at Oxford! In fact it can be quite daunting when you first see the manuals!

I would recommend revising maths and physics. Oh yeah and for him to enjoy himself before he embarks on his course, because it's going to be a tough course, especially the groundschool and unfortunately the only socialising he'll be doing is with his atpl manuals.

Hope this helps

Bozzato:ok:

helicopter-redeye

22nd May 2006, 21:14

If you buy him ANOTHER set of manuals then you are adding to the study load.

Why not buy a CRP5 Navigation Slide Rule or a subscription to the on-line question bank?

The Q Bank would allow him to see the style and focus of the questions. The CRP5 is expensive (for what it is) so would be a valuable present that would remain in service when active as a pilot, so a better 'keepsake' as well.

h-r;)

dfspilot

22nd May 2006, 21:51

I WOULD AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT THE PREVIOUS POSTS HAVE SAID AND YOU WILL GET LOADS OF ADVICE ON WHICH MANUALS ARE BEST FROM WHICH SCHOOL BUT I WOULD THINK ABOUT THE FOLLOWING
1 DOES HE HAVE A PPL AND IF NOT WHY NOT GET HIM AT LEAST UP TO BASICS BY LOOKING AT AFE OR TREVOR THOM PPL MANUALS WHICH CAN BE BOUGHT ON EBAY VERY CHEAPLY.
2 TO HELP HIS KNOWLEDGE, OXFORD DO A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF CD ROMS ON MOST SUBJECTS WHICH ARE INVALUABLE, EXAMPLES ARE MET, CRP 5 WHICH I WOULD SAY HE WOULD DEFINETELY NEED( MAKE SURE ITS NOT CRP 1 AS THIS WILL BE NO USE TO HIM FOR ATPL STUDY) IFR AND VFR COMS, IS HIS MATHS AND PHYSICS UP TO SCRATCH, IF NOT THE MATHS AND PHYSICS CD ROMS ARE EXCELLENT, PISTON ENGINES, OR THERE IS THE COMPLETE SET FOR PPL USE WHICH WOULD GIVE HIM A GOOD GROUNDING IN MOST OF THE SUBJECTS.
3 BRISTOL MANUALS ARE EXCELLENT AND HAVE A BRILLIANT CD ROM COVERING ALL THE SUBJECTS FOR ATPL LEVEL AND YOU CAN BUY THIS FOR £350.00 SEPERATELY, BUT CRP 5 INSTRUCTION IS NOT AS GOOD AS OXFORDS.
4 I THINK BUYING MANUALS IS OK BUT THE CD ROMS ARE A BETTER BET AS HE CAN USE THESE TO SUPPLEMENT HIS MANUALS FROM WHATEVER INTEGTATED PROVIDER HE GETS HIS MANUALS FROM.
ANYWAY THIS IS ONLY AN OPINION AND I AM SURE YOU WILL GET PLENTY OF FEEDBACK ON THIS TOPIC. TELL HIM GOOD LUCK WITH HIS STUDIES AND IF YOU REQUIRE MORE INFO JUST POST YOUR REPLY ON THIS SITE.

rayden1206

22nd May 2006, 22:59

Thank you all

You are very helpful but the problem is the following:

1) He now finishes a Bachelor in applied physics so there is no need to revise maths or physics at all

2) He is a PPL

4) The integrated course he will attend is with Bristol GS into the price and he doesnt want them twice.

5) Most important: He asked for this manuals and I wanted to surprize him.

So now can you please tell me the pros and the cons between Jeppesen,Oxford,Cranfield and Nordian ATPL manuals in order not to just throw 600pound.

Thank you all for your immediate replies!

Best regards!!!

Dr. Ray

Gordon Bennet

22nd May 2006, 23:51

I used Phil Croucher's JAR Professional Pilot Studies for a good convenient overview (covers ATPL) - I also saw a PPL version if you don't want to go that high. No question workbook as yet.

G

scroggs

23rd May 2006, 08:18

Dr Ray There isn't a student in existence, and precious few instructors, who has studied the various different schools' manuals in order to make an objective assessment of their relative merits, so you have absolutely no chance of getting a reliable answer to your question.

Of the publishers you mention, all provide excellent information for the examination system they are designed to service. Pooley's sell at least three of the four you mention, so why don't you ask them what they think? They're bound to have a few instructors in their staff who've compared the books.

That said, the point made above by several of your respondants is valid: why buy them at all? The course your son has contracted for will include all the relevant manuals, and I'm sure BGS will provide them in advance if requested to do so. It seems to me that you're hoping that spending extra money now will help your son's chances in the examinations later. If you want to do that, get him some private tuition. I'm sure it's available to those with enough cash, and I would think that whatever study materials are required could be provided. However, I think you'll find that the BGS course and a fair bit of work on your son's part will be quite sufficient to pass the exams.

As your son is still studying at Uni, don't you think he deserves a bit of a break before he takes on the huge workload of the ATPLs? Spend the money on a holiday for him!

Scroggs

FFP

23rd May 2006, 10:19

I have to agree with Scroggs and the other posters

DON'T BUY MULTIPLE ATPL NOTES

If he's signed up with Bristol GS, the notes he will get along with the tuition will see him good. He / You have made a good choice there. I did all 14 exams with them, first time passes in all. An excellent school in my opinion.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but neither you or your son have experience of the ATPL theory process and when those that have tell you not to buy multiple sets, they do so from experience. It's merely duplication and they will say the same things, albeit from a slightly diferent perspective.

This game is expensive enough as it is. I would put the money towards a CRP5, online question bank from BGS, accom and food on the crammer and any left over to go on the flying afterwards.

Good luck to your son. It's hard work, much harder than a degree in my opinion (Mech Eng at least !!!)

rayden1206

23rd May 2006, 11:35

Thank you all !!!

You were very helpful. I thing it would be best to buy some other things and not these manuals.

Another matter came into my mind during this reseach. And I cannot understand it.

Oxford books are in total 8000 pages. Jeppesen are in total 4000.

I am a layer living in Greece and I know from my studies back in the Univeristy days that the subjects are several and whatever edition I could choose the number of pages etc would be more or less the same.

In aviation doesnt happens the same? How it happens and Oxford manuals and course is 8000 pages, and Jeppesen is half at the same price? I cant understand this at all.

I am not the potential pilot but as a parent I am trying to understand the whole concept.Could somebody explain why there is no certain amount of reading and studying and what is the difference of 4000 pages????

From my point of view its either a marketing way of Oxford to make you follow their course and school, or if not then Jeppesen doent contain everything somebody needs to know...

Cant understand it at all. 4000 pages is a H U G E difference and I will not ask of the volume of the other brands.

Please help me with that, I will be very grateful once more!

Best regards

Dr. Ray

JohnPetrucci

23rd May 2006, 11:58

Rayden, i wish i have a parent like you. Off-topic!:D

rayden1206

23rd May 2006, 12:23

My son created an accnount in PPrune and that "rayden" is from a game he plays in Playstation which I dont know the name.

I only use this account for my research.

John Pertucci if you be a parent and your son after 25 years of his life (which contain 4 year at the University and 2 in the army everything paid by me) and before earning a penny, asks you for 75.000 - 90000 Euros for becoming a pilot be sure that you would do a B I G research of where your money go, and If every penny worths to try... and you would love to hear every detail of the matter called aviation-atpl-books-manuals etc....

Regards

Dr. Ray

dfspilot

23rd May 2006, 12:29

as someone who attended oxford there are a few reasons for this though it doesnt completely explain 4000 pages.
1 oxford have a huge amount of quizzes and therefore questions and so alot of additional pages in each manual.
2 oxford have a lot of cap booklets built into their manuals in relevant subjects
3 oxford have an extra manual that is called reference material which in itself is quite a large manual.
4 there are quite a lot of graphics in the oxford manual which take up a lot of extra pages.
5 most of the other manual suppliers have 2 manuals for the subject of aircraft general , oxford have 3 manuals.
6 oxford go into far more detail in their manuals than most of the others i have seen.
hope this all helps

rayden1206

23rd May 2006, 12:37

Dear all please dont forget to reply me of the reason why Oxford manuals are 4000 pages more than Jeppesen which I totally cant undrestand

Dr. Ray

theschultx

23rd May 2006, 15:54

I do believe dfspilot just did so...

nosher

23rd May 2006, 16:17

Hi Raydon1206,
Here's my 2 cent's!
Your son is 25 years of age,dont you think he's a bit old to be asking ''Daddy'' for a birthday present?
Im guessing from the sound of things, he's still living at home with the parent's!

How about telling him to get a job,save up,and pay for the course himself!!!

boogie-nicey

23rd May 2006, 16:32

Nosher:

Is that kind of comment really necessary the thread was about ATPL manuals and as far as I can see has nothing to do with funding, living arrangements or anything else.

Besides aviation training is on the same par if not more than setting up a business and you'd certainly seek funding for that from various sources including banks. They would also charge you interest during the early phases of your business. Yet most experts also mention that family funding is an excellent source because of the flexibility and willingness (mostly) of family to help. Therefore maybe the Doctor's son is doing the right thing and then later on in life can repay his father with more than just money.

rayden1206

23rd May 2006, 17:51

Dear Nocher

Every country and people has its own culture. I know that in U.S. and U.K. and mostly northern Europe the most common thing is that kids after school take from parents their first money and leave home to go for studies work and make their own way in lie. I will not judge if this is good or bad. Its just a difference.

In Greece and Southern Italy as I know its a common thing that kids until they get married live in their parents home and move just if they want to and not obligatory.

Just an example I would say that my son when he was doing the obligatroy military service, he was 21 months in Special Forces and he was bringing to my wife (his mother) the dirty of mud and sand uniforms for laundry when he was with a day off!!!

Also it is a common thing that parents support financialy their sons and daughters in their studies and if there is ability until their first job.

I am 55 years old and my parents did the same for me and I didnt return them a penny and same I will, support my son, pay him the 100% of his studies and will ask for nothing in future. And if I didnt have the financial ability I would get a loan to support him. Also my parents still buy me a birthday present and I dont see any reason why not to do the same for my son and daughter.

Furthermore families here are very connected and I support my parents who are now 85 y/o. Its like a chain.

The only bad I see in this is that family members interfear into each other and in many times there are misunderstandings and conflicts between family members but thats life.

So Nocher I dont see any bad attitute from my son. Its a matter of the Greek way of life!

Dear Dfspilot
thank you very much for your information about OXFORD.

Anyway. Does anybody know anything now about Jeppesen manuals?

Best regards to all !

Dr. Ray

BobC

23rd May 2006, 18:06

Dr Ray

You ask which manuals to buy "in order not to just throw 600pound". As an ATPL grounschool instructor, I would suggest that whichever set you choose you will be doing exactly that - throwing away money. The BGS manuals are excellent and will be more than adequate to see your son through his exams.

If you really must buy him such a present, I suggest that you look beyond the training school manuals and toward the textbooks that many use as references. The "Ground Studies for Pilots" series by Blackwell Publishing would be a good start. The UK CAA publish a document called LASORS (available on-line at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_06_WEB.pdf) which inclides somewhere among its many pages a list of recommended reading.

That said, I would second earlier posts - buy him a CRP-5 and a good holiday!

JohnPetrucci

23rd May 2006, 18:11

CVT Pilot

23rd May 2006, 18:15

Dr. Ray,

I have done my groundschool with Atlantic Flight Training in Coventry, and was issued with the full set of Jeppesen books. There has been much talk about the fact that there are in some cases 4000 less pages in the Jeppesen manuals and that because of this, they are not as good.

From personal experience I would totally disagree, as they have covered every area in full detail and have led me to pass my exams no problem. I too looked at the Oxford books and while I agree that they are better for Q&A's and other resources, they can go into too much detail sometimes and end up confusing the whole subject.

However, from a different perspective, the Jeppesen books such as IFR & VFR Communications aren't really that informative and CAP413 issued by the CAA is really adequate enough to pass the exam.

I do also agree with others in the fact that if your son is enrolling on a full time or distance learning course he should be getting training materials and books included. It is also worth a note that the books alone aren't really all you need to pass the exams, good tuition and assessments or progress tests are equally as important.

It is a lot of money to spend so I can understand you want to do so wisely, and while I thoroughly reccommend the Jeppesen books I would advise you to wait for the second editions which I believe are due out soon.

I think the Jeppesen manuals prove that quality, not quantity, is the key for a success in the JAA exams, but everyone is different and some prefer to learn what they need to where as others like a broader understanding. Both however, follow the same LO's (learning objectives). Personal choice.

Kind Regards,

CVT Pilot.

dfspilot

23rd May 2006, 19:11

what a sad day it is when someone asks for advice and you get an immature comment like that displayed by " nosher ". hope i never meet him in the skies."""""""""

scroggs

23rd May 2006, 19:50

I think we've established that buying the manuals is probably not the best option. The CRP-5 is an excellent suggestion. As for the holiday, well it was a bit of a throwaway line, but if he could combine a holiday with visiting the school(s) you are looking at, would that not be a worthwhile present?

I think that what you are doing for your son is a wonderful thing; I wish that I could afford one day to do a similar thing for mine - though I suspect I won't! For those of you who resent this kind of parental help, get over it. It has always and will always exist for those who can afford it. I imagine that one of the reasons many of you are trying to get into aviation is so that you can achieve a comfortable living standard. If you're in it long enough, and you have some luck with employers, you also may one day be in a position to fund your children's career training - there are many wannabes here who have had parental help, and they are no more or less welcome than anyone else.

Scroggs

rayden1206

23rd May 2006, 19:53

So from what I understand Oxford ooks are more academically presented with every detail etc.Studying Oxford alone without tuition may be quite difficult. Its more like an encyclopedia where you can also go back and check every matter in every detail

From the other side from what I see Jeppesen is more like quality learning in order to have a success in exams and learn the most useful things of the thing called flight and airplane but yet not academically presented like Oxford

Finally I decided not to buy anything as it seems to too much money for no use.

Whats a CRP-5??? Dont bother to reply I made a search in Google and found out.

Finally i would like to state a certain thing. I am convinced will not buy anything as the intergated training that my son will start (INTERCOCKPIT) includes everything.

Concerning books I was just asking, just to have an idea of how can it be and there is so big difference between the each manual series. As I mentioned before I am a lawyer and the studies in every university are more or less the same amount. So I just asked in order to get an understanding of the whole concept. I couldnt understand in learning theory of flying how there is so big difference (4000 pages). Now my question is solved. (not 100% but ok)

Anyway thank you all for your replies

Best regards

Dr. Ray

dfspilot

23rd May 2006, 20:18

- Pooley's CRP-5 Flight Computer
Details

This interactive tutor created by Oxford Aviation Training includes all the features and functions of the Pooleys CRP-5 flight computer itself, and is ideal for both student and qualified pilots wishing to learn how to use the CRP-5 for the first time, or to refresh existing skills.
see oxford aviation traing website and go to media shop

CRP-5 Flight Computer

The CRP-5 has all the features of the CRP-1, but is designed specifically for UK commercial pilots, and students. Larger slide plotting disc and circular rule give the finest accuracy. Commercial features include compressibility scales and higher wind speeds - as necessary for CAA commercial exams. Comes complete with vinyl case and easy to understand instructions.
go to transair pilot supplies and is under flight computers.

rayden1206

23rd May 2006, 20:25

Dfspilot

Thanks a lot for the quick reply!

Best regards

Dr. Ray

rayden1206

23rd May 2006, 20:33

Furthermore

I discussed the whole matter and your opinions with my son and we came into a decision that its no need of buying so expensive books.

The only reason my son asked me of the books is in order to prepare the certain vocabulary of aviation.

Does now anybody have any idea of a book with the certain vocabulary,or a preparation book concerning this matter.

Best regards

Dr. Ray

itsbrokenagain

24th May 2006, 04:06

If I was in the position of your son, I would be interested in the Oxford Met CD and also the CRP 5 CD, if also if the english is a bit rusty also purchase the VFR and IFR communications CD's. Try one of the many pilots shops, ie pooleys.com or afeonline.com or transair.co.uk to name just a couple.

Also how about a interview books such as one of these:

Airline Pilot Interviews - Jasinski
This book concentrates on showing you how to prepare an impressive pilot employment package, and how to portray yourself in the most effective, professional manner during an interview.

Price: £26.50| £26.50 including VAT (Exempt)

Handbook of Pilot Selection - Hunter & Burke
This book describes the methods surrounding pilot selection, techniques largely applicable to any personnel.

Price: £65.00| £65.00 including VAT (Exempt)

Job Hunting for Pilots - Brown
This book has been written as a guide for Pilots trying to get a flying job.

Price: £14.95| £14.95 including VAT (Exempt)

or these will come in handy especially the multi engine book ...

Instrument Flight Procedures - Gjerlev
(Including RNAV and FMS operations) 57% of all accidents happen during descnet, approach, and landing, often as Controlled-Flight-into-Terrain (CFIT).

Price: £24.00| £24.00 including VAT (Exempt)

Multi-Engine Piston - Robson
This manual has been prepared for those pilots embarking on their first type endorsement on a Multi-Engined aircraft.

Price: £20.00| £20.00 including VAT (Exempt)

These books, are also good reference for any pilot:

Aerodynamics, Engines and Systems
This volume refreshes and expands the professional pilot’s knowledge of: • high-speed and heavy-jet aerodynamics; • gas turbine engines and their operation (both turbo-fans and turbo-props); • associated fuel control systems; • propellers; and • flight controls and other systems that make up the very complex but fascinating package that is the modern jet transport aeroplane.

Price: £25.00| £25.00 including VAT (Exempt)

Avionics and Flight Management Systems
This volume introduces the modern flight deck systems where the pilot’s primary role is one of systems management rather than manipulation of the flight controls.

Price: £25.00| £25.00 including VAT (Exempt)

Human Performance & Limitations
The most important information needed to perform the multi-functional tasks required by a modern jet is knowledge about the performance and limitations of its human crew.

Price: £25.00| £25.00 including VAT (Exempt)

Meteorology For Pilots Code: 8773E

Meteorology For Pilots - K. M. Wickson.
Giving a detailed weather prediction is a difficult task, and so is understanding the meteorological factors and their reactions. This is a comprehensive manual for all aeronautical students.
Transair Price £25.00

THIS BOOK ABOVE IS REALLY GOOD!

Some of the Microsoft flight simulator add ons are also a good thing to get:

A320 Pilot in Command Code: 3793D

Highly detailed airliner "A320 Pilot in Command". This is a complete airliner simulation using a 3D Active Panel, which gives you full room to move and a new dimension of realism in MS Flight Simulator!
Transair Price £24.99

Boeing 737 NG 600/700 Code: 3792D

Add on for Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002 & 2004. The B 737 NG is a highly realistic reproduction of Boeing`s New Generation Glass Cockpit Aircraft series.
Transair Price £24.99

I just touched the edge , there are many good books, and many good software packages that will help your son, and give him some good reference material for use his future career.

Capt Pit Bull

24th May 2006, 07:12

Some quality books to support the ground school notes perhaps.

Particularly as he is doing a BSc, some books would be very accessable and useful to him that your average trainee wouldn't have a hope with.

Handling the Big Jets.
Ed Pallets book on Automatic Flight Systems (I forget the exact title but I'm sure someone else will remember it. If not I'll look it up later, in the mean time I have to get out to work!)

PB

1pudding1

24th May 2006, 08:32

I second the vote for the Oxford Met CD. I used Bristol GS, and also used this CD which did help a lot.

boogie-nicey

24th May 2006, 08:53

Slighty off-track but I just wanted to say .....

What Dr. Rayden illustrated is more common than you realise around the world. Just because something doesn't happen or occur in North-West Europe doesn't mean you can somehow look down on it. Many people are enraged when Americans demonstrate their lack of knowledge of other cultures but it's a reminder that certain Europeans are subject to that too.

As aspirant pilots that kind of shortsightedness is unbecoming and clearly demonstrates how simple academic studies doesn't always turn a person into a pilot. Numerous cultures around the world are 'integrated' into their community and what's wrong with that? Anyway better drop this line now as it's too removed from the original thread.

Jimmy The Big Greek

21st Jul 2006, 22:30

I had ones a link to a very good free site which had JAR ATPL notes (not question banks) but I have lost the link.

Please post any good and free sites with atpl notes.

Its good to have prior an interview to brush up your ATPL knowledge.

paco

22nd Jul 2006, 02:05

Here's an australian one:

http://www.aviationshop.com.au/avfacts/editorial.htm

and another

www.wiljam.com (http://www.wiljam.com)

Phil

Jimmy The Big Greek

22nd Jul 2006, 11:15

thanks alot

GrahamK123

16th Aug 2006, 11:15

Hi
I'm just about to start full time groundschool for the ATPL exams (in a months time) and wondered if anyone has any advice as to any background reading/ preperation that will help when I start. Basically I have a month in which to prepare for the start so any suggestions would be helpful!

Thanks
Graham

CAT3C AUTOLAND

16th Aug 2006, 11:56

Graham,

I did a similar thing to yourself in terms of preparation for the ATPL course.

What I found useful was to go through the PPL syllabus in some detail, and grasp a thorough understanding of as much as you can. You will notice when you start the course, that a lot of stuff you will have seen before, and it really is an extension of your knowledge, so having a good grounding will give you a head start. Also a tip before you start General Nav. Get your whizz wheel smoking, you have to know this dam thing inside out for General Nav.

All the best with it, and even though it is hard work, keep on top of it and you will be fine. Above all, enjoy it.

Cheers.

potkettleblack

16th Aug 2006, 12:48

Good advice on the whizz wheel, a lot of people struggle with it during the ATPL and have poor techniques, usually as a hangover from being rushed through it during the PPL. Here are some thoughts:-

- use the wind down method NOT wind up
- calcuate wind/velocity given TAS, track etc
- work out cross wind and head/tail wind components
- make sure you can get your head around the time/distance/speed problems and the various permutations
- if you don't already have the CRP5 then get one, avoid cheaper imitations as generally the instructors won't know how to use them anyway and I have seen people struggling to get the same answers as the rest of the class using a non pooleys model
- know how to use your calculator properly - something like a Casio FX82 or similar should be your weapon of choice. In particular the hours, minutes, secs functions can save you loads of time and avoid costly errors as well as the sin/cos/tan functions
- refresh yourself on basic trigonometry - SOHCAHTOA, solving lengths of equal sided triangles etc
- can you manipulate algebraic formulae, nothing to hard but all the same there is fair amount of it across the subjects
- try to remember some of the main conversions such as ft/nm, kts/mph, m/nm etc
- hows your geography? You would be surprised how many people forget which countries are to the east/west of the greenwich meridian.

Thats all I can think of for now. Enjoy.

v1-rotate

25th Aug 2006, 11:08

I am due to start my ground school ATPL's at the end of September. With a few weeks on to go until then i will look to brush up on my math and physics. Are there any books worth reading as pre-study material?

Or any suggestions would be helpful.

Regards

V1

VFE

25th Aug 2006, 11:45

Just read up on some trigonometry, basic algebra (how to make 'x' the subject, etc), know a little about what your cos/sin/tan buttons of the calculator are for and little about vectors.

Some basic physics - Boyles Law, basic electrics, and moments.

I wouldn't worry too much - it's all GCSE level stuff and if I can do it anyone can!

VFE.

potkettleblack

25th Aug 2006, 13:16

Hey look another queston just like yours posted two weeks ago:) Welcome to pprune but get to know that search function as the majority of things have been asked over the years.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=239266

Stumpyotoole

25th Aug 2006, 14:24

so, with some trepidation, I start the ATPL groundschool at the beginning of next month. Although I have been distance learning for a while, I have come to the conclusion that Full time is going to be the best way for me to go. Can anyone give me any helpful hints about what to expect from the course - anything to look out for or pay particular attention to? I have heard many things from many people, but I would like to gather as much as I can before I start. Any ideas would be gratefully recieved! I have worked at a 'sleepy' airfield for the past few years, and I know that full time learning is going to be a bit of a shock to the system!

x

potkettleblack

25th Aug 2006, 15:31

As someone who has today just found out that I have finally passed all of the little feckers let me give you my words of wisdom (sic)....

- become a master of the CRP5

- hows your maths? (check out this thread http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=239266)

- at times it will be so dull and tedious that you will almost lose the will to live. Don't worry we have all been through it, just grin and bear it :)

- as you go through the subjects you will find there is much repetition. Just grin and bear it:)

- you may find depending on your background that some of the stuff is wrong, just grin and bear and take a deep breath and remember what the CAA want ticked in the exams and put out of your mind any learning that you may have done at considerable cost at an established highly esteemed university. Just grin and bear it :)

- nearer to the exams (say a month out) sign up to the Bristol online database and have the pleasure of practicing questions that remarkably look the same as those you will find in the ATPL exams. Wink wink.

- there is a really useful forum on the Bristol.gs website where there is a fair amount of useful information and questions that is available for free. They will even answer questions raised so it can be a great place to find out something that even your instructor isn't totally sure about.

If you can try and do a bit of flying so that you don't completely lose the plot although this is a nice extra. Good luck!

Stumpyotoole

25th Aug 2006, 16:04

Thank you for that! Congrats on passing them all.
I have taken on board what you say (funnily enough, many people have suggested the Bristol GS!!) and I intend to spend the next six months eagerly and earnestly practising for the exams.

oh the flying would be nice too, if only the beautiful english weather holds up!

x

BORN4THESKYS

25th Aug 2006, 16:07

Hi

I myself only passed my ATPL exams not so long back. First of all its going to be perfectly nornmal to feel slightly nervous or intimidated by the amount of information you are expected to remember, you're only human!

I never had the best education to be honest, no A levels or degree, and quite frankly poor GCSE's. I embarked on a ATPL course after a getting hooked after a trial flight, and have never looked back since. There will be plenty of people on your course for support, and plenty of people who have all been there to give guidance along the way, you will never be alone. Try not to be stressed by the amount of information you have to learn, easier said than done I know, but as time goes on everything makes sense believe me!

1. Do leave yourself time off to relax, and think of something else, or do something else non aviation related. Going to bed at night thinking of the whizz wheel, and charts and formulas etc is not good for you, so budget for night out every so often, it helped me anyway.

2. Involve yourself with the most positive members of your course, always helps.

3. As mentioned earlier by another user on the forum, the Bristol Groundschool question bank, they are fantastic!!! Do learn your subject material inside and out, but as mentioned earlier on the forum, a month or so before get on the question bank, I saw question after question after question that was the same as the BGS question bank, I cannot endorse them enough, YOU WILL PASS THE LOT, Id put money on it!!

4. Finally when the going gets tough, just take a step back and remember why you are doing what you are doing, family and friends are very important.

The very best of luck.

Callsign Kilo

25th Aug 2006, 16:29

Fantastic advice Born4theskys,

It can also help to put in a little flying during your studies, I joined a club, got a great block rate on a PA28 and make an effort to fly to somewhere interesting once a fortnight. It keeps you current and helps you realise why you are doing all the work.

I would also add that the OAT Met CDROM and their instruments book is worth a look. It certainly helped me out!

Plus any feedback that is doing the rounds is worth having, keep practicing questions until you are sick :yuk: as it helps not only to get you up to speed for the exams, but also spot what the JAA are looking for in a question. This, in some cases, is an artform in it's own!

Good luck

Stumpyotoole

25th Aug 2006, 16:33

Thank you for that. sometimes you do tend to find yourself caught up in the whole aviation thing. ( which is of course why we lay ourselves out on the line to get where we want to be!).

x

v1-rotate

26th Aug 2006, 10:37

Thanks for this. I will use the search function next time. Can i also ask where you did your ATPL's. I am having last minute worries that i have made the right decision. I am going to full time study at OAT but having seen that i can get it a thousand or so cheaper if i go to Bournmouth or Orlando Im thinking have i done the right thing???

I know OAT is one the top schools but is it worth paying the extra money??

V1

angelwings2006

26th Aug 2006, 10:58

OAT have a maths and physics refresher course, its a 2wk self study one......:ok:

BORN4THESKYS

26th Aug 2006, 12:49

Hi

Just thought Id stress something which callsign kilo said about keeping current in flying. This is very good and practical advice as far as Im concerned. Looking back to when I was doing my exams, I only did the odd flight here and there, and then eventually stopped eventually half way through and tryed to concentrate my efforts on just my theory. I wish I had not stopped now, as when I started again it does take a while just to pick up where you left off and get back up to scratch.

I still have a while to go myself. Got good rate on a C152, so hour building while doing shift work to bring in extra cash. As I say, just remind yourself why you are choosing this career. You'll be doing a job you've always dreamed of while the majority of the country dreads going to work!

Lets face it, in world where a large proportion of our life is spent at work, what is a couple of years of hard work to achive a lifetime of job satisfaction.

Go for it, and the very best of luck.

Cirrus_Clouds

26th Aug 2006, 17:26

Good positive attitude!! Yes, we are lucky that we KNOW what we want to do, where most people have no idea and just take life as it comes.Stick with it and you will eventually see rewards! I'm just about to start ATPL groundschool myself.

cloudz

26th Aug 2006, 18:56

Can I ask where you are doing your ATPL's?

Stumpyotoole

27th Aug 2006, 08:58

It will be London Met. In a weeks time!!

Dannyc

27th Aug 2006, 09:42

Hi Stumpyotoole,

Get on with it retard!! :}

Fantastic text last night, thanks for that, had me rolling in the isles for ages.

See ya tonight, have fun at work!! ;)

Capitano Dannyc :p

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

edymonster

27th Aug 2006, 10:34

Yeah im starting at London met in a weeks time to so ill see you there stumpyotoole. I just like to raise another question and that is how much of your time out of the class room, on average, will be taken up by studying?

Stumpyotoole

27th Aug 2006, 11:17

look forward to seeing you there, hoping for a good group of people!
x

Fon

28th Aug 2006, 11:35

Bristol, Bristol, Bristol!

Your teachers will tell you that they have all the questions and you don't need Bristol, they lie!

I'm no genius and just scored 100%, 96% and 84% in my first three exams. All thanks to Bristol!

Fon

potkettleblack

28th Aug 2006, 12:30

Nothing much has changed in the ATPL's since I first ordered my manuals quite a few years ago now (they gathered dust for a good year or so before I pulled finger!). It is all down to the quality of the feedback that the schools have and always has been. I remember a mate of mine struggling through with a small school, he was working his butt off and missing the odd exam with low 70's. He commented that he just hadn't seen so many of the questions and in the more technical exams like MET he didn't even know where to start to go about answering them as he just wasn't taught these areas. The CAA are constantly updating the CQB and unfortunately more and more questions are only "loosely" falling within the learning objectives. I remember one MET question that got queried about 4 months ago which the CAA had to refer to a obscure Swedish MET textbook as their defence for having the question in. Hence the need for something like the Bristol database to help get you over that last 10% or so in the exams.

dynamite dean

8th Sep 2006, 21:20

No doubt this has been covered, however I need to write my FAA ATP written test within a week can anybody give me any crash course advice as to what is the best book out there. Is this written fairly straight forward? I know its online down in Farnborough I think. help

DD

1013dot25hPa

9th Sep 2006, 16:32

I used ASA's ATPL software to prepare my self for the written exam. Worked great for me, much better then using a book IMHO.

unimuts

10th Sep 2006, 08:52

I used a cd called gleims. Must have worked as I passed the exam. :}

:ok:

chrisbl

10th Sep 2006, 09:03

try FAAtest.com

metar

10th Sep 2006, 09:53

I'm sitting my IR and CPL tests in Farnborough this Tuesday... used the faatest.com software and backed it up with the ASA books. Will let you know if the formula worked. I only had a week to study too!

METAR

HomerJay

18th Sep 2006, 14:27

Anyone else use the PPL confuser and really regret it?

I used it in Florida as i found it hard to study for all the exams within the three weeks. Regret doing it now however as I will be starting the ATPLs distance learning soon. I reckon its highly likely i will struggle since I didn't cover all the subjects properly. I relied on it heavily for Nav and Met.

Has this happened anyone else? Will it be possible to keep up?

Thanks,
HJ

BA123

18th Sep 2006, 15:00

The best thing to do is to read the text book for the subjects you are studying at the time and then after a good understanding use the confuser or any other question banks as just an aid to revision. Not a first choice to learning.

;)

HomerJay

18th Sep 2006, 15:21

ah ye well i wouldnt argue with that now. lesson learned!

BA123

18th Sep 2006, 15:34

what stage are you at in your flight training ! maybe you can help me ! are you just starting your atpl's ?

high-hopes

18th Sep 2006, 15:49

I agree. The confuser will get you to pass the exams. But will not give you the knowledge.
Having said that, some of the questions in the papers test your ability to read and decifer the question, more than actually testing your knowledge.

Passing the exam doesn't mean you know it all. The confuser will take you through, and there's nothing wrong with improving your knowledge even after you've passed the test.

scroggs

18th Sep 2006, 17:24

Are you serious? You intend to use the PPL Confuser to help you with your ATPL studies? Please tell me this is a joke...

You will be given the appropriate study material by your Ground School. Use it, together with any online question bank and brush-up courses they may offer. Do not use PPL study material for the ATPL. You are hoping to be a professional. Start acting like one.

Scroggs

HomerJay

19th Sep 2006, 09:41

Looks like I have been misunderstood.

Scroggs, I certainly have no intention of using the confuser for the ATPL exams. My point was, I relied heavily on it for the PPL exams and might struggle now when I begin studying.

Turned into a crap thread anyway but I was just hoping to hear from someone in my situation as I noticed a good few people just getting through with the confuser.

HJ.

fonz77

19th Sep 2006, 13:24

You shouldn't have too much problems, if you only used the confuser.
The notes I'm using for the ATPL's seem to start off at an "intro level" for the first few pages before going into more detail as you progress.
I'm sure all the notes from the various would be similar, get everybody at the same level before the :confused: stuff appears.
D'OHnt worry about it Homer Jay

BlueRobin

19th Sep 2006, 18:05

I'm finding that the ATPL goes over most of the old PPL ground theory.

Take it easy this time though, eh?

hughesyd

19th Sep 2006, 20:35

As some of the replys mention above, dont worry too much at this stage. as long as you are prepared to put the study in, most of the ATPL theory books provide detailed explanations from the view of a zero hour student. Some are far more detailed than others (the Oxford books i used were very detailed), i have heard the Bristol books tell you what you need to know. Dont rush, if you need longer on a certain subject, then do so, and learn as much as you can. There is a database to help you with the exams available, but you cant fly commercially on the back of a database.its many many hours of study and sacrafice.

There are also CBT disks available produced by Oxford if you need to brush up on Maths including trig, Nav and physics ect.Use all the resources at your disposal to help you.

Good Luck!

Keith.Williams.

20th Sep 2006, 07:19

Your situation is by no means uncommon. In fact the vast majority of students starting JAR ATPL(A) modular couses have learned virtually nothing from their PPL theoretical knowledge studies. This just makes it more difficult for them to get to grips with the ATPL material.

The good news is the fact that you appear to have recognised your error. Now providing you do your best to learn and understand as much as you can from your ATPL course, no permanent damage will have been done.

Unfortunately a small proportion of students carry the "just learn the answers" approach on to their ATPL studies. In most cases this does not prevent them from passing the exams, but they gain nothing more from the process.

You should try to learn and understand as much as you can from your ATPL course. Some of the material is over the top, but much of it will be useful in developing a wider understanding of your chosen career.

Past students sometimes ring to tell me about their interviews and type rating courses. They often comment on how much of the apparently irelevant material from their course proved to be very relevant. Curiously enough I have never had such a call from the small group who have concentrated on learning only the answers to the exam questions.

HomerJay

20th Sep 2006, 14:31

Thanks to all above, the feedback has been very helpful. This was one of the problems with me commencing the course especially distance learning but the advice has been reassuring. Lesson learned anyway from the PPL exams will know better when i begin the ATPL's.

Just a quick note for anyone thinking of using it, no point in telling yourself you will study the books when you get home because you wont.

Cheers,
HJ

EIDW RJ85

28th Oct 2006, 23:41

Hello all,

Sorry if this has been answered before but I tried the search and got little info!!

Im off to NAC in Florida in Jan to do their Full time ATPL theory course. I Currently have a PPL with 120 hrs.

Since I now have a couple of months before I head off, is there any form of Prep that i can start studying before Heading off? I have a few Theory books that i picked up along the line and I have been looking through them. Is there any other info i can start preparing for?

Many thanks

Farrell

29th Oct 2006, 00:37

My advice to you is to enjoy the time off that you have now.
There are risks involved with "pre-study"

If you are the only one who has done it in the group - you will first be looked upon as cool, but after about an hour of always having your hand up, you will quickly go from cool to tosser!

Work with the group and help each other out. You'll enjoy the bonding and the exam nerves.

Some of the goodytwoshoes will disagree with me I'm sure!

Gordon Bennet

29th Oct 2006, 01:00

JAR Professional Pilot Studies by Phil Croucher has the whole syllabus in one book.

Gord

EIDW RJ85

29th Oct 2006, 10:44

Yeah i will enjoy it but im working right up to the time i go!!! :ugh: At least ill have xmas at home!!
Never looked at it in that way? But alas there will be some people there better than others anyhow? Some will have gone and got college degrees and be used to absorbing large amounts of info? Others will not!! (ME!)
Gorden ... thanks for the book tip. I will look into it
My advice to you is to enjoy the time off that you have now.
There are risks involved with "pre-study"
If you are the only one who has done it in the group - you will first be looked upon as cool, but after about an hour of always having your hand up, you will quickly go from cool to tosser!
Work with the group and help each other out. You'll enjoy the bonding and the exam nerves.
Some of the goodytwoshoes will disagree with me I'm sure!

Rob's Dad

29th Oct 2006, 13:37

Farrell is kind of correct suggesting you enjoy your time off, but not entirely correct as everyone has their own way of learning. For myself, having been out of education for some years before I started ATPL studies and not being the world's best at either physics or maths then I would have benefitted from completing one of the pre-Maths and Physics packages available. I didn't and it took quite a while to get 'into the groove'. Having learnt that lesson, I am preparing to go the US for CPL/IR training by doing the FAA exams here and swotting up on RANT etc. Prior preparation prevents p!$$ poor performance in my book, and poor performance = cost. Does this make me a "goody two shoes"?. Frankly I don't care what other students think about my approach to learning - what matters to me is having more chance of passing the courses because I had the foresight to build in some 'spare capacity'.

Gordon Bennet

29th Oct 2006, 14:21

Do you want to pass the exams or worry about what other people think of you? The subject matter is about A level standard but there is a lot of it - the more you can get in, the better! A friend of mine went through Naples and said they sell it there, which is how I got it, but it's in Transair.

Personally I learn better outside the classroom, but each to his own.

Good luck!

Gord

AlphaMale

29th Oct 2006, 14:38

I am in the same boat. I purchased 'JAR Professional Pilot Studies' by Phill Croucher and have read quite a bit.

I am hoping to go to EFT in Jan/Feb 2008 so I figure if I can revise as much as possible now (over the next 14 months) it'll take some amount of pressure off me so I concentrate on my flying when I get to the states.

I studied A' level maths and about 6 months of A' level Physics and have a passion for engines etc, To say the truth I am quite enjoying the revision process.

I think making the best of your time is wise, I don't think I'll be putting my hand up all the time in class for the reasons above. But it's always nice understanding and enjoying what the groundschool is all about. :8

Best of luck guys.

Andrew
(Still saving the pennies)

EIDW RJ85

29th Oct 2006, 15:52

Just what i was thinking really. Im there to pass 14 exams .. not to make friends!! Thats the reason im travelling abroad so i have minimal distractions (work, mates etc). Just purchased the book there from pilotstore online so i should have it shortly.

Thanks for the advice guys .. keep it coming!! :ok:

Do you want to pass the exams or worry about what other people think of you? The subject matter is about A level standard but there is a lot of it - the more you can get in, the better! A friend of mine went through Naples and said they sell it there, which is how I got it, but it's in Transair.
Personally I learn better outside the classroom, but each to his own.
Good luck!
Gord

the_aviator

29th Oct 2006, 16:47

I found myself in the same situation as you are now before I started studying for my ATPL’s back in May of this year. I felt that I could use the time I had to get ahead but the flight school that I had chosen would not release the books in advance. I am so glad they didn't because I am nearly at the end of Ground School now and would probably have found myself totally burnt out! 6 months is plenty of time to learn the subjects and if your basic Math’s and Physics are up to GCSE level then I can't see what you need to do. Maybe instead you could get yourself some good aviation books and magazines to keep up to speed with current aviation events.

Best of luck with the course mate! :E

EIDW RJ85

29th Oct 2006, 16:52

Thanks Aviator,

I currently work in aviation in an operational capacity so Im pretty up to date on that side of things. Well im gonna get my hands on that book ... it cant do me any harm? :{ :{

badboy raggamuffin

29th Oct 2006, 17:07

Id use the time to prepare urself for the harder subjects, as some of them contain concepts that take time to get your head round. Getting your head round such concepts at an early stage will make your life a hell of a lot easier in Naples.
Have done nearlly all the ATPL subjects myself, and reckon it would be a good idea to pre study:
Principles of Flight, General navigation and Performance, as these subjects are more about understanding concepts rather than learning. Once you have understood them once, most of the hard work is done and the concepts will be ingrained in you brain for the future course.
It would be less useful I think to pre study things like Air Law and Operational Proceedures, as these subjects are based on pure learning of facts, which you will forget in five minutes and have to relearn fresh when you start the course.

Whilst the Aviator says that 6 mths is plenty of time to learn the subjects from fresh, I have felt very pushed for time during my ground school course. Anything that you can learn now and stamp onto your brain will make your life a lot easier later on.

Just my opinion, hope it helps.

Badboy.

potkettleblack

29th Oct 2006, 19:10

There has been a lot of stuff posted over the years on pre course study so do a search. I think you will probably find some info on the various websites from the schools that offer ground school as well that should point you in the right direction. Manipulation of algebraic formulae to a reasonable standard (nothing to hard), having a fair idea of how the CRP5 works and a bit of basic physics should put you in good stead. Failing that read over your Trevor Thoms. There is a surprising amount of PPL level stuff that crops up in the ATPL's that you generally skipped over without completely understanding.

CAT3C AUTOLAND

29th Oct 2006, 19:40

I am not sure what Farrell is on about, but there are no risks with pre-study.

I would suggest that you are up to speed with all your PPL material. The ATPL study is an extension of your knowledge to a higher level, which is not A-Level standard, more GSCE.

Enjoy it. All the best.

Farrell

29th Oct 2006, 21:55

Farrell is not on about anything really.
Was just my tuppence worth. :)

paco

30th Oct 2006, 01:22

EIDW - I'm the author of the above-mentioned book - it is good for dispatchers as well. I'm not sure if the version with the blue cover has got through to pilotwarehouse yet - PM me if you get an orange one. That's the one BALPA liked, but the blue one is more up to date.

Phil

PS - anything in italics has something to do with exam questions ;)

Serg7771

8th Nov 2006, 15:11

Hi! Did somebody know more about this software from the www.aviator24.com (http://www.aviator24.com/)?

Benjamin77

9th Nov 2006, 09:43

That sounds promising:With many questions (approx. 800) in learning ads, such as MASS & BALANCE, PERFORMANCE, METEOROLOGY, GENERAL NAVIGATION, OPERATIONAL PROCEDURES and PRINCIPLES OF FLIGHT, the solution methods are explained in detail and learned easily

A330PILO

15th Nov 2006, 13:40

hi all

i just orderd the cd , and spoke to the company, the cd look very promissing with over 7000 to 8000 q's if you order multi cd.

anyway i am looking for actual vedio lucture for atpl i ,they were made by previos ground school ppsc which closed down , does any body knows where we can find these cds or vedio for atpl subject.
thnks

A330PILO

15th Nov 2006, 14:55

hi all

i am looking to purchase video tapes or dvd for atpl ground school luctures.

i got info that ppsc school used to produce them and sell them in the market , any where i can purchase those tapes so i it can help me study for distance learning ground school.

thanks

Bandit650

17th Dec 2006, 17:09

Bought a set of ATPL exam questions off eBay to supplement those provided by OAT...and found a text file on the disk explaining a strategy of working out which specific topic areas came up in every exam and simply learning those in depth. Using this technique the guy achieved at least 93% in all exams - apparently.

Curious to hear any views on this. Sounds too good to be true of course, but perhaps there is some mileage in studying different areas to varying depths???

littco

17th Dec 2006, 17:25

Just learn the whole lot in depth then you take the chance out of it!:)

From personal experience, I used the Bristol QB and got 90% average.. no secret to it other than learn the material and revise the question database..

JetSetJ

17th Dec 2006, 19:14

PAPI-74

17th Dec 2006, 19:52

londonmet

17th Dec 2006, 19:59

1) BGS
2) BGS
3) Good nights sleep before each exam

L Met

Bandit650

17th Dec 2006, 20:48

Don't just do the feedback. When you get to the IR, you will look a real dummy when the examiner asks you about the airspace you are taking him into and you say "B isn't it."
You need to be flexable and learning answers won't give you that.

One thing that amazed me in the exam halls was those people who were out of a 2 hr exam in 15 mins. I couldn't read the paper in that time, never mind answer the questions and check it. They will make great pilots...not. It's the same as paying for a TR. Why does everyone have to have it the easy way and tomorrow. It just screws everyone else. Same as the exams....once the questions are leaked, they just get more abstract as the CAA get everyone back.
Just get on with the job and work.:ugh:

Well, I'm certainly taking no chances. I'm also running on the assumption the authorities expect you to know this stuff for good reason. I'm also finding the vast majority of it fascinating anyway, and its actually answering a lot of remaining questions from the PPL.

Curious about your comments about "people paying for a TR". Whats wrong with that? are self-bought TR's inferior to those provided by an employer?
I have no qualms about paying for a TR. I saved up hard whilst working in jobs I dont enjoy for too many years to have a hang-up about paying for a TR.

Bandit650

17th Dec 2006, 20:54

I agree with littco, use the Bristol feedback!!!

Rather than learn it, whivh i think will probably get you through the JAA's it's a lot better to understand how they got the answer, then if your mind goes blank or the wording of the question is changed - the JAA are notorious for this, then you're prepared!!

Best of luck,

JetSetJ:ok:
WHen you say "Use the Bristol Feedback"...is that the answered papers where they show you the explanations to the answers (apologies for prob. stupid question - but am not doing BGS course)

Thanks:ok:

Bandit650

17th Dec 2006, 22:05

1) BGS
2) BGS
3) Good nights sleep before each exam

Shall I get a particular brand of sleeping pills or just any make?:)

Whirlygig

17th Dec 2006, 22:34

I'm also running on the assumption the authorities expect you to know this stuff for good reason.

Not necessarily! I'm sure there are a lot of pilots out there who don't need to use half the stuff they had to learn for ATPL. Anyone doing the ATPL(H) exams for a start!! Neither does anyone need to know the history and organisation of ICAO or actual annex numbers!

I did professional accountancy exams and we had to learn section numbers of The Companies Act 1985. Never needed to know them again. Know what's IN the section but the number is irrelevant. If you do need to know, you look it up and I would envisage that any circumstance in which you do need to know in reality would be of such importance that you wouldn't want to risk it!

Cheers

Whirls

Superpilot

18th Dec 2006, 07:09

The JAA ATPL syllabus is long and futile in many aspects. Just some examples are: The level of detail on A/C generators, certain (gyroscopic) instruments and many many more. Stuff more suited to people who design and build the damn things than us mere mortal pilots who are going to be pressing simple on/off/reset switches. No one on Earth can be expected to learn all that and retain it for life. This is the way the syllabus was written way back.

I don't believe for one minute you can pass the exams with a 75% grade just by reading the Oxford, Bristol or Jeppessen Course Notes/Books. It's fair to say that feedback questions push the average candidate's grade up by between 20-40%. On the other hand don't think following the above strategy alone is going to help you. Granted you'll pass the exams but it wont bring that peace of mind in preparation for your first interview. To me personally, there's no real telling of the candidates level of knowledge if he/she has a 85% grade or a 95% grade. Some just have the capacity to remember extremely well short term :cool: - Big deal.

Megaton

18th Dec 2006, 08:05

Superpilot,
Not that many years ago there were no feedback questions. JAR was new and no-one had any idea what was going to be in the exams. Guess what? You actually had to know and understand the syllabus to pass the exams. Failure rates were, almost certainly, higher than now but you're wrong to assert that I don't believe for one minute you can pass the exams with a 75% grade just by reading the Oxford, Bristol or Jeppessen Course Notes/Books.

With a huge amount of help and guidance from Alex and the team at Bristol I passed them all first time so it is possible but not neccessarily easy.

High Wing Drifter

18th Dec 2006, 08:19

Shall I get a particular brand of sleeping pills or just any make?Aha! If you read HPL rather than just go with the feedback you'll know that sleeping pills (and beer :() don't help you achieve the right kind of sleep :8

Bandit650

18th Dec 2006, 08:24

Actually, I've found myself reading HPL ahead of time - just out of interest. I liked the section on STD's with some typically British advice...

"How STD's are contracted is self-evident. As is to how to avoid them".:=

JetSetJ

18th Dec 2006, 11:04

Hi there Bandit:ok:

Not to worry it's not a silly question, i also haven't studied at BGS. I have heard they offer a superb high calibre training as do Oxford, whom i study with.

When i say the Bristol feedback i mean the online database. It costs £50 for 3 months access. As has been said in earlier replies use the feedback to highlight and brush up on your weaker areas. Learn it at your peril!! I cannot emphasise how important it is to understand the method and how to work out the correct answer, of course it's nice to go into the exam and be presented with questions you've seen previously. Conversley this happened to me in my gen nav exam, virtually all the questions were word for word from the Bristol, but it really isn't worth taking the risk expecting the exam to be so!! Know your stuff and using the on line database will give you an idea of the areas the JAA tend to focus their questions.

In an earlier post you mentioned you purchased feedback from e-bay, i strongly suspect this is the Volare feedback!! I would advise you to use it very carefully as there are quite a few errors in their quoted answers!!!

My advice is stay safe and use Bristol's online database!!

Hope this helps and the very best with your training:ok:

JetSetJ:ok:

che turner

18th Dec 2006, 12:11

Hi

I was doing the same thing with my ppls , using the ppl confuser I went throw the book and wrote the question on the front and the answer on the back of cards. So before each exam I made shore that I got 100% right on each subject. And only then I went for the exam, and I passed with 85%.

This is a good way to learn if you are happy with 80%, but if you would like 90% or so you need to know the books inside and out. On human performance I did not even pick up the Trevor tom.:= I know that this was not the right way to learn but it does work.

I think that it is a good backup plan but you need to read the books, and learn the info.

Thanks

BigAl's

18th Dec 2006, 12:36

There is definately a place for the confuser as the Trevor Thom books do tend to skip over certain aspects, and you can 'hoover' these bits up from the practice questions and the explanations in the confuser.

I have been using both, and it works for me :}. I do feel it is important to have a good grasp of the subject, the practice questions then come alot easier and you feel you KNOW the subject rather than the just the questions. Same applies for ATPL I suppose... I hopefully will find out! :hmm:

Bandit650

18th Dec 2006, 12:54

JetSetJ

18th Dec 2006, 13:37

The best of luck buddy:ok:

If you need anymore help or advice feel free to pm me:8

Regards

JetSetJ:ok:

glenroberts

9th Jan 2007, 17:06

Has anyone got any experience with doing a course using CATS online study guides?

Thinking about doing my CPL theory over the web...

/Glen

looptheloop

9th Jan 2007, 21:43

Signed up yesterday for the online ATPL course with them. Everything is good so far. Its a lot cheaper than anywhere else i have found and the books would probably just gather dust, but can be purchased as and when needed if working online isnt your thing.
I was advised to sign up for the ATPL for the same price as the CPL and decide before the first exams which route to go.
Any more info feel free to PM me.

Phenom100

27th Jan 2007, 21:35

I'm due to start London Met in March and would appreciate help on what l need to purchase for the course, books etc??. :confused: ANYONE ELSE STARTING SAME TIME??

Any info much appreicated.

Many Thanks

Dan

Blueskyrich

27th Jan 2007, 22:10

Firstly, the very best of luck to you. I'm nearly through my 14 exams on a part-time, distance learning basis, and let me tell you - you're in for a hell of a time!!

Off the top of my head, you'll need...

Course manuals (being supplied by the school I presume and hope!)
Jeppesen student manual
Basic scientific calculator (check will your school as to the things it can't have)
CRP-5 (your basic whizz wheel you used for PPL isn't exact enough)
Chart plotting gear (ruler, dividers, protractor (sp) - that kind of thing)
CAP manuals (now available for download from the CAA website)
Red Bull -lots and lots and lots of it.
Notepaper - see Red Bull

I'm sure there is more, but its late and after a session today on Op. Procedures, my brain hurts. In fact, add paracetemol to the list....

Regards,
Blueskyrich

ATPLTrainee

28th Jan 2007, 10:44

Add lots of folder to that list too, you´ll need them to store all the notes you´ll be taking!

RoosterBooster

1st Feb 2007, 10:19

Hi All,

Are these worth buying to supplement the ATPL study?

Many thanks.

RB

PlaneHomerS

1st Feb 2007, 11:05

I bought the oxford CBT material for the ppl stuff and it helped me loads. A friend bought the oxford cbt stuff for the atpl's and he says its helped him loads...so yes i would say so :ok:

{Not normally a oxford fan but the CBT is awesome!}

Callsign Kilo

1st Feb 2007, 11:23

I would definetely try and purchase the OAT Met CDROM. It was the most useful tool I probably had during my ATPL studies- a must in my book!
I also used their textbook for Performance, which seemed to keep everything simple and to the point. No wordy, meaningless crap which is only too present in other providers notes! So at a guess I would imagine their Performance CDROM is probably worth the investment. They are pricey though! :(

Waryhawk

1st Feb 2007, 12:07

I bought the Oxford Met CD a few weeks ago and its made such a difference. I found Met really difficult just reading the textbook, but using the CD has made the subject a whole lot easier for me to understand.

Tucker737800

1st Feb 2007, 13:58

I used the MET CD in 2003. The manuals we had for MET were not good at all. I can honestly say that apart from listening in class to the teacher, it was all that I used and if the feedback/exam hasn't changed much over the last few years you will do well. Its excellent!:ok:

RoosterBooster

1st Feb 2007, 14:44

Thanks for your replies guys. I think I'll go for them. At 50 quid each its cheaper than a repeat I guess.

Cheers.

RB

PAPI-74

1st Feb 2007, 14:57

Get the CRP-5W with the wind arm. It saves at least 1 min per question, which on a bad day could be a pass or fail.

Enjoy the long slogg, and it will be.

BlueRobin

1st Feb 2007, 15:14

To a degree the Met CD will add to the ATPL theory, but should not wholly be used as a replacement. Met is one exam where you will need to learn concepts and be able to draw the picture on the paper to gain the correct answer. With the diagrams and animations on the CD, you should be able to build up a picture of what is going on and apply that to any question by drawing your own sketch. For example, being able to re-produce the CD's jetstream diagram will allow you to answer which way the core is flowing, where the warm/cold air boundaries are and be able to assign heights to each.

boogie-nicey

1st Feb 2007, 15:37

Once you get into the swing of the groundschool it'll be okay .... :) (optimism)

But seriously it is possible and rather than the subject matter or content it's the dedication and time that will be the biggest drags on your motivation. But there is only one way forward and that's to get through and the sooner you start the sooner you finish

WingDown

1st Feb 2007, 22:08

Having used both CBTs I would recommend them. In particular, the performance CD.

I personally found performance particularly tricky in some areas, the CD uses many diagrams and graphical illustrations that certainly bring the book to life and in my case, helped enormously. The price is steep, but I think you would find the cost a worthwhile investment

WD

config-2

25th Feb 2007, 15:40

Hi,
I was wondering which of the many books available covering this subject people would recommend? I have the Trevor Thom book which I am finding very useful, but are there any others?
Thank you for your help.

hobbit1983

25th Feb 2007, 18:34

How about the IMC Confuser?

neilia

26th Feb 2007, 22:09

Is Trevor Thom a good reference in preparation for an Instrument Rating or is there something more advanced that people use?

cruisercruiser

27th Feb 2007, 21:35

Leaving EVERYTHING else out, I would like your feed back on the pros/cons of the OATs books as compared with BGS's.

I have read a lot of feedback saying BGS notes are concise and will help deal with exams better while Oxford's are very comprehensive and detailed hence easier to read (like a story) but harder to study (get the facts in your mind).

I like to study things in details and fit things I learnt together to form a comprehensive view. Hence I don't like to understand things as "black boxes" nor take a fact as it is written. I have the impression that BGS notes are like "black boxes" : Letting you know whatever is needed for the exams without explaining things in details that won't come out for exams. I also thought (after reading a lot of feed back in the threads) that Oxford's notes are like an "aviation encyclopedia". In other words BGS notes are very exam orientated while Oxford's are knowledge based?

If anyone had seen books from both schools, Can I have your opinion on these?

neilia

28th Feb 2007, 05:54

Oxford's books are variable - fabulous in places, not so great in others. I've heard Bristol is the same. I guess this is inevitable when you have lots of different people writing on different subjects. Heaven knows why they don't hire a proper technical writer.
Anyways, what I would say on Oxford's books is that they're currently being re-written, and there are syllabus changes coming in, so unless you're absolutely desperate to get started it would be worth hanging on for a bit. I think the new books will be superb. Anyway, have a word and see how the timescales are looking for these changes.

Bandit650

1st Mar 2007, 09:57

I am doing the OAT course and find the books excellent. I also have the Bristol CDROM which is invaluable for its animations.
What I personally have found that is that OAT books are more comprehensive. If you study each chapter and get a good mark in the progress tests at the end of each topic..you're sorted on that subject. I have found questions from other sources easy after studying through the Oxford notes.

That being true for the most part, I have sometimes arrived at a page and found it just doesn't click. I then read about the subject on the web (e.g. wikipedia or the Bristol CDROM) and voila I get it.

If I dare, I would say that the Oxford notes are a bit like reading the Times compared to reading the Sun. One imparts more knowledge with fewer words than the other!

So, in my experience so far I would suggest having a back-up source of material for cross-reference. I expect this holds true for whichever course is chosen.

camprax

1st Mar 2007, 15:05

Any views on cranfield aviation atpl would be much appreciated.I am thinking of siging up for the distance atpl,of course the cost being my main factor in comparison to bristol and oxford.Anyone who went through happy to hear from you.
camprax

cruisercruiser

3rd Mar 2007, 10:16

"...the Oxford notes are a bit like reading the Times compared to reading the Sun. One imparts more knowledge with fewer words than the other!"

That's a really funny comparison! I wish the BGS notes contain some pictures the sun has! ;) Anyway I get the idea. I prefer reading the Times.

dream747

31st Mar 2007, 06:16

Hi guys,

I'm just wondering if anyone can recommend any good books or study materials for the PPL or CPL? And where can I get them? I've done a search but didn't manage to come up with anything concrete (sorry if I failed here). I would like to read up beforehand as I've got some free time with me and not being cannot start training as soon as I intend to.

Secondly, are there any differences to the syllabus of the different regulations like CASA, JAA, CAA or the FAA for example for the PPL/CPL? What are the main differences if there are? I've seen that the JAA and UK CAA always come together. Are there any differences between the 2 syllabi?

Thanks for enlightening. I'm rather confused about the different authorities of the different staes or countries. Appreciate any help!

fabiensf

31st Mar 2007, 11:05

Have a look at the sticky at the top of the main page:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649

For the PPL you can either use the Trevor Thom or Jeremy M. Pratt series.
For the ATPL , depends which school you intend to go to but seems like the Oxford or Bristol notes are the best.

dream747

2nd Apr 2007, 12:27

Apologies for bringing this thread up again. So far I've only manged to come across many useful finds after searching but they are all mainly JAA or FAA.

Are there good books for the CASA or NZ CAA PPL/CPL? Are there many differences in the syllabi of the OZ and NZ PPL compared with the JAA, FAA or UK CAA for that matter? Or would reading the JAA books be suffice to help in the others?

Thanks for any responses!

scroggs

12th Apr 2007, 10:20

Three posts have been deleted which attempted to either directly advertise stuff or to link to Ebay auctions of equipment. To repeat: advertisements are not permitted on the open forums, in any form. Please respect our rules.

Scroggs

Mohit_C

27th Oct 2007, 15:57

Hello guys,
I've only recently started my ATPL integrated course and need some help. We've been going on in class that temperature and pressure decrease as altitude increases but the density also decreases. Apparently the decrease in density doesn't have anything to do with the decrease in temperature which was what I would expect because: p=m/V Volume depends on pressure and temperature therefore the density depends on pressure and temperature.
So my question is why does density decrease with altitude?

Also another question.
Q. If you're in a hot atmosphere:
a) The pressure is less than ISA.
b) The pressure is more than ISA.
c) The density is less than ISA.
d) The density is more than ISA.
Please explain the answer.

Thanks a lot.

neilia

28th Oct 2007, 08:47

Basically, the decrease in pressure (giving reduced density) with altitude is a more dominant effect than the decrease in temperature (giving increased density), net result: reduced density.

Mohit_C

28th Oct 2007, 10:37

the decrease in temperature (giving increased density)

Can you explain why?

neilia

28th Oct 2007, 10:44

Why reducing temperature increases density? Well, that's the basic relationship that exists. Reducing temperature reduces energy levels in the molecules, they move less and occupy a smaller volume of space. The same number of molecules in a smaller volume of space = increased density.

Mohit_C

28th Oct 2007, 11:35

Ah right. What a stupid question :ugh:! I forgot to include this in the previous post but why is the decrease in pressure a more dominant effect than the decrease in temperature?

And could you answer the second question in my first post?

Thanks a lot.

Keith.Williams.

28th Oct 2007, 14:05

FIRST QUESTION
If we go back to the basics:

Boyle's law says that for a fixed mass of gas the Pressure x Volume is constant if temperature is constant.

This means that if we half the pressure we will double the volume. But doubling the volume means that the same mass is of air fills twice the volume. This will half the density. So each time we half the pressure we half the density

If we go from ISA mean sea level to 35000 ft, the pressure falls from 1013.25 mb to about 218 mb. This means that the pressure at 35000 ft is 218/1013.25 = 21.5% of its mean sea level value. So if temperature had remained constant, the density at 35000 ft would be about 21.5% of its sea level value. This represents a 78.5% reduction in density.

But as altitude increases, the temperature decreases. So we must also consider the effect of this temperature decrease.

Charles' Law says that Volume / Temperature is constant if pressure is constant. This means that if we half the temperature we will half the volume. This will double the density.

But Charles was talking about the absolute temperature not the temperature in degrees Celsius.

At ISA msl the temperature is about 15 degrees Celsius, which is 288 degrees Kelvin. This reduces by about 2 degrees for each 1000 ft increase in altitude. So at 35000 ft the absolute temperature is 288 -(35 x 2) = 218 degrees Kelvin. So the temperature at 35000 ft is 218/288 = 75.7% of its sea level value.

This means that if the pressure had remained constant the density of the air would have increased to 1/0.757 = 1.32 of its sea level value. That is a 32% increase in density.

So as we climb from ISA msl to 35000 ft the reducing pressure tends to reduce density by about 78.5% while the reducing temperature tends to increase density by about 32%.

From these figures it can be seen that the reducing pressure is the more powerful effect. So as altitude increases the air density decreases.

SECOND QUESTION
If we increase temperature at any given elevation, the air will expand. This will reduce its density.

The air will tend to expand in all directions, but downward expansion will be limited by the surface of the earth. So the majority of the expansion will be outwards and upwards. This means that as the temperature increases at any given elevation, the upward expansion of the air will increase the mass of air that is above that elevation. Static pressure at a given elevation is caused by the weight of the air above, being pulled down by gravity. So by increasing the mass of air that is above a given elevation, increased temperature will increase the static pressure at that elevation.

So increasing temperature at any given elevation will decrease the density and increase the pressure. It is this increased static pressure which causes altimeters to under read when the temperature is above ISA, and to over read when temperatures are below ISA.

Mohit_C

28th Oct 2007, 18:24

Keith.Williams. thanks a lot for the entire first part, it makes so much sense to me now. Just one little thing, can you rephrase the last paragraph.."It is this increased static pressure which causes altimeters to under read when the temperature is above ISA, and to over read when temperatures are below ISA"?

Because if you increase temperature, you say that density decreases but static pressure increases...and these are the two answers which it could be in the multiple choice question.

+++EDIT+++ Now this is confusing me even more...the actual total pressure is unchanged, so if static pressure decreases, dynamic pressure increases. Is the trick in the question being that the actual total pressure is unchanged?

Keith.Williams.

29th Oct 2007, 08:16

When I said that

"It is this increased static pressure which causes altimeters to under read when the temperature is above ISA, and to over read when temperatures are below ISA"

I meant exactly that.

Imagine that you are out in space and you can see the entire earth and its atmosphere. Now imagine that the air up to some selected elevation is all red and that above it is all blue. If we increase the temperature of the air it will expand, causing the whole atmosphere to become thicker. If we look again we will see that this expansion has caused the junction between the lower red air and the higher blue air to move upwards. This means that more of the air is now above our selected elevation. So the pressure at this elevation will be increased. But the only reason that this has happened is because the air expanded. This expansion has reduced the density of the air.

So at our selected elevation the increased temperature has decreased the density and increased the pressure.

When your studies move on to Altimetry you will find that they over-read in temperature colder than ISA and under-read in temperatures warmer than ISA. The reason for this is as explained above.

Your second question is deffective in that it has two correct options.

Your reference to total pressure being constant is also incorrect. In order to convert an ISA atmosphere into a warmer atmospher, we must add some heat energy. This extra energy will increase the total pressure.

Mohit_C

29th Oct 2007, 09:38

Oh ok, I get it now. Thanks a lot Keith.Williams. I'll come back if I have other questions.:)

Mohit_C

10th Nov 2007, 09:27

I have a question regarding speeds and what is read in the anemometer. Suppose an aeroplane is flying at 200 knots, the anemometer would read 200 knots. But now if we have a headwind of 20 knots, would the IAS (what is read in the anemometer) ready 180 knots or still 200 knots? Would the TAS be 180 knots which is the same as ground speed?

I know that the TAS would also take into account the instrument, position, density and compressibility errors but I want to get an example say at SL.

Thanks.

Keith.Williams.

10th Nov 2007, 10:13

To keep the discussion as simple as possible let's ignore the niceties of instrument error and pressure sensing error, so that the ASI shows Indicated Airspeed.

Let's also stick to ISA msl to eliminate density errors, so that the IAS = TAS.
Now imagine that we have an aeroplane that is fitted with an Airspeed Indicator (showing Indicated Airspeed), a TASmeter (showing TAS). And a GROUNDSPEEDmeter (showing groundspeed) We also have an anemometer on the gound showing the speed of the air flowing over the ground.

The aeroplane is standing still on the runway facing into a 20 knot headwind.

The Airspeed indicator and TASmeter will read 20 knots.
The GROUNDSPEEDmeter will read zero.
The anemometer on the ground will read 20 knots.

Note that because of the 20 knot headwind, our airspeed is 20 knots higher than our groundspeed.

Now we accelerate to 180 kts relative to the ground.

The GROUNDSPEEDmeter will read 180 knots because that is our speed relative to the ground.

The anemometer on the ground will still read 20 knots because the wind has not changed.

The Airspeed indicator and the TASmeter will read 200 knots because that is our speed relative to the air. (We have 180 knots groundpseed + 20 knots headwind = 200 knots airspeed).

The key to all of this is the fact that the Airspeed Indicator and the TAS meter are measuring speed relative to the air. But the GROUNDSPEEDmeter is measuring the speed of the aeroplane relative to the ground. And the ground-based anemometer are measuring speed of the air relative to the ground.

Mohit_C

10th Nov 2007, 15:26

Ok I undestand this quite well now. Now suppose we're on ground and we have a 20 knot tailwind and stationary. I'll try and repeat exactly what you did, just correct me where I'm wrong:
The TASmeter and Airspeed Indicator would show zero as there is no -20 knot value, the GROUNDSPEEDmeter would also read zero and the anemometer on the ground would read 20 knots.
If we accelerate to 180 knots relative to the ground, the TASmeter and Airspeed Indicator would read 160 knots, and the GROUNDSPEEDmeter would read 180 knots. The anemometer on the ground would remain unchanged as we suppose that the wind hasn't changed.

Keith.Williams.

10th Nov 2007, 17:07

Taking your comments in turn.

"Now suppose we're on ground and we have a 20 knot tailwind and stationary.

The TASmeter and Airspeed Indicator would show zero as there is no -20 knot value"

The speed of the air flowing over the aircraft is now 20 knots from tail to nose. If the Airspeed Indicator and TASmeter were able to register this they would show -20 knots. They may not be able to show negative values, but this is what the airframe is actually experiencing. So as far as the airfame is concerned it is moving through the air at -20 knots (ie 20 knots backwards).

"the GROUNDSPEEDmeter would also read zero"

Yes this is true because the aircraft is not moving over the ground.

"and the anemometer on the ground would read 20 knots".

This would be true if it could sense only the speed of the air. But if it could also sense the direction, and it could indiacte negative values it would read minus 20 because the wind has reversed direction compared to our initial situation.

"If we accelerate to 180 knots relative to the ground, the TASmeter and Airspeed Indicator would read 160 knots"

This is correct. They would have gone from -20 knots to +160 knots reflecting an acceleration of 180 knots.

"and the GROUNDSPEEDmeter would read 180 knots.

This is also correct.

"The anemometer on the ground would remain unchanged as we suppose that the wind hasn't changed".

Yes it would still be reading -20 knots if it had been able to do so.

The important point to note is that in terms of lift and drag the aircraft responds to its speed relative to the air.

If we assume that lift-off speed is 170 knots, then with

20 knot headwind lift-off will be at 170 knot airspeed and 150 kt groundspeed.
20 knot tailwind lift-off will be at 170 knots airspeed and 190 kt groundspeed.

The real acceleration required is relative to the ground, so comparing the headwind and tailwind cases shows that we need more acceleration in a tailwind. This increases the length of the take-off run required to reach lift-off speed.

Mohit_C

11th Nov 2007, 12:39

Thanks a lot Keith. Williams, it has helped me a lot.

Mohit_C

16th Nov 2007, 12:55

Another question. Throughtout all this time, I have been taught that the TAS has corrected the instrument, position, compressibility and density errors and I do understand them except for the density error. Why exactly does a lower density (higher density altitude) cause the TAS to be higher than the IAS/EAS?

I know that the instrument error is that of precision and defects from factory, position error is that atmospheric pressure intakes can have turbulance and compressibility error which occurs at usually above 250 knots and basically takes readings of the compressed air pressure rather than total pressure (which makes the readings increase).

Alex Whittingham

16th Nov 2007, 15:46

The IAS is an indication of the number and energy of molecules hitting the front of the pitot tube and therefore, by implication, the wing. If the air density is less, ie less molecules in a given volume, then the same IAS can only be achieved by flying faster, a higher True Air Speed.

Keith.Williams.

16th Nov 2007, 18:16

An Airspeed Indicator is simply a differential pressure gauge with its dial marked off in knots instead of PSI.

It gives an airspeed indication that is determined by the dynamic presssure that it is sensing.

To do this it captures Total Pressure (which is static pressure plus dynamc pressure) then subtracts static pressure from it. In this way it isolates the dynamic pressure inside its capsule.

Any change in dynamic pressure will expand or contract the capsule and it is this movement which determines the position the needle on the dial.

This means that every time it senses a given dynamic pressure it will give the same airspeed indication.

Dynamic pressure = 1/2 Rho Vsquared where Rho is air denisty and V is TAS.
If we ignore the niceties of instrument error and pressure sensing error then Airspeed Indicators are calibrated so that IAS = TAS at ISA mean sea level.

Now lets imagine that we climb at constant indicated airspeed. This means that we will be climbing at constant dynamic pressure.

But as we climb, the air density, Rho decreases, so we need more Vsquared to give the same dynamic pressure.

At 40000 ft for example, Rho is about 1/4 of its sea level value. So Vsquared must be 4 times its sea level value if dynamic pressure is to be constant.

This means that at 40000 ft the TASsquared is 4 times the IAS. Which means that TAS is twice the IAS.

If we try putting different values for Rho into the equation we can see what must happen to V to keep Dynamic Pressure constant.

For example

Dynamic Pressure = 1/2RhoVsquared

let's start with Rho = 1 and V = 20

1/2 x 1 x 20squared = 200.

So we have 200 units of dynamic pressure.

If density reduces to 1/2 then to get the same 200 units of dynamic pressure we need

1/2 x 1/2 x 28.28squared = 200.

If density decreases to 1/4 then to get the same dynamic pressure we need

1/2 x 1/4 x 40squared = 200

Mohit_C

17th Nov 2007, 12:29

Ok, so then basically what I make out from what you're saying is that as the dynamic pressure remains constant if we keep a same airspeed as we climb, the anemometer senses the change in density (reduction) and so it is the anemometer that calculates the increased v and displays it in knots on the Airspeed indicator right?

I have one more question which is different to this:

An aeroplane moves from Point A with coordinates 60ºN/030ºW. It then moves the following distances:
1. 3600 Nm South
2. 3600 Nm East
3. 3600 Nm North
4. 3600 Nm West

What is its final position?

I keep getting 60ºN/090ºW but books says 60ºN/060ºW.
Can you please help me with this?

Thanks a lot.

FMC OVERHEAT

17th Nov 2007, 13:09

Initial Position 60N 030W
3600 NM going south equals 60 deg (1 NM=60 deg on a meridian which is a great circle)
second position 000 030W
3600 NM going east equals 60 deg (1 NM= 60 deg on the equator which is a great circle)
third position 000 030E
3600 NM going north equals 60 deg (1 NM=60 deg on a meridian which is a great circle)
forth position 60N 030E
3600 NM going west equals this time 120 deg
(e=G cosL=3600 that means g=e/cosL=3600/cos60=7200'=120deg)
Final position is 60N 090W

I guess the answer on the book is not correct.

Mohit_C

17th Nov 2007, 13:26

Thanks, I had a strong feeling the book was wrong because up to the second last question it had the same working outs like you.

Keith.Williams.

17th Nov 2007, 17:09

"Ok, so then basically what I make out from what you're saying is that as the dynamic pressure remains constant if we keep a same airspeed as we climb, the anemometer senses the change in density (reduction) and so it is the anemometer that calculates the increased v and displays it in knots on the Airspeed indicator right?"

No.

The Airspeed Indicator has no means of measuring air density.

It simply measures the dynamic pressure and gives you an indicated airspeed that is determined by that pressure.

If the air density is equal to that at ISA msl, then the indicated airspeed will equal TAS (ignoring instrument errors and pressure sensing errors).

But if the density is less than ISA msl, then the indicated airspeed will be less than TAS.

If the density is higher than ISA msl then the indicated airspeed will be more than TAS.

But the Aispeed Indicator has no way of measuring density or TAS, and it does not actually indicate TAS.

Mohit_C

18th Nov 2007, 10:55

Ok...but then let's suppose a situation. We apply a certain amount of power to the throttle and we're climbing at 250 knots. To those 250 knots there is a corresponding dynamic pressure. As we increase in altitude, pressure decreases which means that the dynamic pressure would also decrease which means our IAS would tend to decrease as we increase in altitude.

I think this idea what I have is wrong so can you please tell me where I'm going wrong as this is getting me confused now.

Alex Whittingham

18th Nov 2007, 11:26

That bit could be correct. What is missing from your example is how you are flying, what is your target? It is normal to climb at a fixed IAS at lower levels, this would mean that, as air density decreases, your TAS would increase. If, however, you were somehow holding a fixed True Air Speed then, yes, the IAS would decrease as air density decreases. The problem is that it is quite hard to hold a fixed TAS, there is no TAS meter in the cockpit.

Keith.Williams.

18th Nov 2007, 13:10

"To those 250 knots there is a corresponding dynamic pressure. As we increase in altitude, pressure decreases which means that the dynamic pressure would also decrease which means our IAS would tend to decrease as we increase in altitude."

As Alex has said, that could be true.

Let's imagine that we have a very unusual aeroplane that is fitted with an EASmeter, a CASmeter, a TASmeter and a MACHmeter.

With these instruments we could choose to fly at a constant value of any of these speeds.

Lets imagine we climb at constant EAS in the ISA below the tropopause.

When doing this we would see

Constant reading on the EASmeter.
Increasing reading on the CASmeter.
Increasing reading on the TASmeter.
Increasing reading on the MACHmeter.

Now if we repeat the climb, but at constant CAS we would see.

Decreasing reading on the EASmeter.
Constant reading on the CASmeter.
Increasing reading on the TASmeter.
Increasing reading on the MACHmeter.

If we now repeat the climb, but at constant TAS we would see.

Decreasing reading on the EASmeter.
Decreasing reading on the CASmeter.
Constant reading on the TASmeter.
Increasing reading on the MACHmeter.

This is the situation which you appear to have been describing in your most recent post.

And if we repeat the climb, but at constant MACH we would see.

Decreasing reading on the EASmeter.
Decreasing reading on the CASmeter.
Decreasing reading on the TASmeter.
Constant reading on the MACHmeter.

The relationships between EAS, CAS and TAS are determined by air density, which is determined primarily by static pressure.

The relationship between TAS and MACH is determined by air temperature.

Mohit_C

18th Nov 2007, 16:40

I understand what you both have said, sorry to bother you a lot, but my question was related to the anemometer in an aeroplane that measures the IAS. As you said previously, Keith. Williams., the anemometer is a differential pressure gauge which measures the difference between the total pressure and static pressure to get the dinamic pressure in order to calculate the IAS. Now what I want to clarify is that if we, for instance, takeoff and we'd set 250 knots airspeed straight away and not touch the throttle, the anemometer would eventually detect lower and lower pressure as we increase in altitude and this lower pressure would mean that this anemometer would show a lower IAS at a higher altitude, right?

Keith.Williams.

18th Nov 2007, 17:30

If you mean a constant TAS of 250 kts then the IAS will decrease as you climb.

If we go back to the dynamic pressure equation we can see why.

Dynamic pressure = 1/2 Rho Vsquared

Rho is the air density and V is the TAS.

So in a constant 250 Kt TAS climb dynamic pressure = 1/2 Rho 250squared.

As altitude increases, the static pressure decreases. This causes the air to expand, so its density, Rho decreases.

If we hold TAS constant while we climb, then the 250squared stays constant while the Rho decreases. So the dynamic pressure must decrease.

The ASI simply measures dynamic pressure, so its indication will decrease.

So if we climb at a constant 250 kts TAS the indicated airspeed will decrease.

Mohit_C

18th Nov 2007, 19:03

Ok, that answers my question. Thanks Keith. Williams. and Alex Whittingham.

Alex Whittingham

18th Nov 2007, 19:31

There is another reason, though. If you set thrust and attitude for 250KT IAS at sea level and maintained attitude in the climb while not touching the thrust levers the IAS would fall not only because of the IAS/TAS relationship but mainly because thrust falls with increasing altitude. To hold a constant TAS you would actually have to lower the nose from the original attitude.

Mohit_C

19th Nov 2007, 13:07

Well for a start I do get help from my instructors at my school and when I have any doubts I do ask them but when I go back and read the actual books, which go into quite a depth, I have more questions and I find that here on Pprune I get quick answers rather than waiting for the next day or maybe week until the instructor turns up when I have a class for that subject (I don't have 1 instructor for all subjects).

pilotmike, is there a problem to me asking questions here on Pprune regarding ATPL Theory? All the people that have helped me here do it on their own will, and I appreciate that of them, not thinking of giving "free tuitions" like you said.

Mohit_C

19th Nov 2007, 20:20

Ok, I see your point towards my school's "reputation" but if I have a question, I don't think about the possibility of it being "stupid" or "relatively simple" and like I said I don't wait until the next day or week to ask a teacher and consider posting it on Pprune.
About the posts I make, I am not seeking a high post count (like it affects anything!) and I'm repeating myself in saying that people help me on their own will and I'm sure the "goodwill" won't get used up in 1 week as I'm not taking the piss of anything.

Alex Whittingham

20th Nov 2007, 19:17

One of my instructors is fond of saying 'the only stupid question is the one you don't ask'. Its not a good thing, particularly in class, to be intimidated into not asking questions.

There are other forums which might be more appropriate, though. PPRuNe has a 'questions' forum for the simple stuff and 'tech log' for the difficult and debatable. Most of the larger groundschools also have Q&A forums although the instructors there do sometimes get a bit shirty when asked to sort out misunderstandings primarily caused by bad tuition at other schools. Maybe the 'questions' forum would be a good place next time?

Mohit_C

20th Nov 2007, 20:01

Ah well, thanks for pointing out this "questions" forum, didn't know there was one (thought this was the place to put it as it was "Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)"). I'll put my questions there next time.

Alex Whittingham

20th Nov 2007, 20:09

Don't get me wrong, we're always pleased to help, Keith in particular. If you search for posts by Keith.Williams you'll find he's a fountain of knowledge.

Mohit_C

21st Nov 2007, 11:09

Yeah, well I appreciate that from both of you. I suppose you guys answer in the "questions" forum too right?

Mohit_C

22nd Dec 2007, 10:34

After having had just over two months of ATPL Theory I'm starting to wonder what is the best way for studying for the exams. How have most of you people got around it? I'm not sure if making notes is the best way because when I look at my book of Airplane Systems (1000 pages) I just don't see whether I would get the time to read all the notes I would have to make. The same goes for some other books like Meteorology. Alternatively how would memorizing the questions database be?

Can you people put in some feedback on how you guys got around the exams and what is the best/recommended way for studying for these exams?

Thanks.

Cpt. Relax

15th Feb 2008, 11:26

I'm selling my Bristol.gs Books, DVD, ... (reason: Change to integrated training)
Bristol approved the sale to another student and will provide the brushup course.

Price can be discussed.

Please pm if interested.

meg17

21st Oct 2008, 12:33

hi there
i have the 15 jepessen atpl manuals and i understand i should have received with them a test prep cd with 2700 revision style questions
does anyone have a copy of this they are willing to part with
kind regards:p

SilveR5

24th Oct 2008, 02:50

Hey guys..

First thing, I'm planning to go for my JAR-FCL ATPL soon but I'm afraid that it might be too difficult to study all the 14 subjects on my own without instructors. I hope I'm wrong about such thoughts...what do you think?

Second, many schools offer the PPL+CPL+IR+ME+ATPL Theory ALL IN 13 MONTHS!! AND THE "ATPL THEORY" PART IS TO BE COMPLETED IN JUST 5 MONTHS!!!!
is this really possible to happen while maintaining the minimum required level of skill and knowledge?

I really hope to get your feedback and to learn more about your various experiences in such matters..

thank you..

runway067

3rd Jan 2009, 15:40

This might not be nesessary. All schools try to benefit from you commercially and therefore force you to sit on these sessions and pay for them. Moreover with my flight exparience according to JAr I am allowed to sit for exams without prior training within the JAA approved training organisation. When it came to choose the school where I would sit for exams almost each of them refused to accept me unless I buy distance learning course or attend refresh courses. This is because exams fees go directly to Aviation Authority not to flight school. I finaly contacted the Irish Aviation Authority, which conduct examinations in Ireland itself, send them the documents....and there you go!!! without any refresh courses and extra payments I just go to Ireland and sit for exams.
Good luck