Eddie Stobart Air [Archive]

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G-CPTN

7th Sep 2006, 01:54

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5315366.stm

OPSQUEEN

7th Sep 2006, 07:59

Many thanks for posting this - very interesting.:)

cavortingcheetah

7th Sep 2006, 08:49

:hmm:

Wouldn't suit all pilots though.
Eddie's drivers used to have to look smart, wear ties and were not allowed to eat or drink whist driving.:p

cessna l plate

18th Sep 2006, 11:08

This could be interesting. Edie Stobart used to employ inspectors on the roads. I once heard of a driver being followed to a service station on the motorway by one of these inspectors, who then sacked the poor sod on the spot as he wasn't wearing a tie !!! Might be a bit of urban myth in this tale, but I know for a fact that it isn't that far from the truth!!

So what happens now, is there going to be a new spy satellite system sent up so they can see if the pilots are smart??

Whose reister will be aircraft be flown on? It is no secret that a fair amount of the Stobart road fleet is regsitered in Belgium to avoid road tax and fuel duty.

Personally, wouldn't let them run a village post round, let alone road transport, but then to remain fair here, I used to be involved in road haulage, and Stobart is the MOL of that industry, makes money and everyone hates him for doing it!!!

fernytickles

18th Sep 2006, 11:26

"Trucks, trains and maybe planes. Eddie Stobart spotters will be spoilt for choice."
:ok:

OPSQUEEN

18th Sep 2006, 14:22

daz211

18th Sep 2006, 14:27

The stobarts bought carlisle airport at the start of the year and have plan for fraight and pax flights from CAX :ok:

cessna l plate

18th Sep 2006, 15:43

Pax flights from Carslisle?? I would have thought that would have quite a limited catchment area. Blackpool, and to greater extent Newcastle aren't that far away.

I would imagine that freight might have some viability in it from there, as long as there is a link up with the road fleet. Problem being, back in the day when I was a novice artic driver, there was no minimum wage, but Stobart drivers were amongst the poorest paid in the industry. Since Eddie himself stepped down I don't know what T&C's are like now, but if they are still in a similar vain, then what are pilots going to get???

As for obeying rules, again under the reign of King Eddie, but I did hear a rumour about some of his drivers and managers falling foul of drivers hours regs in the early 90's.

To be fair, a lot of the negativity against Stobart in the haulage industry (including my comments here) come from the totalitarian rule of Eddie himself. For instance, he noticed one day that he was sending loaded artics into Scotland, and they were all coming back empty. So he then approached business in Scotland and offered to drag whatever they wanted as far as Carslisle for free. It cost him sod all extra as he still had the running costs of the vehicle, wages etc empty or full. On the back of this a lot of small hauliers in Scotland went to the wall, and industry up there was then paying half the haulage fee they were paying, and Stobart cleaned up. And a lot of reputable hauliers went bang. Good people that were trying to earn a butty, as the only way to get rich in haulage is to get out of it!

I cannot pass comment on the new management, but it has to be said that a leopard doesn't change it's spots, it might find a new cave to live in, but the spots stay the same. It would be interesting to hear from someone with a greater knowledge of the current Stobart operation that I have.

To sum up, the idea makes sense in a business way, but what are the mechanics of it, or is it just a way to gain cheap publicity???

daz211

18th Sep 2006, 15:58

The catchment area for carlisle is alot bigger then you think, dont forget the Lake District National Park,tourists from the USA and all over love it.
The west coast towns of whitehaven, workington and not forgetting the city of carlisle are crying out from airlinks, my family live in workington a big town, the closest airports to them is NCL,BLK or GLA all over 2.5 hours drive, I this day and age most people only have an hour or so drive to the airport and I would not miss the drive from essex to cumbria 5.5 hrs.

Bigt

18th Sep 2006, 16:13

[quote

Whose reister will be aircraft be flown on? It is no secret that a fair amount of the Stobart road fleet is regsitered in Belgium to avoid road tax and fuel duty.

70 of the 845 trucks operated by Stobarts are registered in Belgium to service some of the european contracts they operate. A few others operate from Kiev......and the rest run on UK plates paying UK RFL and UK fuel duty

cessna l plate

18th Sep 2006, 17:14

[quote

70 of the 845 trucks operated by Stobarts are registered in Belgium to service some of the european contracts they operate.

So pushing 10% of the fleet then. Even small numbers like this, I understand why, and don't have a great problem with trucks being registered abroad, as the UK haulage industry is taxed to death and regulated even further, whilst our european neighbours are free to send every bag of bolts held together by rust that they like!!!!!

As I said, I don't profess to be an expert on Stobart operations, I can just echo the sentiments that the UK haulage industry hold about that operator. As I said, Stobart are the Ryanair of the haulage world, they make money and everyone hates them for doing it!!

I have to admit that there is a masive tourist industry in the Lake District, in general made up of Americans and other nationals, as well as UK tourists. But what investment would be needed at Carlisle airport to enable trans atlantic ops? Probably more than the Stobarts want to pay. Whilst commuter flights from the regions, and even near Europe would help the local economy, and I am not about to put anywhere down at all, and indeed the Lake District is a fantastic place to visit, but in the harsh world of business I doubt that any investment to bring Carslisle upto an airline operation standard wold be re-couped by landing fees within a reasonable time frame. Although it would do wonders for the local tourist industry, the Stobarts, other than perhaps bringing goods to the local shops to sell, would not get a significant cut of the revenue it would generate to justify the expenditure needed.

Freight on the other hand, if managed in the right way from the start could be a viable option.

I am simply mindful of Sheffield City Airport. Built to take a hold of a niche market, perhaps in the wrong place really, but with the greatest intentions to turn it into a commuter hub for the local population. Never "took off" (pardon the pun) and those of us that fly there are simply waiting for Peel to close it.

Carslisle is a splendid GA field, with the best scenery this country has to offer en route. I would hate to see it spoiled, and then turned into a retail park 5 years down the line in a vain attempt to recoup the lost investment.

BRISTOLRE

19th Sep 2006, 08:40

It will be interesting to see which part(s) of the freight market they intend to service. I wonder if they are aware of the willingness of shippers to pay such premiums to have goods moved by air as apposed to by road.

cessna l plate

19th Sep 2006, 08:58

I have said that there is a good potential market for freight in Carslisle. That doesn't mean that it will be economical, especially in these "cost concious" days.

Let's be fair, how much is airfreight these days? To send a fully loaded artic from Manchester to Glasgow is in the £400 - 500 ball park depending on who you ask. How much would it cost to move 32 tonnes of goods on that route by air??

Because prices in the haulage industry have been driven into the ground over the years, in part perpetuated by Stobart themselves, the margins are that narrow, the customers have a whip hand, and will change haulier at the drop of a hat to save 50p per load. Within the UK there is no particular benefit other than rush goods. To look at it objectively, take a 1 tonne box of freight on the afore mentioned route.

It leaves your premesis in a truck and is driven to destination in about 4 or so hours, delivered to the door for about £450 or thereabouts.

Or take it to the local airport (haulage charge) have it packed for air transport (handlers cost) have it loaded on the plane (cost of a loader) fly the freight to Glasgow (air transport cost) unload it at destination, then have it delivered to the customer. All involve a cost, take time, I imagine that it would be cheaper, and certainly quicker to move those goods purely by road.

Now goods coming from near Europe are another matter, it is effective as it can take 2 days to get an artic back from France, and the best part of a week from Southern Spain. 3 or so hours by air, definate benefit.

This whole idea has the potential to create good things for the airport, the local community and could be a win-win all round, if done right.

The remaining question is, will it be done right?????

Wireless

19th Sep 2006, 17:40

Before plying the skies I used to drive artics to earn a bean. The driver getting sacked for "having no tie" story rings a bell. My Father also drove for a living working for an associated firm, Irlams.He once received a boot in the rear from Mr Irlam himself for not wearing a tie! Man you stink of diesel after 5days living in a truck, never mind the tie.

Anyway. Wonder if he'll name the aircraft as well

OPSQUEEN

20th Sep 2006, 14:36

What kind of aircraft then would be the most suitable for operating out of Carlisle on freight runs?

The AvgasDinosaur

22nd Sep 2006, 00:07

As an ex traffic cop ( tin hat on await hostile incoming) There was never much point in pulling a Stobart Truck always mint and paper work to die for. Not like some I could name. If Air Eddie gets going it'll be a straight and tight run ship (IMHO) Thats one lot of spots this leopard wont change. Built the entire business on clean straight motors. They pull about 10%-15% premium at auction apparantly.
Be lucky
David

Say again s l o w l y

22nd Sep 2006, 09:13

They'll need to resurface the runway first!

They should be able to get 737 in there without too much trouble. Though what their real plans are I have no idea.

cessna l plate

22nd Sep 2006, 09:25

As an ex traffic cop ( tin hat on await hostile incoming) There was never much point in pulling a Stobart Truck always mint and paper work to die for.

Fair comment. However, the same could also be said of R F Feilding's operation, and if you are up to date, you will know what has happened to them!!!!!!!

Just because they look good doesn't mean they are!!

daz211

22nd Sep 2006, 09:32

see link http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=389844

Wireless

26th Sep 2006, 12:23

A few years back R F Fielding's fell foul of the Ministry boys, and were being investigated if that's what you're referring to. Used to see their vehicles a lot at drops. Don't know what happened in the end as I moved out of the industry. Just glad to be away from those tacho regs. They were a nightmare for long distance drivers. Makes FTL schemes seem like child's play

Airprox

27th Sep 2006, 22:40

The plan for Carlisle is to build Stobbards new state of the art head quarters on the south side of the airport. The current runway will be scrapped and a brand new one built parallel to it just further north (subject to national heritage as the roman wall goes through the airport). The existing control tower will go etc.

The Freight flights will initially be small or medium turbo props to service the Scottish islands for a Stobbart customer. B737 are a possibility for the future.

SWBKCB

5th Oct 2006, 22:39

Is it just me or does anybody else think they've just got a nice bit of real estate to build there new HQ on, and any plans for aviation expansion is just so much window dressing??

Skytrucker

6th Oct 2006, 09:34

bacardi walla

6th Oct 2006, 13:39

Could have bought Emeralds AOC :uhoh:

Say again s l o w l y

6th Oct 2006, 13:47

You can't "buy" an AOC, you can buy the company that holds an AOC and let's face it, Stobart's aren't daft enough to buy that mess from KPMG.

daz211

6th Oct 2006, 18:30

This was seen at carlisle today, new colours, so when is the a/c coming.
http://i3.ebayimg.com/05/i/08/6f/5f/52_1.JPG

The AvgasDinosaur

6th Oct 2006, 19:06

Can't imagine with his history of registering his fleets outside of the UK he would even contemplate an AOC under the Campaign Against Aviation. More likely to look at another European state with less restrictive FTL's and a more favourable tax regime, preferably with EU funds flooding in rather than out. You would also be better buying an AOC "to go" rather than trying to set one up from scratch. Even better would be to operate under the umbrella of another operators AOC.
70 of the 845 trucks operated by Stobarts are registered in Belgium to service some of the european contracts they operate. A few others operate from Kiev......and the rest run on UK plates paying UK RFL and UK fuel duty
So I dont think we can really worry about a box of Estonian registered Antonovs arriving in the fells. Maintenance wise they run a very straight operation by all acounts and I cant see them changing that policy.:D
If the trucks are green and the trains blue what do you reckon on red for the aircraft ?
Be lucky
DAVID

Bus429

7th Oct 2006, 17:34

Air freight operation most likely to be franchised, don't you think? "Stobart Air operated by DHL", for example.;)

SWBKCB

7th Oct 2006, 17:43

I would have thought that if you were trying to make money out of air freight based at Carlisle, you wouldn't be wanting to split the profit with anybody else....

Skytrucker

7th Oct 2006, 20:37

Bus429 is on the right track. It takes a lot of manpower and time to put into place the necessary before any aviation authority worth its title would let you have an AOC. Engineering facilities, training policy, supervisory structure with people in post who know what's what just for starters. I will still stick to my suggetion that Stobart Air willl not look to the CAA out of choice, far too expensive but will pick an EU nation whose AA have a reputation for taking the money and turning a blind eye, contract someone to do the admin, provide the umbrella for the AOC and start eliminating the competition.

Wycombe

8th Oct 2006, 08:35

I think the trains are blue because the freight they will move is for Tesco (saw this in a Rail Industry mag). The freight wagons have something like "less CO2" painted on the side of them.

Ballymoss

8th Oct 2006, 13:16

Is it just me or does anybody else think they've just got a nice bit of real estate to build there new HQ on, and any plans for aviation expansion is just so much window dressing??
Most sensible (and likely option IMO) post on this thread:D
Stobart Rail is operated by Direct Rail Services (part of BNFL) of Carlisle, hence the retention of their generally blue livery. Suspect any Air Ops would be conducted on a similar basis.
Rgds
The Moss:ok:

MercenaryAli

13th Oct 2006, 02:09

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5315366.stm

Avid interested parties check this out!

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42051000/jpg/_42051776_niceeddietrucks_203.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42050000/jpg/_42050336_carlisleairport_203.jpg

Meeb

25th Jun 2007, 11:12

Looks like they are serious about developing Carlisle Airport, mention of new fire appliances here...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/6365501.stm

and from Stobart Air...

http://www.carlisleairport.co.uk/documents/Brochure.pdf

DaveO'Leary

25th Jun 2007, 19:53

Yorkie bars won't be the same. So is he going to pay for his HGV drivers upgrade to ATPL...Cool:ok:

Whossat Forrus

6th Jul 2007, 19:22

Had a night off last night, had a beer, first one in ******* ages. Met a blerk int' poob, driver fer Arrr Eddie. Now he reckons that from what ee's heard, just talk like, that the bosses involved wi' organising pleines have been going t' Ireland lots in past munths (hope t'yorkshire accsunt not bovverin thee) and t'drivers think thart t'airline is beein' sett oop wi' boggies. (Quote, unquote)

Jimmy Macintosh

6th Jul 2007, 21:58

I got everything apart from boggies.

Parapunter

9th Jul 2007, 10:00

Fieldings was sold to Coolchain after the last bout of unpleasantness. AFAIK Ruben Fielding is out of it altogether. As for Stobart, WA Developments who own it now, have turned it roud - for a few years back in the early noughties, Stobart made heavy losses, principally by getting heavily involved with the wrong equipment for their fleet. The Belgium thing is true, quite a few UK operators have done similar, in an effort to compete with foreign outfits who can fill up their double tanks & tramp for a week round the UK, using diesel at a heavy discount to the UK boys. Many of us would like to see the reinstatement of the cabotage regs.

Oh, and it is possible to make money in UK haulage - I'm a very good example of how - my margins are 25-30% per load & I in't all that bright neither!

The AvgasDinosaur

23rd Nov 2007, 14:15

Stobart-Air first aircraft :rolleyes: is a Falcon 900. Not much room for freight in that.
Registered in the Isle of Man as M-SAIR to W.A. Developments of Carlisle.
http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebAircraft/M-SAIRs.jpg
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David

dango

27th Nov 2007, 21:50

Working with a Company like DHL would allow their GSA at EMA(HAE) to sell to people like the Royal Mail and UK Courier Companies and timing the conx times right could see freight consolidated at 1 point - EMA or LTN? -and sent up to Carlisle.There's already a prop doing ABZ-EDI - you could add Carlisle as a stop and do a return journey? Medical Companies are asking to fly chemo and radio freight made in Bucks to EDI for morning use.DHL Express also have a station in Carlisle city already.

bazilbutler

4th Feb 2012, 22:55

So.. Jet2 and Monarch out.. Easy and Flybe no reply (no change there then) and a BMIbaby shaped AOC waiting to be made into an air freight division.

What do you lot think?

bazilbutler

4th Feb 2012, 22:58

bmibaby airline, Castle Donington, airport, leicestershire | This is Leicestershire (http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/story-15120169-detail/story.html)

SWBKCB

5th Feb 2012, 05:51

If they're just after an AOC, what can they do with Baby that they couldn't do with Arann where they already have a significant shareholding?

bazilbutler

5th Feb 2012, 09:12

true, but not sure how significant the investment really is..

Stobart and Aer Arann reach operating agreement - Stobart Regulatory News - London South East (http://www.lse.co.uk/share-regulatory-news.asp?shareprice=STOB&ArticleCode=brk7lt4c&ArticleHeadline=Stobart_and_Aer_Arann_reach_operating_agreem ent)

I agree it would be a bold move. Anyone from Baby out there?

Expressflight

5th Feb 2012, 10:22

Are there really people out there who think Stobart would be seriously interested?

I cannot think of one good reason why they would even for one moment consider it.

SWBKCB

5th Feb 2012, 10:39

Sarcasm mode ON:

Well, they've got to find somebody to fly all that fresh produce for Tesco's from CAX to the Scottish highlands and islands, so why not?

Sarcasm mode OFF:

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

P6 Driver

7th Feb 2012, 12:07

This was released in the 1/144 scale Corgi die-cast range some years ago...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7153/6835380169_5c1a93834d.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7160/6835379787_c925efc4a1.jpg

Did they know something we didn't back then?
Corgi also released a Sea King helicopter in the Stobart colours!
:ok:

rowly6339

26th Mar 2012, 16:02

I really dont think Stobarts will be buying an airline as they have only just started running a proper airport (sen not carlisle) and they dont have the money for such a venture.

flying lid

26th Mar 2012, 18:54

Date on op's link is 6th Sept 2006 - a bit of old "future news" that in part came true.

Container trains bearing the name "Stobart Rail" have been passing near to my house daily for several years - blue livery though, not green. Daventry to Glasgow & Inverness I believe, and many also bear Tesco branding alongside Stobart !!.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Stobart_Rail_freight_train_on_the_West_Coast_Main_Line_12_Ma y_2009.jpg

Lid

maliyahsdad2

19th Mar 2014, 15:55

Aer Arann to change corporate name | BreakingNews.ie (http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/aer-arann-to-change-corporate-name-625482.html)

Not really a freight outfit but Stobart Air now a reality.