I worked out my hourly pay rate can you guess what it is?

[Dave]

I fly 120-180 seat twin jets for a major UK airline, just worked out my hourly rate (BEFORE tax) for the time I spent at work last year. I've been doing this for somewhere between 4 and 10 years (so as not to narrow myself down too much!)

Anyone fancy a guess at what it is?

Remember this is BEFORE tax and EXCLUDING commuting time too.

It worked out at £16.69/hour. Good huh?????

Thinking of getting a job in McD's, £5.05/hour starting, low tax rate, near to my home (walk to work), FLEXIBLE hours, good promotion prospects based on merit rather than seniority.

Makes me angry when people think all airline pilots on over £100k!

[Jerricho]

How many hours (average-ish) do you do a week?

[Alycidon]

Well, not only is this over 3 times the UK national minumum wage, but you get a vocation which will give you a professional qualification for as long as you can operate in IMC under IFR and hold a medical.

What would you like? Wafers with it?

[Phileas Fogg]

What the hell is someone going to spend £16.69 per hour on and one might guess that there are per-diems, including an OTT X factor, on top to cover any spendings whilst revenuing that £16.69per hour.

Ever thought of applying to an Irish LCC? They operate twin jets and approve of people that count the pennies :)

[Nov71]

If dissatisfied I hear there could soon be a vacancy for PM
similar stress levels, soon to have own plane (someone else driving), no security checks at gate.

[Rapid]

On £8.40 p/h driving up and down the motorway network of our green and pleasent land.....takin care of my mrs, my 4 kids, and my lovely new gaff.........maybe puttin in 80 hrs a week helps...i wouldnt change it for the world....count yourself lucky you have a job that the majority of people can only dream about...dont frown too much on your hourly earnings...just be happy .....Adios!!!!!!!!!!

[fireflybob]

But surely pilots are paid for their skill and expertise rather than the hours they work?

Reminds me of the allegedly true story of the US company which pioneered the air freight principal of flying the freight into a central hub, sorting same and then flying the freight out again to different destinations (sorry cannot remember the name of the company). There were severe penalties if things ran late in the night and there was a huge "hangar" with lots of conveyor belts etc to sort the freight. One night the whole system stopped and they were running round like headless chickens trying to work out what had gone wrong. They called the engineer in who reckoned he would have it fixed within a few minutes. He went to a junction box, opened same, took out his screwdriver and turned one screw, upon which all the conveyor belts etc started to work again. The company owner, somewhat relieved that all was well again asked the engineer how much he owed him. "$10,000 dollars" he replied. "$10,000 dollars - isnt that a lot ?" the owner asked. "Well", said the engineer "it would have cost you a lot more if I had not fixed the problem". The owner agreed and went off to get the money from the safe but before doing so he said "When I get back with the money I want an itemised receipt!". As he handed over the money the engineer gave him receipt with read: -

Turning screw...............................$10
Knowing which screw to turn..... .$9,990

I would suggest that being a pilot is very similar in the sense that most of the time it is, as they say, money for old rope BUT what you are really paid for is knowing what to do when things do not go accordingly to plan!

[Dockjock]

errr....FedEx?
unless you were being ironic.

what do I win?

[TheSailor]

Hello,

Was your choice man.....:}
You see that only after 10 years..or so...
Want more bucks?
Go work offshore (12Hours/day)..nothing to walk ...you jump from your bed to the work place...:) and they paid well qualified ppls..
Seem's you miss a carrer to MCD....:rolleyes:

Regards. http://photobucket.com/albums/v509/Bebermaur/th_bye.gif

[SecurID]

Sorry Dave, it does not add up. 16.69 an hour? So assuming you are doing 900 hours a year that gives you an earning potential of under 16K? Before Tax!!?? A quick look at http://www.britishpilots.co.uk/Airlinerecruitment.html will show you that even the lowest salaried 120-180 seat twin jet FOs are on about 40K.

[kotakota]

Yes , come on Dave , your calculator must be u/s or else you signed the worst contract ever known . I earned £14500 as the lowest of the low in 85 for Dan Air , which was not that bad -kept a family of 5 alive.
Please check your figures and let us know the outcome...........

[FlapsOne]

I assume he has worked out duty hours rather than flying duty hours.

Could be more than double the FDP total.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Well Dave, you don't have to do it do you?

Do those figures include "allowances" I wonder? I had a neigbour once who flew for a major airline. He told me that they lived entirely off his allowances and stashed his salary every month.

[puddle-jumper2]

Hours worked is Duty hours, you get paid for the hours at work not the hours in the air. i.e. pre flight prep. - post flight duties etc.

Most pilots where I work (large U.K. airline) are doing around 1800 duty hours a year, some close to 2000.

Some F/O's on 'a jet' are getting £24000 per year......£13.33 per hour.:sad:

The cost of their licence now is around £70000 + and a lot of hard work.

Yes it's their choice and most go on to bigger and better things but it's not all a bed of roses at first.:=

[Elroy Jettson]

Now include unpaid study time for revalidation of licence renewal and IR and ep's, unpaid sim exs, take out your flying loan repayments, and really excite yourself! :}

[Speedpig]

Hard luck.
I earn more than that, but then I do get shouted at every day.

[Dave]

Yeh you're right I did work it out with DUTY hours not flying hours, but thats fair really isn't it? I mean when I'm on duty I am working, doing flight preparations etc.

And yes my salary is over 40,000. And I have actually included allowances, so thats using the total figure. It still works out to be £16.69.

Yes I know no one asked me to do it and yes I know there are other much lower paid jobs around. But like some people have said, I have responsibility for up to 180 people up to 4 times a day, plus countless thousands of people on the ground. I trained for 2 years costing £70,000. I work unsociable hours and MOST weekends. (I got 2 weekends off in my first two years.... FACT!).

I'm just saying it don't sound a lot. I have mates on over £50/hour doing contracting (office work).

[Dani]

well, sleeping in a 5 star hotel is also work...

If you count it this way, a responsible manager, politician, teacher, salesman, project manager, PR expert, journalist, artist works 24 hrs a day, and therefore comes to much lower wages - and has much less off time.

Believe it or not: Pilot is one of the easiest of the responsible jobs. You set your parking brake and go home. Everyone else can't do that.

I myself had some other jobs before and know what I'm talking about!

Dani

[M.Mouse]

I am still trying to work out the point of your post.

The fact you get paid as you do is because you are willing to be paid that amount. If you weren't, and nobody else was either, the employer would have to pay more.

If you find it so burdensome then go and do something else which pays more.

[kingoftheslipstream]

Hey Dave
I agree with you. It isn't the career we thought we were going to have when we were younger and looking at it from the wannabee perspective...
I wonder if you have thought of keeping track of how many passengers you fly in, say, a year... how much would you make per passenger? When I worked for a carrier in North America, I did this for a year and as an FO on an A319/320/321 I was making about $3.15 USD per pax per hour of stick time... it's not much when you consider our qualifications, dedication, lifestyle hardships, scrutiny, experience, safe practice, and specialized field of endeavour.
Compare what we do to what a specialist surgeon would do in a year... if they &$%# up, they will only kill one person, and lots of them don't see as many in a year as we might see in one day. As a group pilots are undervalued (globally) and culturally. It is a strange phenomenon. There is a lot of envy out there, especially from management boffins who were failures at their attempts to become pilots. What we do looks easy to the untrained eye... As a pro on the flight deck I resent the public's view of our profession as a bunch of overpaid primadonnas. I had a long and dangerous apprenticeship in the military (two different Commonwealth countries) to get where I am. I know there are thousands out there who had it harder than I did, and when some slacker or techie want to fly from LGW to ROP for 49 Sterling because they think it's their "right" it pisses me off.
Don't Let The Bastards Get You Down
Happy Contrails
k-o-t-s

[Dave]

Thanks k-o-t-s. Thats the point I was trying to make.

And no I did NOT include time asleep in the hotel!

[jonseagull]

Salry in excess of £40K and presumably in the RHS.
How old are you Dave ?
How are your friends of the same age doing with regard to yourself and what are their prospects for future salary increases compared to yours?
What will your salary be in a few years time after you have completed your apprenticeship in the RHS?

I am not saying that we, as a professional group, should not strive for better conditions but a post like this is , perhaps, not the way to go about it.

All the best climbing the ladder. The view gets better the higher you get ! (until something knocks you off!!!)

[Hirsutesme]

But it's not really about money is it. my hourly rate is £30, apparently nearly double yours. But that is calculated on a notional 35 hour week. When do I work 35 hours...never. It's usually 45, sometimes 50, has been over 60, still take home exactly the same regardless.
Why do I do it, I like the job, the work is rewarding on various levels and I take pride in it.

[buzzc152]

Just to make you feel better, I fly twin pistons for a about half your salary. I calculate my hourly pay at approx £50-55/hour. Not bad eh ??

[sarah737]

Hey Dave
I worked for a carrier in North America, I did this for a year and as an FO on an A319/320/321 I was making about $3.15 USD per pax per hour of stick time... it's not much k-o-t-s


Kots, a 150 ish pax would make almost 500$ an hour
AND YOU CALL THAT NOT MUCH??????

[cwatters]

Hours worked is Duty hours, you get paid for the hours at work not the hours in the air. i.e. pre flight prep. - post flight duties etc.
Most pilots where I work (large U.K. airline) are doing around 1800 duty hours...

Thats an average of less than 38 hours a week. Many folk do that and commute and commute two hours a day.

[Pilot Pete]

Thats an average of less than 38 hours a week. Many folk do that and commute and commute two hours a day. But remember, commuters tend to sleep every NIGHT, get all their weekends off and hence aren't fighting jet lag all their lives. A study I read many years ago said that a career of shift work knocks on average about 5 years off your life expectancy.

Pilot is one of the easiest of the responsible jobs. You set your parking brake and go home. Everyone else can't do that. Well, as has been pointed out it is not the cruise phase when we demonstrate all our responsibility, when the perception is we are sitting there drinking coffee and chatting. The main responsibility is the WHAT IF and remaining ahead of the game, waiting, perhaps a whole career for the bad day of all days when you are called upon to demonstrate your professional skills under quite possibly extreme pressure. THAT is what we get paid for. We can't set the parking brake then and go home......

I have responsibility for up to 180 people up to 4 times a day, plus countless thousands of people on the ground. Well Dave, I would take slight issue with that comment. The CAPTAIN has that responsibility on a daily basis, not the F/O (I am assuming you are an F/O and not a very badly paid captain?). You have the POTENTIAL to take that responsibility IF the captain is incapacitated. Even when you are at the controls, the ultimate responsibility is that of the captain. That is why he/ she gets paid considerably more than the F/O.

The fact you get paid as you do is because you are willing to be paid that amount. If you weren't, and nobody else was either, the employer would have to pay more. Very true words from M Mouse. It's market forces. If you don't think you are paid enough, you need to motivate yourself and your colleagues into action, usually through a union to demand more. An employer is always going to pay the minimum they can get away with and starry eyed wanabees for this profession are driving down the going rate for new entrants, that plus the fact that they are 'in for a penny, in for a pound' by the time they get the licence issued and simply have to bend over and take what they can get. Again, employers have seen this opportunity to drive down the starting salaries by exploiting those individuals, so they do.

I had a neigbour once who flew for a major airline. He told me that they lived entirely off his allowances and stashed his salary every month. Well, Heathrow Director, those days are gone for anyone joining the industry now. It sounds like the individual you refer to was one of the 'golden generation', from my parents era who had the best opportunities that this country has ever been able to offer; a good education, lifetime employment if you wanted it, gold seal pensions, biggest house price increases ever, less 'red tape' surrounding everything and probably the ability to choose some of the best 'lifestyle' options ever too. Lucky them eh?

We've had all this discussion before and it usually ends up with us being compared to doctors and the like. But look at the average GP. His salary has increased significantly in the last year or so. He trains for 7 years, pretty much what the average captain will have done I would guess. He can opt out of night work now, the average captain can't. He works predominantly 9-5, the average captain doesn't. He sees a continuous flow of basic ailments, which probably don't stretch his knowledge and professionalism that much; similar to an 'average' flight I would guess. He gets the odd case where he doesn't know what it is. He assesses if the person is going to drop dead from it and if not, goes through a process of elimination using various tried and trusted 'catch alls', like antibiotics. If there is no improvement he refers them on to a more senior, specialist colleague. Some responsibility there, but only 'life and death' in terms of being negligent in not referring them. Your average captain however, when faced with a 'real life' problem cannot just pass it on to a senior colleague. He has a finite amount of time in which to make decisions, possibly without all the info he needs, sometimes faced with choices between two or more 'undesirables', where there is no easy option. That is where the jobs start to differ and IMHO where the captain takes on considerably more responsibility than your average GP. I would compare him more to a surgeon who encounters complications with an operation every once in a while and who has to then think on his toes and come up with solutions to difficult problems.

It is this KNOWLEDGE and ability to make decisions under pressure, within finite constraints and with the 'real world' still flashing by that a captain gets paid for. Hopefully he will never have to use all his training, but I guarantee that for your £1.99 fare to Barcelona you will still expect him to be a well trained, respected professional if it all starts going wrong somewhere over the Pyrenees in the descent....;)

When I last looked I didn't notice many captain salaries on a par with surgeons though....:rolleyes:

PP

[Will Hung]

Hey Guys, ever heard of the most basic economic principle - SUPPLY AND DEMAND ?

[Lembrado]

PP

Comparing a pilots job (captain) with that of a surgeon is laughable - you imply that all operations are a routine affair.

Other than that comment, points well made.

L.

[markflyer6580]

I earned £36 for 9 hours yesterday! The joys of self employment!:mad:

[tiggerific_69]

Dave
you could be on a cabin crew salary...
work that one out as an hourly rate!

[mustafagander]

OK, tell me when a surgeon is "out there" unable to take advise from a soul. Airline captains live life that way - our biggest risk decisions are all done alone.

[puddle-jumper2]

Cwatters,

I also commute 2 hours a day. Some I know are up to 4 hours but that's pushing it.

As someone has already said though..... it's all about market forces and what your willing to put up with.

Surgeons are not easily replaced, neither are pilots. All the reason to fight for what we deserve. Q the union. :}

[anotherthing]

Dave,

you stated you paid £70k to train, you don't sleep very night, you work some weekends etc etc. Was this not apparent to you before you decided on your career?

Kingoftheslipstream - I am an ATCO working in the London TMA - if i was to sit down and work out my wage based on passengers I had controlled per year, I would be counting pennies per hour (cents) and possibly not even in the plural!!

I see you worked in the military beforehand - Iflew in the mil as well.... despite all your protestations, I bet you have to agree that flying in civvy street is far less demanding and is probably boring compared to your military days (unless of course you were a tanker or truckie).

Dave has a good job with a good wage. It's maybe not a wage that he feels is commensurate with his skill or responsibility - I would probably agree; I certainly feel I am underpaid at times!

The other things that come with it - unsocial hours etc is part and parcel of the job,it's a known factor and therefore anyone who pays good money to train to be a pilot has no right to then turn round years later and whinge about standard practices!!

[Pilot Pete]

PP

Comparing a pilots job (captain) with that of a surgeon is laughable - you imply that all operations are a routine affair. Not the intention. The comparison was with the decision making element when things go wrong. What I would say though is that surgeons plan their operations thoroughly, just like a captain does with each flight. To the surgeon who has done hundreds of operations in the same area, they are 'routine' to him (a quote from a recent surgeon who diagnosed at a small ganglion in my right hand). All operations have the potential for things to go wrong, just like any flight I conduct, but the vast majority go without hitch, or with relatively minor problems which are sorted out on the day, just like my average flight. So, sure, where anaesthetic is being used and patients vary from fit and healthy otherwise to obese smokers, there is an increased risk and therefore the term 'routine' is perhaps not appropriate in that context, but to the surgeon the operation is routine because he is so well planned and has made a full risk assessment before even thinking of putting 'knife to skin'. Exactly why a flight from A to B is pretty much routine too, although there is still the risk of things not going to plan.

As with the surgeon, we always have the option of not going (say really bad weather), just as he would do if he felt the risks associated with the operation outweighed the potential benefit to the patient.

Operations come in many shapes and sizes and with differing degrees of technical difficulty and associated risk. Again, just like flights: major city airport to major city airport in a heavily controlled environment, no terrain issues and a radar vectored ILS with an 8nm final is about at straightforward as it gets, but go to somewhere like Samos, where I went yesterday with terrain, an instrument approach offset by 90 degrees to the runway, a visual segment flown very close to terrain with a curved descent rolling out onto about a 2nm final with an 18 gusting 28 kt crosswind onto a short runway and you get the picture.....

Pioneering operations are delving into the possible unknown, with significantly increased risk of failure and complications. In this area the surgeon stands alone and can only be compared with the likes of space explorers, certainly not your average line pilot, but those are the Professors of their career, pushing the boundaries and are a 'cut above the rest' (pun intended!). I wouldn't dream of comparing a pilot to them, unless he was a test pilot breaking real new ground (bit like the supersonic test pilots).

The point I would make is that your average airline captain should (in an equal world) earn more than your average GP, probably somewhere near your average surgeon as the jobs are comparable in my mind. They aren't, due to market forces, and possibly the fact that surgeons are still members of an exclusive club, whereas pilots are not.

PP

[M.Mouse]

I recently flew with an FO who joined BA from Ryanair. A very balanced, likeable and competent individual who had achieved something like 2,500 hours with Ryanair. We spent an hour or two in the cruise discussing his previous employer.

I was truly staggered at the whole pilot package with Ryanair. It goes to prove that while their are plenty of us willing to virtually pay for the chance to do the job the salaries for newbies and with the smaller airlines will always be abysmal. As my man said it has subsequently proved worthwhile!

I cannot criticise anybody doing what is necessary to gain that elusive first job and subsequent experience but that willingness is the very thing which keeps them in relative poverty for so long and fuels the continued downward pressure on the higher salaries and benefits which I and my colleagues currently enjoy.

I believe it is called market forces.

Who is the dummy, Mr. O'Leary or the pilot willing to work for him?

[Human Factor]

well, sleeping in a 5 star hotel is also work...

I suppose it is as it's not time spent at home, although Dave didn't include that in his figures.

[UTRF]

Can't see your point old chap.
You spend most of your time sat on your backside watching dials and screens...not as if your over-worked, is it? :ouch:
Perhaps you want to spend some time behind the counter in McD's, on your feet all day, then you might get some sympathy.

[chandlers dad]

If you really want to be sad, look at what we pay someone to fix our plumbing in the house when it leaks. How about the gent working on your Porsche or Benz? Bet its not far under what most pilots with less than 10 years senority are making.

As well we get to look forwards to being a WalMart greeter or McDonnalds employee every six months when doing our sim ride or medical.

Yes, we did choose it for a vocation but the more and more they pile crap on the situation it sure makes me think about doing something else. Now just noticed that Delta, among others in the states, have been allowed by the court to stop paying pilots pensions. It just gets better and better...

CD

[Strepsils]

Some of the replies to this really make me wish this site was restricted to professional pilots only (and ATCO/ENG's).

You spend most of your time sat on your backside watching dials and screens...not as if your over-worked, is it?

I assume ignorance is bliss, UTRF? UYOA more like.:mad:


"Spend some time behind the counter in McD's"?

Would you really want the average McD's assistant in charge of your holiday/business flight?

You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

[Mac the Knife]

It worked out at £16.69/hour.

Since you're mentioning surgeons, at a very rough guess that's more or less what I get.

Before tax, of course.

:ok:

[d246]

Just look at what trained nurses get mate. They are worth much more than glorified HGV (airborne) drivers.

[Stan Woolley]

Funny how all the green-eyed monsters are full of it on here but the cabin goes all quiet when it's all dark and bumpy into Corfu at night!:yuk:

[speedrestriction]

A relation of mine is a junior doctor. Over the past three weeks she has worked 340 hours :eek: : 120 week one, 100 hours week two and 120 hours week three.

I don't really see what is to be gained by comparing a pilots lot with that of a doctor. Suffice to say that hundreds of pounds per hour wouldn't be enough if I didn't have time to enjoy it or relax.

SR

[colmac747]

I'll chip in from a dossers point of view. I'm not stupid, i just didn't apply myself:rolleyes: Still, one is on just under a tenner an hour for being a postman.

Postman. Pilot. Surgeon. The law of averages would say pilot and surgeon should really earn triple or more per hour(?) from what i do - you worked/trained for it - you should earn it etc - doesn't seem to be the case reading some of the replies on here.

[Pilot Pete]

A relation of mine is a junior doctor.

Junior doctor, so compare like with like: trainee pilot, who gets paid nothing and who in fact has to spend £60-70k on that training. However, I do agree that junior doctors do too many hours and that is a safety issue which is coming more to the fore, in fact I thought those kind of hours had already been restricted for junior doctors? Fact is that the errors made by these doctors had remained hidden for years and hence the problem could be denied. Aviation has been regulated for max duty hours for a long time as it would be much harder to hide the fact that a pilot crashed an aeroplane whilst in his 36th continuous hour of work...........

PP

[Big Tudor]

Sorry Dave but your sums aren't adding up. Flight crew in the UK have come under the EU regulations for Mobile Staff in Aviation for the last couple of years. This directive restricts pilots & cabin crew to 2,000 duty hours per year. A £40k salary for 2,000 hours a year works out at £20 per hour.

Even CAP371 wouldn't get your hourly rate that low. Your limited to 190 hrs in 28 days. Assuming you took your 4 weeks leave in a year you would have had 12 periods of 28 days giving a max of 2,280 hrs. Even this gives you an hourly rate of £17.54 from a salary of £40k.

Just a minor point but how much of your annual duty hours were spent at home on standby. Granted it is still duty time, but I can't think of many professions who get paid £20 (£16) per hour for sitting at home!

[speedrestriction]

so compare like with like: trainee pilot


Since she is a qualified doctor and not a medical student, surely a junior FO would be a closer comparison.

A rate of £16.99 per hour or any other amount cannot be assessed in isolation from quality of life.

I certainly don't believe that the propensity for a worker's mistake to cause death and destruction should be a benchmark for earnings.

SR

[Blacksheep]

Not the intention. The comparison was with the decision making element when things go wrong.I prefer the comparison of when things go right.

When the flight goes to plan I arrive at my destination, worn out and knackered but alive. I've done it hundreds of times.

I've only had the one operation, but the surgeons and surgical team who did the job certainly saved my life. I know who I regard most highly - but then I'm biased. ;)

(For the record, Blacksheep would make £18.30 nett a month for a 40 hour week. Unfortunately I put in around 230 a month so its only £13.68)

[puddle-jumper2]

So the question is........ Why after a hundred flights are you still alive. ?... or it could have been 10,000 flights and still alive.

There's a reason for that that some people on here simply fail to see.:rolleyes:

[CaptainProp]

I assume he has worked out duty hours rather than flying duty hours.
Could be more than double the FDP total.

Correct! And this is a problem in our industry I think, hear all the time that "Well, you can only work your 900 hrs so whats the prob?" Well, we are working hell of a lot more then that. Look at ezy at the moment... How about 4 sectors (one as operating crew, rest dead legs) and 14 hrs duty the other week...Only 1 1/2 hrs counting towards my 900 hrs...
/CP

[Brakes...beer]

CaptainProp

Perhaps, but your example is specious. The CAA limits us to 190 hrs duty in 28 consecutive days (CAP 371), so an average of a 47.5 hr week. I'd be surprised if any airline had such inefficient rostering that it had its crews on duty for this long every week in order to get 900 hrs' flying out of them.

In general, as M Mouse said a couple of pages ago, we are paid what we are prepared to work for. We're not the only people with lives literally in our hands, and neither is this the sole definition of a job's worth in 'moral' terms. Yes, it cost me a fair whack to get the licence, but I reckon I'm fairly paid and I enjoy the job, so I carry on doing it.

[PAXboy]

The other factors in annual remuneration may include:
Paid annual holiday
Paid sick leave
Occupational pension
Further training


Those of us that work freelance (me, not as a pilot) do not get these things. When I was working freelance in telecommunications, it is true that my hourly rate was often more than £16.69 but I got no fringe benefits and when the contract was over, I might be unemployed for one week/month before the next job was secured. That is why freelances get more per hour.

People that are paid by the hour usually get more per hour than those paid by the year, because the hourly paid are not paid for every day of the year. Pilot's (usually) are employed for the whole year and into the future, unless they fall ill or make significant enough mistake to be dismissed. So this sounds like an Apples 'n Oranges comparison.

But let me state that I am well aware of the difficulties, pay and prospects of being a pilot. My nephew is now 30 years old and been a commercial pilot for nearly ten years. First as freelance, then in regional (to LHS) and now climbing the ladder in a mainline. So I am not unsympathetic.

There are VERY few people these days who think they are paid enough for what they do. Across the whole range of work that my friends do (including a barrister and a medical doctor) very few indeed think that they are well done by. I am self employed, working longer hours than I wish and having great difficulty in dragging the fees up higher. This is life in the West in the 21st Century.

[stickandrudderman]

Well said PAXBOY,
Some people just don't know when they're well off!
I wish I got paid to sit in the most high tech office in the world and see the sunshine everyday!
Instead I have to slave my guts out running my own business 24/7, all so I can snatch the odd hour here and there in my Chipmunk.
Get a life!:ugh:

[crundale]

Without debating the rights and wrongs, a light hearted note.... :eek:
I know of several UK airlines who battled with the government, as their junior cabin crew were deemed to be working below the national minimum wage - as indeed they are if you divide basic by duty hours. It was only because of the "guaranteed" duty pay that they raised above that level...
So when its all dark and stormy on the way into Corfu... and you want a coffee before you start your descent.... ;)

[MercenaryAli]

I am paid the grand sum of £14.49 per hour worked after paying Gordon his rake off. However, I drink plenty of coffee, enjoy the company of my colleagues, sleep in my own bed [most times :-) ] and most of all I enjoy my work. I fly for a "Quasi government organistion"

By contrast if I were a military man [still ] I would be highly pxssed off that BLiar had sent me all the way to Iraq or Afghanistan to fight his nasty little war for the princely sum of around £2 an hour with the ever increasing likelyhood of having my ass blown off at any time, day or night!

Think about it - if you don't like your job, quit and become an MP they are disgustingly overpaid. over ambitious and general under worked! :ugh: