Merged: Aboriginal Air Service in Dire Straits

[Outkast]

I have heard all sorts of things about Aboriginal Air Services lately -

- NG Air separating from them in Alice Springs
- ending their Darwin services

Something about poor financial decisions, lies, bad management and lots more lies.

Of course it's only a rumour! Anyone got any more goss?

[Mr.Buzzy]

Yep another one bites the dust!

The amazing thing is that we dont even have to know the full story but we can all be sure that bean counters and "brilliant management" will be loading the boots of their BMWs and Mercs getting ready to drive their abbo money loaded arses out of town in air conditioned comfort.

Good luck to all the real people affected by this! It's always the people that work hardest and invest the most that come off worst in these messes!

bbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzGO CROC GO!bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzbzzzzzzzzzz

[Enufsaid]

Well Well Well...
An aboriginal airline suffering the same outcome as the others, Anindilyakwa Air and AIR NGUKURR
These companies should have had a serious look at their management styles, one can't take the Govt money for granted. An aboriginal grant to keep the business afloat? Keep it real, what next, an Italian restaurant asking the Sicilian mafia for money because their food is **** ...
esp the last two companies still standing given they had the "Pinman" working for them

For those managers What comes around goes around, 9 slade court is haunted with my rainbow serpent spirit....:} Dreamtime

Buzzy you're right about the BMWs and Mercs, if only you could sell them to pay out the pilots's unpaid entitlements.

[theoutback]

Its a pitty....there was a future...just couldnt apply good management skills and long term strategy to pull it off. Sound familiar ?:ugh:

[Mr.Buzzy]

There has never been a company like the Anindilyakwa Air of the mid to late nineties.

Those that worked there during these years well know that staff were treated incredibly well and were part of a very unique GA outfit run by a very talented couple.

So many of us owe so much to the Wacwacs of this time and the great people working there.
If you are reading this GB. Best wishes to you and your family. Happy father's day and please know that my career and hence life was made a great difference by you.:ok: :ok: :ok:

To the current crop of hotshot "managers", do some homework, find out about the success enjoyed by the Anindilyakwa of the mid to late nineties and see also that screwing staff was not part of the "business strategy"
kindest regards
Buzzy.

bbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zz

[PLovett]

In relation to Aboriginal Air Services I believe an administrator was called in last Tuesday who after looking over the books and the prospects for the company pulled the pin on any further trading on Friday thus making a number of people unemployed.

The causes are many but the catalyst for calling in the administrator was one of the four aboriginal councils deciding to withdraw from the agreement with Aboriginal Air Services. This also effectively took a number of aircraft away from AAS (stand to be corrected but I believe 2 x C208 B and 1 x C210). Their decision to withdraw was, I believe, based on having to continue to fund the operation without seeing much benefit.

That particular aboriginal council also owns and operates Aboriginal Aircraft and Maintenance Services (the maintenance base in Alice Springs) which continues to trade.

My sympathies to those out of work and I hope you soon find another job.

[huntsman]

so, just to clarify, has all of AAS bitten the dust? or just a certain part of the overall company?

[Di_Vosh]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20347844-23349,00.html

[bullamakanka]

It is about time this organisation was made to be accountable for the amount of money it loses each year.

I know a lot of people bang on about how great it is working there, but the reality is, the way its run is just not realistic.

Hope fully they can restructure and keep crew employed. Needs a drastic change of senior management and a new work ethic throughout the joint.

bulla

[bushy]

There is no need for anyone to subsidise anything. Air charter companies were providing all the services needed before aboriginal air existed, and they can do so again now.

There have been too many govt subsidies, and distortions of the free trade syatem. This is not the first problem they have had.

The previous management group raised money from the public to help pay the bills.

It's all to do with building empires. At our expense.

Charter and RPT AOC's should not be issued to "not for profit" organisations. This is one of the major reasons that GA is having problems. No-one can compete with organisations that are allowed to continually lose money, and get topped up every now and again.

Sorry for the crews, but others will expand, and need crew to take up the slack.

[topend3]

Interesting, not so long after AirNorth abandoned these routes and now AAS is having a tough time of it...


Aboriginal air service on verge of closing
Jeremy Roberts
September 04, 2006
MORE than 60 communities across remote Australia could be without regular flights from as early as tomorrow, after the company that runs them was placed in voluntary administration last week.
The board of Aboriginal Air Services voted last Tuesday to bring in an administrator, who is understood to have told staff on Friday the company will fly its last scheduled flights today.

Charters for mining companies, governments and Aboriginal communities were at risk of reduced services, AAS general manager Anthony Sandford warned yesterday.

AAS, which has four propeller aircraft, has never made a profit in its 20-year history and has been propped up by its shareholders -- four Aboriginal groups from central Australia -- with large management fees.

Sources close to AAS said regular flights through Arnhem Land would be halted tomorrow. The flights land at 10 communities, twice a day, and once a day on weekends.

If the service is withdrawn, it will leave the area more isolated, especially when the rainy season makes roads impassable.

While Mr Sandford said it was "business as usual" at AAS, he added: "There is a risk that services will be downsized or reduced in frequency."

Mr Sandford called on the governments of the Northern Territory, Western Australia and South Australia to subsidise the Aboriginal services by $2.2 million a year.

AAS administrator Austin Taylor, of Meertons Administrators in Darwin, did not return calls. But Mr Taylor is understood to have told a meeting of AAS staff at Alice Springs on Friday that 32 of them would be made redundant, including 16 pilots. Mr Sandford said the reported number of redundancies was exaggerated.

[Fliegenmong]

Dire Straits?? not Torres Straits ??:8 :}

[Led Zep]

BMW steering wheels don't give you blisters on your little fingers...:8

Ngaanyatjarra Air was/in part of AAS? :confused: I remember they had a PC-12 out of PH but I can't remember the last time I saw that.

[PLovett]

Led Zep

The PC12 went a long time ago. Sold to the NT Police who still operate it out of Alice Springs.

Further to my earlier post I do stand corrected as some AAS operations are continuing.

[Utradar]

It's such a pity that companies with so much potential such as the old wac wacs and ngukurr lose so much money. They have so much business! I can't stress enough that a good ops manager (allowed to make own decisions) and CEO can make or break a company.

I just can't believe the amount of money that one of these companies lost due to poor ops decisions and intervention by CEO who had no opererational experience. The pilots were just shaking their heads in disbelief!

Wac Wacs of the 90s was the best charter company in Darwin. Such a pity that the likes of 'C**** Dunnowhatimdoin with an attitude' and others took over and stuffed it! Yes darling you started it! Unfortunatly, companies like this fail when it's run by the wrong people with no aviation experience who think that money will just roll in when needed.

Good luck to the crews of AAS. Redundancy can be a blessing in disguise sometimes!

[Howard Hughes]

And here I was thinkin this was gunna be about "Money for nothing" ...:8
You forgot and "your chicks for free"... eeeew!!

[Hugh Jarse]

Mark Knopfleryunnipingu:suspect: the lead singer and guitarist?

[Pluto's gone]

In DN the other day and as a mate said to me...

That corner building... must be haunted...

First it was Wimray... (shoulda stayed in the lovely demountables of old!)
Then it was Air Ngukurr...
Now its Abo Air...

Just doesn't seem right that corner not covered in black fellas and rubbish...

1.2.3... gonnnneeee...

[tinpis]

Maybe the building needs to be smoked? http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/cannibal.gifhttp://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/hippie.gif

[Muffinman]

Tin - Just call a meeting of all the council members to the building first. Best of wishes to all the crews and the staff - hopefully NGS will resale enough for the entitlements.

[zac21]

:D Go,, Muffin Man,, Go,,, and dont look back !!!:D

[bush mechanics]

Couldnt believe my ears last night when IMPARJA NEWs ran the story and qouted AAS management saying that aboriginal peoples live are now in danger as Medical Supplys cant be delivered.
They failed to mention that NG council pulled out,Lets just blame the white fella.
Now they will use the aboriginal Health issue to get government funding,
Clare will probaly give it to them.
If the NT gov wants to spend 2.2 mill they should call for tenders and let everyone take a piece of the pie.
Also heard that Grant Kennys has purchased more C208 for lease to AAs
Well must be going,Got to catch my Abo Air flight to Cooberpedy!!!!NOT!!!!

[bushy]

I heard on the news that Claire wil NOT provide money to bail out Aboriginal Air. Nor should we, the taxpayers have to do that.

The charter companie can supply the services needed. They did in the past, and they can do so again. Charter companies should not have to compete with organisations that continually lose money, and get a "top-up" when necessary.
These organisations also operate charter and RPT services. They have many unfair commercial advantages.
I wonder what the ACCC etc would think about this.(if they knew)

[ga_trojan]

Yes for some reason NG have been very hostile to the whole Aboirginal Air concept over the past few years. However they are about to find how difficult CASA are if they want to go it on their own. CASA is a problem that has always been taken are of by the AAS setup. CASA will not let them run psudeo RPT as a startup AOC so they will have to get their act together in a big way. Even if they wanted to borrow an AOC; very few people have all the ASEPTA stuff covered. The operation has to be IFR as there is to much WX around and you can't have people stuck in hotels/hostels/communities for a week while it clears!! :} So you may find that they have spat the dummy only to discover in about 6 months how difficult running such an operation is.

As for "letting everyone else have a go" well I think you have buckleys at the moment as there is way to much freight and passengers for the PA31/C402 brigade. Go find yourself a C208 with an IFR AOC and then have a crack.

[OpsNormal]

The operation has to be IFR as there is to much WX around

Are you talking about the same AAS that everyone else is? Wow, a bit of wx around Alice is usually confined to November-December, and the occaisional well spaced storms or lower trough or system that comes down from the NW for a few days at a time. The same Alice Springs that only loses about 4-6 days a year to wx?

The HOO and northern operation is different again, and is probably easier to fly VFR than IFR in the C208.

The KAL run would possibly see about the same amount of IF that anyone else would see banging around the coast.

After living and working in and around Alice for a number of years, the biggest problem for most aircrew coming out of Alice is not enough instrument time for their TT. I took an opportunity to go to DN within the company I was working for at the time to gain this. However that shouldn't be such a concern to those from AAS should they find themselves looking for work now, there are a couple of operators looking for people properly procedurally trained to put into twins right now. They just need to find those companies.;)

OpsN.;)

[ga_trojan]

Ops Normal while the weather around Alice Springs maybe fine most of the time Abo Air were operating across 1/3 of continental Australia. Winters in Kalgoorlie are usually good fun with all sorts of stuff coming in of frontal systems, not to mention fog and low cloud and the odd dead cyclone in the summer, add to this dust storms etc, doesn't make for a very fun trip VFR! Often the destination might be CAVOK but getting there through whatever was around was the IFR bit. While not happening everyday, you couldn't operate a regular service like that VFR, too much hassle and expense, especially when you have people with doctors appointments, planes to catch etc etc.

'Proceedural training' doesn't count for squat either unfortunately, it's all about numbers in right columns of logbooks!:(

[OpsNormal]

Ops Normal while the weather around Alice Springs maybe fine most of the time Abo Air were operating across 1/3 of continental Australia. Winters in Kalgoorlie are usually good fun with all sorts of stuff coming in of frontal systems, not to mention fog and low cloud and the odd dead cyclone in the summer, add to this dust storms etc, doesn't make for a very fun trip VFR! Often the destination might be CAVOK but getting there through whatever was around was the IFR bit. While not happening everyday, you couldn't operate a regular service like that VFR, too much hassle and expense, especially when you have people with doctors appointments, planes to catch etc etc.

You're trying to preach to the choir. They certainly covered some ground, but no less than any other operator must cover in day to day operations. You're forgetting that there is an even larger company at the other end of the airfield, with bases much further spread than AAS.

'Proceedural training' doesn't count for squat either unfortunately, it's all about numbers in right columns of logbooks!:(

And you've also proven that (like most people only seeing what they want to see) you are unable to pick-up on the more 'subtle' hints dropped during posting from time to time. Re-read that last paragraph of my previous post. Closely this time.... :oh: .

[bullamakanka]

"Yes for some reason NG have been very hostile to the whole Aboirginal Air concept over the past few years."

GA Trojan, this is because AAS has lost way to much money of theirs!

"Go find yourself a C208 with an IFR AOC and then have a crack."

There are a few of these around too.

You sound like a very loyal AAS worker, which is good. However the operation they run is not the rocket science that you make it out to be. It is difficult but that can not be used as an excuse for it to be continually unsustainable.

The model needs to change and good on NG for doing making a step in that direction.

Bulla

[ga_trojan]

I don't think you guys actually realise how much influence CASA had over that particular operation. When I say it's going to be difficult I don't mean in a operational sense but in a legal one. CASA have already stated in the past that if anyone wants to break away from the Abo Air legal framework it has to be RPT. Which means you must get all your strips up to RPT standard, Proper C & T system, high minimum requirements, aerodrome reporting officers etc etc. I hardly think that CASA Adelaide will be letting you run RPT on a borrowed AOC either. I think NG will run into a heap of CASA related issues if they want to have a operation resembling anything they they have had in the past. The only way it will work is if it goes pure charter and the communities share the cost of charter aircraft directly to run mail and passengers. Otherwise I can't see it happening if CASA still takes the same point of view over mail flights.

[OpsNormal]

....it has to be RPT. Which means you must get all your strips up to RPT standard, Proper C & T system, high minimum requirements, aerodrome reporting officers etc etc....

and....

... Otherwise I can't see it happening if CASA still takes the same point of view over mail flights.


Does that mean you'll have to do things the way other Low Cap RPT operators (albeit in adjacent states) already have to do it?

Perish the thought, that might cost money.... :rolleyes:

[bush mechanics]

Rumour has it!!!!If more than 10 paxs showed up for a C208 flight they would down grade to VFR Charter to get around the req for single engine rpt.A operator in darwin tried RPT in a Van and had to run 2 crew and fly a dog leg over land to get to Bathurst Island,
As iI said,Rumour has it!
Abiut time all the money these councils get should be used to develop there communitys,not buying up realerstate and asking for more government funding

[OpsNormal]

Heya Bush, howya bin eh? Heard you the "Chief Ginger" nowadays... good one mate.;)

[Mathew Black]

It's a pity AAS, a brilliant company has been destroyed through bad management by the GM and his team of buddies with a record for destroying companies.
In the last few months safety standards had slipped to the point where a senior pilot tried to glide a Caravan about ten miles further than possible after inexplicably deciding to shut the engine down resulting in a near miss with power lines.:D

[trailingedge]

pilot tried to glide a Caravan about ten miles further than possible after inexplicably deciding to shut the engine down resulting in a near miss with power lines.:D

And you were there were you??? :ugh: