Automotive fuel in a R22

[funfinn2000]

Hello, have any of you guys ever put Auto fuel into your Helicopter?? Any problems?? Any info would be great.

[Helinut]

ff,

There was a thread about this a few weeks ago. Use the search facility and use the word Mogas which is the aviation name for automotive gas/petrol.

Basically, though in most uses you are not permitted to use it

[funfinn2000]

yeah , I seen picstures in a magazine once with a lot of scandanavian helicopters landing at a gas station and pushing them in for fuel. The Robinson safety course mentioned that it would be ok. I am not so convinced but it would be nice to have the option in case. ya never know when ya might hit a head wind.

FF

[brett s]

Will it work? Sure, but it's not legal in the US anyways without an STC - there is one available for the R22 for about $700.

[Aesir]

I believe that you would need a STC to run mogas in R22. The R44 does not have a mogas STC available.

Petersen aviation seems to offer some information as well as:

Mogas STC's for the Robinson R-22 are available through Howard Fuller , JTI Air Holdings, Inc., Shrewsbury, Mass. Contact Howard @ 508/757-0983.

I have no connection to the companies, just offering information!

I have myself often flown R22 on mogas and it makes no difference whatsoever. It´s all really old dinosaurs anyway.

[delta3]

Real story

Last year a pilot short of fuel landed near a dutch petrol station and filed it up with a jerrycan.

Unfortunatly a dutch telivision film crew was around, filming the "maneuvre". Talk about bad luck. Belgian officials got hold of that, and stated the engine had to be replaced, arguing Robinson does not allow this officially

d3

[flyby_heli]

There was a story in a Norwegian newspaper about 6 german registered R-22s who landed at a gas station in Norway. I think it was the summer of 2004. One of them had a low fuel light come on or something.

The automotive gas in Norway has a higher octane rating then the US though. 95 is considered regular, and 98 is premium.

flyby

[The Hustler]

The automotive gas in Norway has a higher octane rating then the US though. 95 is considered regular, and 98 is premium.What is the mogas octane rating in the US?

[rotornut]

I believe it's 94, the same as in Canada. Also, I wonder about the problem of valve lubrication since mogas is unleaded and avgas still contains lead. Do the Lycoming engines in the Robbies require lead for valve lubrication like the older automobile engines?

[brett s]

Octane available in the US varies depending on the area, with anywhere from 91-94 being "premium". Regular is normally 87 octane, there are a few areas where you can get a bit lower than that.

[funfinn2000]

Mechanics have told me in certain countries that yer best to use the highest octane available 98 is local here and back in the US it's very low and probably not good for engine. I know in California they put alocohol in the unleaded out there which is bad for the seals.

Come guys there has to be more of you out there that have used it.

[DanDareAir]

I was over in Germany for the world cup this summer and you could obtain 100 octane out of the gas pumps there. Regular 95, Super 98 and Super Premium 100. It certainly helped the Audi RS4 we were driving hit some eye bleeding speeds on the autobahns...! := However an R44 would have been a quicker option. ;)

[heliduck]

I have run an R22 on MOGAS/AVGAS mix to get me home & I agree with most previous comments re valve lubrication/octane rating etc. but an important point has not yet been mentioned - AVGAS has additives which makes it more resistant to vaporisation. Vaporisation can be caused by negative pressure in the fuel line (eg fuel pump suction lines) or overheated fuel (a lot of fuel injected engines are tricky to start when they are hot due to vaporisation in the fuel injection lines running past the cylinder heads).
The STC kit for the R22 addresses this by providing a ducting around the fuel bowl which directs cool air over the bowl to prevent the fuel from becoming too hot via heat from the engine bay. If the fuel did vaporise in the bowl the engine could miss or even stop which is generally not desirable & would usually occur when you had a high power demand from the engine.
Personally I believe the probability of vaporisation in a gravity fed system is pretty low but they obviously need to cover there bases. In my case I knew I wouldn't make it to the next available AVGAS & so I elected to land early & top up with MOGAS while I still had plenty of AVGAS in the tanks to mix it with.

[rotornut]

Interesting point, heliduck. Here in Canada there are 2 main types of mogas - winter and summer. The winter type is more volatile than the summer type to aid starting in extremely cold weather like -40 or even colder in some places. I know from experience that using winter gas in a carbureted automobile in warm weather can cause vapour lock. So I wonder what would happen in a Robbie. I don't think I'd want to find out.

Further to my earlier post, 94 is the highest octane available - Sunoco 94. The lowest - regular - is 87.