View Full Version : First Choice - Time to command?
Hi
Does anyone have an idea of the current time to command at First Choice?
This would be for someone joining as an F/O with around 2500 hours, half jet, half TP.
Thanks!
Around 8-10 years at the moment. The numbers promoted over the next few years wuill be affected by the arrival (or not!) of the B787 and the number of retirements. There is a big bulge of Captains who will not retire for 15 years or so (ie guys in their mid-40s), the B787 will be more expensive on crews than the current arrangement and there are no plans to expand that we are aware of, so make your own comclusions from that balancing act!
As I said originally, 8-10 years is not a bad guess at the moment but as in all things in this industry, that could change either way with little or no warning.
Hope this helps whatever decision you are tring to make!
If you are going to be an FO for that amount of time (probably the same for most IT operators), is First Choice a good place to be for an FO in terms of schedules, destinations, layovers (if there are any actual short-haul layovers), etc? If you are going to be an FO for a long while, it might as well be a nice place to be...
What's the likelihood or odds of starting on the 757 vs. the A320 at First Choice as a newhire? How about odds of 757 vs. A320 as a newhire at the LGW base?
Cheers
The basic set up there of routes and fleet does appeal, as does their basing. However I really wouldn't want to wait that long for a command.
Given the recent increase in retirement age it really isn't a surprise that so many are staying on.
Baron buzz
2nd Sep 2006, 09:01
NG708 - Does this mean that you have been offered a job from this years recruitment drive? Had my interview but havent heard anything yet?
Has anyone else heard?
Someone from inside the company told me that it was about 8 years to command, agreeing with what someone said earlier on in this thread.....
beamer
2nd Sep 2006, 11:42
Current time to Command probably a little less than eight years but as has been pointed out earlier, due to the previous history of the Company, there are a large number of people in the left hand seat who are in their forties and who are unlikely to leave FCA unless the marketplace or company itself drastically changes in the future. As with all airlines, there are contentious issues at the moment for pilots within FCA but the parent holiday company is well run and seems to have a clear plan for its future.
The question of retirement age is not clarified at the moment and clearly any
change to allow Captains to remain in the left hand seat after the age of 60 will have an effect upon promotion prospects - why anyone in their right mind would want to carry on at the age is beyond me but there you go !
Five years ago the Airbus fleet seemed to be in the ascendancy, now however its dying on the vine with two more regional bases going down the Boeing route added to the prospect of the 787 coming some time in the future. Longhaul operations are increasingly important to the Company with the expansion of the 767 fleet.
Riker - have a think about the regions rather than LGW - you might be pleasantly surprised.................
No - I haven't applied, just doing some reasearch.
Pilot Pete
3rd Sep 2006, 12:05
The question of retirement age is not clarified at the moment and clearly any change to allow Captains to remain in the left hand seat after the age of 60 will have an effect upon promotion prospects - why anyone in their right mind would want to carry on at the age is beyond me but there you go ! Well, a good number of our 'over 60' captains have been allowed to stay until 65 pending the change to the rules in a month or so. This despite their original contracts stating 60 as their NRA. Apparently some of them threatened legal action and the company decided to allow them to stay. Do NOT be surprised if this becomes the norm in all UK carriers; I can't imagine FCA or anyone else wanting to fight the test case under EU law...... so add a few years on to current estimates for time to command, which of course WILL have changed by the time you get to that timescale. I joined Tfly (Britannia) when it was 15 years to command and got one in just over 2 years; right place, right time and a change in the market/ model.
FCA will have changes in the coming years and if longhaul increases significantly and the 787 is going to be 'heavier' on crews then there may well be a significant reduction in the projections for command opportunities. Equally though, tough summers like this year could put the brakes on things.
PP
CAP509castaway
3rd Sep 2006, 14:44
Baron Buzz,
Check your PM's
cheers
Eye off the ball
5th Sep 2006, 20:48
Pilot Pete is on the money in my opinion.
The retirement age legislation will doubtless affect all airlines and broadly to the same extent. How much they will all be affected remains to be seen but command times are unlikely to go down.
As a recent FCA joiner, I was told around 8 years and this seems to remain the official line. We're retreating from the lower margin and more competitive short haul game a bit but are expanding long haul fairly quickly. 787, if it arrives, will help considerably in the long haul opportunities and, as has been said before, long haul is more crew intensive than short haul. My guess (and it's only that) is that, with a little expansion, a command could come round in as little as 6 years but it will take a huge event to reduce it any further than that. In contrast, some pretty small events such as age legislation could easily extend it to 10 years.
It's a long time, granted, but that's because we're not losing many pilots and there's a good reason for that. FCA is a good place to be at the moment (though it hasn't always been) so few are leaving to go elsewhere. For a charter, that says a lot. I suspect that a 15% pension, expanding long haul, a good Pilot Scheduling agreement (with healthy BALPA membership and a good CC), 787 orders (with options for more), strong parent company management, and a vastly improved lifestyle are some of the reasons. On balance, I'd say it's a pretty fair deal.
zero-lash valve lifter
6th Sep 2006, 21:00
My only thoughts as to First Choice and the other non schedule carriers is whether they have a long future ahead of them. Will they still be about in 30 years time to draw the 15% pension? Getting squeezed out of short haul by low cost, one wonders if some consolidation will be forthcoming. Are BA and Virgin the only long term bets for continuous employment?
zero
aileron
7th Sep 2006, 07:42
FCA started in April 1987. (20 years give or take) Ive been with them for 10 years. My pension is mine and I'll take it with me if anything happens. (Money Purchase).
Youre in the wrong profession if you think youll hold down a job with the same employer for 30 years.
As far as BA or Virgin go.............BA isnt even close to being the same airline to work for as it was in 1987. Virgin laid off plenty of chaps post 9-11.
sagaris
7th Sep 2006, 08:23
Virgin laid off plenty of chaps post 9-11 as did many others. Virgin did however give the VAST majority of those unfortunate souls their jobs back within a short space of time. Its still the no. 1 employer in my opinion, beats BA, Cathay etc as their T's & C's are not erroded at the same rate (hopefully I haven't spoken too soon!).
Barring a 150k pa job flying twins off a white sandy beach somewhere off Fiji, I think Virgin are about as good as it gets (IMO).