GAMA

[leavit]

Just heard,100% of GLA based pilots looking for new jobs with 3 working notice at present !
What does that tell you ?
Confused at PD.

[Phil Brockwell]

I have no insight, but would expect that they are Kingair pilots who are building lots of hours on turboprops and ready to take a step to jets / larger aircraft.

Aren't most Kingair Pilots working towards the next aircraft?

Phil

[leavit]

I have no insight, but would expect that they are Kingair pilots who are building lots of hours on turboprops and ready to take a step to jets / larger aircraft.

Aren't most Kingair Pilots working towards the next aircraft?

Phil

No,these guys have been here for 6 months since the base opened !

[Margarita]

...and now ready to move on?

[Phil Brockwell]

I don't know how many turbine hours they've built over that time, but suspect it is an increase in job options based on that more than indicative of conditions etc.
Has anyone asked them.
Phil

[leavit]

I don't know how many turbine hours they've built over that time, but suspect it is an increase in job options based on that more than indicative of conditions etc.
Has anyone asked them.
Phil

Well,yes that would be a stab in the dark at the reason (but wrong unfortunately as I believe !)

[Jinkster]

does anyone have an email for Gamma?

PM if you may!

Jinkster :ok:

[lobanski]

Just heard,100% of GLA based pilots looking for new jobs with 3 working notice at present !
What does that tell you ?
Confused at PD.

So what, and your point is?

It's clear you're not a Gama employee.

[Sherry Bobbins]

Jinkster,

Check your PM's.

SB

[Dai Rear]

GAMA operation at GLA is a shambles. An object lesson on how not to run a new operation.
See my entry on the other thread "Medevac/Air Ambulance Work"
A frightening and danegerous place to work.

[unimuts]

Dai Rear

A frightening and danegerous place to work.

What is dangerous ? Glasgow ? or GAMA ?

If it is GAMA then should you not tell the CAA ? :confused:

unimuts

[lobanski]

GAMA operation at GLA is a shambles. An object lesson on how not to run a new operation.
See my entry on the other thread "Medevac/Air Ambulance Work"
A frightening and danegerous place to work.


Another moron talking out of place.....

I believe it's slander........

[Phil Brockwell]

It's only one persons definition, and who knows how qualified that persons opinion is to define shambles.

Judging by Rears name he obviously has an axe to grind.

I'm sure the person who cleans my office thinks my desk is a shambles....who cares?

Phil

[The Streets]

I just dont believe for one minute the sort of garbage being spouted on this thread about Gama.

I can only talk from the days that the King Airs flew out of ABZ, the contract back then was tough and demanding and requires a certain type of individual that can react to getting woken up at 01:00 and respond to the mission, in the 2 years that I was involved I dont think I ever heard a grumble as the conditions were tough (they knew what they were getting into) but the rewards were good, as was the time off etc etc. Most of the guys back then seemed to get a buzz out of the fact that they really were naking a contribution to saving lives.

I cant comment on todays operation, but I find it very difficult to believe things have changed that much, the infrastructure at Gama was superb and the management was sound and always aproachable.

[leavit]

Just Watch This Space !

[Phil Brockwell]

Any current Gama Kingair chaps care to comment on this unsubstantiated hogwash.

I'm sure if any real scary dangerous stuff was going on it would have received more factual posts from people on the inside than this bar room tosh.

Sometimes people have to fly in the dark when it's windy....hmmmmmm.

Phil

[leavit]

The only 'frightening and dangerous' thing about this company is management's inept ability to run the operation properly ! Apparently the rostering is a shambles. Talked to several at abz about the gla base and all is definitely not well there.Also the abz base is now bringing into question the antics of the management.

[Phil Brockwell]

Without any knowledge of Gama's specific ops, it's an air ambulance contract and by definition incredibly dificult to roster......your perception that it is a shambles is probably best interpreted as it's tricky and sometimes involves some firefighting, like all ad-hoc last minute rostering.

I assume I am talking to someone who has a good knowledge of airline ops management and am not patronising someone unqualified to comment?

I think if you cannot come up with something concrete, and your observations are based on a couple of pilots bar room end of a long day moaning you should be careful about tainting a companies reputation.

Phil

[cambioso]

"I think if you cannot come up with something concrete, and your observations are based on a couple of pilots bar room end of a long day moaning you should be careful about tainting a companies reputation."

Hear Hear Phil!!

I think "Leavit" should come clean about his connection with this fable or at least address specifics eh??

Jez.

[Phil Brockwell]

I'm sure Eddie Stobbart has the same problem with his drivers :E

[bacardi walla]

Shame they reply to email job applications though hey ??

[oscarzulu]

Leavit has a point, something's definitely amiss at Gama, morale at FAB is desperate, at least 3 serving notice and 2 more that I know of, just about to serve theirs. The lack of roster and open ended trips seems to be the main source of unhappiness. There is a very high level of professionalism, with lots of good people, but with the current, exteme level of activity, the whole plot is pulled to the buffet, not sure anybody is listening to all the horns!:{

[leavit]

"I think if you cannot come up with something concrete, and your observations are based on a couple of pilots bar room end of a long day moaning you should be careful about tainting a companies reputation."

Hear Hear Phil!!

I think "Leavit" should come clean about his connection with this fable or at least address specifics eh??

Jez.

As I said earlier,'Watch this space'

[Itswindyout]

I hear that they are selling a G4, and it is a heap.

Is this true?

A few years ago GAMA where the leading Moscow operation; paying good money, free hospitality for crew.!!!!, good rosters, and even perhaps respect. and good clients.

Then GAMA lost a good contract, and then the rot set in.

Whats next?

Removal of crew from Renaissance hotel in Moscow to apartments. Thats the rumour.

Guys "vote" with your feet.

windy

[leavit]

[quote=Phil Brockwell;2830325]Without any knowledge of Gama's specific ops, it's an air ambulance contract and by definition incredibly dificult to roster......your perception that it is a shambles is probably best interpreted as it's tricky and sometimes involves some firefighting, like all ad-hoc last minute rostering.

I assume I am talking to someone who has a good knowledge of airline ops management and am not patronising someone unqualified to comment?

I think if you cannot come up with something concrete, and your observations are based on a couple of pilots bar room end of a long day moaning you should be careful about tainting a companies

No,Phil I am qualified to comment but as I, said'watch this space !'
Its a pity this outfit is not as professional as some of their pilots are.
The Air Ambulance is a job which is not for the faint-hearted in winter especially and takes enthusiasm and dedication.

[grimsdale]

As a current member of staff at Gama, I feel I have to answer some of the criticisms:

I hear that they are selling a G4, and it is a heap.

Is this true?


Yes, the G4 is for sale (as are all aircraft for the right price). It's not the newest of aircraft, but it's a perfectly good G4. And it's only for sale because the owner has upgraded to a G550.


Then GAMA lost a good contract, and then the rot set in.


The contract was not a good contract - infact I believe the owner of the aircraft we lost is struggling to find an operator for them once the current managment contract expires


Whats next?

Removal of crew from Renaissance hotel in Moscow to apartments. Thats the rumour.


Simply not true.


Apparently the rostering is a shambles.


The CAA have just conducted their first routine audit since the start of the new ambulance contract, during which they looked at the rostering at GLA & ABZ, and raised no concerns. Incidentally, no pilots at GLA or ABZ have raised any problems with rostering through the company's internal quality system.

[leavit]

As a current member of staff at Gama, I feel I have to answer some of the criticisms:



Yes, the G4 is for sale (as are all aircraft for the right price). It's not the newest of aircraft, but it's a perfectly good G4. And it's only for sale because the owner has upgraded to a G550.



The contract was not a good contract - infact I believe the owner of the aircraft we lost is struggling to find an operator for them once the current managment contract expires



Simply not true.



The CAA have just conducted their first routine audit since the start of the new ambulance contract, during which they looked at the rostering at GLA & ABZ, and raised no concerns. Incidentally, no pilots at GLA or ABZ have raised any problems with rostering through the company's internal quality system.

Thats a laugh ! The arrogance of this management beggars belief !
'internal quality system'........exists only on paper !
This outfit suffers from 'Air taxi' mentality, apparently and is dismal in its attitude to its pilots !

[MrMutra]

I don't and never have worked for GAMA and this is only my observation, but as unimuts pointed out earlier by dai rear A frightening and danegerous place to work why has no one bothered to post exactly what is dangerous ? What should Air crew be aware of ?

No comments, Perhaps because there is no problem; maybe and I say MAYBE, Nothing dangerous too.

leavit

You cant really come on here and slate GAMA for explaining that nothing has been reported on the internal ordit. Fact is fact. If grimsdale is a liar and you know different, then why not explain.

Otherwise, if there is a serious situation then what can you lose ? Allegedly, as the flightcrew are leaving anyway, perhaps they need explain all.

So what exactly is dangerous then ? :confused:

:)

[leavit]

I don't and never have worked for GAMA and this is only my observation, but as unimuts pointed out earlier by dai rear why has no one bothered to post exactly what is dangerous ? What should Air crew be aware of ?

No comments, Perhaps because there is no problem; maybe and I say MAYBE, Nothing dangerous too.

leavit

You cant really come on here and slate GAMA for explaining that nothing has been reported on the internal ordit. Fact is fact. If grimsdale is a liar and you know different, then why not explain.

Otherwise, if there is a serious situation then what can you lose ? Allegedly, as the flightcrew are leaving anyway, perhaps they need explain all.

So what exactly is dangerous then ? :confused:

:)

I don't know what is meant by or who originally said the 'dangerous' bit but it certainly doesn't apply to anything I have seen so far.
This company has the same operating procedures as any other as far as limitations,minima,etc.and is operating in what can sometimes be a harsh environment which can often call for the pilots' skill to be frequently tested.............dangerous ....no !

[oscarzulu]

The 'dangerous' comment came from Dai Reader, I think he should clarify what he meant. For my part, and I've been close to the action for 18 months now and have never witnessed or heared of anything dangerous. Chaotic somtimes, thats the nature of this business, but never hazardous. So, Mr Reader, whats on your mind

[leavit]

:D Oh dear,oh dear...........What can we say! I say 'we' because this username is a cartel of 5 individuals.A recent bit of verbal abuse by p.m. ( turned out it was an attempt to identify one individual from this username and was very libellous) was wide of the mark by 80% in identifying that individual.

Cheers all !
(and watch this space)

[Phil Brockwell]

Now leavit,

I want you to read that back to yourself, and with hand on heart tell me it doesn't look like it was written by a schoolgirl, or is it schoolgirls.....who cares.

Phil

[bilderberger]

Well mr Phil (self appointed know-it-all) Brockwell, why don't you know what's going on here then ?
I suggest you check out the main forum ''rumours and news'' and have a look under 'fun and games at the Scottish Ambulance service''.
You are a bit of a twit methinks with your wiseass comments on things you know nothing about ! (or do you have you big fish friends in that particularly small pond ?):suspect:

[ops_slave]

Well mr Phil (self appointed know-it-all) Brockwell,
You are a bit of a twit methinks with your wiseass comments on things you know nothing about ! (or do you have you big fish friends in that particularly small pond ?):suspect:
well done there bilderberger, you must be really pleased with that post, because it doesnt sound at all like a schoolgirl as Phil suggested.

[Phil Brockwell]

Bilder,

My comments were not about the content of the post, but the manner in which it was delivered.

I still don't see any evidence of anything dangerous.

[bilderberger]

Bilder,

My comments were not about the content of the post, but the manner in which it was delivered.

I still don't see any evidence of anything dangerous.

Phil,
nor have I ! Because there isn't !

Bilder:)

[Phil Brockwell]

Bilder,

So what's your point?

Phil

[bilderberger]

Phil,have you always been a toss** or is this a fairly new thing ?

Bilder

[Phil Brockwell]

Generations of Brockwells, its a hobby and a birthright :ugh:

[bilderberger]

Relax,Phil........windup only !

Bilder

[Phil Brockwell]

Trouble is, so many people call me a toss@$ I never know when they are serious.

[bilderberger]

As a current member of staff at Gama, I feel I have to answer some of the criticisms


The CAA have just conducted their first routine audit since the start of the new ambulance contract, during which they looked at the rostering at GLA & ABZ, and raised no concerns. Incidentally, no pilots at GLA or ABZ have raised any problems with rostering through the company's internal quality system.

My,my grimsdale.............How about now,a few weeks down the line, you start eating your words....?
Raised no concerns ?
Rostering ?
Internal quality ?
No pilots at GLA or ABZ raising no concerns ?

Why don't you start listening to the crews ata GLA and ABZ instead of hogwash from elsewhere ?
B.:bored:

[unablereqnavperf]

If only these wonderfully talented business managers had not become pilots all the aviation industries problems would have been solved by now. All pilots would only work when they felt like it and for that they would be paid large sums,plus have 7 virgins at there call if they ever felt the need.

it high time these fools woke up and smelt the coffee no flying job is ever perfect,some are worse than others. However if you sign up to an air ambulance service surely you'd expect a degree of disruption as even the NHS's new supper computor can predict when people are going to be in need of a life saving flight?

ATPL's must have got a lot easier as the number of muppets coming through the systems is on the increase!

[Stan Woolley]

unablereqstandard

If the so-called managers made half an effort at rostering people properly in all these ****ty companies they wouldn't have half the problems they do!

It's not rocket science! I'm sick of apologists like you giving people a hard time about wanting the ability to plan a life outside their work.

So what if it's an ambulance operation,that should make no difference in the vast majority of situations.

If we 'muppets' operated to the same standards that many managers set and you defend, we'd all be dead! :yuk: :yuk: :mad:

[unablereqnavperf]

Have to agree with you Stan, many people that get themselves into management positions are well below standered. Our past mutual employer is a shining example of this as we both well know!

However what gets to me is the number of pilots that are prepared to sit and slagg off others with out having any clear or sensible ideas themselves. As you well know I have never been backwards about coming forward directly to the manager concerned and voicing my opinions only to look over my shoulder and see the rest of the pilots retreating.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you think you can do a better job then stand up and be counted, if you have ideas make them heard to the people that are able to make a differance instead of bitching annonomusly on this forum. I agree that we all need a bitch to get things out of our system from time to time but there are some that never post anything positive!

I'm not against pilots in any way I just get fed up of those that moan and never have the courage of their convictions!

ps. stan check your pm's

[bilderberger]

If only these wonderfully talented business managers had not become pilots all the aviation industries problems would have been solved by now. All pilots would only work when they felt like it and for that they would be paid large sums,plus have 7 virgins at there call if they ever felt the need.

it high time these fools woke up and smelt the coffee no flying job is ever perfect,some are worse than others. However if you sign up to an air ambulance service surely you'd expect a degree of disruption as even the NHS's new supper computor can predict when people are going to be in need of a life saving flight?

ATPL's must have got a lot easier as the number of muppets coming through the systems is on the increase!

Ha,Ha, Unable,

I hope you can fly better than you can spell.....! What school did you go to and what is a ''supper computor'' ....does it make the dinner ?
God your post is as hilarious regarding content as it is laughing at your spelling!
Obviously you know nothing about the Air Ambulance Service so don't even go there and I think its you who is the 'muppet' my friend.
He,He,He'
Sorry can't stop laughing.
B.

[bilderberger]

unablereqstandard

If the so-called managers made half an effort at rostering people properly in all these ****ty companies they wouldn't have half the problems they do!

It's not rocket science! I'm sick of apologists like you giving people a hard time about wanting the ability to plan a life outside their work.

So what if it's an ambulance operation,that should make no difference in the vast majority of situations.

If we 'muppets' operated to the same standards that many managers set and you defend, we'd all be dead! :yuk: :yuk: :mad:

STAN,
Very well put by the way !!!

[bilderberger]

See.......''rumours and news'' forum !:suspect:

[long final]

Any further news from Glasgow?

[Dai Rear]

It was me who said that Gama was frightening and dangerous.
It was me who read on this post, from other people, what a wonderful place Gama is.
There must be 2 Gamas in Scotland.
The Glasgow operation started on 1st April. This is now 7½ months later.
When new people started at the Scottish bases, did they receive a H&S induction course?
When new people started at the Scottish bases, did they receive a copy of maintenance procedures? No need - everybody knows - crystal ball supplied at the front door!
What manitenance procedures are there for the King Air? Yes, I'm asking, what maintenance procedures are there at all for the King Air? Do they take into account the individuality of the GLA and ABZ bases?
Has Gama amended the CAMMOE to show GLA and ABZ?
Is 7½ months not enough time for our outstanding management to generate these procedures ?
There are 3 engineers at ABZ and zero at GLA. Who carries out unscheduled manitenance at GLA? Who signs off the Tech Log? Pardon? Are you sure? Are you absolutely sure?
Who carries out the daily fuel check, and tops up the O2 and N2? What authorised calibrated tools are used? Is THAT recorded on the Tech Log? Ditto.
Who adds oil to the engines? Pardon? The flight crew? Is that legal? Are you sure? Have the flight crew been issued with company authorisations to do so? Is the oil recorded on the Tech Log? Ditto.
The MD - MK in Far generates the monthly rosters. How much notice does he give the crews of the new rostas as each month ends? Does he do it 2 weeks in advance, 2 days in advance or 2 minutes in advance? How easy is it to get him to return your contact mesages? What is his reaction when you complain? Why are all the GLA crews leaving?
Crews are pressurised by management into working their rest days. Ask any of them. Ask MK and SW in Far how they reacted when the sheep rebelled. Nice place to work is it?
The GLA base has no hangar - BK parked on the apron. After 7½ months and now into November, what arrangement has management made for de-icing? Is there a contract in place?
4th Sept entry from Lobanski - I'm "Another moron talking out of place....." Another Moron?
One of us is. How much experience of morons does Lobanski have and how did he get it?
8th Sept entry from Grimsdale about the CAA audit - that makes everything OK and what I've just said must be absolute tosh!
Can't hear you Lobanski and Grimsdale - you've gone very quiet! Go on - belittle me - I dare you.

[LegsUpLucy]

Enough Negativity please,does anyone have an honest opinion of what its like to work with GAMA on the fleets at farnborough,particuarly th BBj operation??
Thank you.

[Dai Rear]

Having already been accused of being a Moron, I am now accused of negativity!
I really must apologise to legsupLucy! Obviously I am confusing negativity with warning my professional colleagues of a frightening and dangerous situation and company.
As I obviously have difficulty in grasping fundamentals, I confess that I am struggling with Legsuplucy's question about what it's like to work for this company! One of us is missing something!
I'd like to say - read between the lines!
Instead please permit be to be slightly more blunt - simply read back! Carry out a statistical analysis of how many people say Gama is a great place to work, and compare that against how many people say the opposite! How many people are leaving? Pardon? All of them? :eek:
How would you like to fly a Beech King in Scotland that has received very dubious, illegal and unrecorded manitenance, that is parked in the open as we come into winter, and that does not receive proper, recorded de-icing, particlarly on it's high tail plane, as there are no trestles, platforms, bone-fide contracts, maintenance procedures or trained personnell.
LegsUpLucy - I capitluate! They're a great crowd to work for:D. Get your CV in quick - they're recruiting right now!:ok:

[LegsUpLucy]

Alright,keep your hair on,jesus...............

If you are at Gama,i really hope i dont come across you because i've had my fill of people like you in the airlines for the last 10years.
Very informative.

[lobanski]

It was me who said that Gama was frightening and dangerous.
It was me who read on this post, from other people, what a wonderful place Gama is.
There must be 2 Gamas in Scotland.
The Glasgow operation started on 1st April. This is now 7½ months later.
When new people started at the Scottish bases, did they receive a H&S induction course?
When new people started at the Scottish bases, did they receive a copy of maintenance procedures? No need - everybody knows - crystal ball supplied at the front door!
What manitenance procedures are there for the King Air? Yes, I'm asking, what maintenance procedures are there at all for the King Air? Do they take into account the individuality of the GLA and ABZ bases?
Has Gama amended the CAMMOE to show GLA and ABZ?
Is 7½ months not enough time for our outstanding management to generate these procedures ?
There are 3 engineers at ABZ and zero at GLA. Who carries out unscheduled manitenance at GLA? Who signs off the Tech Log? Pardon? Are you sure? Are you absolutely sure?
Who carries out the daily fuel check, and tops up the O2 and N2? What authorised calibrated tools are used? Is THAT recorded on the Tech Log? Ditto.
Who adds oil to the engines? Pardon? The flight crew? Is that legal? Are you sure? Have the flight crew been issued with company authorisations to do so? Is the oil recorded on the Tech Log? Ditto.
The MD - MK in Far generates the monthly rosters. How much notice does he give the crews of the new rostas as each month ends? Does he do it 2 weeks in advance, 2 days in advance or 2 minutes in advance? How easy is it to get him to return your contact mesages? What is his reaction when you complain? Why are all the GLA crews leaving?
Crews are pressurised by management into working their rest days. Ask any of them. Ask MK and SW in Far how they reacted when the sheep rebelled. Nice place to work is it?
The GLA base has no hangar - BK parked on the apron. After 7½ months and now into November, what arrangement has management made for de-icing? Is there a contract in place?
4th Sept entry from Lobanski - I'm "Another moron talking out of place....." Another Moron?
One of us is. How much experience of morons does Lobanski have and how did he get it?
8th Sept entry from Grimsdale about the CAA audit - that makes everything OK and what I've just said must be absolute tosh!
Can't hear you Lobanski and Grimsdale - you've gone very quiet! Go on - belittle me - I dare you.

Dai rear, it really saddens me that you find it necessary to try and provoke me. I can't be bothered to lower myself to your rather pathetic and negative level.
What i will say is this, as an employee of Gama i feel a sense of loyalty that is well placed. A good company that rewards its employees. It's all about attitudes and a pro-active approach.
Maybe you should try being a little more pro-active.
Hopefully you can now move forward and try to be a little more positive in your life.

[Dai Rear]

I am grateful to CJBOy’s and his astute comments. He is quite correct, and that is what I did - I moved on after not liking what I saw.
Please permit me to try to end on a slightly more positive note. A lot of complaints have been voiced here about management. Before we can assess this, we have to define what management is. What do you manage? How do you manage?
I believe that management is the ability to plan activities in a logical and efficient manner, within the proper and defined parameters of the given process. A good manager will also be able to have a Plan B – still within these rules – if Plan A does not come to fruition. Furthermore, you have to manage people – who are all unique and who will be motivated by different means! That is what I believe management is throughout any sphere of industry.
If that definition is correct, then I saw very little evidence of management of any kind at Gama. I did see 2 privileged control freaks who owned the company – and who had their favourites – but I didn’t see management. An owner/director/business partner of a company is not necessarily a manager, let alone a good one.
Gama had a very good reputation for running one-off or a limited service executive business flights from Farnborough. Much of that reputation is deservedly so. For those who worked there and who did well – well done.
Up until now, Gama had no experience of running a scheduled service, from stations – one 400 miles away and the other 560 miles away. Out of sight is out of mind. It’s a different ball game – and Gama have no good management. It shows!
I’m not naïve. I know that the powers that be will be reading this. So will the Scottish Office! Stand well back and watch the control freaks hit the panic button! The issue of the Scottish Air Ambulance Service and it patients goes beyond bad management and disgruntled employees. The Scottish people deserve better and they ain’t getting it from Gama. The aviation industry is a wonderful livelihood and if Gama cannot deliver they should stand aside. Similarly, employees should move on because there are a lot of good aviation company's out there who do treat their employees and their customers well.
Please permit me one final point . . .
As you read back throughout this excellent and valuable internet forum, not many people have the distinction of having their whole piece cut and pasted in a tantrum – I’ve achieved that without trying, bad manners, name-calling or abuse! All I did was state irrefutable facts! I didn’t mean to upset anyone and if I have – I’m delighted! Nil illegitimi carborundi!

[checklist69]

Dai Rear, your name says it all.

:yuk:

Get a life.

'69

[Ralphtidy]

[quote=Dai Rear;2959709]Up until now, Gama had no experience of running a scheduled service, from stations – one 400 miles away and the other 560 miles away. Out of sight is out of mind. It’s a different ball game – and Gama have no good management. It shows!
I’m not naïve.quote]

Dai Rear,
It seems you are big on definitions, so I would like to enlighten you:

Scheduled service: an air service operated on a regular basis by a carrier in accordance with a published timetable or with flights so regular or frequent that they constitute a recognisably systemic series.

Why don't you go to the library and brush up on your ignorance?
I'm in the 69 club!

[Dai Rear]

. . . with flights so regular or frequent that they constitute a recognisably systemic series.
:) That is what is actually happening!:ooh:

[unablereqnavperf]

Dai rear,
You obviously havn't been screwed around by experts try working for a low cost airline!

By the way management is there to make a business profitable not there to make unhappy people like you happy!

Try finding some happiness in your life and then go back into aviation with your rose coloured glasses removed. Aviation like any other business is there for profit if you can make money and have happy staff your doing very well indeed!

[Dai Rear]

Everything that Unablereqnavperf (entry ~61) has said is correct and difficult to disagree with.
But the issues go further. When management are good at their job, the workforce is usually content and motivated. (William Ouchi – Theory Z). Most of us know many good aviation companies out there with efficient, profitable, happy and content workforces. In this particular case, and with the company in question – little of that applies at the base and none of it applies at the stations. At a public meeting in Kirkwall in April 2006, the MD of Gama (MK) stated from the platform that “Gama would provide an even better service.” They won the tender from the Scottish Parliament on that basis. So far, the irrefutable evidence has been to the contrary. Let MK come back and say that now. Gama has had to go back to the Scottish Office asking for more tax-payers money because they cannot get their sums right. So much for management being there to run the business profitably. Gama won the tender from another Scottish company who had run the service happily, profitably and efficiently for 35 years, with largely, a dedicated and consistent and committed workforce.
We all wish to work in aviation because we have a love for the industry. Many people in the industry frequently work on in their own time to get the job done. Not much evidence of that at Gama. In this day and age, it is not unreasonable for decent people to expect decent management.
:rolleyes: One point where I do disagree with Unablereqnavperf (entry ~61) on. Although I haven't worked for a low cost airline, I have been shat on by experts – so this crowd have got no chance! :D

[bilderberger]

''Aviation like any other business is there for profit if you can make money and have happy staff your doing very well indeed!''

Unable,who the flippin 'eck are you and which planet did you arrive from ?

''Happy staff''...........you've got to be taking the pi++ surely !

They aren't a HAPPY lot in GAMMA .from 75% or so of the pilots(the rest just put up with it 'cos they are a bunch of ass -likking, brownie- points brigade) to all of the ops staff in F'boro WHO ARE SICK OF THE WAY THEY ARE BEING TREATED!

I agree with Dai's last statement wholeheartedly ! A miserable so called management lot .I understand 5 out of the 7 pilots at Gla now working their notice.

B. (enuf said)

[srs what?]

Up until now, Gama had no experience of running a scheduled service, from stations – one 400 miles away and the other 560 miles away.

Except the twice daily scheduled service they ran to Humberside for many years. :rolleyes:

For someone that used to work there you're not very clued up.

[Flintstone]

At the risk of poking my nose in where it's not wanted this thread seems to be getting rather personal.

Is the name calling absolutely necessary?

[air/49]

The past few comments i tottally endorse, Dai rear get a life, you are a very bitter person, it may be a result of your present work colleages being very negative!!!!!!!! Life is full of experiences, gama went though a steep learning curve like every new venue, it has to be given a chance.

[Dai Rear]

When people have to resort to name calling, with nothing else tangible to refute you with, then you know that you are saying the right thing! You must excuse those who do so – attack is their desperate means of defence!
I accept the point that SRS What has made (entry #64) and I may stand partially corrected.
If the daily service to HUY was a turnaround then my point is still correct. If the company had their own station there then obviously I must stand fully corrected on that specific minor point only.
SRS What – please excuse me for things in the company that I did not know about before my time. However there are things that I know about the company that you do not, and I assert that everything else that I have said so far bears up to scrutiny! Please read on . . . .!
Let’s recap . . . .
There is management who are unable to run the service that they tendered for, at the cost the tendered, with the promises they offered, and who require baled out with more public money.
There is a discontented workforce throughout, and at the stations there is a process of a mass evacuation.
There is an absence of formal contracts with ground support companies who supply vital services – what little that does take place is supplied on a goodwill basis from friends on the airport who get a £20 pay-off straight into their pockets without it going through the books. How generous! Good management?
Aircraft defects/repairs/maintenance are frequently not listed/closed off on the Tech Log.
Defects beyond the MEL are often listed as ADDs. ADDs often go beyond their repair dates.
There is an absence of legal maintenance procedures for the stations. Good management?
Now in the middle of November, there is no de-icing contract/facilities for the Beech King at Glasgow.
The above all compromise the safety of the aircraft, the crew, and the passengers/patients.
We have contributors on this site who have to resort to name-calling! Shocking! You can tell that I'm really affected!
I won’t mention what management did to the Scottish flight crew’s arranged and booked leave (at very short notice) during summer 2006. You can guess!
I won’t mention what they did to the Glasgow ground engineer and why he left!
I wont mention what they did to the Aberdeen engineer and why he’s leaving!
I won’t mention what happened to the Scottish flight crew when they complained about being regularly pressurised into working their rest days and off-duty.
I won’t mention that there was almost fisticuffs in the crew room when the incoming flight crew discovered that the previous flight crew had not recorded an intermittent flap defect into the Tech Log – because on the return flight the fault wasn’t there so must have rectified itself! Wonderful! I’ve heard everything now!
I won’t mention how the same pilot flattened the aircraft battery then stitched up the engineer.
AND IN THE WORDS OF FRANK CARSON – THERE’S MORE!
Not bad for ‘another moron talking out of place . . . believe it’s slander’’ (entry # 12)
The above is not my definition of good management carrying out their key tasks. Sadly, from reading the earlier entries on this thread, there is a small number who think that the above is all OK, should be defended at all costs, are there to run a business, and that it is a great place to work!

[air/49]

Thank you dai rear for your comments, it has now shown you in your true light, if all your statements had even a glimmer of truth the CAA would have jumped on GAMA when the FTL buissness was under discussion. Like every company on this planet it has its faults, but you work around them. At the end of the day GAMA serve the remote areas of scotland, and give the general public a life line, the feedback from these areas is very good. I would trust there comments before a bitter person with a chip on there shoulder. what would happen to CHC abz on this forum, another slating!!!!!!!!!

[Dai Rear]

I'm on a roll right now and so your offer to investiagte another company is most welcome! You never know who I might know in there too! It's a small world in aviation and so people/companies who dump on other people - it inevitably comes back and bites them.
Today is the 10th anniversary of the worst case of E coli in the UK. When the tender went out, the SAS favoured a dedicated Beech King over the Islander to lessen the risk of cross infection.
When were the the Beech Kings last deep cleaned?

[bilderberger]

Dai,words of wisdom I think !
Another pilot confirmed his intentions to leave this week from the unfortunate Glasgow base !
I'm sure the SAS must now be sitting up and taking note !
Thats 90% of the Glasgow pilots leaving since the base was opened in March !
Negotiation was aparently attempted with the ''management'' but they have decided to let all their pilots go rather than come up with any solutions to their issues of which there are many.
This is all down to Gamma being a greedy company,totally without the skills necessary to run what should have been an efficient and happy base.
Now you have cleaners employed at the base who are earning the same as the first officers !
As far as the CAA audit goes well there are many questions to be brought to light and there is going to be a certain amount of you know what going to hit Gamma's particular fan.
Good luck to all you guys in getting proper jobs from this particular pprune reader and I suppose if nothing else,all the whistle blowing that will eventually be heard should at least serve to discourage any other unfortunates from joining this tragic outfit !

B:(

[unablereqnavperf]

Bilderberger, perhaps you should take up doing what your handle suggests, and go and flip burgers at McDonalds!

People like you give aviation a bad name,an attitude like yours will not get you very far in what is a very small industry!

[bilderberger]

Bilderberger, perhaps you should take up doing what your handle suggests, and go and flip burgers at McDonalds!

People like you give aviation a bad name,an attitude like yours will not get you very far in what is a very small industry!


'Unable', Thankfully I'm connected but not 'in' the industry as you say.
Now, anyone for Frenchfries ?

Pass the salt,
B. :8

[Dai Rear]

Police in Ipswich have arrested Steve Wright for the murder of 5 prostitutes.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/suffolkmurders/story/0,,1976652,00.html

[Sherry Bobbins]

Police in Ipswich have arrested Steve Wright for the murder of 5 prostitutes.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/suffolkmurders/story/0,,1976652,00.html

Dai Rear,

Do you have to work hard at being such a prat, or does it come naturally?

Taken from your source (emphasis is mine)

Last night detectives in Ipswich continued to question Steve Wright, 48, a forklift truck driver

[4HolerPoler]

Dai Rear, clearly a seriously disgruntled previous GAMA employee has clearly overstepped the bounds of common morality and I have jammed a large obstruction in his cake-hole for the next few months. Hopefully by the time this restriction wears off some of his bitterness will have worn off.

Anonymous forums are fine but anonymous sniping and clear vindictive attacks, bordering on the ludicrous are not tolerated here.

4HP

[bilderberger]

Police in Ipswich have arrested Steve Wright for the murder of 5 prostitutes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/suffolkmurders/story/0,,1976652,00.html

Dear 4 holer poler.,...........Can't understand your comments........Maybe you'd like to explain to all the readers !!

The above is a mere quotation from Dai of recent events so why should you suddenly start your unfortunate rantings ?

As a MODERATOR you should be fair or more to the point is it nasty little Gamma up to their tricks again ? WHO'S FRIEND IN GAMMA ARE YOU THEN THAT YOUR CAGE HAS BEEN SO RATTLED BY A MERE QUOTATION.

What an outfit !!...I believe most of their pilots will be moving out soon and where will that leave their new ambulance service ? Some of the tales coming out of there beggar belief !

I bet Loganair would not have made such an a**e of things !!!

B.:(

Hit a nerve, did I? What does a murder in Ipswich have to do with a thread on GAMA? I have no affiliation with GAMA but do have a common-sense compassion to them for some of their clearly off-the-rails previous employees. 4HP

[bilderberger]

CJBoy and Mr 4 pot, at least these posts may serve to warn any prospective employees and make them think very carefully about joining this organisation ! The way employees are treated at present (not disgruntled ex as we've heard plenty of that) is a disgrace and I applaud Mr. Dai for speaking out !

B.

[unablereqnavperf]

Bilderberger, when are you and your mate with stomach problems going to go away? Your childish rants on here are getting very tiresome. Gama has many pilots that have been there for over 15 years and is a happy company down south.Air ambulance flying requires a tougher breed of pilot and you are just a moaning little jelly fish,face facts your a spineless weesle who couldn't make the grade now go try fliping burgers and take your incontinant mate with you!

[bilderberger]

Bilderberger, perhaps you should take up doing what your handle suggests, and go and flip burgers at McDonalds!

People like you give aviation a bad name,an attitude like yours will not get you very far in what is a very small industry!

From recent events it seems that Gamma are about to go into an uncontrollable spiral of unhappy/disgruntled/resigning staff ! This is not rumour it is fact.................!
Of the 7 pilots who were employed last March for the wonderful new improved Scottish Ambulance Service at Glasgow,only ONE now remains who is not working his notice !(he is only doing this because he hasn't secured another position yet) 3 already gone,3 working notice.
This sad situation has arisen for one reason only......the complete and utter arrogance of one management individual and his grim determination not to listen to the requests from and to communicate with,his pilots at Glasgow and Aberdeen.
This company has driven a coach and horses through the FTL scheme,exploiting with great skill and dexterity,each dark corner and 'grey' area therin.When asked on several occasions why they are manipulating the system to such an extent,the answer was always that 'no one has said we can't !( Proudly boasting their achievements in the process)
Well,Gamma are now reaping the benefits of their dismal attempts at constructing their own rules and regulations with the phenomena of a Flight Ops Inspector who strangely sanctions the whole thing (contrary to the Flght time limitations )!!Nobody wants to work there ! Pilots are voting with their feet. Another indication of this company's bizarre and greedy antics is (as was proven by several individuals at Abz base) the fact that Gamma are bonding their pilots for a sum which is more than TWICE what it costs for type training ! That just about says it all..
Call the above expression 'moaning and groaning' if you like but the whole episode has caused major disruption in the lives of those who joined this company in the belief of what they were told at their interview !!!




Scottish Ambulance Service please take note of this situation!!!

B.

[Silverspoonaviator]

I have received 3 CV from pilots down south.

They are being messed about and terms and conditions changed without warning, or agreement.

SilverS

[unimuts]

Silverspoonaviator They are being messed about and terms and conditions changed without warning, or agreement

AND ?

Nothing different from the way I and many others have been treated by second rate charter companies. It happens and still does, the only way you can stop this as a crew member is to vote with your feet.

When there are no crew members left, then, and only then, will the effect be felt by the scottish ambulance service. Until then I doubt they care.

uni

[Miles Magister]

Bilderberger and others,

Whilst I know nothing of GAMA or the operation up north I feel able to offer a couple of comments on point of fact if you are all to have a reasoned discussion.

The first is on you comments about FTLs. The flight ops inspectors rarley sanction what companies do as has been suggested above. They are normally very proessional about policing what companies do against the approved OPs Manual. The FTL scheme is submitted to the OPs Inspector who then passes it to the CAA SRG FTL department, who are independent of the ops inspectors, for approval. It is the FTL department who say yes or no and the ops inspector just checks that operations are being completed in accordance with the company scheme. The company scheme does not have to be in accordance with CAP 371 which is only advisory so you should not use CAP 371 to comment on.

The second point is about bonding, which I have mixed felleings about. The personnel professionals have a rule of thumb which suggests that it costs a company about 1.5 times the offered salary to recruit an employee. If you add the cost of the training courses and admin support to this you can see that turn over of staff is alot more expensive than just the type rating course.

Just to balance the discussion. I have just been talking to someone who is not being paid during training, is being paid half salary during line training and being bonded for their line training!

MM

[Silverspoonaviator]

All I am saying is that it is not just a north problem......there is no north south divide....

SlvS

[LRdriver II]

"Yearly re-bond"...feckwits. both the idiot managment and the numpty pilots who keep signing that crap

[boostsnare]

Hi there,

My company abroad is seeking for Hawker Captains, if interested pm please, really good atmosphere.

Thank you.

Happy new year.:ok:

[bilderberger]

I don't think some of you complainers out there realise just how good your management is. In a move that could only be described as "genius level" the management recently awarded a few of the ABZ crews a christmas bonus. Hopefully this will encourage the others to work harder in 2007 so they may too also be entitled to a bonus next year (to help pay off their yearly re-bond.)
This truly is top drawer management and should thoroughly boost morale.:ugh:

DUIR,
Thats one of the best laughs I've had this year.........................B.:p

[FMSgreen]

I’ve been here since last March and its definitely deteriorating. The last reason for staying, the flying, seems to be in decline. Hours for the last few months are well down (due in part to budget issues) with no decent long distance trips for ages. Couple this to our current terms and conditions and it just isn’t worth staying.

With my LPC coming up in about 3 months I now have to decide weather to put my notice in now, to avoid a re-bond (just under £3K), or commit for another 9 months hoping it gets better.

These re-bonds last for your first 3 years with Gama, yet you don’t know what your salary will be for the next 3 years or when you’ll be included in the now famous yearly bonus list. (both at the discretion of the (mis)management). All the commitment, respect and flexibility goes one way.

Last summer the roster never seemed to change, now the phone rings every week with yet more changes. The revolving door has started spinning with as many leaving as there is joining, therefore endless line training and demands for flexibility for the guys already here.

Whilst recruiting seems to be strong elsewhere why stay for the lowest turboprop salary, least holiday, maximum duty, least rest, least amount of flying ?

[bilderberger]

Hi there,

My company abroad is seeking for Hawker Captains, if interested pm please, really good atmosphere.

Thank you.

Happy new year.:ok:

Well it would be on SATURN as that's where you say you're from YOU NUMPTEE !!!

:=

[S205-18F]

It is a pity GAMA dont realise what good pilots they have! I have had the privilege of flying with these guys and a more professional bunch you couldnt hope to meet, very helpful, efficient and under the current climate cheerful. Gama negotiated the contract with the Scottish Ambulance Service and got it wrong so why punish the troops who are trying to make it work.

[SA120]

I think that this thread is very sad, I had the pleasure to fly with Gama at ABZ and thought all of the guys there were fantastic, friendly and very proffessional. They make a great job of the important job they do.

I see the problem for Gama and their management team, they are trying to establish a similar team at GLA like the established team at ABZ, this will only take time.
I am sure the management team are experienced and know this.
What seems to me is occuring is one or two bad apples turning the whole bunch bad. This is very damaging for any company and I feel the company are only trying to obtain keen and dedicated, loyal staff to boost the company and the morale within.
All pilots seem to promise the earth at the interview whilst they require and need the job, and once they have consumed the training they are then suddenly believe they are worth there weight in gold and forget themselves. Of course they are only using the company as a stepping stone in order to move onwards and upwards. But maybe they should be grateful for the time they are with their employer and the experience in that role that they gain.

The job is damanding but very rewarding, all medical flights and King Air pilots operating in all weathers, winds and conditions and types of airports from large to small with good and bad navigation aids, runways etc is very difficult together with flying short notice on a "go now" emergency situations day and night makes this job tough.

If you have done this job for a reasonable period then your skills will be higher than most other pilots and of course will help with the application of your next job especially if a good reference is obtained.

I am not sure but if an individual paid for there entire training themselves and put themselves in a position to work from day one thus earning the company money with no cost to them then maybe they would not be bonded. A bond is to allow time for the company to recover the investment they have made in an individual and some gain.
Common in all Investors. A pilot is a cost and an investment and companies need a return on such or they would not be there in the first place. I know this company and simply do not belive that they job and all of the hardships of life and time commitment that come with this job would not have been explained in full. :ugh:

:rolleyes:

[SA120]

Where are my coments

[Ambulance 'Charlie Alpha']

This job was done extremely well for thirty plus years by Loganair. ABZ had a well established GAMA base for the transplant and longer flights and for when every other BN2 and heli was operational or grounded due weather. The system worked very well,the jobs got done and almost without fail, the BN2s got into the grass strips, beaches, short runways etc, all around Scotland, all year round! Even an outsider could see that going purely Kingair and heli was never going to adequately serve the Highlands and Islands. That's why the Island locals protested so much at the time. But hey, atleast the aeroplanes look nice for press releases and photo shoots.:ugh:
No offence to the current GAMA crews, I know you work bloody hard doing a similar job, but the BN2 would go even when you didn't or couldn't, to places you could never dream of getting into.
I really feel for you all in the current climate, and speak to some of you regularly in GLA. You don't have to stay in GAMA to fly in all weather to small strips. Apply to Loganair. Fly a reasonably sized, complex turbo-prop in all weathers, to small and big airports and strips around the highlands and Islands. Get paid much, much more, have a much more stable roster fully complying with FTLs, get a Christmas bonus and work with some of the friendliest and most enjoyable crews (Including ops, engineering and other ground staff) I've ever had the pleasure to work with. Oh, we don't re-bond for LPCs and it's still quite satisfying too. Many of the routes are life-line services. They rely on you to operate all year round.
I hope the Scottish Ambulance Service do see this thread or atleast hear about it and realise what a hash has been made of this service. Although, saying that, they didn't listen to the thousands of voices with concerns and objections when the contract changed over. The Kingair and heli's are good at what they do. The BN2 was old and noisey. But it was much, much better for the job. Not just a personal opinion, an outright fact.
Taking cover. Shields to max.
ACA

[air/49]

There are presently 4 pilots working there notice at GLA and ABZ , most of which are half way through, there are NO pilots in trianing the maths must work for them selves. The ambulance service have made enquiries about the strecther kit prevoiusly installed in the islander and held in stoage at ABZ/GLA. Is gama getting ready to sell the contract? It would get rid of the thorn in there side, as they did have a good reputation before this.The stress of all the hassle is having a negative effect on the new pilots as cases of B.O are becomming more frequent.

[FMSgreen]

I thought it was 5 working notice (3 Glasgow, 2 Aberdeen). 1 more maybe in the pipeline if they pass their sim ride thats coming up. That makes 8 confirmed leaving in less than 1 year out of 17 pilots. That many people can't be wrong. This is starting to dilute the core of experience that has been built up in the last year.

People start leaving in as little as 4 weeks time and with no new starts on board yet I wouldn't bet against plenty of long shifts in ABZ/trips down the road to GLA for days/weeks away from home. Chances of getting leave over the next few months? .Remember there is no extra pay/benefits for working longer shifts or working away from home for weeks at a time.

Its not surprising even some of the long term members of staff are finding it increasingly difficult to knock back direct approaches from Logan/City Star/Flightline/Eastern/bmi etc. that are offering more flying in less duty time for more money and more time off.

Its not nice to air our dirty linen in public but even recent direct approaches to the top by senior long term captains have been dissmissed out of hand. Unless something changes rapidly the customer (SAS) will lose confidence in this company.

[air/49]

I stand corrected , it maybe even more than you thought. As regards postioning people from ABZ to GLA there is no slack left in system, thats why last week there was no night shift captin as there was not even a london captin avialable. Whats going to happen now when i believe TAG at farnborough are hiring at £10k more, esspeccailly when your rostered days on are not flown and that is now your day off!!!!!! SAS MOST KNOW WHATS GOING ON. Is that why they want the islander kit back? They will know when there is no avialabilty in a few weeks.

[gibr monkey]

quick question ?

Is really 3 months notice for leaving this operator usual ?? It seems very long time , is this another way to keep pilots.

[unablereqnavperf]

Standerd in all UK airline contracts these days.

[coupled left]

This is supposed to be a professional pilot forum and what is amazing is the standard of professionalism (or lack of) displayed across these pages. I find it astonishing that people who quite clearly work with each other, pass comment about each other, their job and management on an open public forum. There is a lot of incorrect and misleading information on these threads and what I would like to say is that it saddens me that I am actually working with these people.
The role we do in essence is very good with a lot of varied and challenging flying, it is not for everyone, but surely there has to be a bit of give and take.
Good luck to Gama for the remainder of the 7 yr contract and best wishes to those who are moving on to pastures new!! :O

[drag king]

Hello gents!

I am new here and hope I did it right by searching older posts instead of just starting a new topic...!

I carefully read through this thread and understood there are different opinions on GAMA. I would like to hear from some of those who have fresh news on this operator since I would like to apply for a position as soon as my paperwork has been issued. Low-Timer (BLW 1000TT) but still curious about their contracts in Scotland.

Anyone available?

Regards

DK

[bilderberger]

DragKing

Gama is simple. Two sides too it.
1) Probably in top 3 corporate operators in uk (if not europe). I think now over 30 private jets across the whole fleet ranging from Lear 45's through to BBJ's, G5's, etc. Over 100 pilots full time & freelance employed by them. It really doesn't get any better in the corporate, biz jet, GA community. New jets coming all the time & cannot crew them with "experienced" pilot's.
Also a lot of perks that come with the job, say over & above other "rivals".

2) Scottish Operation ....2 brand new BE 200 kingair's ( 1 based ABZ, 1 based GLA). These aircraft are Pro line 21 avioinics fit, fantastic to fly & you really won't see anything better until u get on a 777. (No need to tune a radio frequency let alone an ILS, all done automatically). It makes an airbus look ancient.
The sottish is simply great flying in some serious conditions, on a great aircraft.
Now the bad news, pay is poor, huge bond, long standby hours & low flying hours (about 300 hrs per year). Roster is well..... to say the least dubious, but what the hell!!
All in all I would say if you have got 1000 hrs try somewhere else or even their jets, but the scottish with your experience should be your last resort (depending on what you want of course!!!)

[unablereqnavperf]

bilderberger, you amaze me, at last an accurate post from you!!

Your right the scottish operation may not suit every one's taste,the money is not the best and for those looking to build hours and move on to an airline job flying from ILS to ILS don't waste your time. however if you live in scotland and want to do a job that is gretaly rewarding combined with some of the most challenging and fun flying you can get then the Scotish Air Ambulance is a great job.

Long hours of standby are par for the course in the saving lives business(thank god)and if your based in Glasgow I believe you can do your standby at home ie lots of time off!

As for the shinny jets in the south most of the clients require a minimum of 1500hrs TT, because as Bilderberger says, Gama is one of the top 3 corperate operators and therefore their client's demand experience.

ps. no trouble recruiting experienced pilots down south they have several high time airline guys awaiting positions at the moment! However type rated with significant experience on type are always welcomed.

[bilderberger]

Unablereqnavperf

An accurate post from me.....I am not even rising to that one, however, it does appear we may be singing from the same sheet!!

I am not saying Gama just got good overnight, the issues that reared their ugly heads last year with regards the scottish operation ,as far as I'm concerned were/are all valid & I standby by that,I hear things have changed for the better, I don't know, several guys moved on since then,but lets not beat around the bush hear, if I was a Biz jet jockey, Gama would probably be top of my list along with TAG!!
(Yes that is a compliment!!)

[HurryUp&Retire]

Does any one have any information about the moscow base. I went through the thread but did not find any info

what do they fly there?
is the crew home based, or do they actually live in moscow?
what is the salary like?
what is the schedule like?
is it an easy base to get?
how stable is the base?
do they give you some sort of a package for living there?

any other info about the city will be great

thanks in advance

[unablereqnavperf]

Hurryup&Retire,
Moscow is not a base as such there are several aircraft based there G4's G5's and BBJ,crews are all in hotac and work various roster patterns.Month on month off 28 on 10 off and some other combiations which I'm not sure of, salaries are dependant on the time on/off ratio. If your rated on one of the above types you stand a good chance of getting a slot out there.

[HurryUp&Retire]

unablereqnavperf (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=84603),

so since Moscow is not a base where you live, does the company buy you a ticket to and from Moscow (and would you have to live at another base that Gama does have?)

[unablereqnavperf]

The company pays to position you to where ever the aircraft is, at the crew change over, you are considered to be farnborough based.

pm. me if you want more!

[Sparky01]

The problems are more like minor niggles. A great team to work with/for. I would sign up again, and dont plan to move. Excellent training. Fantastic job satisfaction. Pay and roster are the downside compared with other operators. But, the job and the fantastic aircraft make it
do-able.

[pimpsqueak]

Looking at the majority of this thread it tends to be about the scottish operation and the moans involving that side of the Gama business.

I am more interested in the Biz jet side (and there doesn't seem to be too much on these threads about that, which can only be a good thing). I know Gama have got some serious kit & run around some pretty serious people, But JUST How good are they???
What are they like to work for ? Can you seriously put GAMA, TAG & LEA above Netjets....surely not!!
Can you even put Gama above TAG & LEA??

Bilderburger ....What did you mean when you said other "perks" that are not on offer with other rivals??

[Flintstone]

Can you seriously put GAMA, TAG & LEA above Netjets....surely not!!

Quite easily actually.

[merlinxx]

Good call Flintstone:D


No I'm not employed by GAMA

[pimpsqueak]

Can you seriously put GAMA, TAG & LEA above Netjets....surely not!!

Quote:Quite easily actually.

YES, WHY IS THAT THEN FLINTSTONE?

Anybody can come here and say something is better but your not showing anyone it's better!!

[H.Finn]

Never worked for GAMA, TAG or LEA, but I know people who have and do. Did my time with Netjets Transportes Aereos.
I assume GAMA, TAG and LEA are all in the same league of reputable corporate jet operators as is the company I work with now. If I had the choice of joining Ryanair (or some other LoCo airline) or NetJets Transportes Aereos (also called Netjets Europe), I would probably choose NJTA. But with a proper corporate jet operator, there is no comparision. TAG etc any day over NJTA.

Flintstone, I leave it for you to explain further. Or Smeagel....

[Smeagel]

I'll let Flintstone do it. I can't be arsed these days.

[CL300]

I did write a reply then erased it.... Woaw, what a good therapy !

[Flintstone]

:mad:Can you seriously put GAMA, TAG & LEA above Netjets....surely not!!
Quite easily actually.
YES, WHY IS THAT THEN FLINTSTONE?
Anybody can come here and say something is better but your not showing anyone it's better!!

Well seeing as you asked so politely pimpsqueak I'll tell you (Phil and Barry's CRM courses are good but it seems even THEY can't train everyone, eh?).

Only with Netjets are you required to report for duty at your gateway (airport), fly as a passenger on a commercial airline to a point where you meet your fellow crew and collect the aircraft, often several hours later, and not be allowed to count all of that travel time as duty. Likewise travelling home at the end of a tour.

Only at Netjets have I had the terms and conditions of my contract changed to my detriment without my agreement or even consultation.

Only Netjets employ crew without telling them which aircraft they will be flying until the indoc course by which time they are committed having resigned from their last job.

Only Netjets insist on all crew joining in the right seat regardless of experience (unless of course you are a returning ex-employee who is in favour though those are few and far between).

My current employers have never asked me to carry a defect to a maintenance base. In fact quite the opposite.

With my current employer I am treated with respect and as a professional.

I am not micro-managed. I do not have to fiddle with a Blackberry throughout the day.

I am not referred to in derogatory terms by fbo's/handling agents ie, as working for 'Tipp-Ex Airways'.

My plans do not change by the hour as some knee-jerk reaction to a delay or malfunction elsewhere.

My colleagues in Ops, Admin and other ground departments do not work in a climate of fear and this is reflected in their own professionalism. They are encouraged to use their initiative rather than adhere to whimsical diktats.

My colleagues in Ground/Ops receive adequate training during which they are not told "All pilots are idiots" (they are left to figure this out for themselves).

The decision to go flying is mine as pilot in command, not someone sitting in front of a desk half a continent away.

I do not have to make a phone call or send an email to ask permission. When I decide it is safe and legal to aviate we do so.

My colleagues and I plan our own roster.

I often know in advance where I will be going. If to a long haul destination my family can join me.

I often have days to relax at our destination rather than rushing off after minimum rest.

My leave requests do not have to be submitted six months in advance only to be refused the month before I believed I was going on holiday.

I earn more money.

I have a non-contributory pension.

I do not feel aggrieved that some of my colleagues living in other countries face paying double tax.

Should I ever fall into dispute with my current employers the matter would be dealt with in accordance with UK law and not some some hastily convened kangaroo court.

Should I ever be unfortunate enough to say, bust a level in a non-radar environment over somewhere like Tunisia I know I could submit a report to my safety commitee in confidence knowing that my confidential report would not then be used to demote me. A theoretical scenario of course.

I have a fixed base with free parking (saves £700 pa for those with Heathrow as a Netjets gateway).

Any of my time spent travelling on company business counts as duty.

Any time spent on company business, admin and the like, counts as duty time.

Our passengers never complain as the aircraft they requested is always there on time.

I have never been asked by my present company to lie to an owner or passenger about a delay or other company failure.

My passengers are happier. Many remark on the difference in quality of service.

My uniform is not made of elastic.

I don't have to wear that f**king tie.

Specific enough for you?

[H.Finn]

Thank you, Flintstone. Could not have put it better myself, actually not nearly as well.

[pimpsqueak]

Thanks for that in depth reply Flinstone very well worded and a lot of valid points addressed!!

I guess that puts GAMA just about at the top of the pile then in terms of Biz jet operators??
To be honest in the UK they all seen much of a muchness TAG, GAMA Hangar 8, LEA, Gold Air (or whatever they call themselves now).

Heard rumours the other day Gama have a couple of Dreamliners & a 7X on order???

P.s I apologize for my initial blunt response but I have seen and dealt with a lot of *********'s in this industry & thought I was dealing with another one, however, obviously not.

P/squeak..

[Crosswind Limits]

pimpsqueak

I think Flintstone is referring to TAG NOT Gama.

[bilderberger]

Well, where do I start?
Firstly let me say to Sparky 01 (entry 110)........If the problems last year on the scottish operation were "minor niggles"........I certainly wouldn't like to work for a company that you thought had serious problems!!!!
Anyway moving on, im not sure which company Flintsone was referring too however, I would not have thought he was wide of the mark in describing any FAB biz jet operator??
Pimpsqueak, like I have said before & I reiterate, there is almost two sides to the Gama operation.....the scottish which is a case of out of sight out of mind and the FAB side of the things which is a completely different kettle of fish! One of the main gripes of all the scottish crews was the lack of communication and the reassurance of being part of a larger outfit, you wouldn't believe in Scotland how many people think the Gama company are just 2 kingairs!
This may sound rich coming from me but I cannot really fault them when it comes to biz jet side!!! The perks I mentioned earlier,well I am not going into details on a public forum, but briefly things like company phone, generally unlimited use (within reason), company credit card useage, no limit,expenses.....non of this allowance s***e, having to worry about skiping breakfast so you can get dinner, from what I've seen & hear Gama are top draw expenses, no questions asked, if you want something you get it, simple. The way it should be!
Pretty much 90% of what flintsone said (even if he was describing TAG) goes with Gama anyway hand in hand.
I notice another thread has started regarding all the business jet operators and their rosters!Well in GA (apart from N/Jets, & personally I wouldn't call them GA anyway,you might as well go & work for an airline) I didn't know there was any rosters??? And certainly not fixed.(Although many pretend to be!)
If anybody gets a REGULAR solid roster in GA they are very lucky guys & gals indeed!!That's the nature of the work isn't it?
I always thought a solid roster was work in macdonalds.
BB.

[Flintstone]

pimpsqueak

I think Flintstone is referring to TAG NOT Gama.
Thanks Crosswind, I was. Sorry for not making myself clear.

pimpsqueak, no worries.

[pimpsqueak]

Thanks Flintsone & BB, lots of good points and info in there.

Bilderberger seeing as you mention the other thread regarding "biz jet roster's" can you clarify what the Gama crews do?

[bilderberger]

You are asking the wrong person when it comes to Gama & Rosters!!!

Pretty much depends on what fleet you are on.........
Big Stuff (BBJ , G5, G4 etc).....month on, month off
kingair fleet.........6on/3 off
Challengers, Hawkers, lears........varied don't know

I am sure some of the guys will answer that one for you

BB

[bilderberger]

Whats happening at glasgow these days? I believe all the Paramedics have walked now because of the atmosphere, negativity and most of all the lack of experienced pilots - maybe i was right, it is a dangerous place to work and even the customer (scottish ambulance service) is starting to notice!

Abz base is rapidly becoming a dangerous place to work - even the training captains are standing down from their positions as trainers.......You have to ask yourself - Why?

If GAMA isnt careful the senior members of staff are likely to walk from the ABZ base too as well as the Paramedics.

It cant be long until this operation falls apart!

BB :)

[Richard101]

I believe there was issues with Paramedics in Glasgow but I heard the reason was NHS politics, rather than safety at Gama. I also know a few pilots have left scotland over the past few months but they have not left Gama, they have been moved down to London to work on Hawkers and Challengers.

[S205-18F]

Hi folks I must put my tuppence worth in here! I am a paramedic with SAS and do shifts on the Kingair in Glasgow! I can only say good things about the crews that I have worked with they are professional, switched on and very dedicated! Yes there are a few with less experience but we all had to start somewhere and training is carried out on shift but I have never had cause for concern! I am a PPL so I have a slightly better knowledge of whats going on than my colleagues but no concerns have been raised. The troubles with the SAS staff was down to sickness and Maternity issues and not allowing Paramedics from outside the small catchment area to apply, nothing to do with Gama or the Flight crew!

[Duck Rogers]

Notice to all of you. I will NOT have people scotching (pun intended) a good rumour and promising bunfight with the truth!

Now, back to the usual lies, deceit and smoke and mirrors please.


Duck.

[drag king]

Whats happening at glasgow these days? I believe all the Paramedics have walked now because of the atmosphere, negativity and most of all the lack of experienced pilots - maybe i was right, it is a dangerous place to work and even the customer (scottish ambulance service) is starting to notice!Have you got an axe to grind with Gama dude? SURE you have...:E

Whats happening at glasgow these days?Why don't you ask the NHS?

I believe all the Paramedics have walked now because of the atmosphere, negativity and most of all the lack of experienced pilots - maybe i was right, it is a dangerous place to work and even the customer (scottish ambulance service) is starting to notice!Why don't you apply then and bring your wisdom, expertise, experience and all the S..T you are full to turn that table over? MAYBE because you don't have a clue of what you are talking about, have you? SURE you don't...:E

Abz base is rapidly becoming a dangerous place to work - even the training captains are standing down from their positions as trainers.......You have to ask yourself - Why?Why don't you bring the CAA in then? Again because I AM SURE you don't have a clue of what you are talking about...:E

It cant be long until this operation falls apart!Let's hope the only thing that falls apart is your tongue (or fingers) so we won't have to read this rubbish anymore...:E

DK ;)

[bilderberger]

Drag King,
Apply!!!
No need to, the word t-shirt springs to mind.

Secondly,
If you can be bothered to read my previous entries on these threads you will see I do not have an axe with GAMA, in fact on occasion, I have been complimentary, except when in comes to the scottish operation!!!

I was just trying to clarify what I had heard through a fourth party, that basically i was CORRECT all along, standards have dropped, core experienced pilots have moved on and nobody wants to work there!!!
I like to see myself as a good ppruner who provides positive, fair & objective input on a wide range of avaition topics!!!!

[pimpsqueak]

I am based at GLA with a UK airline and was toying with the idea of applying to Gama last year for some jet work. Obviously being GLA based you do get to hear snips of info & I spoke to several people about the operation.
I must admit, it did sound a little strange, pilots were just up & leaving due to poor training, (apparantly one very experienced trainee captain just abandoned the aircraft altogether, got out of his seat with the aircraft on the apron, engines running & pax on board & just walked, never to be seen again!!).
There were also tales of crews not knowing how to use the glass cockpit aircraft & I was told some crews are trained on different types of avionics! Also I am now led to believe there is only one resident Captain based at Glasgow because everybody else has left?
Now it appears there are no paramedics either for whatever reasons.

I know of several very experienced Kingair captains who would do that job but certainly not for the money that Gama were offering.

[youaintseenme]

bilderberger,

Whats happening at glasgow these days?We are having a good time, getting on with our jobs and glad to be free of whinging, loudmouthed, prats like you!

What IS your problem? Did you not manage to get another job since you left?

Get a life man, get out more!

[youaintseenme]

I posted a reply on Mon 10th March. Could a moderator please let me know what has happened to it please?

[Duck Rogers]

You mean this one?


bilderberger,

Quote:
Whats happening at glasgow these days?
We are having a good time, getting on with our jobs and glad to be free of whinging, loudmouthed, prats like you!

What IS your problem? Did you not manage to get another job since you left?

Get a life man, get out more!

It's there, two posts up. Above the test post you deleted.



Duck

[youaintseenme]

Thanks Duck, dunno what happened there (probably me) :\

:O

[drag king]

If you can be bothered to read my previous entries on these threads you will see I do not have an axe with GAMA, in fact on occasion, I have been complimentary, except when in comes to the scottish operation!!!Then you HAVE an axe to grind! It's obvious since you don't have a clue of how the SAS OPS work...:E

Here: I was just trying to clarify what I had heard through a fourth partyA FOURTH (4TH) PARTY? :uhoh: Are you joking or what? Not even a 3rd, let alone a 2nd...??? C'MON you cannot be serious!

No need to, the word t-shirt springs to mind.Well, you might wear a white shirt and black chinos so after you can take the gold bars away and carry on as a cafè-waiter (with all the respect for the latest ones) if a T-Shirt doesn't make you feel a REAL pilot...:E

I like to see myself as a good ppruner who provides positive, fair & objective input on a wide range of avaition topics!!!!Well, self-esteem helps sometime...:hmm:

Best luck mate and as someone suggested get a job in the industry ASAP.

DK ;)

PS: I must admit, it did sound a little strange, pilots were just up & leaving due to poor training, (apparantly one very experienced trainee captain just abandoned the aircraft altogether, got out of his seat with the aircraft on the apron, engines running & pax on board & just walked, never to be seen again!!).Are you serious? I mean..are you really an ATP? Just let me know which carrier you fly for. No fool that believe (or even mention) urban myths like this will even be at the controls of the a/c that carries my butt around...:E

[Cloud Chaser]

Have things improved over the last year?

The captains job has been listed on their website since the beginning of the year.
I applied back then, have more twin turboprop time than they ask for total hours, and exceed the P.1 requirement by a long way as well. Have yet to get any kind of feedback. :confused:

Can anyone in the company shed any light on the current situation?

[Daifly]

Hi, vacancies are full now I'm afraid.

If anyone knows anything about how our recruitment website works and how I can remove the job advert without sending everyone an e-mail asking them to interview, please let me know....! Sorry if it's keeping up some false hopes by still being there.

As for feedback, really sorry, but we had over 500 applications for the position - astounded us, but maybe says a lot about the market - to give everyone feedback or even acknowledgement would take so much time we'd need a full time HR admin person which in this climate we can't really justify.

Thanks though, the interest is really appreciated and hopefully there will be opportunities in the near future across the fleet.

<< I worked out how to close it.... >>

[Cloud Chaser]

Thanks for that.
I'm guessing the same thing applies to the Moscow F/O vacancies? It did say on that one, if there had been no news by the end of June, we could take that to mean 'better luck next time'.

[Cloud Chaser]

Daifly, if you're still around (and in the same post) could you update the website again to show which positions are actually open. I'd swear some of those vacancies have been there for over a year(?).

[Daifly]

I'm not, but will ask those that are to update it; there's a new site coming because the old one isn't very user friendly (from either side!)