JAA ATPL Ground Exams

[GodisMyCopilot]

Hi All

I am considering my ground school with Bristol, after the 2 week revision courses how many days do the exams take? how many do you sit per day and where do you sit them, with the school??

cheers

[EGAC_Ramper]

Exams are Monday-Thursday and as for how many you sit depends what ones,some days aybe one other 2.


Regards

[Charlie Zulu]

The exam schedule is usually as below:

Monday

0930 Principles of Flight 1:00
1045 Aircraft General Knowledge 2:00
1400 Mass and Balance 1:00
1515 Aircraft Performance 1:00

Tuesday

0900 Instruments 1:30
1100 Ops Procedures 1:20
1300 Flight Planning 3:00

Wednesday

0900 General Navigation 2:00
1115 Radio Navigation 1:30
1345 Meteorology 2:30

Thursday

0900 Air Law and ATC Procedures 1:40
1100 Human Performance and Limitations 1:00
1300 VFR Comms 0:30
1345 IFR Comms 0:30

So if I have the module 1 for Bristol correct, you'll be in the exam room everyday.

[tu154]

When I did mod 2 in may (bristol) the mod 2 subjects were:

POF, AGK, Perf
Ops
Rad Nav
Air Law

So Mod 1 was:
Mass and Bal
Insts, Flight PLanning
Gen Nav, Met
HPL, VFR Comms, IFR comms.

You will be in the exam hall every day either way.

[crap pilot]

Does anybody have an exam timetable that could give me some details? I just found out that i will need to book holidays from work by tommorow and can not find the copy that i had.
I will be taking AGK, Radio Nav, IFR Comms and VFR Comms.
Could anybody let me know what days(and possibly times) these are held on?

Thanks

[BigGrecian]

Perhaps a search of the CAA website before posting?
This Year (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_exam_timetable_Prof_FEs_01_05.pdf)
Next Year (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_exam_timetable_Prof_FEs_Aug_05.pdf)

[Superpilot]

Could somebody give me an idea of how the exams and exam dates are structured? (genereally, not specific to Bristol) I’m looking to start my distance learning course (not with Bristol). I aim to study for each module, one at a time and then do an exam for that module only….with a view to then go back and study for the next module and then take the exam for that, and so on......

Or is one required to do more than one exam per day? Can certain exams only be done on certain days? Is there a minimum number of exams one needs to do per exam-day?

A bit confused here.
Thanks

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi Superpilot,

The exams start on the first Monday of every month, unless that Monday happens to be a bank holiday, in which case they will start on the following Monday.

The timetable is fixed. Usually the same as the one I posted above.

No matter how many exams you take within the same exam week, this will be counted as 1 exam room sitting. So if you take 1, 2 or even 8 exams in the same week then you will have used up 1 sitting at the exam hall.

Why does this matter? Well you are only allowed up to 6 sittings at the exam room in total. So this obviously means you will need to sit more than one exam at a time. Ideally you will be wanting to do 5 or so each time to leave you enough sittings left if you have to resit any.

Talking about resits, these have to be taken within the total of the 6 sittings BUT you are only allowed 4 attempts at each subject.

If you use up all 6 sittings and haven't passed them all, or if you fail one or more of the subjects 4 times then its back to school as you'll have to start the ATPL exams all over again, from scratch. Although I believe the CGI at the school can wave the requirement of the study time required in this case.

Most schools have organised their courses into two or three modules. Bristol has two modules, the first one with 8 subjects/exams and the second module containing 6 exams. If you pass the exams first time and take them all in the same relevant sitting for the module then you'll take two sittings in total. This would leave you 4 sittings left in case you did fail any.

The school I am with (NAC) have 7 subjects/exams in each module, so giving me two modules.

Cabair, Cranfield Aviation etc have three modules, with I believe 5 subjects/exams in the first two modules and 4 in the last module (although I might be wrong). Leaving one with 3 sittings left for any resits.

Hope this answers your question.

Charlie Zulu.

[Superpilot]

It does, thanks!

[helicopter-redeye]

I’m looking to start my distance learning course (not with Bristol). I aim to study for each module, one at a time and then do an exam for that module only….with a view to then go back and study for the next module and then take the exam for that, and so on

Madness. Impossible probably as you will time out on the 18 month rule but most likely run out of sittings (6 max).

Either

(a). do a block of 7 then 7 exams then rinse and repeat for the next set; or

(b). study all 14 then sit 14, then mop up non-passes in next 1 or 2 sittings (but with no pressure on timing out on the 18 month rule).

Hope this is helpful,

h-r:)

[Superpilot]

OK, so I misunderstood the whole process, glad I know now! :hmm:

Having done about 15 IT related exams in the last 3 years, I can see the approach to the ATPL exams isn't going to be any different. I.e. Read some really vague material and then practise loads of questions....do exam....if fail....repeat to fade.

Do you guys get the feeling sometimes that you are cramming in everything for the sake of passing exams/and so sod the deep understanding/learning? All the professional exams I've sat have forced this attitude on to me. Come on be honest :p

Also, interested to know roughly how many questions per each of the exams.

Thanks

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi SuperPilot,

The number of questions in each exam, as a general rule of thumb:

75 - Aviation Law
76 - Aircraft General Knowledge
56 - Instrumentation
22 - Mass and Balance
34 - Performance
56 - Flight Planning
47 - Human Performance
90 - Meteorology
54 - General Navigation
59 - Radio Navigation
50 - Operational Procedures
44 - Principles of Flight
23 - VFR Communications
23 - IFR Communications

However this doesn't mean the number of questions will equal the number of allocated marks. The more difficult questions are weighted with 2 marks or as in the case in the August Meteorology exam 3 marks (one of the last few questions).

Each exam has to be passed with at least 75% of the allocated marks.

Learning the subjects by use of feedback and past papers will not guarantee you a pass. You have to learn and understand the theory behind each subject as well as going through the past questions. The real question bank is updated all the time with new questions replacing older questions.

Although these are multiple choice questions, they are not easy. The questions are designed to enable the exam to ensure one has studied the required material and not just gone through feedback questions.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu

[helicopter-redeye]

Do you guys get the feeling sometimes that you are cramming in everything for the sake of passing exams/and so sod the deep understanding/learning? All the professional exams I've sat have forced this attitude on to me. Come on be honest

No.

There is some cramming (as with all exams)

But you also learn a load.

Amazing how many dinner conversations you can pack details of the Organised Track System or Met conditions into (especially 'anticyclonic gloom') ....;)

[Alex Whittingham]

...to £60 a paper.

New CAA Charges (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_SCharges_prof_06.pdf)

Far too much, I'm afraid.

[Linda Mollison]

And CPL and IR skill test fees going up to £691 from £637, partial test fee to £462 from £428.

Also far too much

Linda

[aztec25]

Uk inflation down to 2.1%

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4523948.stm

CAA charges rise by about 9%

Don't just sit there...

Dear, <My MP>
c/o House of Commons
London
SW1A 0AA

[What's a Girdler]

Bring in Lembit Opik, the flying man in the House of Commons, if he reads this website, please can you throw this open to the house.

This is completely unfair, I had to recently spend £16 of my money so that the FAA could look at my details, who's conning who!!

[helicopter-redeye]

It would be interesting and enlightening to hear the CAA's version of why the costs are going up.

No. Cancel that. There will be a fee associated with 'responding to reasonable questions' :*

[High Wing Drifter]

AOPA say they have lost the battle to prevent the CAA hiking up GA's costs. That included the help of three MPs including Rt Hon Opik. I believe, the CAA is going to be audited soon though.

[Send Clowns]

What on Earth does a student get for £60? A place in a room for an hour or 2, 2 invigilators between 20-60 people, a shoddily-written exam and a 2-week wait for results. I thought services were not supposed to be cross-subsidised now. Disgraceful.

[What's a Girdler]

It does seem that aviation is seen as the past time of the rich, when in reality it is the past time of the heavily debted! So it makes sense to put us all further in debt!!

I had a class 1 medical taken at work, one of the perks of working for NATS which was free, I had to have an electrocardiogram, as it was due, to which the doctor said was 'absolutely spot on'; 'lovely all done then', I said. I was then told that I had to pay the bloody Campaign Against Aviation £27 so they could read the plot given by the ECG, and come to the same conclusion that a very experienced NATS doctor had already concluded!!

IT'S ALL A BIG CON FROM THE GATWICK GREY WARSHIP!!

[fastjet2k]

This is completely unfair, I had to recently spend £16 of my money so that the FAA could look at my details, who's conning who!!

CAA Charge for sending fax to Oklahoma City: £16

FAA Charge for reading said fax, reading application form, approving documents and transferring to local office, issuing temporary airman's certificate, printing FAA licence card (plastic and credit card sized) and postage to UK: £0... Yes, Free

Value of the FAA teaching the CAA a lesson in charging: Priceless

[Charlie Zulu]

If I remember correctly, the problem with the CAA is that it was stipulated a good few years ago that it has to be self funding whereas the FAA has funding from Government.

Further to Send Clowns post...

What is worse is that those of us sitting the exams at Gatwick were provided with such a small desk with such a small space between them, glad I didn't do General Navigation at Gatwick.

The Orlando exam venue was much nicer, we had large desks that we could spread all of our charts out with plenty of room to spare.

Does anyone know of an exam venue in the UK which allows the use of large desks? I have flight planning coming up in the next (and last) seven and thus would really like a nice large desk to work from...

[aztec25]

Had no complaints about the Glasgow venue (did Nov exams there). Very quiet room, 2 desks (pushed together) per candidate, as much space as you need. Coffee bar just across the courtyard.

[High Wing Drifter]

If I remember correctly, the problem with the CAA is that it was stipulated a good few years ago that it has to be self funding whereas the FAA has funding from Government.
Yes, but people are asking what exactly do they spend their money on. Hence the proposed audit. They are meant to facilitate aviation, not fleece it as some quasi job creation scheme.

The Campaign Against Aviation indeed :*

[EGBKFLYER]

The reason the CAA give us little desks to do our planning exams on is because that is all you get on the Airbuses we will all be flying soon:).

Count yourself lucky - you have to do it on your knee in a Boeing so the FAA guys don't even get a desk.

[Wodka]

Just another sad example of 'Suit Britain' as I call it ...

The whole country is being run by boring little grey men who know more about microsoft excel than anything else.

What next - a doctors assessment to see if you are going to breach any health & safety 'codes of conduct' when your sitting at your exam table?

:yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[Send Clowns]

At Shuttleworth they arranged pairs of desks for the flight planning exam, at a student's request. However this was not standard, and that centre is no longer in use. You could try at Silsoe; probably not worth it at Gatwick!

CAA might be self-funded, but the exams have for years been a lot more expensive per hour than your lessons, and there you have a skilled instructor to each class of between 5 and 15 students (in most schools)! He has to prepare classes, which shold be more work than running the exam - you should not be charged for the incompetence of the JAA in setting up teh exams, giving exrta work marking. That is immoral and disgraceful, being charged extra due to the poor service you are receiving!

[richz3]

I'm just about to enrole to Bristol ground school to start the study for the atpl written exams using their distance learning package.

I have looked at other schools, but Bristol looks the best all round package and is not too far from me.

Before i send off my hard earned and start has anyone got any advice or experience on using Bristol GS.:confused:

Looking forward to your comments

Richz3

[flybyshark]

If its Distance Learning, everyone I know that used it thought Bristols was great.

I did a fulltime course in the end, but guys off my course still used the Bristol online facilities for revision.

[heinzmanm]

Currently half way through my studies with them and I can't find a bad thing to say about them.
Great course material, excellent insructors/tutors and top notch support and resources to help you pass the exams.
The online question database is a godsend!

Good Luck

Matt

[YYZ]

Cannot fault them, always willing to help, even after you've finished with them and just need advice?

YYZ

[Megaton]

Top notch school. When PPSC went bust, Bristol took a load of us on at short notice and I, for one, passed all the exams first time with them.

[stue]

A mate of mine went to Bristol, he said they were fantastic, one of the best places you can go. You gota put the work in though!

[Ultranomad]

Hi everyone.
There is a rather persistent opinion that one may sit JAA ATPL exams without formal theoretical training. However, according to JAR-FCL 1.485(b), one has to be recommended by an approved FTO to take the exams. Is this a clear prohibition, or are there any alternative means of compliance?

[Charlie Zulu]

The only way around it is if you are very experienced and hold an ICAO ATPL. I believe you'll also need many hours on a jet / turboprop aircraft but am unsure about that.

Even if you hold an ICAO CPL/IR, you are still required to sit the entire course and the classroom element before going to the exams and the school has to sign the application form to say you are ready to take them.

[apruneuk]

If you are to do the exams via distance learning as I did, it must be through an approved course. This requires at least 200 hours of formal ground instruction as opposed to the 600-odd required by the residential course. Sadly, you are not simply allowed to buy the books, learn the subjects and sit the exams.

[Wannabe24]

Yes 10% of any distance learning programme needs to be completed in class, under guidance of an instructor. This is the offical line

[Alex Whittingham]

Yes, most of that is correct. You are completely exempt approved ground training if you have an ATPL with 1500hrs+ on aircraft certified for two pilot operation. If you hold an ATPL but don't have the 1500 hours two pilot time then you have to do an appproved course but the time spent on the course may be reduced at 'the discretion of the Head of Training of an approved FTO'. Frozen ATPLs/CPLs get no credits.

A full approved modular course must consist of at least 650 hours of instruction, 10% at least must be done in the classroom.

[richz3]

Thanks all for replies.

Looks like BristolGS will be getting my business, lets hope i'm up to the challenge!! :ok:

Richz3

[drillrod]

Hi everybody,

I have been searching through the archives for the past few days but couldn't make out any conclusions.

I would like to convert my canadian CPL MIFR licences to JAR fATPL. I am looking for a focused ground school that would permit me to do it in a shortest time frame possible (cheapest?). I do have a EU passport and wouldn't mind moving over to UK and sitting in a classroom for couple of month to do it instead of the distance learning thing. Anybody know of any good schools offering such programs?

[Yebo]

Hi,

I did my ICAO to JAA conversion at Atlantic Flight Training, in Coventry.
It is 5+ star on my rating! They will tailormake your training to your personal needs and legal requirements. Instructors are very competent and friendly, very relaxed but higly professional, high-tec facilities, excelent books, top sims and aircraft.
You can choose distance learning or full time. They have students house at afordable rates.
Try
www.flyaft.com (http://www.flyaft.com)

Good luck
yebo

[Lord Flashheart]

Sorry that this is a little off the subject but do you know if AFT are still running their sponsorship course?

I heard they had stopped it recently and any guys on the course were having to pay for the rest or sod off basically. Any truth in this?

[drillrod]

Thanks for the info Yebo. Check your PMs.

[lloydsky]

I believe this is the worst of the bunch.
Anyone sat it in the last couple of months? Could you tell me anything about the main subject areas (I am assuming Global Climatology) any tips?
(again I am assuming that you just have to learn the bloody lot!)

[learboys]

Hi
buy yourself the Oxford met CD and go into the web basehttp://www.bristol.gs/

good luck

[FFP]

(I am assuming that you just have to learn the bloody lot!)

Yip, that'd be the case . . . . .

Not a dig at you Lloyd, but in general . . .

Can anyone explain, in no more than 20 words, the prevalent attitude of "How little must I learn to pass the exam" attitude ?

The thing is, it's all well and good passing the exam, and any edge you can get on the paper before you sit it is understandable, but once you start working in the aviation industry it'll mean cock all if you can't read a TAF or interpret a Sig Wx chart.

Do yourselves a favour and learn it all for the fact that it will make you a more competent and professional operator and stops you looking an idiot in front of the rest of the crew.

[High Wing Drifter]

Met is like PoF, lots of grey areas. Lots of questions with more than one (or two) plausibly correct answers. I found it very useful working from first principles, feedback is no where near enough security.

[learboys]

It is a tough one and does take time to learn, as mentioned the Oxford cd really explaines well, it is also one of the few subjects you actually use when flying. Having knowlege of weather can one day save your life, when weather radar's go on the blink, which they do you need to know what to do.

Save yourself the hassel of learning thick books and difficult explainations, all you need is the CD and you will be fine.

[smith]

Don't agree!!

Global and area climatology does not have to be learned, it is a scientific model with which you can deduce the climate in a region at a specific time of year.

Knowing the movement of the ITCZ will let you deduce global climatology.

Also the direction of upper winds etc can be deduced from scientific models and principles, so its not all learning parrot fashion.:sad:

[paco]

Well said FFP! learn the minimum to pass your exams and you will certainly fail the interview!

Phil

[lloydsky]

I agree with most comments.

I have the oxford CD, its quite good but not in all area's. I have always tried to learn and understand the full subject mater as well as useing the feedback even though 80% of the entire course is TOTAL CRAP and probably 95% you will never need.

If the CAA were even remotely interested in quality training they would pour some of the zillions of pounds we give them and modernise the training to include much more relevant and useful knowledge.

And in the exams ALL they are interested in is catching you out with stupid little tricks, not actually testing your knowledge.

I'm on my last lot in 2 1/2 weeks and I cant wait and btw thank goodness for the feed back I have passed all in the 90's 1st time thanks to that!

[Dom McNeill]

I would agree in part that most of the Meteorology theory can be deduced from first principles. I have found that a lot can be explained from the movement of the ITCZ alone, especially Global and area climatology, and winds for that matter. As for feedback, i would say with certainty that it is essential. Knowing the theory is great until you see the questions. The guys writing the questions take great pleasure in trying to catch us out. So being able to understand what it is they want to know if half the answer!!

[apruneuk]

I did the writtens via distance learning with Cabair but bought the Oxford cd for Met which was excellent except for the fact that the narrators' voices became a trifle irritating after a while. I didn't even pick up the Cabair notes and managed 92%. Still, you can't expect to ace them all!

[rlarsen]

Hello!

Is there anybody that can tell me where i can find the rules concerning which questions that need to be on the written ATPL exam.

Need to know if the exam have to cover basicly every aspect ( chapter) of the book or is that up to the CAA to decide..

Rene

[High Wing Drifter]

Here you go: http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/jar-fcl/jar-fcl_atpla_frame.html

[rlarsen]

Hey High Wing Drifter!

The site you refer to is how I understand it what, I have to learn during my course.
Might just be me that interpret that wrong.

But I am looking for something the in detail descripes the type of question on the written atpl exam. meaning : x number of questions from this chapter of the book, x number of questions from the next chapter and so on.

Rene

[lionco]

Try this
http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/jar-fcl_questions.html
Good luck
Lionco:ok:

[cantw82fly]

I'm looking to start ATPL full time ground school this summer. I've narrowed it down to 2 FTOs - one does it in 2 modules and the other in 3. Which is best? Am I right in thinking that if it's done in 3 modules then that's 3 sittings? If so, the maximum of 6 sittings looks a bit close!

Anyone's thoughts much appreciated.

[padded cell]

Guess it really comes down to how much time you have and how you study.

If you pass first time then it doesn't really matter how many modules you do as you won't run out of sittings. Some people find the three modules easier to manage and concentrate on the subjects giving a better life/work balance. Others find that they are happier with cramming them all into two.

It's got to be what is going to work for you.

[cantw82fly]

Thanks.

The workload is the same for both routes - they are both 27 weeks. It's just a case of 3 exam sittings or 2.

I'm tending to favour the 3 module route, but have no idea how many (if any) resits are normal. I'm no maths wizzkid!

[helicopter-redeye]

How about take the 13/14 subjects (as applicable) at ground school then sit all 13/14 in one week.

This will mean you have more available sittings in the exams, more time and will have seen the synergy between the subjects?

[cantw82fly]

Nice idea, but 14 exams in 1 sitting would kill me!

[portsharbourflyer]

Go for the three stage option, it makes perfect sense. Remember as well as six sittings, you are only allowed four attempts at any one subject. So if you have sat all exams by the third sittings, that still leaves three sittings for resits, that still gives you the maximum number of attempts(four) at any subject. So you will not lose anything by using the third sitting, you will only increase your chances of passing all at first attempt.

For the record I did distance learning on a three stage ground school and got every subject at first attempt.

[padded cell]

Again for the record - I'm part way through 3 modules. Just finishing off the third module by Distance Learning. It's worked so far for me too.

All the best with whatever you decide.

pc

[GusHoneybun]

portshabourflyer has hit the nail on the head there. when it comes to resits, you get just as much chance as the 2 module people.

one thing that sways it for some is that the brush up courses are normally only 1 week in length, rather than the usual 2 weeks. some people find it easier with work and family to have one week off rather than 2.

[Speedbird744]

I'm aware you lose your money for not turning up, but for a particular exam will that count as a FAIL and will you lose the "attempt"?

Say if its the first attempt, will it still be the first attempt once rebooking? Or will it go to the 2nd attempt?


Many thanks.

[EGBKFLYER]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_directions_to_candidates.pdf

This should answer your question. CAA website, under FCL examinations section...

[rons22]

Hi,

could someone tell me if ATPL exam questions all carry the same marks or simple questions score less points than more complex ones?

Thank you

[jayteeto]

I did the JAR Perf exam this week and 34 questions gave 38 marks. Some were two pointers. As I am a CAA exam old man I couldn't comment on the other tests.

[rons22]

thanks mate, i did performance, Systems and Priciples of flight

[smith]

Yes, the exam quetions are weighted, especially G-NAV 1,2,3 and even I think 4 mark questions are included. The G_NAV test on weds had something like 58 questions but there were about 80-90 marks available as far as I can remember. Thats the problem with the bristol web site, each q is worth 1 mark and can skew the way you think you are performing.

[helicopter-redeye]

Quite a big skew on some papers. Flight Planning for example. During a tea break in Flight Planning, I calculated you could blow the whole paper on a single page in that particular exam ... :eek:

Others, much flatter.

May vary by paper as well. Depends on the luck of the draw ...

[sicky]

Hey

I've been looking at a lot of integrated courses, and i know that there are PPL exams, and also ATPL exams.

On an integrated course there are 14 exams. Does this cover PPL and ATPL, or are these ONLY ATPL exams?

For example, if you did a PPL and went onto an integrated course, is there still 14 exams?

How many exams are there at PPL level?

On an integrated course, do you do the PPL exams and then go onto ATPL exams?

I hope that's clear, i tried a search but nothing came up and i asked in another thread but nobody seemed to know. Thanks

[king rooney]

If you do a modular route, you have to take 7 ppl exams, and then the 14 ATPL exams on top of that.
The integrated students only do the 14 ATPL exams. Wheres the fairness in that!
In my opinion either the mod students should have to take less exams, or better, the lazy integrated students should have to do more to compensate for not doing the PPL exams! That'll teach em!

[sicky]

Thanks Rooney, was always something that i don't think was made clear and i always wondered!

It does seem a little unfair, i don't quite know how they work that one out!

[mcgoo]

quite easily, if you do the modular route you have to hold a ppl to qualify to take the atpl exams so to get the ppl you have to do the ppl exams, the integrated route, a lot of schools do the atpl exams first, then begin flight training so it would be pointless taking the ppl exams when you already hold atpl exams

[sicky]

Ahhh gotcha! That DOES make sense:p

[king rooney]

Nah, it makes no sense whatsoever.
Why should a modular student have to hold a PPL before he takes the ATPL exams, when an integrated guy can start the ATPL theory and take all of the exams dispite in many cases having never ever flown a plane?

Is someone who has never flown a plane really in a position to understand fully the ATPL material, with no flying experience to refer to?
Does the integrated system therefore compromise pilots knowledge an understanding of aviation and ultimately therefore compromise flight safety?

In my opinion the modular system needs revamping. People should be allowed to do the ATPL exams first before doing their PPL, and therefore be exempt from the 7ppl exams.

Mind you, then the only difference between a mod course and an integrated course would be that a mod guy would have to take a PPL skills test b4 doing his CPL training and test, the integrated guy would not. It would hardly then be worth making a distinction between the two routes, would it?

The upshot of all this, abolish integrated courses!

[sicky]

The difference is that on an integrated course, you do it all in one go. On a modular course, there's a bit more slack as to how and when you do things. You could easily just do the PPL and then the ATPL part at a later date, whilst on an integrated there is no "PPL part" so you just do it all at once. I hope that's clear as to what i'm getting at

[Blinkz]

Its an interesting point rooney makes. However why stop at just allowing modular guys to do ATPLs before PPL? Why not just let them go straight onto the CPL course after their ATPL exams and just make it slightly longer to take this into account? Now that WOULD be a good idea, I wonder why no ones done it? :confused:

[king rooney]

Or, instead of changing the modular system, why don't all the modualar schools simply start offering integrated courses? If the only differences are that you take the ATPL exams first and do not have to take a PPL skills test then it should be a simple matter, or would the mod school then have to carry out the ATPL theory course "in house", which many may not have the facilities/ staff to do?
Or could it be set up so that the flying side of it is integrated, with the theory bolted on at the start somewhere else as a separate module? The quality of the product as a whole would be no different. Admittedly the mod schools would have to start offering an MCC, but even if a mod school could not offer an MCC "in house", could they still not integrate the flying side up to the IR?

If that could be done then we could see integrated training available for the same cost as a zero-atpl mod course, ie at a fraction of what it costs at the select 3 integrated schools (FTE, OAT and CABAIR) who have pretty much a monopoly on that type of training.

It would be interesting to know what criteria the CAA set for lisencing a school to do integrated training. If it is the case that a school must do the ground school "in house", as I think it might be, then that is rediculous.
Are there any other criteria that a school must fulfil to be lisenced to provide an integrated course?

From what I can make out, the differences between modular and integrated training up to FATPL are, given the fact that both routes involve roughly the same amounts of dual and solo flying, that a mod student has to jump through a couple of extra beaurocratic hoops.
Why not remove these hoops and make life easier for mod students everywhere, as well as removing the monopoly that the "big 3" have over the integrated market, which allows them to charge such exorbitant prices.
Were the stakes evened, a school such as OAT would have to justify charging 30grand more than say Stapleford through demonstrating that it provided better training, not by saying "ours is an integrated course, theirs is not, so we must be better!" Could they do that? I think not!

[smith]

if you do the modular route you have to hold a ppl to qualify to take the atpl exams so to get the ppl you have to do the ppl exams

Not true, you can do the ATPL's with any ICAO ppl, an FAA PPL only requires one exam lasting an hour.

[mcgoo]

err hello that makes it true then!

For Mr Pedantic especially, read the last of the sentance as exam/s!

[tinmouse]

Hi,

Has anyone any info on when the results are out for the April 3rd CAA ATPL exams?

Tinmouse.

[Blinkz]

They are allowed 10 working days to get them sorted so that could mean results on Tuesday 25th.

[dwshimoda]

It's actually 10 working days from the Friday at the end of the exams - so as Tinmouse says - ading 10 working days (don't forget the 2 Bank Holidays) leads you up to Tue 25th.

Good luck with them :)

[jayteeto]

You and many others thinking the same, I nearly mugged the postman this morning. All for one exam!! :{

[tinmouse]

While we’re on the subject, there were a lot of queries in our Flight Planning exam. Has anyone else queried any questions in this exam?

[Blinkz]

I found flight planning ok, altho I think I've royally screwed up airlaw:eek:

[redbaron999]

There would appear to be a fair bit of controversy over the last question ie endurance which I beleive is identical to an Italian feedback question with an answer of 4 hours 7 mins. Same question in Oxford feedback gives 4 hours 12 mins. Closest answer to Italian FB was 4 hours 9 mins! That is if the question was identical. I beleive Oxford may have queried 2 G-Nav questions. One with respect to what latitude are you at when the sun rises and sets at a certian time. This I am informed possibly should have referred to an almanac appendix. Also a question on the navaid at Galway which is an NDB DME non compulsary reprting point I think. The next question then refers you to the VOR at the same station! Again I can't be quoted on it as the brain was fairly fuddled after post exam drinks!

Good luck everyone!

[smith]

Results arrived today, don't know why people keep asking this. Its normally the 2nd thursday after the exams at the earliest, but with Easter it was the friday this time. I have never heard of the exams being delivered on a Tuesday, unless of course the posty looses your mail.

[Blinkz]

yup results arrived here. All 14 in the bag :cool: let the flying begin :ok: Hope you all did well!

[tinmouse]

Wll Done. All done too, but one. Yippy!

[mr impact]

Hi everyone, I've looked around this forum for a while but this is my first post.

I've wanted to start my training for a while now but so far have only managed a couple of lessons, but come September I think I'll finally be able to do it (Modular, US for PPL and hour building).

Has anyone here done there exams first then gone to the US to do the flying, is this possible? If so where might one do the exams?

I thought this might ease the pressure a little and let me enjoy the flight training some more (not that it wouldn't be fun anyway)


Cheers
Mr Impact

[no sponsor]

Welcome to PPRUNE.

It's unclear as to which exams you are referring to, but given your wish to do a PPL, I presume you mean the PPL written exams?

If you are talking about the ATPL, or CPL exams, then you must already have a PPL before you can start.

The PPL exams are no big deal - a few weeks of hard work will see them completed. I think it's best to do these before you do the PPL, but you can do them alongside the training as well.

[mr impact]

Yes it is the PPL, thanks for the reply.

[BIG MISTER]

HI

Get the PPL exams out of the way before hand if you can...then enjoy your flying without the added pressure of that 75% pass mark !

:}

[sicky]

I do not have a PPL, and want to go onto an integrated course.

Is it possible/would it be viable to do the ATPL exams whilst i am working, with maybe Bristol GS?

Do you need to have a PPl before you can do the ATPL exams with a modular school, or can you go straight onto the ATPL exams like that?

[neilia]

If you want to do an integrated course, why would you want to do modular ATPL exams? An integrated course includes the ATPL study and exams.

Modular schools won't let you enrol for distance-learning ATPLs until you have a PPL. You could buy Oxford's notes, for example, and begin studying in your own time, though when you begin with a school you'll end up buying the notes all over again as part of the course cost.

Bascially, if you're going integrated, you don't have to do *anything* before you show up on day 1. If you're going modular, you must get your PPL before you can begin ATPL studies. And yes, it is viable to do the studies alongside a job - this is what most modular students are doing.

[sicky]

I'm just anxious to get going and thought i could make a start on the exams before i got everything sorted out. A quick visit to the BGS site did confirm what you have just said though.

How much are a set of notes for all 14 exams these days? For some reason, £700 sticks out in my head?

[neilia]

I'm sure Bristol list prices for their notes on the site somewhere. OAT's books are available through Transair - they're around 35 quid a pop, times 14.

I honestly don't think you're gaining anything by doing this though - if you want a head start, start on PPL theory.

Just out of curiosity Sicky, have you had a trial flight to see if you even like flying??

[mcgoo]

thats about right, bristol ones are slightly cheaper, £595

[sicky]

I'm just waiting for the better weather before i book it, but it is my next thing on the list. It's not worth paying that much for, was just looking at a way to start getting my head into the whole thing.

I'd have started my PPL a few years back if i could have afforded it :eek:

[neilia]

There are plenty of cheaper ways to start getting a taste...

You could sign up for aviation forecasts on www.metoffice.gov.uk, they have pages on there about decoding weather forecasts etc. That's something that would be worth starting to get your head around.

Also have a dig around http://www.ais.org.uk/ (again, you'll need to sign up). You can find the full details of all UK airports (look under UK AIP > UK AIP > AERODROME DATA), and lots of other interesting stuff under GENERAL.

On the CAA website find the document CAP413, the UK Radiotelephony manual, again lots of useful stuff to start learning.

There you go, a month's worth of bedtime reading for free ;)

[sicky]

Wow, thanks so much. I really appreciate that, and will definately have a good look around those. Thanks again :ok:

[neilia]

You're welcome - it's hard to know where to start looking for things if you don't even know what's out there to be looked for! ;)

Noticed a lot of frantic questions from you Sicky - so a few other bits of advice from me (a fellow wannabe currently on ATPL studies)...

- Age is on your side. There is really no panic whatsoever for you to be rushing into flying training right now. As a general guideline, I recall that when BA still had their cadet scheme the cutoff age was 26. That's the youngest cutoff I've seen for any cadet scheme, and even that would still give you 6 years to play with. I believe CTC is 30.

- Talk to some real live people about this! I think I remember reading that you're studying in Leeds? A quick Google turned up http://www.leedsflyingschool.co.uk/ who offer all the modular flight training - why not just drop in and have a chat to them? Flying types are usually more than happy to spend time talking about flying stuff and you'll probably find you get a lot of really good help and reassurance from them.

- It would be worth finishing your degree if you can stomach it. Engineering is certainly a useful subject to have in your back pocket, both for aviation and for finding other work in general, not necessarily specifically in engineering.

- Definitely get that trial flight in ASAP - even if your aim is big jets, you're going to spend a lot of training time banging around the skies in a little tin can with a lawnmower engine strapped to the front, navigating visually, dodging clouds, shuffling paper maps. It would be good to find out now if you're not going to like it.

Alright, enough from me!
Good luck
Neil

[Chocks_Away]

Sicky please delete some of your PM's as i could not contact you!

[sicky]

Chocks - done that :)

Neil - again, thanks so much, you've been more than helpful. Unfortunately i wasn't able to finish my degree. i wasn't enjoying it, but my mums redundancy has meant that if i want to go to university, it would now have to be somewhere i can travel to from my home. This has given me the chance to find a job and start saving though :p

Let's just hope this weather clears up soner rather than later, as frantic is the word because i just can't wait! ;)

[sicky]

No not any more, i'm back up near Newcastle. Was just looking at their websites though, but couldn't see anything about trial lessons. I'm vsure the weather down there will be better so it may work out better to do it there lol.

[neilia]

Every flying school will offer some sort of trial introductory lesson. Cleveland Flying School at Teesside were good to me when I was at home, they're part of Northern Aviation who I believe have a school at Newcastle too. Just ring up and book something, let the school make the weather decisions!

[sicky]

I'd been looking on those experience websites, and things like lastminute.com, just to get an idea of where to look. I gather that the school in Newcastle only does 30mins of flight, whilst Teeside is 60mins. The CFS site is about £50 or so cheaper than the experience sites, which is what you would expect.

I'll give thme a ring tomorrow and see what they say :ok:

Thanks again Neil

[neilia]

Believe me, if you ring them up saying you want an hour's flight, they'll happily take your money and give you an hour's flight! Besides, what you really want is a lesson, rather than what gets labelled as a "trial flight" to sell as a birthday present for dad's 50th etc. Tell 'em you're planning to do your PPL and they'll probably run it as Lesson 1, so you get to do some real stuff, possibly even the take-off.

Yeah, don't bother with the "experience" companies.

I'm getting quite excited for you myself - it's all bringing back my first flight a few years ago! ;)

[sicky]

hahaha you'll know how excited i am then!

Will definately take your advice and try and get it as a first lesson. If possible i'll do it up here at Newcastle rather than travel the hour or so to Teeside

[type1]

Hi everyone
Probably a silly question but I sat my first set of exams in Feb 2005, then didn't sit the final set until April 2006. Unfortunately I failed 2 so am resitting them on in June. Just wondered for the worst case scenario if I were to fail them again is the last chance I have July or August? August is 18 months from Feb but does it have to be inside the 18 months, i.e making it July?
Cheers in advance!
T1

[willby]

Hi Type 1,
If you obtained your first pass in Feb. 05, then I believe July 06 would be your last opportunity to sit any remaining subjects.
Regards
Willby

[potkettleblack]

I would discuss this with your ground school provider ASAP and see if they have any pull with the CAA. Reason is....As far as I know you can't enrol for a set of exams until you have received your results. So at worst if you fail 1 or 2 of the resits in June and the results are delayed in arriving then you wouldn't actually be able to enrol for the July sitting within the required time frames. Hence you would lose all your credits.

[type1]

hey guys

thanks a lot for the info, just as i feared! hopefully all should be ok but I just want to prepare for the worst!

potkettleblack, i'll be getting on to my school today!

t1

[sholva]

Hi there,

Could anyone out there please tell me where i could find past JAA FCL exams. Both CPL and ATPL. Either for free or to purchase (And I'm not talking about the books and CD's that offer questions that are 'similar' to JAA. I'm talking about actual past exams issued by JAA).

Thanks,
Sholva.

[jamojdm]

At present they are not available. The original idea once upon a time was once the question bank reached a certain number of questions (10,000?) it was to be released publically like the way the FAA does things.

The best way to test yourself and really see how bad the JAA questions are is to either use the school you are studying at's feedback or bristol.

Oh an example of a bad JAA question while I'm on the subject: What is oil/fuel heat exchanger for in a jet engine?
a) to cool the oil
b) to heat the fuel
c) something else
d) another option


Jamo

[learboys]

you can get the questions online www.bristol.gs (http://www.bristol.gs) £50 for 3 months, they are brilliant

[potkettleblack]

Jamo is giving you a bum steer. Past questions in the UK JAA exams ARE available. You can get them via the ATP website (as per the link above via Bristol). I should know I sat Airframes & Systems today and I could only think of 2 or 3 questions (out of 76) that hadn't cropped up when I was going through mock papers online with Bristol/ATP. And I don't mean similar either. I mean word for word. One question in the exam had an Appendix and this was reproduced exactly on the Bristol/ATP website as well.

Don't be tempted with the cd's on ebay or paper copy variants. More than likely they will be the old Spanish/Italian database and as far as I know those questions are being phased out as its common knowledge that most groundschools and students have nabbed themselves a copy. They also had a lot of errors in them which have been subsequently been corrected through the appeals process.

There you go some support for Bristol and they aren't even my groundschool provider!

[speedbird001]

HI All,
I'm studying for my ATPL Exams via distance learning and I'm around halfway point through Mod 1, I've just started on the Performance frame of the course and I'm really finding this subject difficult to get to grips with :ugh:
I had a chat with a few other Pilots and all of them stated that this was the most difficult exam to pass with a couple of them failing on their first attempt.
It just seems like every page I turn at the minute is more difficult to grasp than the last one :{ maybe I'm just looking for reassurance I don't know :confused: but this is heavy going at the minute, I know this might seem obvious to most people as the reward at the end of the rainbow is fantastic but how did you guys keep yourselves motivated and focused ?
Oh yeah I forgot, is Performance the most difficult exam ????
Cheers
SB001

[potkettleblack]

Yep I struggled with that one to. POF isn't much better. Also found MET difficult as well. Struggled through MET at ppl level and found the shear volume of information to be daunting.

Generally people tend to find the wordy or touchy feely subjects like Ops, Comms, Air Law the easiest as they can be rote learnt. Radio Nav is a weird one as some of the subject matter is basically out of date and you are unlikely to come across it in your career. I enjoyed the more practical papers such as flight planning and general navigation as I could get my teeth into them and actually see that I was learning something that I would use.

I found the Bristol ATP website to be excellent. If you use it then don't leave it to the last minute before you start going through the questions. In some subjects like MET there are nearly 1,000 actual JAA questions in the database.

As a skipper once told me - knuckle down and think of the ATPL's as a right of passage.

[garjoyce]

Hey,
Has anyone delt with these guys before? - http://www.aviationexam.com/. I am currently revising past questions for ATPL Exams for the end of the Summer. I am doing a home study course with Bristol and their online exam question are more expensive.
I just wanted to know if anyone has purchased the past exams with these guys and are the questions similar to what you would receive in your actual exams?
thanks again

[littco]

Hi,

Not used that online question bank, but is it really worth the risk if you are not sure when you can almost guarentee that Bristol's questions are upto date, and accurate? It's only £50 for 3 months but when you consider that an exam is £60 by using Bristol and not having to resit any you've all ready saved £10!

I've just done Mod 1 exams and can tell you that I had seen every question for Human performance, Vfr and Ifr, Flight planning, instruments and Mass and balance is on their QB! and 90-95% of the questions on Met, Gen nav!

Just a thought, is it really worth the risk for a few £?

[potkettleblack]

Agree with Littco, I just did MET and Airframes and Systems and reckon that 90% of the questions were word for word as per the Bristol ATP database. The remainder differed only very slightly and were either a play on words or used different formatting. By way of example, in Airframes there was 1 Appendix to the June exam which had a schematic of a fuel system. As luck would have it the EXACT same diagram was in the Bristol ATP database. Tricky huh!

While I am at it heres a tip for you if you haven't already come across it. If you are using the ATP database do take the time to sit through ALL of the questions (yep there can be up to a thousand of them for say MET). By doing a random mock paper you are not guaranteed of seeing all of those tricky little questions that just might pop up eg: Whats a cumulous congestus!!!. You can set a starting point for questions and also the number of questions you want to sit so you can do all the questions in blocks of say 100 questions at a time which makes life more bearable. My approach was to type into MS Word any questions and answers that I struggled with. Then I took the exam again to try and get it into my thick skull. I must have been at the database for a good month prior to the exams not wanting to leave anything to chance.

[itsbrokenagain]

The BGS website is far superior from the one you mentioned above.

From looking at both of them, as my experience as a ex teacher type person of this material you are better off spending the money over on BGS's site.

[sicky]

PKB sounds like i'll be similar to you when it comes to it, doing better at the exams where you can see your progress and directly how you'll be using things.

Could i also add to this thread and ask not just which subjects, but also topics in particular, like Gyros etc that people found hard.

Thanks

[bfato]

Pretty much the same here as potkettleblack. PoF and Met were the hardest for me, due to having to actually understand rather than learn.

Perf was a struggle to get to grips at first but all fell into place by the time of the exam. The key was understanding the drag/EAS and power/TAS curves, and deriving whatever was required from there.

Others sailed through those but struggle with the more numerate subjects like Gen Nav and Mass & Balance. We're all different!

[speedbird001]

Hi Guys,
Many thanks for your replies, I really would've liked to have done the course full time, but like most who have to carry on working, I have to do it via the distance route, I'm not complaining about that fact don't get me wrong as I feel very lucky :ok: that I'm able to even get the chance to dream and try and get an ATPL in the first place.
Overall I'm really enjoying it, even though I've fell asleep on my books many times :zzz: but I'm sure plenty of people have done that :)
I had a slightly better day on Performance funnily enough, not a lot better but better all the same, some subjects I've really looked forward to even PoF :rolleyes: Instruments I've not found to bad and the Gyros you mention Sicky I found ok and I'm really %@**~# crap at Maths although I've brushed up on it before I started my course.
Maybe I'm just waving the white flag a little early, as I'm done with some other subjects :ugh:
PKB, I like the knuckle down and think of the ATPL's as a right of passage part, a couple of my former PPL instructors keep on telling me we just get put through the mincer to worm out the dead wood.
Ah well back to it then i suppose, for another hour at least.
Cheers Guys :ok:
SB001

[Cutoff]

I struggled on Perf and it is the only ATPL that I had to re-sit, missed it by 1% which is a bit of a bitter pill. But all done now and it did not stop me getting employed, so do not worry about it - Perf still makes little sense to me even now.

[garjoyce]

Alright, think i will stick with Bristol then.

Thanks again for your insight!!

[neilia]

So what happened?? Didja go fly?

[sicky]

Sorry Neil, i forgot about this thread. Yes, i flew. Took me out in a Warriro, and it was bloody great. I couldn't stop smiling for days afterwards - he let me do as much as he safely could let me do.

I taxi'd, took off, flew, and made the whole approach, obviousley under guidance but it was such a great feeling.

I was excited/nervous/trying to take in as much as i could about what i was doing, trying to notice when to do things, and take in a bit of scenery all at the same time. At least i didn't have to use the radio amongst all that :E

I felt really comfortable with the flying though, i'd like to know his honest opinion as to how well he thought i did, although a few lessons would be better for that.

I'm busy trying to sort out an application for FTE amongst applying for sponsorship schemes. Can't make my mind up if i can afford to apply for the Thomas Cook scheme at Oxford though. I was recommended to go all the way at an integrated school rather thna do my PPL first though, due to training techniques amongst other reasons.

So thanks for asking, i took your advice and i'm glad i did, so thanks for that too.

[Groundloop]

"Integrated" courses used to mean that the groundschool and flight training was integrated ie you did some ground school and then some flying. At some schools it alternated daily.

Gradually to cut costs, especially with outsourcing early flight training overseas for better weather, the ground school and flying got more and more separated. Now (at least at OAT and Cabair - not sure about FTE) you do ALL the groundschool before going near an aircraft. Therefore most integrated courses are no longer integrated! Just expensive.

[sicky]

Yeah FTE does the first part of their groundschool in one big chunk before any flying, then they merge the second part with some flying

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

The exams for Mass and balance, performance, and flightplanning are they considered as one exam?

For example is possible to pass performance and flightplannning but have to resit mass and balance?

[Mercenary Pilot]

With the JAA ATPL they are 3 separate exams so yes, it is possable to pass 2 and re-sit the other.

With the CPL exams, they are combined into 1 exam (I guess this is where the confusion has arose)

:ok:

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

Ok thanks, One last question is Aiframe & systems, Electrics, powerplant and instrumentation also considered as individual exams???

I am pretty confident with all subjects except mass and balance and flight planning. Performance is easy just alot to remember. Any tricks on these two??

[JetSetJ]

Hi there,

Airframes and systems, electrics and powerplant are considered as one exam. Instruments is also considered as a seperate exam with approximately 40% of the questions are on the pressure instruments, gyros, ins, adc, fms and efis. The other 60% of questionsis warnings and recordings, autoflight and engine instrumentation.

Hope this helps

JetSetJ:ok:

[Callsign Kilo]

"I am pretty confident with all subjects except mass and balance and flight planning. Performance is easy just alot to remember. Any tricks on these two?"

I would have put this the other way about, saying m&b and planning were a little bit less taxing on the brain than performance!! But maybe thats just me!

And remember, never say anything is easy until you have sat and passed the exam! It's good that you feel confident, but don't take the exam for granted, it could just catch you out on the day!

Good luck!

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

ok, thanks alot for the information.

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

I am going to try to do all 14 exams during 4 days :}

Has anyone tried this and how did it go.

Before anyone starts flaming at me I have previous knowledge (full FAA ATPL) and I am also using Bristols online database which should contain all exam questions possible since I am doing it in Spain and they still use the old version of the exams.

The exams are in September and I am brushing up now. I usually get 80-85%. The only subjects that I have problem with is Mass & balance and fligh planning. It so easy to make a misstake in these subjects.

[JetSetJ]

Hi there!

:eek:You have my upmost respect sir and i wish you the very best of luck!!

I'm doing 7 in August and am really starting to get apprehensive!!

All the best for your exams matey and as i've said the very best of luck:)

JetSetJ:ok:

[Mercenary Pilot]

Jimmy

You will be absolutly exhausted! I have never heard of anyone doing this before.

Best of luck though, let us know how you get on. :ok:

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

Yes I know. Its really not that hard. You just need to remember a lot of info. Its not like you need to be a rocket scientist. Although with out good books and the question banks I would not be able to do this. I really want to recommend Bristol question banks and Oxford MET CBT this is "a must have", Also the free site www.wiljam.com with notes is really good. He has really good graphs of the CAS-TAS-MACH relation.
Fortunately I have photographic memory, although I am starting to run out of film :}




The hard part is that I live in a beautiful Island on the Aegean sea with lots of beautiful beaches and with beautiful girls on them...............but I can not enjoy that.............I need to study airlaw :ugh:


EDIT: I am also trying to quit smoking. I really think I picked the wrong time for that :-)

[menikos]

An Algerian guy did it, he sat and passed all the exams so maybe you can do it.

[GUARD]

Gosh Jimmy The Big Greek,

Thanks for taking time out from your Herculian schedule.....

JUST TO TELL US ALL HOW FANTASTIC YOU ARE.

You've got to be kidding!:yuk:

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

I am far from fantastic, trust me.
The reason I made this thread was because I had some questions and I also wanted to know if someone else had done the ATPL exams the way I am doing it and I just wanted to know how it went.

Now if you have a problem with this GUARD.........Then you can go and kiss my Greek Hairy Herculian :mad:


Edit: Doing the exam the way I am is stupid and I would rather split them in to two modules but since I live in Greece and I want to save some money on air tickets and hotel I will try to do all the exams in one row. I am not doing it to show off.

[GUARD]

Just messing with you Jimmy.

Good luck with your exams.

Guard:)

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

Thank you GUARD, I will for sure need it :ok:

[Unusual Attitude]

Hi there, which school now does this in 3 sittings ??

I originally did my APTL's in 2 sittings DL but cause I only got a CPL and no IR within 3 years I have to resit the whole lot all over again :-(

Fitting 3 modules around work sounds like a much better plan than 2.....

[Mercenary Pilot]

Cranfield Aviation Training School do it in 3 stages.

[2close]

Atlantic Flight Training at Coventry does it in 3 modules.

www.flyaft.com

HTH

2close

[kui2324]

UA Glasgow Nautical College do it in three modules - might be a bit closer to home!

[Aim High]

Go for the three stage option, it makes perfect sense. Remember as well as six sittings, you are only allowed four attempts at any one subject. So if you have sat all exams by the third sittings, that still leaves three sittings for resits, that still gives you the maximum number of attempts(four) at any subject. So you will not lose anything by using the third sitting, you will only increase your chances of passing all at first attempt.

For the record I did distance learning on a three stage ground school and got every subject at first attempt

This is exactly why CATS developed the 3 stage course
Only take exams when you are ready
It costs more money and time if you fail

[portsharbourflyer]

Aim High,

Just to clarify as you had quoted my previous post, CATS is where I completed my Ground School.

[Alex Whittingham]

I really think it would be more honest if Aim High said in his profile "My name is Stuart Smith, I own CATS groundschool in Cranfield". It is a custom on this site that FTO owners and employees should identify themselves when commenting on matters related to their business. Old lags know you, Stuart, most people browsing this thread wouldn't. CATS is a really nice school, I don't see why you aren't more transparent, you can afford to be.

[hpcock]

Just for the record I studied at CATS and found their standard of training to be 1st class. I have to take my hat off to Stuart and all the other staff there. They have adopted a new take on training which seems to blow away most educational institutions. Having been through from school to University my impressions of CATS & their 3 stage course is outstanding.

The course is so well structured, that it puts you at ease and takes away the rigours of the so called "Problems encountered when studying for an ATPL"

OK, so it generally takes approx 2 months more to complete the 3 stage course, but in the grand scale of things it makes much more sense. This was reflected by everyone in my class achieving a 100% pass rate on 2 of 3 stages, and a pass rate of above 90% on our last stage.

I'm not here to blow sunshine up CATS's a$$, but just to say I think that 3 stages is a much better option, & if I had to do it again, i'd have no hesitation in going there again. :ok:

[littco]

Hpcock.

Have you done both a 2 stage course and a 3 stage course?

Just wondered why you think the 3 stage is a better option?

[hpcock]

Hi Littco

Only done one course, 3 stg at CATS. Passed 13/14 1st time. Refer to Aim High's post; Says it all. 3 stg gives you more flexibility if you do require re-sits.

Spoke to a few students from another school at Cranfield, who were on 2 stage course, and were finding it pretty hard. Don't know if that was the caliber of students, or the lack of decent training they were getting.

If you are still to make up your mind on where to go & what course to do, suggest you give CATS a call & speak to Stuart (HoT). Their wbsite gives you the lowdown www.cranfieldaviation.co.uk (http://www.cranfieldaviation.co.uk)

Hope this helos

HPC

[littco]

Hpcock,

No I was just interested, I'm about too sit mod2 exams in september,

I did the 1st Module in 8 weeks with Bristol and passed all 8 exams and have been doing mod2 for about the same amount of time. It's been hard work doing the course in 2 modules, and in such a short space of time, but I don't think it would be any easier if I had done it in 3 sittings.

I just found Aimhighs comments rather obnoxious to say that it makes sense to do it in three sittings, and then to find out he works for CATS kind of explains why.

Having not done a 3 stage course I can't comment, but I can say that doing it over 2 stages is probably alot harder, for the simple reason you have to learn more in one go. If you are competent in your ability and can work well and structured on your own via DL then I see no reason why you shouldn't/can't do it in 2 sittings. However I can see the benefits for some in doing it in 3 sittings.

The only thing I would suggest before going with a school is getting there pass marks for past students, if they are as good as they claim then I'm sure they would be more than happy to promote this. I'm just happy to be another pass statistic on the BGS books, and if I pass the mod2 exams as well as I did the mod1 I'll be very very happy..

[Mercenary Pilot]

Littco

Again I find your comments judgemental and naive! First of all you say pilots who have to resit the ATPL exams should "take a hint" that they are not cut out for it and now you accuse Aim High of being obnoxious for explaining why he developed a 3 stage course at his establishment.

If you actually took time to read it properly, all he said was

"This is exactly why CATS developed the 3 stage course
Only take exams when you are ready
It costs more money and time if you fail
The rest of it was a quote from an earlier post...hardly obnoxious! :confused:

One thing studying over 3 stages may give you is more time to actually digest the subjects properly but to be honest with the wide spread question spotting (read that as CHEATING) the whole system is rather pointless now and is just a money making opportunity for the CAA. They are obviously not going to do anything about it so the only fair option is a switch to the FAA one combined paper with public question bank style exam.

I applaud both CATS and BGS for having a reputation for getting the students through and at the same time providing them with excellent study materials and notes. Also both of these schools have computerised question banks which equals the field. No longer do we have a 2 tier system of those who waltz out of the exam hall after 10 mins with a guaranteed pass and a copy of the illegal question bank and those who actually had to study like a bar steward to get through.

The only thing I would suggest before going with a school is getting there pass marks for past students, if they are as good as they claim then I'm sure they would be more than happy to promote this

CATS tagline always used to be (and I presume it still is) "The school with 100% pass rates", they have been trading of this claim for years so I would guess that is "more than happy to promote".

Anyways, this is going totally off thread....

cantw82fly

You just need to decide what’s going to be best for you. Can you absorb information like a sponge? Or do you need that little bit extra time to take in the facts?

You have already decided to do fulltime groundschool, why not post who you are considering and see what comments you get about the schools (remembering its that the comments all be at least slightly bias as the chances a student has been to both schools you mention is unlikely) or use the search function. Most schools have been discussed on these boards. :ok:

[littco]

Mercenary Pilot.

Sorry but when some says and I quote " Go for the three stage option, it makes perfect sense" implies that to sit them in 2 stages is anything but sensible!

That to me is objectionable as it is simply not the case, which in my mind in obnoxious.

[Mercenary Pilot]

Littco

Go for the three stage option, it makes perfect sense. Remember as well as six sittings, you are only allowed four attempts at any one subject. So if you have sat all exams by the third sittings, that still leaves three sittings for resits, that still gives you the maximum number of attempts(four) at any subject. So you will not lose anything by using the third sitting, you will only increase your chances of passing all at first attempt.

For the record I did distance learning on a three stage ground school and got every subject at first attempt
Was originally posted by portsharbourflyer on 3rd March 2006 22:33, Aim High is quoting him.

Portsharbourflyer is just expressing his opinion be it wrong or right. IMHO Go to whatever school trains you properly, gets you through and treats you like a customer/friend and not a cash cow/subordinate....which sadly is fairly common in this countries flight training industry.

[hpcock]

Hey Littco

I'm glad things are going well for you at BGS. Looks like you're doin something right.

I think what it bolis down to, is what suits each individual. 3 stgs suited me, 2 suits you. But to say doing it over 2 stages is harder is something I don't agree with. I can imagine that the absorption of knowledge is far greater, but that does not make it harder. It's how you structure your time and efforts into the learning process that makes it hard or easy for an individual. I learnt that at Uni, & when I was presented with the choice of a 2 or 3 stg groundschool, 3 made sense to me, as it gave me that little bit of breathing space.

In my experience, standing outside exam centres, I happened to see guys whom I knew were on 2 stg courses, going over & over feedback qu's, prior to an exam. I was in a far more luxurious position of not having to "Panic Revise" one hr prior to an exam, as the 3 stg course had given me the time to absorb all the knowledge I needed.

Needless to say I'm sure they all did well, but looking at the bigger picture, what do airlines want - People who know their stuff, & can construct answers based upon knowledge, or somebody who can't remember whether the ans was A or B?

Sorry to go on for so long, but I just felt I should make myself heard on this matter.

Good luck with the rest of your course & hope you pass the lot 1st time

HPC :ok:

[littco]

Hpcock,

I can definately see the benefits of doing 3 stages over 2 stages.

Are you saying when it comes to Airline interviews those on a 3 stage have probably learnt more than those on a 2 stage, Unless I mis read your post, which I seem to be getting quite good at :bored:

[potkettleblack]

Surely when evaluating distance learning a big factor in passing or failing is how long you are going to beaver away at home getting up to speed on things before you attend the brush up course.

I can't see that 2 or 3 modules really comes into it unless you can somehow compare experiences between different people at different schools who studied the same amount and had the same intellect and aptitude to study. In reality this is impossible so again it will be one of those things that is down to the individual and your own personal circumstances.

Rather than the number of modules I would be more interested in checking how the schools split the subjects as there is a significant amout of overlap in certain areas. POF and Perf are two good examples.

[hpcock]

Hey Littco

Not at all. I'm just going on experince. At a recent interview that I attended, The caliber was based upon ATPL style qu's, leaning towards making you think about the answers. I'm not saying a 2 stg candidate would have failed, but again going by my previous observation at the exam centre, the qu spotting mentality would have left you in some hot water.

Again all i'm saying is that I feel I personally had more of a knowledge Base, rather than a knowledge bank.

I passed the interview & subsequently have been offered a position with this particular airline. However, the interviewer stressed that he was particularly impressed with the fact that I had seen a somewhat different perspective to certain qu's, ones that I know other candidates found difficult to ans. Not because they did'nt know the exact ans, but by their own admission , "They wern't taught it in enough detail, or did not have time to look into it deep enough" 3 out of the 5 candidates were from a 2 stage course. I will not mention their school. It maybe coincidence, but myself & the other 3 stage girl were chosen.

BTW examples of the qu's were:

1) What is the difference between your a/c wing & that of the 747?
2) High bypass engines are used on commercial airplanes because....?
3) How would you teach a student about Vmca?
4) Tell me about GPS, is it better than IRS for navigation info & why?
5) you are in a 3 eng a/c going from xxxx to yyyy. You lose an eng after take-off. Would you rtn to an IFR minimum approach at xxxx, or continue to yyyy, where it is CAVOK?
6) Why does our airline use the CFM-56 engine? Also describe the difference between our engines and those used from 20-30 yrs ago.

As you can see, the type of qu being asked, is not looking for a stright fwd yes/no, a or b answer. Its with this in mind that I feel the extra time allowed to me on a 3 stg course, gave me the confidence to ans these questions witha degree of authority & accuracy, again, due to the time I had to absorb the relavent knowledge.

In closing I am not knocking the 2 stage system. Infact I know many people whom have gone onto great thing since completing a 2 stg course, but as I reiterrated in the 1st place, it's horses for courses!!

Good luck & hopefully see you up there soon

HPC :)

[cantw82fly]

I really started something here didn't I?

Thought it was going to be a simple question!

Anyway, have decided to do a 3 module full-time course - thanks for all the advice guys, and sorry to have started the arguments!

[hpcock]

No argument started mate, just a bit of friendly banter. I for one are glad you are doing the 3 stg course. Pls PM me to let me know where & when you are starting. I'd be interested to know, if you don't mind.

HPC

[hedges81]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone knows the following:

How many questions are there in the

Radio Nav, General Nav, Instrumentation, VRF comms and IFR comms ATPL exams.

Cheers.

[asuweb]

Air Law = 75
Airframe/System/Powerplant = 76
Instruments = 56
Mass & Balance = 22
Performance = 34
Flight Planning = 56
Human Performance = 47
Met = 90
Gen Nav = 54
Radio Nav = 59
Ops = 50
PofF = 44
VFR / IFR Comms = 23 (each paper)

[potkettleblack]

Note also that in many of the exams there are 2,3 or even 4 markers on offer which can make or break you. Generally anything that takes a bit of jiggery pokery on your calculator should give you more than 1 mark. GNAV will be a prime example so make sure that you can do PET/PSR with your eyes closed as they should be worth a few marks at least.

[asuweb]

make sure that you can do PET/PSR with your eyes closed

But how do you read the question if your eyes are closed? :}

Only messing, very valid point. All this study must be affecting my sanity :ugh:

[bluepeely]

Allright all

just out of curiosoty are all the questions multiple guess or written???
And if they are multiple choice is it the usual thing of theres always one answer thats way off.
Please help cos i can fly like a dream but its a while since i did an exam

[asuweb]

They are all MCQs. Some qu's have some answers which are obviously wrong, others aren't quite as straight forward. There are quite a few traps to fall in to.

Have a look at some feedback and you'll soon see the format.

[potkettleblack]

The bristol ground school website has some examples of actual JAA questions albeit they might be out of date a bit now. Look under their forums and I think there is a sticky.

[asuweb]

I think this may be the thread that potkettleblack is thinking of: http://www.jals.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=24

[bluepeely]

Cheers for that :ok:
that a good help
BP

[edymonster]

Just a quick question are electronic calculators allowed in the ATPL exams or do you always have to use your wizz wheel?

[asuweb]

Scientific, non-programmable calclators are allowed in the exam.

Electronic flight computer are not allowed.

[degothia]

Hello!
MnB isnt that hard, but as you say Jimmy it is easy to make a mistake. To eliminate the mistakes it is realy good to know the load sheats end mass moving/adding-subtracting formulas. I dont know if my method is alowed but I used a "over-head" film with a thin pen (with water based ink) on the load sheats. That way you just whipe off the figures from the old problem and write down the new one...
I hope you make it in one sitting. Im doing the exams three at the time, so I have been doing this forever and it feels like it will go on for eternity...
D

[CptSilva]

Hi everyone!

I would like to know if anyone can tell me where can i do a Pre-Exam revision course for the ATPL´s.
My intentions are to do in the UK because unfortunally i cant do it in the school i´m enroll in the US.
And i would like something very cheap if possible.



Thanks in advanced,

[Jusdoit]

If anybody can do it, you can!! After the dust settles, I'd like to know where you think the money spent, was best spent. :ok:

[dartagnan]

I did 2 sessions, failed 2 subjects on the 14.

I think it is possible to make the entire ATPL in 1 session and get a good grade.easier than before with databank online, CD rom,...

[J1969]

Hi folks I'm just starting off on my flying career and have to do the initial theory exams, just wondered if anyone has any tips and or where to find sample papers to help me out.

Cheers J

[EGAC_Ramper]

Get learning the CRP-5 YESTERDAY and I'm not joking. If your slick with it you'll have no problems come the Gen Nav exam.:ok:

Obviously also its a lot of hard work but do make sure you take time out from studies. Although it was a hard 6months of my life I did end up enjoying the whole experience.

[mbd]

http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/Explanatory%20Note%20-%20Consultation%20on%20revised%20TK%20Learning%20Objectives% 20connected%20to%20NPA-FCL-25.pdf

This document states new learning objectives were finalized July 1st and will be implemented January 1st 2007. The "final" versions are posted on the JAA web site as word documents. http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/jar-fcl_consultation.html

Does anyone have information on the implication of these changes?

Does this imply a new exam question bank will be produced by the JAA for these new objectives?

[potkettleblack]

Here is my take on it and based on a chat a few months ago with my ground instructor....I think it unlikley that they will start afresh given the horrors of when they first rolled out the ground school all those years ago. Also not many people seem to appreciate that the CQB is constantly being updated with new questions added and others removed on a monthly basis. Each of the JAA countries has responsibility for certain subjects and will submit new questions for inclusion. This is the principal reason why the old Italian/Spanish feedback which you can get on ebay is out of date and not worth the paper it is written on. Hence why so many of us have gone for the Bristol online database which is as up to date as you can get for current feedback.

I wouldn't worry to much. If you get a set of manuals from someone like Bristol and use the database then you should fly through. Give them a call and see what their view is and if they plan on issuing new manuals based on the revised learning objectives. My guess would be just a few addendums here and there to bring them into line.

[umbongo]

i'm about to start a course, so this 1st of january date will fall right in the middle of it. The first set of exams starts on 1st Jan in fact (perfect timing!) Does that mean there is no effect for me, as i'll start before the implementation date, or that it will be a huge mess...

[RVR800]

As stated above the last time they did this it was a disaster. I would leave well alone until the new question bank is leaked and the pass rates return to the all time high that they are currently at

I guess one reason they are doing it is because the % pass rates are too high and people in the exam delivery business have got bored with the same old questions. It will have little to do with what people really need to know.

[potkettleblack]

I would say it is more to do with the decision by committe approach in line with how Europe is governed these days. If you give these nameless people the opportunity to tweak this or adjust that then they will dutifully go off in that direction and of course it keeps them in a job at the same time.

Of course we couldn't have a US type system where we make the database open access and rely on candidates displaying their knowledge of the subject through a tortuous oral exam. No that would be copying and then the civil servants will be out of work.:ugh:

[Londonboy29]

Dear All,
I have a question on the exams that I was hoping someone could help me with.
My current plan is to do all my written exams first, PPL & ATPL etc, (hopefully during 2007), and then do all of my flying.
Would any of you know if this is possible??
Many thanks in advance.
LB

[Blinkz]

Nope, afraid you can't do this on the modular route. To do the ATPL exams you need to have an ICAO PPL, and so must have done the PPL exams and the PPL flying.

If you go integrated then yes you can. Integrated you won't do a PPL as such and will spend the first 6 months doing all the ATPL exams before doing all the flying.

[badboy raggamuffin]

Anyone know how many questions there are in the following exams? Where on the CAA website can such info be found?

-Operational Proceedures
-flight planning
-AGK
-Met
-HPL

Cheers.

[JetSetJ]

Hi there!!

-Operational Proceedures- Approx 50
-flight planning - Approx 56
-AGK - Approx 76
-Met - Approx 90
-HPL - Approx 47

Best of luck with your exams, i'll be sitting FP and OPs next week:{

JetSetJ

[MineDog]

I remember to have seen on some website (think it was Bristol Groundschool) a few weeks ago that you can take the ATPL(A) exams 2 subjects @ a time (total of 7 'sittings' ) But can not find this anymore, at least not on the Bristol site, where it says: 2 sittings of 7 subjects each...
Any help?
Thanks,
MD

[ITFC1]

Afrriad not, i think the most sittings is 6 with a maximum of 4 in any subject, unless its changed in the last couple of months

[potkettleblack]

Do a search on LASORS either here or on the CAA website. Everything you want to know about the exams including sittings, dates etc is contained in there.

[mcgoo]

ITFC1 is correct, you get 4 attempts at each exam with a maximum of 6 sittings.

[helicopter-redeye]

.. and I think they are JAR exams. The CAA national exams were the ones before JAR came along and brightened up our empty lives.

h-r;)

[2close]

Why do holders of JAA issued FRTOLs have to undertake the VFR and IFR CPL / ATPL Comms exams?

We're not issued with any new radio operators licence and the exams are hardly of any greater standard than the original RT written.

I can understand holders of non-JAA licences having to take the exams but not JAA FRTOL holders.

Also, I understand that FAA licence holders should, strictly speaking, undertake the JAA RT written and practical exams before operating an aircraft in UK airspace but is it ever done in reality?

For that matter, do FAA or other non-JAA PPL holders undertaking the JAA CPL have to undergo a practical RT test before licence issue or do the authorities issue the licence purely on the basis of having passed the writtens?

Confused and bit p'ed off at having to fork out £120 for two exams for no understandable reason.

2close

[BlueRobin]

Agreed. There should be one paper and the new ATPL learning objectives should include more on IFR departure clearances.

[Farrell]

Why do holders of JAA issued FRTOLs have to undertake the VFR and IFR CPL / ATPL Comms exams?

More money....?

[BlueRobin]

More like because X country wanted it in the interests of completeness and so were placated. :E

Do we really need 90 questions in the Met paper? :uhoh:

[paco]

The reason it is there in the first place is because you have a cut-down version of the amateur radio licence, but it's an interesting point you raise. Next time I speak to someone in authority I will ask.

phil

[speedrestriction]

In the UK the FRTOL is based on CAP 413. As far as I know the JAR Comms exams are based on ICAO requirements. There are quite a number of differences between the two.

[che turner]

Hi al
l just a small thing to put out there for you lot that have done the atpl,s ,
In my ppl exams I was aloud to take in the formulas for questions is this aloud by the CAA board or not

Thanks loads :ok:

[Whirlygig]

I don't believe it is allowed to take in formulae for either PPL or ATPL!

Cheers

Whirls

[Callsign Kilo]

At ATPL level I'm affraid the only things that you may bring in to the exam is your passport (always required for ID purposes), a calculator, plotting equipment (when required), CRP-5 (when required) and your Jeppesen student manual for the Flight Planning exam. The CAA supply all CAP's (for use in Mass & Balance, Performance and Flight Planning) and even give you a crappy pencil with a rubber on the end of it to use! Everything else will have to be stored upstairs in the old grey matter!

[ATPLTrainee]

Indeed, not even as though you can scibble on the blank pages of your passport or something, at silsoe i was politely reminded i wasn´t allowed the case for my CRP-5 on the table, we came up with so many possible ways of sneaking things in but were always far too scared about getting caught, try dismantling your CRP-5 and writing in pencil on the bit that can be seen only when the plastic slide is removed :op or club together with your friends and learn morse then you can tap out the question numbers and answers, we´re just a few of the possibilities we came up with, as it was we all just worked hard and learnt the stuff, which is really the whole idea. :op

[helicopter-redeye]

I remember one chap at Silsoe who, on sitting down in the exam hall, started jotting formulae from the grey matter onto his rought working paper. :8

Within seconds, the exam police had fallen on him and removed his rough paper. "No writing till the exam starts, laddie" :ooh:

For eveybody else, there is synchronised coughing ... :yuk:

h-r;)

[2close]

Talking of 'cheating', during one of my exams at Gatwick (Nov 06), having finished, checked and double checked the paper, I was within the last few minutes so couldn't leave the room and was just day-dreaming away merrily when I realised I was staring hard blindly at the exam paper of my neighbour who was still scrawling away.

My ticker missed a few beats as I realised what I was doing and looked at the invigilator who was staring straight at me and not in a loving, caring way!!

Even if I had seen what was on his paper or even if I'd realised I'd made a mistake in a completely unrelated sense I did not dare touch my paper or even move a muscle for that matter until the papers were collected.

2close

[coodem]

Just about to embark my ATPL's and putting together a timetable for myself. But thought I would better check something, as it dont look right

I intend to do my groundschool with CATS stage 1, week comencing 17 September, then sit the exams week commencing 1 October

The groundschool covers 6 subjects HPL, AL, OPS, VFR, IFR and MET

I wish to do all the above exams in the 1st week of Oct, but this means I would have to take AL, HPL, VFR and IFR in 1 day, is there enough time. Is this the way most people do it, How long are the exams

Thanking you all in advance

[Grass strip basher]

Yes it is possible, check the CAA website for exam times as they are published on there

[Adj]

Yes it is possible to do all 14 exams in one week!
None of the exams overlap - some are simply mornings and others afternoons.
If you decide to do 4 in one day then you will simply be doing these back to back for the duration of the day.
Don't be in a rush to get them done - its far more important that you pass with a decent mark.

all the best

[JUST-local]

coodem

I did all the Thursday exams Law, HPL, VFR & IFR Comms, Law & HPL in the morning and the comms in the afternoon after a well needed break for lunch.

I also did a couple of other heavy days before that with no problems, you just need to know your stuff and have had pleanty of practise with the feedback questions.

I assume your already studying and the two weeks before the exams will be brush up stuff, you also need the application form in and the large fee by then, I'm sure CATS will arrange it all.

Good Luck.

[coodem]

While on the subject, Do you think CATS recomended study time is accurate? There seems to be so much to take in and yet they seem to think only 15 hours per week is needed.

I take you learn a lot while at the ground school.

What are/did most you guys do?

[JUST-local]

I did not use CATS but can tell you it took me a lot more than 15 hours per week.

A few examples of people I know.

Friend A. Studied part time after work weekends etc. using Bristol GS and completed first time passes in all subjects in less than 4 months.

Friend B. Studied full time at home using Bristol GS and completed with first time passes in 4 months.

Friend C. Started part time with some company that went bust, he had already sat and past some of them, changed school (CATS) got going again failed a couple, re-sat passed some more, ran out of time after passing 13, started again with CATS and passed them all in the end took about three years. :D

I have loads more examples but I'm sure you get the picture, I had to give myself a massive kick up the @rse! I'm glad I did.
If you are struggling getting going you have to make some changes to your life and be realistic, you need to cover the material and stop worrying about 15 hours a week or whatever! It will take what it takes :ugh: :mad:

JL.................

[Turbine King]

I took OPS today and if I didnt pass it ill eat my notes!
It seemed all the questions were on their website

Spent ages studying as well

Did I do more than 15 h
I think I must have done but dont really know its a bit of a blur
Some subjects less eg VCOM and ICOM
Thursday does not look daunting at all
I expect to finish most early

Many nights did not do anything
Then had bursts of study at weekends

Met tomorrow so must go

Good luck coodem
and if you dont feel ready just take longer

[ATPLTrainee]

I'm pretty sure you can't get the actual CAA papers but there are alot of question banks around which have the exam questions (or close enough) in. At the end of the exam lots of schools collect "Feedback" from the students. If each student remembers a question they can easily get the content of the exam. Bristol GS has a full database of past questions, might want to have a look at that.

[Greg2041]

Noted with thanks although the original question I asked seems to have vanished from this Forum!!!!!!

[vectis lady]

i was just wondering how important is it to do the relivant exams just after doing the brush up course? only asking because im going to find it really hard to have 3 weeks off work all in one go, i was thinking that for the harder subjects gnav,met it would be best to hit them straight away but for easier ones such as comms and HPL could these just be done a few months later ?

im just trying to plan everything out before i start so i dont have probs later on

any advise would be great

[OpenCirrus619]

Would I be correct in assuming you are doing a distance learning course? If so I would guess the 3 weeks "brush up" are split into either 3 x 1 week or 2 x 1.5 weeks - at the end of each "module".

Does that help / make it more manageable?

OC619

[vectis lady]

yeah im going to be distance learning with bristol, according to the blurb on there website the brush-up is 2 weeks and then the exams striaght after, so 3 weeks total at the end of each module, i was just wondering if its totally neccisary to do all the exams striaght after?

the total amt of time isnt the prob its just having 3 weeks off all at once

[helicopter-redeye]

You can take the exams once you have done the BUC. Its a matter of choice but I found it 'easier' to have a short break after the course and take the exams the next month (time to absorb the info, fill in the gaps and also have a brainrest)

[dom462]

Have a look at cranfields atpl course. Three modules with a one week brush up after each. It's cheaper too!

[lindbergh]

Hello,
I am studying for the tests and need to get in contact with someone who has done the JAA ATPL written tests recently. How close are the Bristol Question bank? Please send PM.
Thanks for the help!!

[stio]

I've been told that the UK CAA and IAA have a reciprocal agreement whereby each authority will accept atpl theory exam passes from the other authority. I haven't found any reference to this on either authority's website. Does anyone know if this is definitely true and if so can you reference the relevant document? Thanks

[Alex Whittingham]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=197642&highlight=reciprocal+iaa

[2close]

This is the reply I received from a licensing officer at the IAA:

Dear XXX,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Under the Bi-lateral agreement set up between the UK CAA and the IAA in October 2005, should you sit and pass all 14 of the JAR ATPL examinations under the auspices of the UK CAA and intend to complete your practical flight training in Ireland, then the IAA will accept your examination results as part of your CPL IR training. Ireland will be the country of licence issue.

Regards

XXX

Aviation Executive
Examination Unit
Tel: 00353 1 6031169
Fax: 00353 1 6777484

[EpsilonVaz]

Hi there,

Today I sat ATPL Mass & Balance. Half way through the exam a gentleman walked in and announced that our scientific calculators we were all using were not allowed. We were made to use the standard windows calculator with no scientific functions. When a student challenged him saying he was wrong he raised his voice claiming "IT IS THE LAW".

As far as I am aware only graphic calculators are forbidden. How are we suppose to do calculations that require trigonomic functions without a scientific calculator? If anyone has any reference I can use or if anyone could tell me I am wrong I would appreciate it.

For reference the calculator I was using is a Casio fx-350MS. http://world.casio.com/edu/product/eu/closeup/up_fx350ms.html

The (sorry excuse for a) JAA State was Greece.

Regards,

EpsilonVaz

[Evilbob]

The exam guidance notes provided by the CAA say that only non programable, non alphanumeric calculators are acceptable.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/17/srg_fcl_examination_briefing.pdf

Since it's JAA theory, I assume Greece works to the same rules?

[F3]

As far as I recall one was only allowed to use a very basic calculator and tables were provided for the trig. calculations.

[Grass strip basher]

In the UK I believe you are allowed a calculator with trig functions... certainly 99% of people doing the exams at CAA HQ at Gatwick when I was there had calculators capable of doing trig calcs and no one provided any tables to me!

[EpsilonVaz]

One of the Directors of my FTO was hot on the case and sorted it in no time :ok:

Cheers for all your info.

EpsilonVaz