Korean Airlines hiring

[Old&notsobold]

Greetings to Expat KAL pilots, current or past:

I am looking for answers and informed opinions from those in-the-know who have the time and inclination. Any insight would be appreciated.

1. Given the proposed ICAO age-60 standard expected in NOV06, has KAL given any indication that they might raise the hiring age to beyond 60?—any views?

2. What, in general (or as specific as you wish to be) are the terms of the B744 expat captain's contract?

3. How do the days-off and commute-to-base arrangements work out?

4. Are there any hard-and-fast rules regarding back-to-backing of days off?

5. Is this a reasonable place to work in respect of training, flight operations management, flight deck colleagues (smiling faces?), layover hotels, per diems, deadhead travel, family travel, etc.?

6. Safety: How are things in Korean these days? Has there been an improvement over days gone by?

7. Recruiters: What recommendations can you make? I know that everyone and his grandmother recruits for Korean, but do Terms & Conditions vary widely between those offering contracts, or are they much of a muchness? Who would you prefer to work for?—anyone to avoid?

These are broad questions, I realize, but please feel free to provide as much or as little comment as you wish on the above or any other relevant topics, to aid me in decision making.

Thank you in advance.

[maui]

O& NSB

Most importantly question#7

Steer well clear of IAC Pacific. I believe they steal from their employees. Have been run through the Vanuatu Supreme Court and found guilty of witholding money without lawful excuse. Apart from that they lie, cheat and are generally uncooperative. Several of their former employees have large (10,000+) amounts owed to them with little likelehood of recovery.

#1 Talk of increase (63?) but nothing concrete. Wait until after ICAO and USA decisions. Would anticipate a retention of those over 60 but not a recruiting thereof.

#2 Talk to the better contractors get a draft contract. (I am employed through Cambridge Communications and have no complaints)

#3 Extremely well. Days off start and finish at home. Commute on company time. Days off are normally unmolested once allocated.

#4 Technically a problem , but never seems to be.

#5 Light years ahead of where it was 10 years ago. Per diems a bit light on. Staff /family travel, in my experience excellent, but some have issues.

#6 As previous. Some way to go but light years ahead of past.

Several guys have been here over 10 years. Several others have been here before and returned/are returning for a second dose. Does that say anything?

Try it.

Maui

[Old&notsobold]

Maui:

Thanks for your reply - I will steer clear of IAC.

I had been told that Cambridge Comms Ltd is good; I have a phone number and a name, but no email or web address for them. Can you help?

[Towards the back]

Anyone have a link for Cambridge Communications????

Thanks

[captjns]

CAMBRIDGE COMMUNICATIONS LIMITED
1 Castle Street, Castletown, Isle of Man IM9 1LF, British Isles
Tel: +44 (0)1624 824 261 Fax: +44 (0)1624 829 261
Email: [email protected]

Hope that helps

captjns

[Willit Run]

Does anyone know if they are accepting classic captains as direct entry into the -400 or even the 330 or 777??

[captjns]

Unless you are typed on the -400 or 777 I'm afraid not.

[Old&notsobold]

T t B and captjns:

Thanks for the help; I'll drop Cambridge a line.

Has anyone out there had working experience with a KAL recruiting agency, GAP Aviation (out of Texas, I think)?

[maui]

O& NSB

Please let me make it clear.

I referred to IAC Pacific

IAC Pacific is the company I took to court and IAC Pacific is the company to whom I was contracted at that time.

Glad to be of help

Maui

[captjns]

T t B and captjns:

Thanks for the help; I'll drop Cambridge a line.

Has anyone out there had working experience with a KAL recruiting agency, GAP Aviation (out of Texas, I think)?

I am starting to accomplish the preliminaries with GAP. The are arrangin for interviews with captains at the end of October for a November 30 circa class date.

[Old&notsobold]

captjns

Would like to hear what your experience is with GAP as the process proceeds. Good luck.

Maui

No IAC Pacific!

Roger, copy...

Thanks

[Iron Duke]

I have command time on B747-400 and Classic, although I haven't flown the B747 fo 4 years now. Is it worth me paying for an LPC/OPC on the -400 to renew my currrency even though I won't have flown one for nearly 5 years.... or is 5 years perceived by the agencies as just too long ?
I am currently a B757 Captain ..
Many thanks

I.D.

[Payscale]

Interesting thread.

Can anyone shed light on the pay.

Do you pay tax in Korea?

Which European bases are ther on the A333?

Any pension, medical and dental plan?

Many Thanks

Payscale

[captjns]

I have command time on B747-400 and Classic, although I haven't flown the B747 fo 4 years now. Is it worth me paying for an LPC/OPC on the -400 to renew my currrency even though I won't have flown one for nearly 5 years.... or is 5 years perceived by the agencies as just too long ?
I am currently a B757 Captain ..
Many thanks

I.D.

If the contracting company is willing to issue a firm contract than paying for recurrent training on the -400 may be worth the investment.

[captjns]

captjns

Would like to hear what your experience is with GAP as the process proceeds. Good luck.

Thanks

I have had a couple of telephone conversations with Austin Pickens of GAP. He seems to be a stand up guy. GAP is setting up a interview with KAL for me the end of October for an end of November class date.

[captjns]

Interesting thread.

Can anyone shed light on the pay.

Do you pay tax in Korea?

Which European bases are ther on the A333?

Any pension, medical and dental plan?

Many Thanks

Payscale

I received this about 6 months ago. Hope it helps.

KOREAN AIR

CAPTAINS B747-400


TERMS AND CONDITIONS


Bases: LHR / CDG / FRA / AKL / SYD / BNE / LAX / YYZ YVR /JFK / SFO / ORD / ATL / HKG / KUL / BKK

Salary: US$12,000 tax paid per month ($12,160 without insurance) / $8,800 ($8,960) during training. $140 per hour over 75 hrs / month (paid off-shore)

Per Diem: US$2 to US$4 per hr / varies per destination

Days Off: 9 continuous days per month at nominated home
Base / plus commuting days (add 2 days leave = 11 continuous days per month)

Annual Leave: 2 days per month (24 days per annum) / taken monthly or up to 7 days together in any 1 month

Sick leave: 14 days per annum

Travel: Business class to/from home base each month

4 x confirmed economy/subload business class
roundtrip FOC per year for captain/spouse and
children (no upper age limit for captain’s children)

6 x On Line ZED Fare (90%) or 50% (confirmed) on KAL network for captain and family per year

Interline tickets as per KAL employees



Accommodation: Quality hotel accommodation and transport provided in ICN and throughout network.

Insurance: Excellent Loss of Income of GBP£520 per week for up to 2 years (Lloyds of London) paid after 14 days if unable to perform captain’s duties with KAL.

Personal Accident/Life Cover of GBP£52,000

Comprehensive world wide Medical (including Medivac) and Travel Insurance

Joining Bonus: $3,000 paid to captain after successful completion of line training / line check

Korean Tax: Captain’s Korean Tax paid by CCL (Korean tax credits apply in several countries)

Bank Transfer Fees: All bank transfer fees paid by CCL

Annual COL Increase: An annual Cost of Living increase, based on the
US index, will be paid to all captains every year that KAL are profitable (2.7% paid in 2005).

Early Resignation: Korean Air apply a US$15,000 penalty payment as an offset against training costs, to any captain who leaves voluntarily within the first 12 months of service. After the first year, 3 months written notice is required for contract termination.

[Payscale]

Thanks a lot. Good info

Payscale :)

[gapaviation]

http://www.gapaviation.com/koreanair.html

[Payscale]

Thanks again. Where does one live in Seoul? rented apartment or Hotac on the company?

[Samuel Adams]

Where we stay in Korea:
http://incheon.regency.hyatt.com/hyatt/hotels/index.jsp

[Ready]

GapAviation, tell us what's going on concerning the a330 hiring?
Heard it's cancelled!
Thanks!

[Wangja]

Where we stay in Korea:
http://incheon.regency.hyatt.com/hyatt/hotels/index.jsp

A very nice hotel but it's terribly, terribly quiet around there.

[744cargo]

captjns

Do you or anyone else know more about the lifestyle enjoyed by the Korean Air expats. Specifically the 17 days on duty, how much flying and away from base are the Korean Air expats doing? Where does the 747 fly to? What are the duty regs for flying over 8/10/12 hours flying time? How do they crew these flights? Any other info would be appreciated!

744cargo

[captjns]

captjns

Do you or anyone else know more about the lifestyle enjoyed by the Korean Air expats. Specifically the 17 days on duty, how much flying and away from base are the Korean Air expats doing? Where does the 747 fly to? What are the duty regs for flying over 8/10/12 hours flying time? How do they crew these flights? Any other info would be appreciated!744cargo

I wish I could tell you more... but I believe contractual terms are being revised somewhat... as was related to me by one of the contracting agencies I spoke to last week.

[gapaviation]

GapAviation, tell us what's going on concerning the a330 hiring?
Heard it's cancelled!
Thanks!

Hi Ready,
I have not recieved word that it is cancelled but there has not been any announcement for when they will conduct interviews at this time. Their main focus has been on 744 and 777 captains and they are currently ramping up for 737NG captains as well before year end.

Hope that helps.

[Old&notsobold]

Captjns

I note that you are going through GAP for your interview, yet the contract terms you posted are those apparently provided by CCL. Are the terms of the GAP contract the same as the CCL contract?

O&NSB

[NG_Kaptain]

Would Korean consider A340 pilots for the A330 fleet. My company is shutting down at year end and looks like the long haul pilots will be sent packing. We have 20 captains and 19 copilots, most of us have 737 type ratings and all were also on the MD83.

[NG_Kaptain]

The company I work for is shutting down and we are all looking for jobs. The Airbus crew are all ex 737NG, L1011 and MD83.
I've flown all the above types but am a bit uncomfortable on the bread line.:sad: Quiero Volar

[ZQA297/30]

But wont they need the A340 folks when they get their A330s? Or is that off.
BTW you forgot the DC-9-50 rating.
And DC-6B with TTAS! :ok:

[NG_Kaptain]

And TFI, Avros and 138's/320's

[Togalk]

............how easily it goes off topic.................

[LocaliserAlive]

Would Korean consider A340 pilots for the A330 fleet. My company is shutting down at year end and looks like the long haul pilots will be sent packing. We have 20 captains and 19 copilots, most of us have 737 type ratings and all were also on the MD83.

So, does anyone know if they would hire A340 captains on the A330 at KAL?:confused:

Thanks for any info

Loc.

[Willit Run]

Are the A-340 and the 330 not a common type rating?? I would send my stuff in. The worst they are going to say is "NO". From what I hear, they are fairly desperate.

[fatbus]

you need to do a CCQ 340 to 330

[NG_Kaptain]

you need to do a CCQ 340 to 330
Thanks for the info :)

[Togalk]

I have never dealt with a recruiting agency, so this might be a silly question, but, does the pay differ depending on which company does the hiring, and is it possible to be hired by Korean itself?

[maui]

#1 A bit
#2 No

M

[joye]

do you have any infos on the kal ng roster ?
From what I understand from Gap and the previous thread you have 9 RDO + 2 LVE+1 SICK per month
What about the 17 days in Korea?
Are these 17 days on?
If no could you put your RD or other DO with the RDO?
thanks for the help

[jack747]

Hi. I heard about that CCL , but do you know any link or address to find them ?


Captjns

I note that you are going through GAP for your interview, yet the contract terms you posted are those apparently provided by CCL. Are the terms of the GAP contract the same as the CCL contract?

O&NSB

[LOU2]

[email protected]

Cheers

[NG_Kaptain]

Took myself out of the game, got offered a job in the Sand Pit :).

[4PW's]

Wonder if those in the know might assist with:
1) What are the average per diems per month? I am
using a ballpark figure of USD1200.
2) How many hours can the B744 pilots expect to fly
per month?
3) What are the B744 destinations?
4) How often do the B744 pilots position about as passengers
to and from duty, broken down into hours of positioning per month?
5) What eating establishments are nearby the Incheon hotel?
6) Is the internet complimentary for KE crews at the
Hyatt?
7) How long does the bog standard pilot's ground and line training take? A month? Three?
8) When passengering home each month, who takes
priority between pilots going to the same home base if
there are limited seats? Does seniority by date of
joining (for seat preference) apply in these
instances?
9) Does the Medical Insurance cover for in-patient and
out-patient treatment? Does it cover emergency and non-emergency
dental work, and may a pilot seek medical assistance
at his home base, or only in Korea?
10) How many days can you expect to be in the
Incheon Hyatt per month?
11) Is the hotel room vacated when away from Incheon?
I'd imagine so...
12) If per diems came to, say, US$1200 per month, does that make the take home pay US$13,200.00?
13) Is that it, or are there other components to the salary?
14) Would anyone mind providing an example of a KAL B744
pilot's roster?
PM me if you like, or perhaps just post it here.
Thanks in advance.

[maui]

1) close
2) not on type
3) the world excluding Africa and s america
4) see2)
5) Thai, chicken and beer, chinese, korean
6) yes
7) 3
8) you are first in and best dressed/no to seniority
9) Check with you contract co. each one is different
10) 5-8
11) yes unless you go management
12) if your salary is 12000, yes (12000 + 1200 =13200 even in Korea)
13) occasionally a "safety bonus" but don't plan on it
14 see 2)

[fullforward]

I assume you´re a teamate on the 777 (though I´m not with KAL).
Regarding your previous (and good) answers, may I disagree on some points: I don´t think the environment have such professional friendleness and fairness.
Recently a number of excelent and vastly experienced expat captains were fired without aparent reason. Some of them I know personnaly and they professional records are as good as can be. Impeccable 30 plus years careers.
TRE, TRIs for long time.
How can be that?

[ndegepilot]

maui,
thanks for taking the time to reply. In an attempt to make more sense of it all, would you mind telling us which fleet you are on? Which agency would you recommend? The Isle of Man lot, the Texans, or the Kiwis (I have read your views on the fourth option so doubt you will be recommending them!)

Thanks in advance.

[4PW's]

Hi Maui,

Thanks for the concise answers. They are appreciated by us all.

I really should have put questions 1) and 12) this way: is the final package about $13200 a month, or are there hidden additives? You did mention a safety bonus, though the CCL/Rischworth contracts do not.

About the free tickets to a nominated home base every month, neither the CCL nor the Rischworth contracts speak of these being guaranteed, though that noun is used when describing travelling to commence a duty, and in the instance of Economy tickets four times a year on the network for family members.

It appears the monthly tickets home are either on the GD, or as a ticketed passenger, but in both cases travel is on standby basis. Is that correct, sir?

It also seems that priority between pilots travelling to the same base, and there must be a few going to Sydney each month, is on a first come first served basis. That's ok, but if someone doesn't get on and has to stay in the Incheon Hyatt another night, may I ask who pays the hotel bill please?

Finally, may I ask how many hours you fly each month on the B777 fleet? It may be representative of what sort of utilization the company is looking for in its expat pilot group, be they on the A330, B737, B777 or B744.

Knowing the answers to these and other questions goes a long way in assessing the merits of the job on offer, so thanks for your time, Maui.

[maui]

Gents

Full forward. I don't quite understand the context of your comment re professionlism, friendliness etc. I thought we were discussing T&C's.
Regarding bulk firing of anyone, can you give some more detail, cos I don't know who you are referring to. If you are talking about intake or transition training, there have been a few that have fallen by the wayside, some under dubious justification.

Ndege pilot
I'm on 777. Contracted to CCL, by my choice having been ripped off unmercifully by IAC Pacific. CCL has by far the greatest number of pilots here, and also handle Alteon insructors in these parts.
Choice of contract co is vey much up to the individual, as each has some pro's and con's. A word of caution though. Once you apply and come here on interview, you are locked (for the next 5 years) into the contractor who arranged it.
You cannot come here by invitation of one, and then jump to another.

4PW's
What you see is what you get. Safety bonus or any other for that matter, is at sole discretion of KAL. Maybe they will pay one, mabe not. Maybe you'll participate in it, mabe not. For planning purposes, it does not exist.
A misconception about travel to base. It is not done by ticket. You are rostered to do it. Must travel, not subload. No offload. No seniority/priority, you are on. No accomodation costs. If you were offloaded, (I've not known that to occur in the last 10+ years), KAL would accomodate you. On a very few occasions I have heard of a lack of business class seats, requiring ecy travel home, (very rare).
Family tickets are a different story, but in my experience usually works pretty well, depending on seasonal loads.

Work on 85 + hours. I think the 744 is doing a bit more than that at the moment, but it varies a bit on a seasonal basis.

M

[4PW's]

On ya, Maui. Thanks for the good oil.

[fliion]

Gents,

KAL are about to start hiring FO's via the agencies. $7500 plus and the same general T&C's as the PIC's.

Two questions.

What are your thoughts on how the locals will treat the expat right seater and;

What are the chances of getting an upgrade opportunity should one sign a contract.

respectfully,

Fliion

[CEJM]

Hello Guys,

Any answers to the questions asked by Fliion would be nice. I am A330 rated and would like to see a different part of the world.

CEJM

[torqrol]

Question for anyone.........

I'm an early retired American Airlines 777 driver. Fifty-five and have been out for just shy of 2 years. I am looking to get back into the game for one last look at the world and have sent the appropriate stacks of paperwork to GAP. Has anyone got a bead on if KAL is still looking for 777 drivers and whether or not they are currently and actively seeking 777 Captains? If yes, any idea on numbers needed and time frame for impending interviews?
Thanks in advance.

Torqrol

[4PW's]

Hey Torq,

Lot of recruiting going on.

Continuous hiring till 2009, so says CCL, et al.

You might want to poll Maui direct.

He's on the 777 and has the good oil on all things KE.

Good luck.

4PW's

[torqrol]

Much obliged, 4PW......


Torqrol

[CAT3A]

Anyone knows if Rishwoth Aviation is associated with IAC Pacific or any other reason to avoid them?

They also have some contracts for the 737

[BigLebowsky]

Hi all. Been reading this thread with excitement, not often you read a thread that has no or little moaning on this site. So now to my questions...

1)I'm a 737NG captain, but I'm more interested in a 747 F/O job than going to the 737 fleet. Is this crazy? Probably. But is it possible, or are they only taking rated F/Os?

2)I´ve only read the package for 744 drivers, but is it the same for 737s? Can you choose any base no matter fleet?

3)What's the bond like? I know it's a 5 year contract, but surely they can't bond you for that long?

4)Are you only away 17 days? I can't get the maths right,
17 on +9 off + 2 lve + 1 sick doesn't fill a whole month for me, what about the last few days? What's the story with this sick day, are they counting on you pulling a sickie one day a month? What about if you're actually sick for 12 days, will you not get any sick days then?

Enough questions for now... back to yous in the know! (tnx maui!)
Cheers

[kokkos]

Mr Maui.

You are the best source of info on KAL, thank you for your time.

Could you please shed some light on these issues (777 with CCL):

1. How many travel days around the 11 days off (9+2)?
2. Is there a culture of f/o's reporting expat capt's?
3. Can one obtain extra days off for less cash?
4. Is there golf close to ICN hotel, if yes, how much?
5. Looked at pics of hotel gym, is it ok?
6. Are different days off cycles available?
7. What is the failure rate for sim & line training?
8. Are the ppc's realistic or 1970's survival exercises?

Thank you for the help.

[torallin]

I am a current LTC 737NG capt. Wonder if there is LTC oportunities in Korea. Also living in Thailand (commuting) and working on this contract, is that an option?

How is the roster really like? Do you ONLY fly with Locals?

Tor.

[vwreggie]

gooday mate, I am a qantas guy happy in my employment with a query. Do any of your expats on contract actually live in korea with family and embrace the culture as best they can? I see a lot of posts about different companies with a fly in fly out commute mentality. If I made a move then my girl and I are more interested in living in a community and taking on all of the new experiences that a different culture would bring, most importantly learning a new language. regards

[vwreggie]

:ok:sorry that was supposed to be a pm to maui

[extreme P]

On the Korean five year contract there is only one figure for monthly pay. Is there a yearly raise throughout the contract?

[A310Capt]

Maui is 100% accurate. I worked with PARC + FSB/Alteon from 2000 ~ 2005, then with CCL + Alteon till july of last year, both periods at KAL Flt Crew T.C. in ICN; CCL is 1000 times a better agency than PARC Aviation in every aspect, as far as I'm concerned, and I see Mr. Hitch as a very organized and corteous person. Never leaves you without a response and extremely supportive. CCL never delayed my payment even by half-a-day. Regarding commuting, though our contracts were very similar to the KAL's pilots and - along 6.5 yrs of commuting life (mine was a long one, as I live in Rio de Janeiro!!!) - I was seldom left without a (business class) seat. On the few times it happened - always due to force majeure reasons - KAL and/or Boeing Travel always took care of everything, either at once or later refunding any expenses incurred. KAL is one the most powerful and solid airlines I have ever seen and the training center resources are 1st class, including the Teledyne Debrief System for most fleets. I trained and checked many "generations" of their pilots and had very few problems working with them, though (1) language barrier is indeed a factor, sometimes more than in China and (2) one has to understand the "secluded culture" that used to exist in Korea. Once you get used to it and manage to gain their trust, it becomes a bit easier. Along those years, my point-of-view is that the airline has improved in many senses and the management heavily invests to improve the training, the infrastructure etc. The Hyatt is by far better hotel than the Ramada Songdo, where Alteon instructors stay while on 19-days rotation. Hope these informations help. Should anybody need any other feedback from the Training Center and/or preemployment processes, I will be pleased to send additional info. Good luck to everyone.

[bluefalcon]

Thankyou for adding some extrafuel on the matter A310,
Ive just seen some offerings with rishworth, any comments on this agency?,
Also, could someone please show us a normal roster schedule on the 744, even on 777, would be appreciated, its been very demanded on the thread.:
Regarding days at ur base. If at your base u get to fly with your equipment, does that mean ull get to be more days at home, say for eg, resting days also at ur base, or once u leave ur base u aint coming back until off days commence?,
Cheers,;)

[fullforward]

Good post.
However, I would like to go back to one of my posts. It still very discouraging to apply for KAL, given the lack of an established pattern on their assessment system.
There are a multitude of stories involving several very professional, extremely experienced captains being fired without any apparent reason, by normal standards.
It happened recently and I know personally some of the captains involved: they had impeccable, 30 plus years careers and were failed, at different stages, for absolutely no serious reason.
One fleet manager even destroyed a checkride report sheet he did not "liked"!:confused: He explained to the confused foreign captain that the checkpilot pushed too hard and disregarded the checkride!
Of course there are people happy with KAL for many years. But the environment is unique on the lack of "reasonableness".

PS.: I have to say I had never been involved in any screening/interview/training with KAL.

[Rice bowl licker]

Anyone have info about the new foreign F/O positions? How long will it take to upgrade to Capt?

Borderline stupid question here but are the new F/O's going to be 'locked' into the right seat forever? I overheard in the customs line for crew @ LAX there's a lot of opposition by the local flight crew union.

Otherwise the regular contract sounds like a pretty good deal...still searching for the other requirement: 500hrs of PIC

Also, what's the "Korean procedure" is this something actually being practiced on the line or is it just bum scoop?

Warmly, Rice

[andydd]

Contact Direct Personnel who are also recruiting for KEL [email protected] +3538138400 and ask for Barbara or Niall, good luck!!:ok:

[Matai]

I've been looking into Rishworth and have a couple of buddies who are with them on contract. They seem pretty good - no payment issues and good response time. I see they are offering non type DECs on the 777 and 744. Does anyone know anything?

[timebender]

Does anyone have any experience with Euro-Pacific Aviation out of Melbourne as a contracting company for KAL?

[Fragglerock]

Hello,

Looks like the requirement for type on 777 or 747 is no longer necessary for Capt, according to Rishworth Aviation. Anyone use them for the application, so far? I'm trying to determine if the contract for Korean Air is better than the opportunities I've been offered in the ME, and so far it seems to be. Has anyone out there worked in both areas and willing to pass along info?
I'm currently on the Airbus but according to the Rishworth site, it's possible to transfer over to the Boeing as Capt. Thanks, for any info.

[Pin Head]

What bases are they offering?

[extreme P]

Commutable from anywhere in their system.

[azlee_19]

Hello guys,
so many discussions abt hiring capt, does KAL hiring B777 FO?
what is CCL by the way? hiring agent?, www pls :)

[oefag]

[email protected]
James Rye is the contact.

[CANPA]

Guys, Direct personnell is now accepting applications on behalf of Korean Air. Can anyone shed some light on the 737NG contract. Thanks....

[Capt Chambo]

CANPA I would strongly recommend that you use the agency mentioned in "oefag's" post.
The T&C's have all been covered before ad naseum. If you do a search through the "South Asia and Far East" forum you should find plenty of information.
In a nut shell...... training takes about 12 weeks, including 10 days off at home, you will be on training pay of $6500pcm.
Once on line your salary rises to c$9500pcm, and you should get a $3000 one off bonus on completion of your line check. You will be entitled to take 9 days off at home +2 leave days off every month ensuring that you can have at least 11 days off per month at home. The company will provide you with a free business class seat (upgradable to first) to travel home for your time off, and to travel back to Seoul. (Let me just clarify the seat on KE is on their network, if you don't live at the end of their network any other tickets are your responsibility!).
At work you are based in Seoul, and accommodated at the Hyatt Regency Hotel at Incheon. You will operate either from Incheon, or from Gimpo. In either case free transport is available. You will fly approx. 5/6 days on and then have 24hrs free of duty, before repeating the cycle. You will do about 55Hrs per month on a mix of domestic, and International flights. Hotel accommodation and transport is all provided when on duty.
You will receive a per diem paid either in Korean Won, or USD depending on your destinations and that comes to approximately USD1000 pcm.
On the 737 fleet you will cover Korea, Japan, China (no lay overs), Taiwan, Hong Kong, Russia, Veitnam (lay over), Cambodia (lay over), Manila (lay over) and probably a few others too, the route network is expanding rapidly!
You will fly -800's (with or without winglets) and -900's. The First Officers are all Korean and are a very pleasant bunch.
That should give you a flavour of the job, but if you have any specific questions fire away!

[blueoreas]

Hello Everyone.

I am Canadian and I speak Korean.
I just got hired by Korean Air (no agency) as an FO with local guys starting in a few month. I am not sure which aircraft I will be on, yet. I am hoping to get on the 737.

Is the schedule pretty much same as the local guys? I would assume that they will treat me same as the local guys. I will be moving to Korea. And how do you study for the license conversion? I asked around but I can't find the air law books in English.

Thank you. :)

[Capt Chambo]

Not completely familiar with the T&Cs for the local pilots but what little I do know is that it is very different to the contract for the foreign pilots.
Korean Air will hold your hand through the Air Law exam, don't worry.

[blueoreas]

Thank you for the reply.

Well... that's the thing. I was told that it's on my own to convert the licenses.
Do they give you any hand outs for the exams?

[skyward80]

Does KAL hire folks with a heavy jet type even though the type is NOT for one of the aircraft they are hiring into? I'm interested in an FO slot, but I am not rated on the 744, 777, or 737NG. My type is on the DC-10.

Thanks for the help!
Skyward80

[triple click]

hi guys

can anybody tell me where the A330 is flying to? do you get minimum rest at layover?

[skyward80]

Anybody here work for KAL?

[A and C]

I take it that you are talking US$ in you post about life on the B738 fleet ?

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Does KAL have openings for FOs?

I have about 4000 total time, 3000 jet, and over 1000 jet captain (Falcon 20).

Some heavy and oceanic experience (all as FO).

cliff
YIP

[Capt Chambo]

A and C, all figures in USD$. You get a local per diem whilst on duty in Korea, it's paid in Korean Won,and equates to about USD$1000 per month.
atpcliff. KAL are only hiring type rated B747 F/O's at the moment.

[GoForIt]

As far as agencies go, does anyone know anything about GAP Aviation? They seem to be doing a lot of recruiting for the KAL contract. Based in Texas USA. Anyone have any experience with them?

GoForIt

[changer]

Is it true that if a USA pilot goes with a USA contractor he could end up paying USA taxes that could otherwise be avoided with a non-USA contractor?

Just asking, cause I don't know...

[Giggey]

Hi all.
I see kal is again hiring on all fleet and they consider 320 rated people for ccq but at own expences.
Does it mean any kind of bond or cash from my wallet?

thanks to whom will reply.

cheers.

[Capt Chambo]

Giggey,
KAL will only employ you if you are type rated on a type they operate. So if you are current on the A320, and apply for a position in KAL on the A330 they may interview you and if you are successful they may offer you a position on the A330 subject to you coming back with the A330 endorsed on your licence. It is then up to you to get a type rating on the A330.
After joining KAL you will be liable for a training bond of $15000 if you leave KAL within the first year, this to cover the expenses that they believe they have incurred. This sum is common to all fleets AFAIK.

[condorbaaz]

what if you are Type rated and low hours on 330?

what training is expected for 3 months?
regards

And where do they fly to?

[condorbaaz]

come on lads, which sectors do 330 fly to in KAL?

[rubik101]

Why not look on their website?

[VORDME2]

I am looking for a partner to do the B777 type rating(NTR capt777 for KAL)It could be on JAR or FAA licence.

[condorbaaz]

rubik 101,

website does not mention type of ac for sectors and many sectors can be either 777 or 330

regards

[Luv2sleep]

First post on PPRUNE.....
Are there KAL contracts that have living arrangements in Korea, international schooling for children, etc. for 737NG types? Id' rather move there than commute. Also, what is the pay for a 747NG captain in US $? Thanks in advance.

[condorbaaz]

luv2sleep,

try CCL - Korean Air Details (http://www.kal-ccl.com/)

and get all info

[Circadian]

Hi ya'll. I too am considering moving over to KAL. I have a 747 classic type (FAA) and 4300+ hours. I have a quote from PanAm Academy for training for the 744 type. I don't know anything about them though. Has anyone had dealings with them? Anyone have any recommendations?

[torallin]

Hi

I am looking for a partner for a renewal of my rating. Want to pair up?

Tor

[Circadian]

I sent you a PM, have a look......

[andydd]

also try Direct Personnel (www.directpersonnel.com (http://www.directpersonnel.com)) , they have great terms and are a good bunch of guys when dealing with you..... always get them on the phone [email protected] ([email protected])

[spiker9msp]

Are they (IAC Pacific) the same as IAC Global??

[filejw]

Pan Am
I have done work for them as a Sim instructor on the 400 in MSP. The last two gentleman I trained were well prepared by the grd school and procedures instructors. One was a 200 captain and the other was off a TP... JW

[flyhigh744]

Can anybody here comment on the atmosphere in the cockpit for KAL?

Do you find you get along well ?

[LSGG]

Was current on the 744 when I lost my job with Oasis and applied.

I got invited to the selection process. About a week before going there, my wife was rushed to hospital (7 months pregnant) and she almost lost the baby.

I decided my place was to be next to her instead of Seoul doing selections that I would have most probably failed due to the preocupying situation.

I requested to pospone my selection date by one month. Had to re-aply and was never invited again. According to the lady from the agency I was on their "**** list" because you don't turn down an interview with KAL.

I don't know if I would have made it or not, but what I know is that I really do not want to work for an employer that might not consider these kind of emergency situations...

From what I heard, but this is second hand only, is that if you fly with caucasians, the atmosphere is OK. If with Koreans, then it becomes hell....

Cheers

[alarcas]

Any info to be ready for this process? how is the Sim? interview? etc.

Many thanks

[Afinehelmet]

As yet there seems to very little in the way of "negativity" on this thread which is encouraging.

Could any ex-pat FO's who have recently joined the B737NG fleet at KAL shed some light on what things are like?

I'm led to believe that the "local" skippers can be a bit difficult to work with, mainly owing to the "cultural" differances that exist, but if you're flying with another ex-pat then things are a bit more relaxed. Anyone prepaired to comment on that?

I'm also led to believe that ex-pat FO's will never be upgraded. Is this true? How many hours a month are the 737 pilots flying and is getting a business class seat for the commute home ever an issue for a FO?

Many thanks for any replies

[secret agent 86]

Bear in mind the following info is 2 years old...but here it goes:

KAL fly you on their network to INC in business class. You stay at the Hyatt INC which is very comfortable with a gym and a few restaurants with a variety of food types. There is a crew room in the hotel where you can get free internet.

Upon check-in you will get a package identifying who your sim partner will be as well as your program for your assessment along with bus tickets and instructions in Korean for taxi drivers to get you where you need to go.

The sim assessment is basic and was conducted by a Korean instructor. You will be well briefed and there are no tricks, just fly and do what you are told.

The interview is basic also...the key being to speak SLOW and ANNUNCIATE your words. They want to see that your English is of a high standard and that you will be understood by your companion in the flight deck. There were no technical questions, just the usual why do you want to work there etc. It was a panel of about 6 or 7 if I remember although only 2 or 3 asked questions. The interview lasted about 15-20 minutes.

The medical is intense, and takes a whole day with part done at the HQ and part at a local hospital. On a personal note, while I found the medical quite intrusive, to their credit they discovered a life threatening problem which my family GP had never discovered and frankly I am alive today because of that medical.

The whole process took 2 days and is very well organized. You must bear in mind that this is Korea and their culture is not a Western one and they do things differently. I was fortunate to be involved in an audit on KAL in 1999 when they had a bad rap for crashing airplanes and can testify that KAL have the will, the money, and the people to make KAL into a world class airline. There were bad apples in the mix but they are becoming rarer. Again, it isn't a Western culture, and their ways may seem alien, so if you can get your head around that you should fit in nicely.

Good luck.

[Afinehelmet]

Thanks for the information Secret Agent

[B737NG]

When you processed the huge paperwork and the internal selection process was done a maschinery starts to work with a precision of a Swiss Watch: You will fly in and out if your Airport of choice to Seoul and after you arrived here you go to the Hyatt Hotel at the Airport. There you will get all you need to make it thru the 3 days process. Everyone who wants to pass the medical should take the time and have a look at your condition before you come to Korea, Blood pressure, Colesterol and Blood Sugar should be as low as possible. If you ever had a laser surgery on your eyes you will find it difficult to pass the employment Check. SIM is straight foreward for any Type. Interview is 20 to 30 min average. If you had a Ex-Pat expirience before it is a plus, if you worked in Asia before you have a fair chance to know what you might expect.

After the 3~4 days in Seoul you fly back and about 10 to 12 days later your Agent get`s a feedback and you either get a Job offer or you are denied. That is the hiring process. People will show the best side to attract you and make you feel welcome somehow. KAL needs more Pilots of any Race and Gender to cope with the planned grow. It is imperative that you fit into the system to make yor life reasonable during the 20 days you are on the road per month. Bear in mind: Ex-Pats will never be part of the Airline, they are needed to fill a seat to fly the Plane. Therefore Airlines are using Agent`s to place you where the gap is. If you join and think you know it all you will learn one thing fast: Culture is priority not commercial. Efficiency is not that important when the Culture is in the loop.

On the other side some things had improoved since the last 10 years. Pilots where held responsible for theire actions. Most of the Guy`s who cooked something up recently where just "dismissed" or if you want to say fired use that expression for it. Ex-pats more then Natives.... but equal treatment is not in the book. Money is secondary, Yes there are some eager plans to safe and cut expenses but down the line they are not forced into your operation. For example: You find yourself hot and high in the approach - Go around! If you see one of the Chief-Pilots and you chat with him about that they will welcome your action and say it was good to fly another pattern and be on the safe side. There will be no word towards the amount of fuel/money that was adding to the bill. Airplanes are well maintained, seldom any open item when you leave for a flight. Somebody saight KAL has the will to get into a World-Class Airline, in the long run yes, funds are there to support that side. A downside is still the luck you need during the training, if any of the Koreans find you not appropriate to fit in:you are toast, period, no other option left.

Language is still a barrier, the younger generation of Pilots are better then those 10 years ago. Most of them left Korea for a while to study anything aboad and they are used to Westeners and diffrent cultures, they can be tolerant and understanding. KAL has a long history of having Ex-pats, some of the Cannucks have almost 18 years in KAL on contract.

As a resume`I have to say: It may suit some people, the more tolerant you are the better you cope with the working condition. If you are able to accept that fact it may help you in coping with it. There are always two side`s of the coin, it also up to each individual to make one side brighter then the other to set your ownn priority`s what is important. Maybe after 5 to 10 years you see a change, Korea is also known as the Land of the Morning Calm, changes take alot of time, months, years decades and century`s.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[Afinehelmet]

Any more comments from guys who know about the ex-pat set up at KAL?

[whyisthat]

Its their train set. Understand that, act accordingly, and its a good job. Best commuting contract on offer, by far.

[Afinehelmet]

I guess I'll be applying then.

Any comments from guys on the best agency?

I'm torn between Rishworth and CCL.

[captplaystation]

I have a couple of ex-colleagues there and they swear by CCL.
Read the other KAL threads here and you will find generally the same response.

[ADFS]

Wondering if KAL age limit is still being applied for 330 FO´s. Thanks.

[aw737]

HI, I'm to KAL for an interview soon. As far I as I can tell, the interview is based on flying the sim profile while using your procedures from your last companey.
Does anyone have any input on the panel interview? Anything at all?
Thanks

[Boeing 7E7]

If there is there anyone on the A330 who can shed some light on a typical roster pattern, it would be gratefully appreciated.

[hoover1]

has their been any recent news on hiring for 737 fo and any chance of upgrade also pay. thanks.

[Capt Chambo]

has their been any recent news on hiring for 737 fo

I believe there are at least three foreign F/Os under training at the moment.

and any chance of upgrade

Not happened on any fleet yet.

pay

From CCL's website, but I imagine other agencies are similar:-

B737NG F/O
Monthly payment
$6,200.00 - With Insurance
$6,340.00 - Without Insurance
9 Days Off per month
2 Days Annual Leave per month
$1,000.00 Joining Bonus

[hoover1]

do the expats fly with expats there or is it a mix. thanks for the info.

[Capt Chambo]

do the expats fly with expats there or is it a mix. thanks for the info.

On the B737 fleet. There are no foreign F/Os on line yet so it hasn't happened. Word on the street is that it won't happen either, but things change!

[AFD]

@cpt chambo
any news about 330 roster and lifestyle in seoul?
what about days off at hyatt hotel? how many days off during the duty pattern?

[Capt Chambo]

AFD I am not on the A330 so the following may not be 100% correct.

Generally the A330 is nicknamed the "beach fleet" because of it's destinations. It operates from Seoul, both ICN, and GMP, and there is usually at least one in Busan (PUS) to cover flights to Japan and SE Asia. If you are looking for it's exact destinations have a trawl through the KAL website, but generally from ICN it goes to SE Asia, China, Mongolia and Oceania, with a limited number of destinations in Europe. It doesn't go to the USA. From GMP it does domestics to Jeju .

The scheduling rules merely state that you must have 24hrs free of duty once every seven days. So your "day off' may actually be down route and not in Seoul at all. Given that you have 11 days off per month, and 3 travel days it works out that you will work 16/17 days a month (February aside), so normally you get 2 days off during your roster pattern.

Korean Air's website,Korean Air (http://www.koreanair.com/)
search travel planning>flight schedules and look for flights operated by the A330.

[hoover1]

hopefully there will be some expat fo for the 737 since they sent me an app. maybe i can start it going.

[Flying Mechanic]

what does a F/O take home as salary? The 11 off, 3 travel days sounds too good!

[AFD]

any more suggest?
is it a good option this commuting contract from korean air?
the question is to that pilot now flying for korean air?
what about the cockpit enviroment?
does the expats pilot flyes only with other expat or could they be coupled to korean one?

what is the work load judgement of the expat pilot overthere?
thanks

[Level Buster]

I am interested in Capt 737 contract and would appreciate any info on current rostering and a typical work pattern ie layovers away from INC, sectors flown per day, duty times etc

[Capt Chambo]

would appreciate any info on current rostering and a typical work pattern ie layovers away from INC

Assuming you take your 11 days off per month and have 3 travel days you will work 16/17 days a month (less in February). You must have "24hrs free of duty once every 7 days". To meet these requirements a typical roster will be a maximum of 6 days on, 1 day off. Normally we do 5 or less "ON", followed by 1 "OFF". You can normally expect 3 days off in a 16/17 day roster block,and on the 737 we normally have our day off in ICN.
Layovers:- normally a max. of 2 nights away, so could be anywhere on the domestic network. Outside of Korea; Japan, Nigata & Okayama. Cambodia, Phnom Penn & Sim Reap, Thailand, Bangkok. Philippines, Manila & Cebu, Veitnam, Hanoi. Hong Kong occasionally plus others I may have forgotten or some that come up from time to time when we operate instead of the Airbus.

sectors flown per day, duty times etc
We fly a max. of 4 sectors a day, but can position as well. Bear in mind that the longest flight domestically is about 50 mins airborne, most are 40 mins and some can be done in less than 30 mins, all with short turnarounds (c30mins). Trips to the SE Asian peninsula all leave Korea in the evening, you then get nearly 24 Hrs off, and bring the flight back to arrive back in Korea first thing in the morning. The actual scheduling rules are a max of 13 hrs duty with a max of 8 hrs at the wheel. You will sometimes be rostered a 2 crew operation for trips that are well within the above limits, so sit back relax and enjoy the ride.
If you are worried about fatigue then don't!

[AFD]

capt chambo thank you for you patience to explain and to give us as much information as you can
can i ask you how is the feeling with company management and flight operations department?
does expat pilot has standby day on their roster?

whai is the failure rate at screening and the failure rate during training?
is there any prejudice against expat pilot?

are with an agency? if yes have you ever had problem with them? can you suppose that rishworth aviation is doing a good job with their expat pilot?

[AFD]

i forgot to ask you if you have free use of internet in your room at hyatt regency incheon hotel?

and what about laundry? is there any discount for crew member?

[VORDME2]

You have free internet in the crew room and in the room it cost about 3-4$ a day.laundry is not expensive at all.

[Capt Chambo]

For those asking about pay, the following website lays it all out for you. Note; I am not advocating or promoting CCL it's just they publish all the details on the web, other agencies are much the same.

CCL - Korean Air Recruitment Details (http://www.kal-ccl.com/Index.asp?RPage=4)

AFD
is it a good option this commuting contract from korean air?
I think it is about the best commuting contract going.

what about the cockpit enviroment?
It is fine on the 737, I can't speak for other fleets.

does the expats pilot flyes only with other expat or could they be coupled to korean one?
Expat. F/Os are a relatively new concept in Korean Air. At the moment there are no expat. F/Os on line on the 737 or A330, so two foreigners don't fly together, on the 777, and 747 which have had expat. F/Os for a year or so now, then I believe it does happen that two foreign pilots can be rostered to fly together.

can i ask you how is the feeling with company management and flight operations department?
Like any job, if you do the job the way they want, and to the best of your ability then they are absolutely fine. I have had very little dealings with my fleet chief pilots but when I have, I have found them to be fine.

does expat pilot has standby day on their roster?
No. But you may get a reserve day.

whai is the failure rate at screening and the failure rate during training?
I have no idea of actual numbers or percentages, but there have been some notable cases recently where candidates were presented that were totally unsuitable so naturally they failed. Just to flesh the process out a bit, the agencies are given a list of minimum requirements which is what they then advertise. If you do not meet those requirements then the responsible agencies will not put your name forward. The less scrupulous agencies will put your name forward in the hope presumably that you may get through, and then surprise surprise the candidate fails along the way. You should make special note that Korean Air is not a "training airline", it advertises for fully qualified and experienced pilots. If the company feels that you don't meet their minimum requirements then they will fail you, either at the interview stage or during your training.

is there any prejudice against expat pilot?
None that I have experienced.

are with an agency? if yes have you ever had problem with them? can you suppose that rishworth aviation is doing a good job with their expat pilot?
All expats. are with agencies, it's a requirement here, you cannot be employed directly by Korean Air. I am not with Rishworth but I have colleagues who are with them and they have no complaints, and I have no complaints about my agency.

i forgot to ask you if you have free use of internet in your room at hyatt regency incheon hotel?
There are two crew rooms in the hotel with free internet. If you want to use the hotel's internet in your room then you will be charged KWON 5500 per 24 Hrs (about USD 3.75).

and what about laundry? is there any discount for crew member?
Yes there is, I forget the exact rate but it's about KRW 30,000 or USD 20.50(Inc taxes) for 30 items

[oceancrosser]

Just did the sim/medical/interview this week with KE (777). The sim was straightforward. Being non-type rated on the 777 there was some adjustment factor. The KAL instructor was fairly non-committal, did not offer much advise, and very difficult to understand. However I did not find him negative in any way.
Medical is a chapter in itself, as has been described previously on this thread.
There seemed to be repetitions of many of the tests both at the KAL building and the hospital. I think my blood pressure was taken 14 times by 4 different people! Slightly elevated at first, but way down on subsequent tests.
It is unlike anything you have seen unless you have done medical in China, Japan or Korea as I understand it.
The interview was straight forward as well, 2 Korean gentlemen, a few technical questions, and a little discussion about my past experiences, barely 20 mins.
But, I have no idea how I fared on either the medical or the interview.

The attrition rate in the sim is significant, my sim partner did not make it, and judging by the list we had, there would potentially have been 8 pilots for the medical, but only 4 of us were there.
For the interview (wholly different group) there should have been up to 12 pilots, we were 3.

Very well organized by KAL, works like clockwork. Now I only have to wait and see what happens next...

[AFD]

good luck :ok: oceancrosser

[.86]

Any Dutch pilots working for KAL via CCL to shine a light on payment/taxes ?
I am interested in the 744-Captain contract offered by CCL but I have to find out the particulars when you remain resident in Holland and get paid by CCL off shore.

rgds
.86

[Level Buster]

Chambo,
Many thanks for your very informative posts, I am seriously considering a Korean Air Contract on the 737 and need all the info I can get. I would be commuting from the UK and taking a break from my current job as the market over here is bleak at the moment. I am keen to experience a different culture and fly in the Far East. Your comments on duty hours and layovers are encouraging and I have checked the timetables for routes. I am pleased to hear that the trips to SE asia peninsula are layovers as these could be very tiring if rostered as out and backs all in one night(like we do over here, charter) I assume that sometimes you may get a few days down there if the return is not daily. The flight time limitations seem quite good and I understand you fly about 65 hours a month.
How do you find the cost of living, ie food/drink while in Korea and do your per diems cover this.

[Capt Chambo]

Level Buster

I assume that sometimes you may get a few days down there if the return is not daily.
There are a few rotations that have a few days down route. Personally I have never had one. The law of averages says that those trips will more likely fall to the Koreans. Whereas there is no bid system for trips as such, there would be no harm in you asking the scheduler if you could do a particular trip if you wanted to. That all said what we are noticing recently are trips where you position one way, and operate the other, rather then getting time off down route. For example we used to operate from Busan to Manila, have c24hrs off then operate Manila back to Busan. Now we seem to be getting rosters that have us position from ICN to Manila, we have about 12 hrs there then operate from Manila to Busan, or vice versa.

The flight time limitations seem quite good and I understand you fly about 65 hours a month.
The most I have ever done is 59hrs. The 65 hrs is the beginning of overtime IIRC. If you are used to CAP 371 then you will like the simplicity of the Korean FTLs, one thing you will find is that we have a few trips that operate like a "split duty". For example: ICN-Nigata, you get to the hotel at about 2100 hrs, and you leave the hotel the next morning at 0800 hrs.

How do you find the cost of living, ie food/drink while in Korea and do your per diems cover this.
Seoul is often cited as being among of the top 5 most expensive cities in the world. We are accommodated out at the airport, which is about 1h 15mins by bus from the centre of Seoul, which means you are pretty well stuck with eating and drinking at the hotel, or airport or locally to the hotel. Although we get meal vouchers and discounts all over the place I personally think it is expensive. The per diems are adequate, but probably shouldn't be seen as a way of "topping up" your salary.
If you didn't already know, whilst in Korea your per diems are paid in KRW, I don't actually know the rate but it works out at about USD 50-55 per day, and whilst outside of Korea you are paid in USD. The company will set up two bank accounts for you, one for your KRW and one for your USD, and you get paid your per diems by the 17th of the following month. You should also note that you don't get a per diem whilst you are "on duty".

[Level Buster]

Chambo,
Excellent insight again, much appreciated.
Is Per diem for off duty time then, and does that include time at INC as it seems that this is where you spend the most amount of time.
Also, do you know if the route network is expanding with an increase in 737 deliveries or is the current recruitment drive just a continuing replacement of crew turnover.

[AFD]

is there any chance to get downtown seoul by subway from hyatt hotel?
thanks

[tom744]

.86,

there are a couple of dutch pilots working for KAL.
I'm not dutch but also european;
pay on B744 is 13000 US$ a month plus per diem, totally average 1000 US$.
If you are over 75 h paytime you get overtime pay, but very rare...
Korean tax is payed by CCL, so that amount is already net pay.
I don't know about your taxation laws, but I personally don't have to pay tax in my country since I'm mote than 183 days away and not registered, and with the taxation agreement with Korea in force I don't have to pay any taxes.
Maybe you check it out with a tax advisor in your country.
CCL pays your salary to any nominated account worldwide and you can split it also if you want.

Hope it helps & good luck!

[Capt Chambo]

Level Buster

Is Per diem for off duty time then, and does that include time at INC as it seems that this is where you spend the most amount of time.

Think of it this way... whilst the clock is ticking for your duty time, it is stopped for your per diem. When you finish your trip and the duty clock stops, that's when the per diem clock starts again. As you are off duty in ICN, the per diem clock is ticking away.....

Also, do you know if the route network is expanding with an increase in 737 deliveries or is the current recruitment drive just a continuing replacement of crew turnover.

Generally the route network is expanding for the pax. fleet, and I suspect it is contracting slightly for the freighters. More specifically on the 737, we seem to be starting new routes all the time, but we lose a few too, especially when they outgrows the capacity of the 737, Incheon-Hanoi, being a recent example. The scheduled 737 deliveries include 3x-900ERs, and 1x700(BBJ), at the same time we lose 3 (I think) -800s to Jin Air KALs LoCo start up airline. The fleet size should remain broadly neutral at 30 units, with a bit of extra capacity from the -900ERs.
I don't know what's behind the present recruitment drive which is across all fleets (except the A300)BTW, but one can speculate that more crew are needed to replace retirees, and also to be in place, as and when KAL take delivery of all the 787, 777, 747-800, and A380s that are on order.

AFD

is there any chance to get downtown seoul by subway from hyatt hotel?

Yes but you need to change at Gimpo, you can also use the KAL Limousine Coach.

[.86]

tom744

Thanks.
I do have all the ccl financial details.

Is the tax agreement with South Korea or Isle of Man /UK- your country ?
The Netherlands also has the 183 days rule but I understand there are exemptions depending where you work.
If you are not registered in your country where should you register ?

greetings
.86

[B737NG]

You will get a Allien registration in Korea, the double taxation rules with most European Countries and Korea demand that you have less then 180 days in your "home" country.

To play it safe register at your Embassy in Seoul and if there are any doubts tell your the People at the Tax-Office to inquire at the Embassy how long you are there and so on.... it worked for me so far for a while. Your get 132 days per Year at home so, 365-132= 233 days out of your Residence Country, Source of income= Korea, Tax paid in Korea= No Tax in most EU-countries with double taxation agreement.

Carefull for all those who join the "Home base Programm" that can backfire if you send too much time at your base.

There is no need to pay off shore for Tax purposes but some claim they still have to do it, maybe one of the 3 Ex-Wife´s is behind his account..... Who knows.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[.86]

Found out that the 183 days rule does not apply for pilots and seamen in the Netherlands/S-korea tax deal ("tractatenblad")
This means you have to de-register ( uitschrijven) in Holland.
You will lose all social securities by doing this. (ww, volkverzekeringen etc.)
Also you will lose 2 % of AOW per year you are not registered in Holland.
Count also the pension you have to pay now yourself, and no more tax reduction on mortgage and the 13 K does not seem that much anymore..

kind regards
.86

[captplaystation]

Short arms and deep pockets your authorities, they always find a way to get your money eh ? even if they have to do it by getting you to convince yourself to pay. Can't be too careful wish the money in the Netherlands. ;)

[.86]

For all Dutch Pilots who contemplate the KAL deal, hereby the text from the tax agreement between The Netherlands and the Rep. of Korea ( note paragraph 3) :

Article 16 Dependent Personal Services
1. Subject to the provisions of Articles 17, 19, 20, 21 and 22, salaries, wages and other similar remuneration derived by a resident of one of the States in respect of an employment shall be taxable only in that State unless the employment is exercised in the other State. If the employment is so exercised, such remuneration as is derived therefrom may be taxed in that other State.
2. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, remuneration derived by a resident of one of the States in respect of an employment exercised in the other State shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State if:
(a) the recipient is present in the other State for a period or periods not exceeding in the aggregate 183 days in the taxable year concerned, and
(b) the remuneration is paid by, or on behalf of, an employer who is not a resident of the other State, and
(c) the remuneration is not borne by a permanent establishment or a fixed base which the employer has in the other State.
3. Notwithstanding the preceding provisions of this Article, remuneration derived by a resident of one of the States in respect of an employment exercised aboard a ship or aircraft in international traffic shall be taxable only in that State.http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/bah.gif

[hoover1]

does anyone know if when KAL gets the 787 they are going to let some of the guys who have been flying for them in different type move over to the 787. also does anyone ever get to move to another aircraft if they have no type for. say 737 to 777 if they have so many hours with KAL

[B737NG]

KAL has ten B787 on order and will get the first ones in 2011 you can find such information as well on the Boeing website.

KAL moved some Guy`s in the past from A360 to B744, from MD11 to B744, from B747 to B744 and B777, from B737 to B744 and only one to B777. There is no plan to move Guy`s from any Airplane in the near future as KAL still hires on all Types and all F/O`s are told they will not get any upgrade. On the other side who knows what is down the road in 4 or 5 years?? Maybe the whole system is changing then as they need more Pilots for the expansion and if Korea as a Country is not "producing" enough they have to consider that as well. As long as they get enough from outside for free why should they invest inside then??

All contracts are 5 years only and just recently the benefits for ExPat F/O`s where reduced and the Guy`s been told more or less: Take it or leave it......

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[hoover1]

just wondering where KAL plans to get guys with the 787 type and time in it if it is a new plane. they will have to move some around i suppose.

[fourgolds]

777 to 787 is a 3 day course apparently , I understand Alteon are even looking at a Fixed base simulator only conversion for Boeing from the 777. So I guess they will be interested in 777 applicants in the future , but again one never knows.

[Sitting Bull]

Does anyone know what

- is the CURRENT Sim scenario for the A330 PiC selection

- what kind of A330 technical questions are CURRENTLY being asked

Thanks for your help

[Sitting Bull]

...nobody???

[captplaystation]

Don't know about the other agencies but if you get the interview CCL provide (at least on 737 & I assume other types ? ) full sim profile & a copy of the proforma used by examiner, along with some recent "sample" interview Q's provided by recent candidates. If your agency are not proposing a similar level of support maybe you should ask yourself if you backed the right horse ?

[knightrider]

Anybody can help, which agency are most of the contract crew flying for KAL using???

Thanks

Rishworth, Dricet Personal, GAP, Parc and CCL who is the BEST???

[captplaystation]

PARC do Asiana not KAL.
If you do a search on here you will find more :ok: for CCL than the others.
From my dealings with them they seemed very responsive and professional, & my not joining finally is not of their making.

[bizjetbus]

Anyone currently on the 330 (Fo) ?

I have received a contract summary from one of the agencies and the pay consists of basic pay, per diem and overtime pay. Can anyone shed some light on how much the total pay for a normal month accumulates to?

Thanks.

bjb

[knightrider]

Thanks....think CCL the way to go hear majority guys go thru them.

per diams approx 500USD / mth I hear.

[Sitting Bull]

Dear CaptPlaystation

Thanks for your reply. As I am with CCL, I will contact them for the scenario.

[ArmyOfOne]

Would I be right in saying that the CCL Website figures are Korean tax paid? If so, being a UK resident would you need to pay any UK tax at all? What is the significance of being paid offshore then?
Just asking as I honestly don't know!!! (Sorry if it sounds dumb.)

[.86]

How is Korean doing now with the crisis on full throttle ?
Still hiring Captains and FO's for the 744 ?
Anybody who knows ?

[blueoreas]

As far as I know, Still hiring
Captains and FOs on all fleet except for the A300

[Damianik]

What do you guys think about Korean? i have an assessment coming soon, i am european living in europe.
First officer on the NG...

D

[atpcliff]

Hi!

It sounds fantastic, especially compared to a job, say, where you'll get less pay, and you'll go to Kenya and fly for 6 months, and then you get to go home and be off for 1 month of unpaid vacation, then back for 6 months more flying.

Cliff
KGRB

[JPHIL68]

Hello

just wan to know the typical conditions for f/o on a330 (not the tropical...) and the recruitement process for an expat at all

thank s and take care:ok:

[magicfingers]

Hi all,

Are there any 737ng FOs out at KAL who can answer the following:

Typical hours / take home pay.
Whats it like flying with local captains / dealing with operations etc.
Roster type - do they do 13 hour days like I do at my low cost airline.
Any stop overs?
Type of room the put you in at the hyatt.
Cost of a typical meal in the hotel.
Do you get meals onboard etc.

Regards

[Rhodes13]

Damianik what happened to Netjets?

From what I have looked at if you join as an FO then as an FO you shall stay. Bit of a dead end in terms of future job prospects no? :sad:

[Brain Potter]

Some questions for 747 crews:

1. What are the 747-400 trip-patterns like?

2. How long a layover do you get in destinations like London, Frankfurt, New York and LAX?

3. Is there any form of trip bidding system?

4. How far in advance do you receive your roster?

5. Can trips be swapped?

Many thanks in advance.

[stezam65]

I read that to be hired by KAL as DEC in A330's they need only the A330 PIC type rating with no experience on type. :rolleyes:
Is it true?
Thanks for any reply.

[captplaystation]

Info is available on CCL - Korean Air Recruitment Details (http://www.kal-ccl.com)

It says, 2000hr PIC in airline operations
Operated type as PIC within last 2 years.
It therefore suggests that you must have PIC experience on type but doesn't actually spell out how much.
Easiest solution is to email them, I have found them very helpful. :ok:

[flyguy70lk]

Hi captplaystation, am a newbie so pls excuse the question; what is the actual website of ccl ? Thanks for the help. Cheers !

[captplaystation]

Click on the link on my post above, it works for me :ok:

If not, it is CCL - Korean Air Recruitment Details (http://www.kal-ccl.com)

[goaround6]

hi, does anybody know something about the KAL interview and screening program. What about the medical screening - any specific bodymass index requirements?
Thanks;)

[CJ1234]

Just to add my little input - a friend of ours is now working for Korean on the 777 and said the training was excruciating. He said that he was marked down for not having the WX radar bright enough. He may be exaggerating, but I could tell that he found it pretty tough. I'd expect the medical to be JUST as stringent (I know our friend had his fingers burnt due to high cholesterol - but unfortunately I have no precise details on the medical itself). I'm joining the industry at the moment and considered following him, but quickly decided that I couldn't stand the training and the months away from sunny Blighty!

Having said that, someone asked earlier on in the thread if the safety has improved at KAL, and I would say that it is now, from what our friend's been saying, totally paramount and up there with the big European operators. And both the 777 and the 330 are pretty good machines to operate - particularly coming off the 757!

It also strikes me as a very exciting job - so many months in Korea and then back home for a little break. Thorough training, fabulous aircraft, interesting base and super destinations. And for a CAPT like he is, pretty good pay. If i wasn't so far away, I'd probably go for it myself.

All the best to potential KAL candidates

[cumulustratus]

Many thanks to all the thread contributors, very interesting reading!

I would like some advice from all you guys with a few more grey hairs than myself.

I am currently 24 years old with ~1700 hrs logged, of which ~1350 73NG. I believe you can all guess which European LoCo company i am working for right now, given my high ratio of NG time...

I've applied via one of the contracting agencies, and am hoping for an interview in Sept for the B737NG F/O position. Heres the million dollar question: would KAL be a wise move? My current company could provide an opportunity for command at about 3000 hrs total, but I am trying to get out asap, dure to tax implications and "management-by-fear" culture. Plus, as you all know, there are no benefits whatsoever (own food, only hot water provided for coffee, pay for uniform, sim, hotels, license, medical etc.etc.)

I am simply looking to get into a proper organisation, to see more of the world and learn a different way of operating the machinery. Of course the rumours(?) about no upgrade to command within the 5 years or type swapping sounds like really bad news, the plus side is my country has a tax agreement with Korea meaning I keep all my money. Right now I am more or less a tax fugitive.

I've got some additional questions to those already answered in this great thread:

1) Crew meals when on duty? On layovers? If yes - quality?

2) Home travel for off days - economy or business for F/Os?

3) I've also heard you can get booked for home travel on the cargo fleet for destinations not covered by pax network - true?

4) Hows life when on layovers, off days in ICN? Any interaction with cabin crew, rumour has it this is culturally impossible?

5) Spare time activities? Golf, beach etc?

6) What do you believe is higher regarded by other major airlines; a lot of F/O time in different companys and parts of the world, or Command at minimum time with one LoCo operator in Europe? Whats the best career strategy?

7) The thread has been quiet for a while, can any expat B737 F/O advice what the flight deck athmosphere is like? Flying only with local cpts?

Thanks in advance to all contributors!

[Abeo]

Hi cumulustratus,

My simple advice: bite the bullet and stay where you are. Get your command and move as a captain when you can. You could get yourself trapped as FO for a long time if you moved now, or not, but there will be a lot more uncertainty.

[captjns]

KAL is a Good operation to work for. However, regardless of the propaganda, F/Os will never upgrade, unless by an act of god. Stay where you are, get your command, accumulate at least 1,000 hours of PIC, and then go to KAL as a DEC. You will be much better off.

[3holer]

Cumulustratus,
My two cents, stay where you are. Get your command first, then hunt for a new job. Good luck

[WidebodyWillie]

Hi,

Are there any UK pilots working for Korean on the 744 that can answer?

Q1. Could you briefly explain the double taxation legalities coming home to the UK on your days off?

Q2. Whats percentage of your US$ dollars are paid in UK tax each month? / Take home pay?(744)

Thanks Chaps. :sad:

[Iver]

Another question I have is how are Western pilots treated by their Korean counterparts whilst on a trip or during a flight? Is there much conversation or is it quiet and "awkward"? Do the Western pilots get shunned and shut out of any crew interaction or are accepted as part of the group on a trip? I realise there are big cultural differences and that showing respect for the Korean pilots is very important, etc. I also realise that certain pilots will be different from others (some more interactive than others).

What can a Westerner "typically" expect? Can anyone provide insight? Are you pretty much on your own during layovers and during long cruises at altitude?

[Donkey Duke]

How about the Incheon Hyatt? Is that a nice place?

[Raynald]

Hi guys!

A short one, does one of you know if it's possible to be based in ICN ? with house/appart. renting, family and so on... ?

[torallin]

It is not possible to get a home base Inchon. Look to Asiana if you like that deal. They provide company Apartment.

Second, do you REALLY want to live here? I think you would reconsider if you were here.

[bumba]

... since this is a good thread I would like to keep it alive!

So since it seams lots of pilots are heading there, anybody has any latest news on the KAL REAL minimum requirements for DEC NTR 777, because the minimum requirements posted in all the agencies web-sites are really low!

[captjns]

Bumba wants to know

So since it seams lots of pilots are heading there, anybody has any latest news on the KAL REAL minimum requirements for DEC NTR 777, because the minimum requirements posted in all the agencies web-sites are really low!

Negative... don't waste your time unless you actually have at least 4,000 PIC time on large jet aircraft with at least 1500 hours on the 757, 767 or 747-400. Preferrential treatment will be given to TREs/TRIs

[rjslim]

There is not much talk about Korean Air these days. What is the latest? I'm thinking about interviewing in May. US, 747 1000 + PIC on the 744.

[Chocks Away]

Yes, same but for the 777... don't have the command type hours for DEC sadly, so is as F/o.
I see terms have improved slightly too?
Can they be depended on or does it change once the ink has dried, like India/China?
Is "the culture" still the same or has it shifted somewhat after the SFO accident of there cousins?

Annex:
Further to my last, Ive just found out that I can not apply to Korean as I do not have a university Degree!
Turkish also have this requirement (for upgrade).
Has it ever occurred to them, that if I had a Degree I would be earning much better Terms & Conditions in another industry outside Aviation? I think not and hence their endless and ever increasing shortage of qualified crew, on all fleets now!
Obviously some airlines prefer to park their aircraft against the fence instead of getting qualified and experienced crew onside to get them moving and earning $$$ for them.
It doesn't seem to be an isolated problem either but prevalent in many corners of the globe, sadly.

[stoneage]

FYI,

The university degree is the legal minimal requirement in which the government imposes for expat recruitment; not just in KAL, but across all sectors of expat employment in South Korea :ok:

[Chocks Away]

Thanks Stoneage, as I suspected.
I was just frustrated and on my soapbox.

[Aviate378]

Did my 5 years with them as 777 DEC. Survived. But NEVER miss it.

[Machspeed]

Anyone have any info on if there is reverse rostering is the LAX and SFO bases?

[Count von Altibar]

No reverse rostering from what I've heard

[HighSpeedAluminum]

KAL has a home base program.

B744 offers LAX

B777 offers LAX and SFO

[Machspeed]

The rumor on the street is that if the base has enough pilots, the reverse rostering is allowed? Anyone with first hand knowledge on this?

[HighSpeedAluminum]

You would be correct. There needs to be enough weekly frequency (three days a week I believe) for a base to be offered.

[Pitbull747]

Hello guys.
Anyone currently flying 777 Left seat for KAL?
I'm looking to make a move from the sandpit to the Far East.
Maybe you could answer some of my questions:

How's Sim and line training really like?

If you live where you're based at , do you get to fly there during your roster pattern or only starting and ending your days off?

Any other important info before I hit Enter?

Thank you.

[parkfell]

What about the NUT test ?:eek:

[Left Coaster]

Any other bases for the 744? What about freighter rosters? Heard that those rosters are not too bad and more to be introduced?

[Threethirty]

Anybody any info on KAL 330 F/O contracts?

[Count von Altibar]

I think they're 5 year contracts and FOs get a bonus on completion, I think around $36,000 but I stand to be corrected. I have heard that they're changing things so that FOs can be upgraded but you'd need to ask someone who really knows like Rishworth, DPI, CCL etc.

[canberk]

Hey guys, i am interested in KAL 737 commuting contract but i am not sure if they are keeping their promises ?

1) the most important one - do they give you 12 consecutive off blocks and they say you can use your annual leave which is 30 days to your off blocks which is lets say approximately 2 days. Do you have 14 days of at total each month ? that seems really crazy and really hard to believe.

2)Is it easy to commute ? do they give fixed seats on the way back home even for first officers ?

3) Aprroximately when you are able to be promoted to Captain if you have the experience ? Is it possible at KAL

4) if you look at couple of years ago KAL is known as a company who has the worst in CRM as an national airline ? is it true or is it just rumours ? how are the things right now over there as a expat first officer

if anybody can help me out with some information i would be very happy !

thanx

[Dutchformula]

Hello folks,

im also looking into a 737 FO contract,
since most of the stuff in this topic is ancient, anyone with some recent experience?

Rosters, (working)culture, everything they (rishworth) offer in the contract comes true in real life etc.

PM or reply all the same.
Thanks very much!

[Fokiator]

bonus on completion

Be careful with signing or completion bonus, I have several friends who did´t receive anything, even being TRE in the company... Just a way to attract people. One friend is living there with his family, other is commuting, both long haul. Don´t know who is happier :confused: Company treats you well, strict training but once released ok. But very asian culture :oh:, steep hierarchy as in many asian airlines. Commuting roster about 15 days working, a week at home. Risworth is helping a lot to settle down and getting you up to speed.
Good luck! :ok:

[400drvr]

I received my $3000 bonus after I completed training. I'm with CCL.

[Fokiator]

I was referring to completion of contract bonus at the end of the 5 yrs. But maybe things changed and you get what was promised!

[400drvr]

Yeah I never got anything after I signed on other than my salary. No COS either.

[italian stallion]

Hi guys
Any Captains on B738 at KAL that PM me their roster for the last month or two so as I can get a good idea on flying/days off etc.
Many thanks

[7Q Off]

How the home base program work?

[highfive]

No need to put the cart infront of the horse . You have to be hired first before you can apply. Its not ever mentioned before this.

If you are not B777 , its fairly restricted, and seasonal , depending on frequency. Also expect to do full tax return in home base once assigned.

[slam dunk 4]

Hi guys,

anyone here from Germany working for Korean Air via Rishworth on the A330 as a Captain?
I am currently working on the A 330 for Eurowings in Cologne as a Comander.
Recently I passed the selection process for KAL and I would like to ask some questions concerning taxation and rostering/ Rishworth and so on... please pm me if your are willing to share some insider info. I never had a contract job before and am very uncertain if i will get what i was offered in my contract with Rishworth.

Many thanks in advance

[Judge A Gen]

Seems the internet is full of jobs at Korean from every man and his dog.I dont think there is much difference between them all, as far as I see taxes are paid in Korea.
How is the situation on the A330 in INC at the moment, nothing much update about screening / training fails or success.
What procedures (Airbus or Company) are they currently using. EFB or just AB paper.
Would be nice to get some updated infomation from a expat or two,

[fatbus]

What is the perceived security situation at the moment

[B737900er]

If Trump strikes, the nuclear fallout wont hit Seoul. :)

[azdriver]

I got a couple of questions for the folks in the know, I have used the search and went through all the posts but I would like to have accurate/updated infos before I apply for A330 NTR CPT position:

1-could someone compiles a sort of list of which agency is the best among the following 3: CCL, GAP, TAS (I am based in Europe if that makes a difference)

2-how is the interview process and background checks? I just finished working at management level, for a small outfit that went bankrupt and everybody disappeared like snow under the sun (I do have plenty of referees from previous jobs...)

3-is still a very long training process 4-5 month?

4-are they happy with electronic logbook or should I pay my son to fill in the lines?

5-do you get ID tickets with other airlines?

Thanks for the help

[VORDME2]

I have just seen this:
roadshow for Korean air in Abu Dhabi.

Visit ::: Welcome to Total Aviation Service - TAS ::: (http://www.flytas.com) for more information.
“Job Opportunity Information Sessions for Korean Air”
Job Security & Personal Lifestyle
Join the 400 plus expat crews at Korean Air and keep your family home secure while still enjoying a prosperous career flying wide-body jets worldwide. A roster that offers you guaranteed 11 days off in a row per month, of your choosing, plus 3 days of travel in business class to and from home. That is 2 weeks off in total every month.
Information Sessions will be held on February 15th and 16th, 2018
Al Raha Beach Hotel ~ Abu Dhabi
Al Raha Beach Corniche, Abu Dhabi 38616 ph: +971(2)5080555
Feb. 15 : 1st session: 10:00a ~ 12:00p, 2nd session: 14:30p ~ 16:30p
Feb. 16 : 10:00a ~ 12:00p
The Session will provide more information on Korean Air, the training and selection program, commuting, and details of the comprehensive and competitive remuneration package.

Why Korean Air?

“No need to relocate residence.” – Korean Air is offering an excellent commuting contract.
You and your family can enjoy better lifestyle.

Commuting
Every month pilot’s commute travel provided by KAL. The pilot can choose one of 128 cities Korean Air operates from as a base for commuting.

Days off and Annual Leave
All crew members are given 9 consecutive days off per month. Three travelling days are provided additionally. Two days of annual leave (up to 7 days monthly, 24 days yearly) can be combined to those days~9-16 days/mo, at Home!


Almost all of your leave requests are granted, protected and guaranteed.

Contract Term
Five Years, renewable until 65 for Captains, and 55 for First Officers.

Accommodations
5* Star hotels in Seoul and overseas.

Generous Employee Ticket Benefits Generous travel benefits for the pilot and their family members.
Flight crew leasing agency provider to Korean Air

Minimum Requirements
Captain
• Age Limit: less than 60(TR) 55(NTR) years at time of Joining
• Recent Flight :
-OnType: within 1 year (2 yr, if current MC Jet)
-NonTypeRated (NTR): within 6 mos on Like Type
(1 yr, if current MC Jet).

B744/B777/A380/A330/B737NG:
Total Flight Time: 7000hrs (B737NG 5,000)
Total MultiCrew Jet: 5000hrs (B737NG 4,000)
Total PIC MultiCrew Jet: 2,500hrs (B737NG 2,000)
On Type: 1,000hrs (PIC, or w/ some FO credit)
B777NTR: 1,000hrs (B767/B747-4-8)
A330NTR: 1,000hrs (A319/320/321/340).

First Officer
• Age Limit: less than 45 years at time of Joining
• Total Flight Time: 2,000hrs (B737NG 1,000)
• MultiCrew Jet: 1,000hrs
• Recent Flight :
-On Type: within 1 year (2 yr, if current MC Jet)
-NTR: within 6 mos (1 yr, if current MC Jet).

B744/B777/A380/A330/B737NG:
On Type: 500hrs
B777NTR: 500hrs (B767/B747-4-8)
A330NTR: 500hrs (A319/320/321/340).

[pilot hans]

Any news from KAL? Stll happy expats or did everyone left for China :-)
They were doing some roadshows so it seems that they are in need of pilots.
It looks like a stable commuting roster. Anyone knows if you choose your 11 days or is that done by KAL? How long in advanced would you know your timr off?

[Mister Geezer]

Get in touch with the contract agency that you are thinking of using. I am at the stage of evaluating Korean and the questions I have had so far have been fully answered and promptly too.

You do seem to have some influence on when your days off are.

[dustyflightdeck]

Any up to date info on KAL? I am a 777 FO looking to escape the ME and get back home. How is the average flying hours and is life as an FO bearable at KAL? Thanks!!

[Emma Royds]

It's a difficult gig being a ex-pat FO at KAL. Consider such a move very very carefully.

[Daddy Fantastic]

It's a difficult gig being a ex-pat FO at KAL. Consider such a move very very carefully.

I can confirm that through friends who flew at KAL as both FO and Captain. As a 'ROUND EYE' expat you will be treated very badly. Their management style is 'put the fear of god into them' type management where your next sim check is your last if you step on the wrong toes.

I know of 4 pilots who all told me to avoid like the plague. All good pilots, decent people you would gladly share the cockpit with and a beer after work. I personally never flew there but I trust these guys and would certainly never apply.

Good luck if you do though...hope it all pans out for you.

[dustyflightdeck]

Thanks for the info, definitely avoid then!

[bia botal]

I can confirm that through friends who flew at KAL as both FO and Captain. As a 'ROUND EYE' expat you will be treated very badly. Their management style is 'put the fear of god into them' type management where your next sim check is your last if you step on the wrong toes.

I know of 4 pilots who all told me to avoid like the plague. All good pilots, decent people you would gladly share the cockpit with and a beer after work. I personally never flew there but I trust these guys and would certainly never apply.

Good luck if you do though...hope it all pans out for you.


Absolute rubbish, for starters the sims are staffed by mostly retired ex-USA guys who are for the most part there to help, so your suggestion that it can be used as a threat is completely wrong, as for your other suggestion that management puts the fear of god into the expat community again absolute rubbish, compared to somewhere like EK, my old employer, KE management are a decent enough bunch. Once through training you are left alone provided you keep you nose clean.

[Daddy Fantastic]

The pilots I know who were there are all decent guys who dont lie. They are 4 very skilled aviators with plenty of experience. The chances of 4 people walking out and individually telling me the same story which then turn out to be a lie is just too remote...

Seems like somebody is possibly a management mole or brown nosing their way up...either way plenty of pilots will confirm the bad treatment they had at KA......Lets not kid ourselves about how bad Asian and Middle East management of airlines and their crews really are!

[Time Traveller]

I know two. One, a decent guy who was on the 737, said he was well treated, but left because the (off network) commute became a pain. The other, a very odd guy on the 747, who left in short order. It's a pity the pay on the 737 is so uncompetitive for expat rates.

[Flyingviking2018]

So there are some very mixed feeling about Korean Airlines.
I have been reading through some threads here and what seems to keep popping up is training. Can someone elaborate on what is the issue? I understand it takes a long time, up to 4 months on reduced pay. Is the training particularly difficult? Is it more the trainers? Or is it a cultural issue?
Any actual info on working for KE? I am not so much interested in what friends of friends say. I would greatly appreciate openminded info from pilots working at KE. I read mainly bad things but for sure there has to be some good things as well. Or I am too naïve?
I am currently working for an airline in the ME that can not be mentioned here. But seriously looking at other options. One of them KE or OZ but also considering VN.

[Dogsofwar]

So there are some very mixed feeling about Korean Airlines.
I have been reading through some threads here and what seems to keep popping up is training. Can someone elaborate on what is the issue? I understand it takes a long time, up to 4 months on reduced pay. Is the training particularly difficult? Is it more the trainers? Or is it a cultural issue?
Any actual info on working for KE? I am not so much interested in what friends of friends say. I would greatly appreciate openminded info from pilots working at KE. I read mainly bad things but for sure there has to be some good things as well. Or I am too naïve?
I am currently working for an airline in the ME that can not be mentioned here. But seriously looking at other options. One of them KE or OZ but also considering VN.

Different people work at KE for different reason and either stay or leave for different reason, there seems to be a high turnover on the 737 fleets as the salary is not great and the route structure is very complicated.
On the wide body fleet movement is not so high but there are many guys on the 777 looking towards China at the moment purely for the money and the hope of early retirement, but there also seems to be problems with interview process there as hainan for example no longer have access to a 777 sim!
Traning at KE at the moment seems to be running at around four months, give it take a few days Assuming you don’t have any problems, if you fall a flight for whatever reason it can add days or weeks to your process, and the reasons can be completely pointless and just down to how the trainer feels on the day and if he likes you, very frustrating.
Most of the ground school is unnecessary and pointless considering the experience you’ll be showing up with, but it’s there train set so you just have to play the game. The airlaw exam however is serious and can be quite difficult to pass, many guys fail it at least once and some have been kick out for failing it four or five times, they do supply you with support and there is a bunch of info floating around for it but you’ll need to put in the hard work to pass it.
Get ready for a hr long bus ride each day to and from the hotel to HQ!
The main difference between KE and OZ is OZ require you to live in country full time with roster patterns to suit. I know little about VN but I am aware that they are intent on reducing there expat community.
There are strong indications from the company at the moment that they may be either increasing pay by a grand a month or increasing time off by two additional days a month, giving 11 days leave + 2 days Annual leave + 3 days travel!
The expat community in Seoul is pretty good, there are limited options around the hotel for entertainment but you can get by! However everyone’s hr are up at the moment on 777 fleet anyway so reserve days have all but gone off the rosters and Seoul is mostly just a night stop!
I don’t see KE being any different than any other airline in that there are many guys who have been in the company for 20+ years and there are many guys who hate it after two, it really is horses for courses, you either like it and stick it out or you don’t, but I can tell you one thing for a fact the Koreans just don’t care if we stay or leave.
Hope this helps!

[Flyingviking2018]

Thanks Dogsofwar. I appreciate your time to write the post. Much appreciated

[topgun909]

Hello all, I am training in the US to become a regional pilot. Upon completion of training I will be flying either a CRJ or ERJ.
My goal is to fly Korean Air. How would I be able to plan my career for flying long haul for Korean out of LAX.

Thank you

[bia botal]

Hello all, I am training in the US to become a regional pilot. Upon completion of training I will be flying either a CRJ or ERJ.
My goal is to fly Korean Air. How would I be able to plan my career for flying long haul for Korean out of LAX.

Thank you
You either need to be a Korean national or have the following experience!

https://kal-ccl.com/Apply-for-Korean-air-pilot-jobs?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxIbep7KH3AIVDTPTCh1MpQVcEAAYAiAAEgJbK fD_BwE#

[Arcla]

Anyone have any further info about them offering the extra two days off per month (11+2+ travel days)..... @dogsofwar - who was your source for this info. It would be a game changer for me. Practically 2 weeks on 2 weeks off.....

[flaphandlemover]

Hi chaps,
it has been a while that questions where asked about Korean. I am B777 guy and would like to get some more details again.
Has there been any changes in the last year? How easy is it to work from DFW? Is the base full?
Any ex EK guys here that can PM me for the EK whatsapp group to be added?
Thanks
FHM

[Luibar]

Any news about the A321 deliveries?

[alatriste]

Concerning taxation by advise that even though we do pay taxes in Korea ( about 20%) we are NOT tax residents. Therefore your income tax should be paid in your country of residence according to the Double Taxation Agreement with Korea. Different countries different agreements. Most cases you can deduct the taxes already paid in Korea when paying your country income tax. Some Tax Agencies are more strict than others, some pilots are more "relaxed" than others.