A 380 (Merged)

[fire wall]

Whitehatter and Overrun, I am not pushing any particular agenda here, just reporting the news. The French newspapers are already up in arms re the taxes being poured into EADS. This latest news will only add red to an end of fiscal year figures already with a tinge of red in them prior to this announcement, not to mention penalty payments due late deliveries which have not been made public.
If you feel an affinity for the product then good for you.....I have jumpseated on them many times (I fly the 747) and am impressed with some of the modes available that we do not have... but to dismiss such news as codswallop is putting your head in the sand and that is plain dumb.

[EGBM]

Excuse me if I've got the wrong end of the stick, but it doesn't half sound like people like Col Klink are DYING for Airbus to fail! Do they realise the effect this could have on thousands of livelihoods globally? This includes citizens in nations on both sides of the Boeing/Airbus axis as it is not the case that only US companies supply Boeing and European companies supply Airbus. "My airline manufacturer's bigger than your airline manufacturer" arguments appear childish and at the very least spoil reasoned debate on this thread and many others. Sheesh! :ugh:

Just an observation, carry on....

[ARINC]

Thank you EGBM saved me the effort.....As one of those currently caught up in this I find it particularly distasteful to see anti AB comments. There are many families that rely on income from jobs generated by AB. A little more thought before spouting forth with no real knowledge wouldn't go amiss.

[MarkD]

If Airbus not building freighters lets get on with designing an A380-900 which can at worst match the A388 on wake vortex and noise some airlines might be happy at this development.

[ORAC]

Flight International: Red-hot A380 completes heavyweight brake tests

The Airbus A380 has completed the last major test required for its full certification - the potentially hazardous maximum energy rejected take-off (RTO) demonstration - which Airbus describes as a "non-event".......

To comply with the certification requirements, the aircraft, which was equipped with 90% worn brakes, completed a 5km (3 miles) taxi during which it made four stops - one to simulate the higher residual idle thrust of the Engine Alliance GP7200-powered aircraft....

With an all-up weight of 575t - 6t above the current 569t maximum take-off weight offered for the A380 passenger version - the aircraft was accelerated down the runway to 166kt (307km/h) before being brought to a halt using spoilers and autobrake on the wheels, with the engines at idle. According to Rosay, Airbus did not have to shut down an engine as "there is no effect on the hydraulics".

The aircraft was stopped in a distance 20m (66ft) less than that calculated, says Rosay. "We were then required to taxi to the turn pad and wait 5min before any intervention is allowed. The fuse plugs enabled the tyres to begin deflating at around 3min as planned."...... Rosay says that by the 5min mark the tyres on all 16 braked wheels had deflated.

"We achieved 120mJ, slightly more than the target of 119mJ. At the end the brakes were pink," says Rosay, adding that everything performed as expected with no fire or damage to the aircraft.

Later in the day, the A380's wheels, brakes and tyres were replaced ahead of the ferry-flight back to Toulouse on 5 March.

[rotornut]

Airbus sends A380 on U.S. goodwill flight
Bid for contracts: Plane maker badly needs moral, financial lift

Bill Rigby
Reuters

Friday, March 16, 2007

Airbus is suffering through financial losses and corporate turmoil due to delays.

NEW YORK - Airbus SA will fly its A380 superjumbo to the United States for the first time on Monday, hoping the world's largest passenger jet will catch on with American travelers and win over skeptical U.S. airlines.

The 555-seat, double-decker plane with a wingspan almost the length of an American football field has racked up 156 orders so far, but none from U.S. airlines, which usually prefer Boeing Co. planes.

Signing up a U.S. airline would be a huge financial and morale boost for Airbus, which is suffering through financial losses and corporate turmoil due to delays on the huge plane, which is set to enter service with Singapore Airlines Ltd. later this year.

Even though some industry executives expect the A380 to be successful, U.S. carriers are not seen ordering any time soon.

"It doesn't look like there's anything's stirring," said Paul Nisbet at aerospace specialists JSA Research. "The timing is too early. Maybe 10 years from now it'll be in its heyday."

Airbus, owned by European aerospace group EADS, did not return a call seeking comment.

The massive plane, which needs special equipment to unload passengers, is significantly bigger than the biggest plane on Boeing's drawing board -- the stretched 747-8 "Intercontinental" jumbo, with 467 seats.

The two planes have a flight range of about 8,000 nautical miles (15,000 kilometers), but Airbus is touting better economics with the extra seats and improved fuel efficiency.

Still, U.S. airlines -- which have moved toward smaller planes for international routes in recent years such as Boeing's 777 mini-jumbo and its planned mid-sized 787 "Dreamliner" -- have shown no interest so far.

Just recovered from a five year slump after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the carriers are only now set to modernize their fleets but are unwilling to bet on the untested giant.

The plane is poorly suited for the routes of U.S. carriers, is too big, and has too many seats, US Airways Group Inc. President Scott Kirby said at the airline's media day on Wednesday.

The airline, one of Airbus' best U.S. customers, seems to represent the feelings of most of its rivals.

"American has never expressed any interest in the A380," said Tim Wagner, a spokesman for AMR Corp.'s American Airlines, the world's biggest airline.

The plane does not fit with American's plan to focus on the business-class market on its Asian routes, said Wagner.

The one ray of light for Airbus in the U.S. is International Lease Finance Corp. (ILFC), the world's largest plane lessor and one of the most influential plane buyers, which has 10 A380s on order.

"We believe there's still a market for that airplane," said John Plueger, ILFC's chief operating officer, in an interview last month.

"The industry will face mounting infrastructure limitations," said Plueger. "It just means planes will get bigger. We've known that for many years."

International air traffic will grow about 5.6 percent annually over the next few years, according to the International Air Transport Association. At that rate, global traffic will double by 2020.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/printedition/story.html?id=d8cc53ec-8987-4e76-b911-8796584fb7e7

[Bussdrvr]

You might say that the A380 tour is just like that of the Concorde decades ago, when it was introduced to the World and then finally making her way to the States with loads of fanfare and hype...but no sale! Just bad timing (no pun intended)!

[Taildragger67]

Further, it looks like it's still a tad on the fat side (and Tim Clark's clearly still not a happy customer):

Emirates Says A380 Overweight, Operating Costs Higher (Update3)
2007-03-15 13:14 (New York)


(Adds Clark's comments starting in seventh paragraph.)

By Emmet Oliver and Andrea Rothman

March 15 (Bloomberg) -- Emirates, the largest customer for Airbus SAS's A380, said the superjumbo aircraft is still overweight, adding to operating costs, and that it will seek compensation from the European planemaker.

“It will be six tons overweight from its original specifications” Tim Clark, president of Emirates, said in an interview today in London. “This is obviously going to mean more fuel burn.”

Emirates has 45 of the A380s on order and will take delivery of the first plane next year, 21 months behind schedule, because of manufacturing delays at Airbus. The Toulouse, France-based planemaker lost money last year for the first time because of the delays and expects to report a loss in 2007 as well.

“It will be an amount that is not insignificant,” Clark said of the higher A380 operating costs. “Airbus will come to the table on this. It will be negotiated.”

A spokeswoman for Airbus countered that the plane is meeting performance guarantees even if its maximum takeoff weight is 1 percent over the specification, which was set at 569
metric tons.

“Nothing has changed with regard to the weight of the A380 for the past three years,” spokeswoman Barbara Kracht said in a telephone interview from Airbus headquarters in Toulouse, France. “Flight test results have demonstrated we are meeting the guaranteed performance.”

The priority for A380 customers should be delivery of the aircraft more than compensation for earlier delays, said Clark.

“Get the damn thing out, get people flying in it,” he said.

There is a ``convergence'' between Airbus and Emirates on the compensation issue so timing is not a significant concern, Clark said.

“We're not going to go bankrupt because we don't have the penalties,” he said. “It will end up in a resolution to the satisfaction of all of us.”

Shares of Airbus parent European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co. rose 29 cents, or 1.4 percent, to 21.75 euros at the close of trading in Paris. The stock has fallen 32 percent over the last 12 months.

[highflyin]

Do a search on Google news about the introduction of the 747. You'll find all the same comments, rumours, speculation, worrying.

It seems that aircraft change but people don't. No wonder Europe lags behind the best emerging economies, what a bunch of sceptical backward thinking farmers you lot are (and yes I am European - not American).

[Bearcat]

A380 lands in United States for the first time

By Aimée Turner

The US John F. Kennedy International Airport today (19 March) welcomed the A380 as Lufthansa and European airframer Airbus completed the first ever commercial route proving exercise for the new aircraft.

The route-proving flight with 519 passengers and 26 Lufthansa flight attendants took 35 minutes to board and left Frankfurt at its scheduled departure time of 9:00am from the hub airports 25R runway.

The route proving programme assesses facilities for check-in, boarding, deboarding, fuelling, ground service equipment, catering, inflight entertainment and onboard climate.

The findings will allow ultimatelly an airline operator to draw up A380 scheduled service timetables on the basis of operational forecasts gained from route-proving.

The flights route passed over Cologne, Amsterdam, the North Sea, Manchester, Dublin, Shannon before heading out over the North Atlantic on an average latitude of 52 degrees north. It then followed the Canadian coastline before passing over Bangor and proceeding to its final destination.
Due to arrive at JFKs Terminal 1 at 12:30pm (Eastern), the aircraft landed ahead of schedule at 12:14am and even had to reduce its speed to allow awaiting US television camera teams to prepare for the arrival.

Lufthansa began its first commercial route proving exercise on March 17 with the touchdown of the A380 at Frankfurt Airport. On March 20 it is scheduled to fly from New York to Chicago will return to New York on March 21 and return the same day to Frankfurt, landing on the morning of March 21.

On Friday 23 the aircraft will depart for Hong Kong, returning on Sunday March 25 at around 15.10 where Lufthansa will attempt a two hour turnaround before the aircraft departs for Washington.

On March 27 it will return to Frankfurt where it will complete further ground tests before visiting Munich and then onwards to Toulouse.

Four Lufthansa flight captains navigated the wide-body jet together with two Airbus test pilots - the first line pilots to be qualiified to fly the A380.

Lufthansa has a total 15 A380s on order plus five options. The airline will receive its first aircraft in summer 2009 with deliveries due to be completed in 2015. Every tenth A380 manufactured will be delivered to Lufthansa making it the largest A380 operator in Europe.

[PAXboy]

It would seem that this was the super latest mode of the 380l with fully automated flight controls.... flight with 519 passengers and 26 Lufthansa flight attendants... It will certainly save a lot of money on flight crew. :rolleyes:

[Rainboe]

Bearcat- it would have been useful to quote the source of that article, with a reference.

[jfill]

Just watching the CNN video of the A380 landing at KLAX. Pretty impressive rudder inputs at touchdown but the nose wheel stayed close to the centerline throughout.

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/business/2007/03/19/vo.ca.airbus.landing.cnn

Wonder what the wind conditions were at arrival. Maybe the enormous wingspan requires a lot of rudder control similar to sailplanes.

Any thoughts from the "heavy iron" flyers?

[rotornut]

The Beeb's video and story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/nol/newsid_6460000/newsid_6466200?redirect=6466249.stm&news=1&nbram=1&bbwm=1&bbram=1&nbwm=1 >

[bomarc]

Wx at JFK for A380 landing...12:10 pm edt would be 16:10z

(early daylight savings time in usa)

METAR KJFK 191451Z 22008KT 10SM FEW160 SCT250 02/M08 A3039 RMK AO2 SLP290 T00171078 58004 $
METAR KJFK 191551Z 23011KT 10SM SCT250 02/M08 A3039 RMK AO2 SLP289 T00221078 $
METAR KJFK 191651Z 20011KT 10SM SCT250 03/M07 A3038 RMK AO2 SLP286 T00281072 $
METAR KJFK 191751Z 19017KT 10SM FEW140 BKN250 03/M06 A3035 RMK AO2 SLP278 4/002 933010 T00281061 10028 21011 58012


11knots....hmmmmm

[DONTTELLTHEPAX]

The following airports meet the FAA design standards for the A380:

Anchorage International Airport
Denver International Airport
Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport
John F. Kennedy International Airport
Los Angeles International Airport
Orlando International Airport
Miami International Airport
San Francisco International Airport

In addition, three airports can handle A380 cargo planes:
Memphis International Airport
Louisville International-Standiford Field Airport
Ontario International Airport (California)

Dulles International Airport and Los Angeles International Airport are close to being ready for the A380, according to the FAA.

[bomarc]

why the rudder wiggles:

I posted this as a new thread, but also want to cover it here...I hope you will respond both places:

---

I don't think it is anything to do with crosswinds. I think when the throttles are idled the engines don't come down at the same rate...perhaps the angle of the pilots hand not quite pulling throttles back.

anyway, the throttles and engines not coming back at the same instant (whether mechanical, electronic, or by hand) the plane wanders due to the assymetric thrust...then the pilot has to do a dance on the rudder pedals to keep the nose straight.

no proof, just a guess...I've seen pilots in other planes not retard engines/throttles and have to use rudder subconsciously to keep her going straight.

[Rainboe]

Don't do repeated postings 'because you want it discussed in different places'. Your theory is rubbish (18 years and 10,000 hours on 747s!). The aeroplane is very stable. I saw nothing unusual.

[11Fan]

Congratulations Airbus on a double event. :D

Despite rumors to the contrary, we wish you well. :ok:

Welcome to Los Angeles. !!!

[Halfnut]

Hummmmm a little ciphering tells me:

JFK isn’t that far from IAD

LAX and SFO are just up/down the coast from each other

MIA and MCO are in the same kingdom

But what do you file for your alternate when you go to DFW or DEN or ANC?

For bonus points what do you do when the cabin staff call forward and say they have the Little Old Lady (LOL) in seat 176Y in the middle of the aisle with the ADE out and you are over YYC?

[misd-agin]

Stable? 5, 6, 7, 8 or more rudder inputs? Abrupt flare? Crabbed at touchdown?

Painful to watch in 3-10 kts of wind. (reported LAX winds today during daylight hours)

Hopefully it was one of the Chief Pilots flying and not a future Training Captain.

[aviate1138]

Taildragger67 said in part.....
"Further, it looks like it's still a tad on the fat side"

Aviate 1138 remembers......
If you can cast your mind back to 1969 and the introduction of the 747? How many airports around the world had to be modified to accept the overweight?, underpowered early version. I remember a Pan Am 747 flying very low over the Berkshire countryside in 1970. How times have changed. Didn't runways and taxiways also have to be strengthened to take the 747?
Aviate 1138

[Rainboe]

Whatever is the problem that some people are having trying to accept that the aviation world is moving on? Just as in the early 70s, airport infrastructure had to be modified and changed to adapt to 747 operations, so the world has moved on to an even bigger aeroplane. The problem is? An old, mid 60s design is no longer right for pressing on with aviation for the next 40 years. The A380 is a fine, efficient, high capacity aeroplane, that will do the job. It is having no more introductory problems than the 747-100 had on and after introduction. In fact the 747 was a disaster with engine failures all over the place, flaps falling off, and electronic breakdowns. But it got fixed, after nearly taking Boeing down with it.
The A380 is coming, and it will work, and it will be a success, because it is right. Not right for US carriers- they have shown their preference for lighter twins/ETOPs operations. This thing will be bought in large numbers by the big European carriers and the successful Far Eastern carriers. As a high capacity people mover, it will knock spots off the 747. And looking at the design, it is all in place for significant stretching- what an efficient move that will be!
So let's stop carping that a delay for electrical problems and airport modifications is going to drag Airbus down! A bit of rudder waggling is not a problem- the 777 had excess rudder problems inflight that had to be fixed to stop the cabin crew throwing up! So how about welcoming a great new aeroplane......and say to ourselves:
*fuel is not going to run out next year
*airports that want to operate it will rapidly make the changes to do so
*it's a great machine that is going to be exciting when it is introduced
*it's less traumatic for the world than the introduction of the 747 in the 70s
*it is not having undue problems for the introduction of such a radical change
*even though the US won't buy it, others will. See if people want to fly in a 777 across the Pacific when the opposition is flying A380s!

[pumaknight]

I dont know if it was the camera angle, but how close were the engine nacelles to the ground on touch down. Some mightly bounce in those huge wings :bored: .

[EGBM]

Well said Rainboe, good post.

[sidestick driver]

Which A380 serial numbers was this that landed in JFK today? Would it be true to say that by the serial number, one them is Etihad's and therfore Etihad had two of it's aircraft at JFK today (A340-500 + A380)? Not sure which A380 landed at LAX.
Etihad has 4 of the test A380 aircraft under serial number 010, which also have the different engines to those that Emirates has ordered.

Just checking whose A380 aircraft these were that landed in the USA today by serial number on the order books.

[aviate1138]

Rainboe ended......
"See if people want to fly in a 777 across the Pacific when the opposition is flying A380s!"
Aviate 1138 muses....
We have had twin engined widebody gliders over or near the Atlantic some time ago but with this progressive extension of twin ETOPS times surely Sod's Law will cause a ditching, probably in the Pacific? The A380 with twin engines on each wing would be my choice for a long haul, mainly over the water, trip.
Aviate 1138
PS I listened to some dumb American news reader saying there are so few airports in the USA where the A380 could land. My view is that if it could operate out of relatively tiny Farnborough early on in its life surely nearly any US State airport could handle the A380 - not saying the passengers could get off though!!!! Or get on? :)

[barit1]

Which A380 serial numbers was this that landed in JFK today? Would it be true to say that by the serial number, one them is Etihad's and therfore Etihad had two of it's aircraft at JFK today (A340-500 + A380)? Not sure which A380 landed at LAX.

Reports I've seen say 001 was SYD-LAX, and 007 was FRA-JFK. Confirmation welcome though.

[parabellum]

Well, the optimism shown by some about the future of the A380 never fails to surprise me.

Around July last year I posted:

"Way, way back when the idea of a very large aircraft, (VLA), was first discussed both Airbus and Boeing set out their stall. Boeing did a market survey of their customers and soon realised that the required market for such an airframe simply wasn't there in commercial numbers. Airbus continued to push for a VLA project so Boeing offered them a consortium to spread the cost/risk. Airbus turned this offer down and said they would go head to head with Boeing on a VLA project.
Boeing, having properly surveyed their market, said "OK" and withdrew from the competition.

Airbus originally need 269 sold airframes to break even on the A380, this was way before delays and discounts to get the order book moving were properly considered. Right now with the extent of delay and the extent of penalty payments due, added to the extra costs of product development over and above budget then the A380 will need to sell between 500 and 600 just to break even.

The market simply isn't there. The airlines will happily accept the A380, in limited numbers, to fill a niche market, but that is all and they will want it properly supported, as per contract.

The A380 was intended as a B747 replacement with similar market share but that replacement is the B777 with all it's variants and those Airbus 340 that can compete. The A380 will never exceed fifty aircraft in any one company, unlike the B747-400 which exceeded 40 to 50 in quite a few companies.

The A380 is a dead duck and may well take Airbus down with it.

(All said before, a year or two ago, on these very same forums, no recent events could have influenced these predictions)."

I still think most of what I said then is true to-day, possibly a technical success but a hopeless commercial failure. In the days of the inception of the B747 the only competition came from the B707, the DC8, DC10 and L1011. It is a very different story today with a much larger spread of alternatives to the A380, many of them big twins.

Just my 2cents worth, once again.

[Taildragger67]

Barit,

My understanding was that both came across the Pond, but the one into KLAX operated in with a QF flight number for some reason.

ALso, put it this way - had it come through YSSY/YMML/YBNE, it would've made got a mention in the Aussie papers. Not a sausage, from what I've seen.

Well, not quite true, this article from the Melbourne Age (http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/lufthansa-qantas-in-dogfight-to-land-a380/2007/03/20/1174153063258.html) suggests it the KLAX one came direct from Toulouse.

Also, just to be a pedant, no A380 is "Etihad's". They are all still the manufacturer's problem at the moment. Indeed from reports it seems that the KJFK jaunt was at Lufthansa's behest, so Etihad have zippo to do with it.

Keep an eye on airliners.net, I'm sure some shots of both KLAX and KJFK visits will be on there soon, complete with rego's and C/Ns. :8

[EGBM]

"The A380 is a dead duck and may well take Airbus down with it."
Is this borne out of some degree of clairvoyancy or obsessively desperate hope? 747-800 anyone?
Just my 2 cents worth.

[Rainboe]

Parabellum,
The A380 was intended as a B747 replacement with similar market share but that replacement is the B777 with all it's variants and those Airbus 340 that can compete. The A380 will never exceed fifty aircraft in any one company, unlike the B747-400 which exceeded 40 to 50 in quite a few companies.

The A380 is a dead duck and may well take Airbus down with it.

All I can say is 'hopeful' nonsense! The American carriers don't want/can't afford it. The rest of the world does. I've seen the traffic on the Europe/Far East routes. Look at the traffic through Singapore/Hong Kong! Assuming no great recession, all the European majors need it for their Far East routes and Atlantic prime services. The Far East majors also for those routes, and trans-Pacifics. There IS a market there- Boeing are developing the 747-800 for it! But the A380 will have the added cachet. See how the opposition flying whacked out 767s and 777s (I think the A340 will fade away) will fare then!

Thank you for re-quoting your words. I hope they will be flung back in your face in a few years!

[Taildragger67]

Rainboe,

Different markets. You won't fill an A380 between Los Angeles and San Francisco - so NZ are right to put a 777 on that run - but you will fill an A380 between Singapore and Heathrow - so every man and his dog who is planning to, is right to run them on that run. Likewise you'd be barking to put anything bigger than a 767 between Manchester and New York.

To say that those running 767s and 777s on the same route won't be able to compete with A380s on the same run - that's a generalisation which cannot stand up to examination. Some carriers' business models will prefer one big run a day, whilst others will offer smaller aircraft more frequently. Under your logic, for example, KJFK-EGLL would today be run almost wholly by a smaller number of 747 runs. Instead, we have all the ex-EGLL carriers crowing about their frequencies - some of which are 747, but many of which are not.

Certainly there are some high-demand routes which will stand multiple A380 runs per day (eg. EK London to Dubai, which is why EK are buying 45 of them - and let's face it, it's not that big a leap from there to 50 airframes, which I am sure EK have in mind... ).

For others, it will be a chance to cut costs as if you do want to move 500 people a day from A to B, then it might be cheaper (considering landing and nav fees, G/H charges, etc.) to do it all in one big hit than two smaller airframes; but in doing so, you give your customers less choice in scheduling than with two flights. So horses for courses accoring to your business model and target market.

Whether one likes the look of the beast or not, there are some routes which will support an A380. Whether the manufacturer has over-estimated the number of such routes, only time will tell. We can argue about it all we like, as an EU taxpayer I hope it works so that my tax input (in whatever form) hasn't been wasted and I put a level of trust in all the EDHEC and INSEAD graduates crunching the numbers in Toulouse that there is a business case for it. It's called 'risk management' and every business does it in one way or another.

[parabellum]

Rainboe - In a rather untypical way you have totally missed the major point that I was making, (and which won't ever be flung back in my face;) ).
I agree, there IS a market for the A380, it is a niche market for a relatively small number of aircraft that will never, ever allow Airbus to break even. The opposition will actually be flying the B747, B747-800, B787 and possibly the A350 as well as some very young and able B777 of all variants.

So, it isn't hopeful nonsense at all to say that the A380 is a dead duck and may well take Airbus down with it. The European trade unions haven't finished yet so Airbus have some very difficult times ahead with the possibility of even further delays. At the moment the order book is shrinking which isn't a good sign.

Possibly a technical success but definitely a commercial failure.

[EGBM]

These are very confident predictions.

[Rainboe]

Taildragger, you have no concept of the market. BA alone has 57 747s, about the same 777s. On their prime markets, 3 LAX 747s could become 2. 3 SINs a day could become 2 380s. BKK could go to 2. HKG to 2, without taking much option away from the passengers. I don't know how many Qantas 747s plow up to the UK. SIA has an incredible number. CPT to 2 A380s a day, JNB. That is today's traffic. If the Far East economies keep expanding, we can add another A 380 to each of those places....a day. And that is just BA and the UK! When SIA, Korean, China, JAL start attacking the US West Coast, wherever you have 3 747s, 2 A380s will handle it, allowing a third before too long.

BA's hesitancy in ordering doesn't mean anything. In fact in the near future a 380 is coming to them to be closely examined. BA usually waits to place orders. I'm convinced in 20 years time, BA will be operating a very big fleet, SIA a ginormous one, JAL too. Meanwhile, US carriers, all in bankruptcy 'protection', will be telling everybody how knackered 777s and little 787s offer the customer 'a better travel experience'! Bit like their ancient 767s competing on prime routes.

Airbus is in nowhere near the situation Boeing was in 35 yeas ago. The 747 was close to breaking the company, and Seattle. And it had serious problems-gear collapses, excrutiating engine problems and flight control problems. Any airliner program has problems, that's why not every country can build them. Some of you are acting as if you'd never seen such a thing before. But now the spotters are up in arms.....over a 'firm' landing, a yaw on touchdown, rudders that deflect, engines that appear to be close to the ground, and wings that un-deflect on touchdown! Why do people who know nothing make so much noise?

[EGBM]

Well Rainboe I think cutting through the crap it boils down either to the fact it wasn't invented "here" or it hasn't got a Boeing sticker on it. If it did there would be exactly the opposite occurring where suddenly "new journey opportunities" would appear and airlines would be stupid not to buy it.

These claims are made fully in the knowledge that Boeing are trumpetting the -800 to challenge the A380.

It seems there is some sort of Boeing fan club that can't cope with not having the world's largest airliner anymore, much the same when there was no real challenge to Concorde and it was hounded out of the US.

Really not a very mature attitude and a strange one for a "spotters" forum where you'd think variety would be welcomed. Crackers. But disappointingly not unexpected.

[Taildragger67]

Rainboe,
Mate I don't doubt the numbers you say; however you miss my point. I am not thinking only of BA, but all the mid-size carriers. There are some city pairs where the market wants frequency - to use BA as an example, that's why EGLL slots get clogged by littlies doing zillions of runs a day to Paris, Zurich, etc. rather than just one jumbo a day at 9am.

To use the same example on longer runs, is there enough traffic to do three Bostons a day with A380s? No, there probably is for one, but the market likes the frequency.

As to the mid-sizers, I stick with my example of the Air NZs of the world. Will they fill an A380 on some of their routes? Maybe, but probably not reliably enough to be able to drag a half-full one around the rest of the time. For them, better a consistent 80-85% full 777, with excess demand meaning that they can hike prices, than an average 60% full A380. That's why they stuck with DC10s for years despite QF, PA/UA and others having jumbos on the Pacific runs and why they're now very happy to gradually phase out their 744s for long-halu twins.

Aer Fungus dropped their 747s for A330s, finding it better to offer a few (full) 330s a day across the pond, rather than a few jumbo runs. The 747s nearly bled them dry. They are not the only carrier to have retreated from very large (eg. 747) aircraft. Air Canada, Swiss, most US majors, SAS, TAP, Pakistan spring quickly to mind.

Airlines have gone to the wall with full aircraft in the past, where just to fill seats, they had to drop prices to where it became uneconomic.
Like I said before, the A380 does have a place. But so do the long-haul twins. The latter point is what your posts so far do not appear to appreciate.

[3DAero]

If anybody is interested in seeing the A380, here is its timetable for next Monday 26th March.

East Midlands Airport 11.20 - 11.30
RR Derby 11.30 - 11.40
Landing at BAe Filton (Bristol) 12.20 - 12.30

[Rainboe]

Taildragger
I don't doubt the numbers you say; however you miss my point. I am not thinking only of BA, but all the mid-size carriers.
I didn't miss your point. Your point was the A380 would not sell in enough numbers. Now you are talking about mid size carriers. I was making the point that the large carriers will buy the thing in enough numbers. I have no doubt AirNZ, PIA etc won't....it is not an aeroplane for mid-size or US carriers who want to concentrate on point to point- that is another discussion. The big people mover carriers will buy it big time. JAL needed 550 seat 747s 20+ years ago. In a few years we will be looking at stretched A380s- the design is begging for it. But the unique marketing and selling point of the A380 will be its size- just like the 747 which I couldn't wait to travel on and see.
And Aer Lingus had 747s for many years- I flew one of them, the famous 'PZ'. They could have gone for Trijets instead, but they didn't- eventually the A330 served its purposes better.
There seems to be a big problem with a lot of people unable to get their heads around this ratcheting-up in size in aviation. It's coming. It's needed. It was far more marked in 1971 when we went from 160-180 seat DC8s/B707s/VC10s to 350 seat 747s, just as the 1973 oil crisis and recession hit. Now we have a giant stirring in the Far East, the centre of this century's expansion- an enormous developing middle class who are starting to get cars and fridges- from the Gulf through to China. Next they are going to want to travel a bit and see the world as they get rapidly wealthier year by year. Western tourism is static under Governments overtaxing people to pay for their grandiose spending schemes. Much as I love the 747, having flown it for 18 years, it's not the aeroplane for the future. There is a place for 777/787/A350 point to point, but the big long range stuff is for A380. The 747 will make it great as freighters.

[andy_13]

That's so annoying about the A380 at EMA. I havn't been out of the UK for nearly a year and I have a 4 day holiday to Tuscany booked for 24th-27th,and I only live 10 miles from EMA! :{
Oh well I suppose Tuscany can't be too bad. ;)

[EGBM]

You might be able to catch it at Filton, Andy, I understand it's there for a week. Like you say though, Tuscany isn't a bad alternative:)

[parabellum]

Rainboe - can you please let me know what you are smoking? An absolute minimum of 600 airframes to break even, no chance!
Your optimism is admirable and your vision is euphoric, time to return to planet earth.

[Rainboe]

Well you put it so nicely! I don't actually smoke....anything, in fact I'm a rabid anti-smoker. But back to the point. There are 1294 B747s, even in competition with trijets, they sold that many. The 747 cannot carry on indefinitely- it is a basic mid-60s design. In 20 years, it will have no sparkle anymore (a 60 year old design). With aviation growing at more than 5% pa every year, even allowing for larger medium aeroplanes (inc.777!) nibbling away at the bottom of the mass mover market, the A380 will have no competition. The 747 will not be able to match seat/mile costs. So it will have the market to itself. I see no reason why, in an expanding world market, the A380 should not top that figure. As a big people mover, it has no competition, and stretched, it will wipe the market clean. It will sell- they're all looking at it, and waiting. There will be a sudden rush of orders. Look at the DC10, fine aeroplane, but it couldn't match seat/mile costs of the 747- so what happened to it? A nice parking spot in the desert.

Where did you get the figure of breakeven of 600? It started at about 240 and went up, but I question 600? Is that your assumption?

I'm off on my hols now, so some of you blinkered people can now convince yourselves it's doomed without argument!

[saman]

3D Aero, Thanks for the info - but suely you mean Airbus UK at Filton rather than BAe? BAe sold out but Airbus stays in Britain.

Enjoy the big bird!

Saman

[Curious Pax]

Agree with Rainboe. What I think is misleading people is the rush or orders for the 787, which is a totally different market. The usual timeline for these things is a number of launch orders, maybe a few prior to entry into service, and then an increase in orders once it has proved it can cut the mustard transporting the SLF. In this respect it is the 787 that is proving the exception to the rule, as Boeing have been lucky enough to shift enough units that airlines are almost being panicked into buying it as available delivery slots move further into the distance.

You can largely ignore the USA as far as passenger 380 orders is concerned - 777 seems to be the maximum size that they will buy. Don't forget that it is 6 years since NW ordered their last couple of 744s, and nearly 10 since United did so. I don't see any of the newer US carriers going for them either. India and China are the obvious places where few 380s have been ordered, and I would think that will change in the next 3 years.

[seacue]

What surprises me is the order rate for the 747-8. The first order was about 18 months ago and they've already sold half as many as all the A380s sold in about six years since the first order. I thought the 747-8 was supposed to be very ho-hum. Agreed that most of the orders have been for the freight version.

[gordonroxburgh]

BAe Filton is correct or rather BAe System Filton

The majority of the site, inc the airfiled is owned by them. Airbus lease parts of the site for their operation and a few years ago bought some of the older buildings which have recently been demolished for regeneration into New airbus facilities

[vapilot2004]

Read on the aero-news that the A380 had a hydraulic problem and was in HKG waiting for repair.

Did they get the thing sorted and is the visit to IAD still on the schedule?

[Kestrel_909]

vapilot2004,
is the visit to IAD still on the schedule?

It must be, passed overhead me about an hour ago in N.Ireland routing Frankfurt-Washington as DLH8948, F-WWJB.

[vapilot2004]

We may go have a look if I can get access. :ok:

[seacue]

F****tA***e says it is scheduled to arrive at KIAD at 8:28PM EDT Sunday,Mar 25. Better hurry if you want to get there for the arrival.
Oops, that's an hour after sunset.

So much for the schedule on F***A***. The report now says that the A380 touched down at 8:08PM EDT.


When is the scheduled departure from IAD?

[EGBM]

For info, an A380 has just completed its scheduled flypast of the Derby area. Can't quote a tail number but it was in all-white livery, extremely quiet and really quite impressive to be honest. Last seen pointing west...

Cheers.

[panda-k-bear]

Should just about be at Filton now if the Beeb website is corret. Is it going to be at Filton for the rest of the week as the Beeb is suggesting?

[Life's a Beech]

It flew past East Mids a little before midday.

[Mudfoot]

Got the chance to go to IAD to visit Big Bird early this morning (0630 local). Impressive in the early light of day.

WOW!

Preflight checklist being sorted out, so no flight deck tour. No gifties, either. :(

Cheers, y'all.

[EGBM]

Panda - yes I believe it is stationed there all week.

Mudfoot - was it F-WWOW :)

As a guess, today's A380 over Derby and at Bristol is F-WWDD (MSN004) if I remember rightly, I'm sure others can confirm this.

[Kestrel_909]

Preflight at IAD, where was it off to?

Keeping my eyes on the skies again :8

[Mudfoot]

EGBM: y'know, I didn't even look (DOH!) :ugh: , but I did get some pix & I'll see if I got the tail nbr. MSN is 007, I believe it was F-WWDD (or maybe not). Will check & advise.
K_909: public relations flight w/ press & guests, just going out for about an hour then returning.
About 12h25 (local) it came back into IAD from the north, flew right over my building which is about 3 mi N of the birdcage. What a sight!
Cheers, y'all.

[WATABENCH]

WOW indeed!, was at Filton this lunch time, came in from the west, slight wind strait up the strip did a fly past and came strait back round to land, seemed a great landing from where I was stood, main thought was just how quiet it was, was great to see it banking so low over the skies in Bristol on a beautiful warm spring day, nice one Airbus :ok:

[Angus McOatup]

Saw it fly down RWY 09 at East Midlands before going to do a couple of low passes over the RR works at Derby. Impressed by how quite it was.

There are some good pictures here:ok: ;

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk

[Rainboe]

Fantastic guys- I'd love to see it! How nice to see genuine enthusiasts commenting positively on a fantastic engineering achievement. And not one comment on this page that (let's see):
the engines are too near the ground
the wings are too waggly
the rudder is even more waggly
it waggles on landing
the waggles waggle too much
it's too big and it waggles

[EGBM]

It looked really quite a graceful and elegant aeroplane in the skies over Derby today, it was a privilege to see it. My wife, who's no aviation buff, was extremely impressed with the aircraft, especially the quietness and effortlessness of it.

We were both quite proud to see the town's engineering efforts in action, hats off to the Trent 900s.:D

[pod]

Great to see so many positive comments, anyone know where there are pictures of the go around at EMA (EGNX) .........

[Regular Cappuccino]

Try here -

http://www.midland-bernese-carters.org.uk/a380pics.htm

[WATABENCH]

Try BBC Bristol for Filton pics :ok:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bristol/
also great one here of it taxiing past Bristol Filtons Concorde
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=231902&command=newPage
And just echoeing an earlier post, my girlfriend who has no intrest in aviation at all, apart from chooseing expensive blinkin holidays, was just amazed at the sheer size of it and couldn't figure out how it was so quiet, bless her!

[Mike16]

Hi guys

I did comment on this yesterday at 13.08 hours and my thread has gone ????? this is sooo annoying, so i will try again.
Went to view this yeserday at EMA and it was amazing infact a big WOW, so BIG and sooooooo Quiet.
Also would like to say a big Well done to the people of Derby and the Rolls Royce team, how nice of Airbus to do this fly over to mark there hard work.


Thanks

Mike

[Rainboe]

Don't just judge it on an idle power flypast and a very low power approach- remember it's empty. No people, seats, furnishings. Really just the bare weight of metal, 3 people and minimal fuel!

[4 engines 4 longhaul]

How long is the A380 at filton?

[Legs11]

makes two test flights each day this week til Thursday and then leaves on Friday:ok:

[top_vapour]

Does anyone know what time it leaves on Friday? Or has that information not been disclosed by Airbus yet?

[APG]

A couple from Filton:

http://www.apg-photography.co.uk/apg/380.jpg

http://www.apg-photography.co.uk/apg/380-1.jpg

http://www.apg-photography.co.uk/apg/380-3.jpg

http://www.apg-photography.co.uk/apg/380-10.jpg

http://www.apg-photography.co.uk/apg/380-14.jpg

http://www.apg-photography.co.uk/apg/380-12.jpg

[Mudfoot]

Quote from Rainboe:
the waggles waggle too much

Sir, waggles are buyer-furnished equipment and were not installed on this a/c. Maintenance is prohibitively expensive this early in development. :p

Cheers, y'all.

[pod]

Ref the earlier comments........... "Don't just judge it on an idle power flypast and a very low power approach- remember it's empty. No people, seats, furnishings. Really just the bare weight of metal, 3 people and minimal fuel!"

The 'go around' at EMA was flown at TOGA (ie max thrust) and hence was as noisy as it ever gets, the approach I agree was flown at less than max power but still at representative levels. The second overflight of Derby (Sinfin) was again flown at TOGA power, set just prior to the pull up, turn and climb to depart to Hawarden. Plus the initial flypast was at reasonable levels of TPR, as was the initial fly through at Filton. In short, it is bloody quiet!

[Mr_Grubby]

I understand that an A380 will visit Heathrow this Sunday 15th Apr. on a demonstration visit for BA.
Arrive 09:50 from Toulouse
Depart 14:00 demo flight
Arrive 17:00 back
Depart 19:40 to Toulouse
Anyone able to confirm this ??
C.

[arem]

I recall reading today that it will be unlikely - BA have said they wont have any managers available to look over it due to it being the post-Easter weekend and everybody will be on duty!!:hmm:

[Rainboe]

I think the operative word is Sunday! Managers don't work Sundays, even for dratted Euro blunderbuses. Bit sad really, but BA seems to think it can get by without it!

[Sigmond]

Willie Walsh seems to think that BA may be interested in buying upto 15 A380s for specific routes....

[scudpilot]

anyone know which aircraft it will be?

Not a spotter, but bored with the all white colour scheme I have seen before (first proving flight to EGLL and Farnborough air Show)

[Rhys S. Negative]

It was to have been F-WWOW (c/n 001) but a report elsewhere says that the visit on Sunday has been cancelled (postponed?).

Rhys.

[scudpilot]

Times on Line (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article1637259.ece) are saying that as pointed out above, visit has been cancelled!

[llondel]

Given the pressure on landing slots, when there's an occasion such as a visit from the A380 for demos and testing, whose slots does it use? Or do BAA keep a few spares for such events?

[ORAC]

Emirates places $2.6bn A380 order

Emirates airline has signed a letter of intent with Airbus for eight additional A380s, worth an estimated US $2.6 billion. The deal brings the total number of A380 double-decker aircraft that Emirates has on order to 55. HH Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al-Maktoum, chairman and chief executive of Emirates airline and group, signed the agreement with Airbus president and CEO Louis Gallois, at the Paris Air Show.

Qatar orders worth $17 bln boost Airbus book

European planemaker Airbus landed $17 billion in orders from Qatar Airways at the start of the Paris air show on Monday including a new order for three A380 superjumbos.... Qatar had already ordered 3 of the A380 superjumbo aircraft with options for another two.

[rotornut]

Airbus superjumbo for private use

An unnamed buyer at the Paris air show has placed an order for an Airbus
A380 superjumbo to use as a private jet.

Airbus said the individual, "not from Europe or the US", would use the plane for "personal use for him and his entourage", AFP news agency reported.

The double-decker, which is thought to have cost $300m (£150m), has 900 sq m (10,000 sq ft) in cabin space and has room for up to 840 passengers.

It is expected to take more than a year to convert the jet for private use.

Aage Duenhaupt, a spokesperson for Lufthansa Technik, which turns large commercial planes into private jets, said the majority of clients were originally Middle Eastern.

But using the model as a private jet could be problematic, because its weight and size mean it can only be landed at a limited number of airports, by certain pilots.

Environmental groups were annoyed by the news, saying that buying a superjumbo for private use was like "buying a filthy coal-fired power station just to use to charge up your mobile phone."

The model is set to come into use later in 2007.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/business/6768237.stm

Published: 2007/06/19 15:20:47 GMT

[bnt]

Well, the latest scoop is the name of the alleged buyer: a certain Russian oilgarch who likes to wear a blue scarf on Saturdays.

If true, it might not have the "waggles", but it may have to deal with a few WAGs... :cool:

[L1011dal]

Check out the extreme flying and photos of the A380 at the Paris Air Show.
http://www.l1011.homestead.com/ParisA380.html

[GeorgEGNT]

My friend is on holiday at Nice and has claimed to have seen an A380 3 or 4 times through the week either taking off or landing can anybody shed some light on this ?

[markespana]

As this is the Rumour section can somebody please tell this one is'nt true.
I've heard this from a source within Ba Eng.

[Hotel Mode]

Probably is true. 12-15. Find out within a fortnight.

[3Greens]

What's the problem?
i'm a Boeing man but pleeeease lets not turn this into a A v B thread. Personally don't care who builds the planes, more what it represents for BA and i think this can only be a positive step if true.
Some expansion as opposed to fleet replacement would be fantastic and possiblty help to raise the low morale at BA.

[Captain Planet]

3 Greens,
there was no mention of Boeing in the thread so far,where did you get that out of??????:confused:

I say good for Airbus,orders for the 380 are badly needed.

[RogerTangoFoxtrotIndigo]

If BA do go A380 maybe they do what Qantas did and take some A330's first to get experience of large Airbus aircraft?

To me the A330, A350, A380 option has aways seemed the most suitible for BA as larger aircraft = more preimum capacity which is their stated operating model.

A330 next year (on lease from Airbus a'la singapore air) for growth and to begin 767 replacement, option to be replaced by A350 in the future, A380 soon to take up some of the defered aircraft (to get them off of the airbus lot) has to be a sensible deal for all involved.

[Sirius Flying]

I may confirm that BA is ... seriously interested. There should be some BA pilots around that know more about it.

[LongGoneSilva]

Current rumors on flight deck fm are that the 380 no longer fits in with Branson's long term vision and BA could take on Virgin's 6 orders and that Airbus are offering Buy a 380, get a 330 free.

Large pinch of salt and all that...

[FullWings]

I don't doubt that if "the price is right" BA would buy a small fleet of A380s. There are a handful of routes that have (or potentially have) high volume and/or are restricted by aircraft slots or night bans. Jo'burg, Hong Kong, Sydney and India come to mind straight away. I think Airbus will provide some very keen pricing/deals because if BA gets it, many others will automatically follow suit. (Whatever you might think of BA, this is true.)

We'll find out for sure in a couple of weeks...

[bigmountain]

BA + Boeing and Airbus

Usually Boeing first and then Airbus
regards
BM = Boeing Man

[mutt]

Can anyone tell me who was the last airline to order the A380 and when?

I havent heard much about recent sales.

Mutt

[Hook]

At Le Bourget EK increased their order by 10 aircraft to 55. (according to the CEO also looking to doubling their current order......wonder who's gonna fly them:bored:)

[Ahua]

Details on another website, planespotters.net I think.

Seen that Roman Abramovich has ordered an A380 "Flying Palace"!!!

It's just makes more sense than a BBJ!!!!!:E

[The SSK]

Willie is in my building today. I'll nip upstairs at lunchtime and ask him.

[sidtheesexist]

This rumour is oft discussed on the flightdeck - on some routes eg HKG where we have 3 services a day I believe, it would make sense to have 380s. My own view is that we should wait a yr or 2 to let the ac bed in with other operators - I think there will be numerous gremlins/problems to iron out - with the ac itself but also form a ground-handling viewpoint. Just my own thoughts...............Personally, I'd love us to get some 330/350s.........

[Zeke]

sidtheesexist,

The A380 has several years of order backlogs, BA would not be getting them in the first 2 years anyway, they are going to SQ, QF, EK.

The EY aircraft could be used, they have delayed delivery.

:cool:

[Dan Air 87]

Given BA's affection for Boeing products, I reckon that BA will order the new 747-800 pax version. I can't see BA buying the A350 either as its still on the drawing board and has been rehashed so many times. Also, the folks at BA should remember that being an Airbus long haul customer is not the easiest thing in the world-just ask LH and EK about their A340-600's. Even if BA get the A380 at + 2 years from now, due to the slow production schedule, not that many will have been nailed together and so I would be surprised if they would have cured the bugs in this time.

No chaps; if you want a long haul plane you go to Boeing.

[glad rag]

No chaps; if you want a outdated long haul plane you go to Boeing but remember to bring your own "nails"!!

:}

[Zeke]

Dan Air 87,

"just ask LH and EK about their A340-600's."

EK do not operate the A340-600. They have recently increased their order of A380s to 55 aircraft. Recent new articles indicate that they are talking about doubling that order to over 110 total A380 airframes.

LH less than a year ago placed a follow on order for A340-600s on the same day they ordered the 747-800i. Recent rumours is that LH is looking at converting their 748i into 748Fs. If that goes ahead, no airline will have passenger version on the books, just a few VIP aircraft.

"due to the slow production schedule"

On top of aircraft to be delivered this year, 13 A380s will be delivered in 2008, 25 in 2009, 45 in 2010, which is about half of the order backlog. Production has not stopped, it is ramping up, QFs MSN 26 (the first with all new wiring harnesses) is well under way and should be powered up before the end of the year.

:ugh:

[glad rag]

.....well said.

[Dani]

There are still guys around who compare the 748 to the 380. This is a complete different segment, like the smaller 787 and the 350 btw.

In a few years time, BA is forced to order the 380, simply because all its competitors operate them. It's basically just about 20% bigger than anything else, so the only chance to spread fix costs on bigger pax numbers is flying bigger machines - on the volume market.

See LH, they ordered the 748 and the 380, saying exactly what I stated above. SQ ordered the 787 and the 350. I could go on and on.

Dani

[Algy]

Why I'm posting this link I don't know as it will make me look pretty dumb in two weeks' time if I'm wrong. (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flight-international/2007/03/british-airways-will-order-air.html) But hey, just a bit of fun.

[Joetom]

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2005/05/03/197483/the-long-hello.html
.
The above link is worth a read

[Pibby]

Does anyone have any idea when the A380 is entering service in the UK? Or has it not yet been announced?

thanks

Pibby

[chornedsnorkack]

It has not been announced. However, the ideas are around.

The first SQ A380, number 003, enters service on 28th October, daily SIN-SYD. Singapore has, I think, announced that the second route would be SIN-LHR. This is too long for a daily trip with just one plane. However, it is thought that SQ is willing to serve the route 3 times in a week - as soon as they have their second plane. This is number 005, and is supposed to arrive sometime in January.

[towrope]

Does anyone know the approx departure time for the big bird's visit to SFO today? I'd love to sneak out of work a little early to get a good pic or so of it. Depending on which runway they use you can sometimes get some great pics from the mega-store parking lots in South San Francisco.

[Mudfoot]

Check this out, neat site:

http://www.a380delivery.com

Big Bird's gonna be a crowd pleaser, she is. Big ceremony planned.

Cheers, y'all.

[panda-k-bear]

And now Grupo Marsans has announced an intention to purchase 4 A380s, 2 for Air Plus and 2 for Aerolineas Argentinas, as part of a larger Airbus package.

[drichard]

I have just watched the delivery of the A380 to Singapore airlines. Very nice aircraft. The CEO made some interesting comments along the lines of "You have to look after your crew and pilots", I thought this was obvious but it looks like they've actually put some bits in to make a difference - mirrors, larger galleys ergonomially designed to minimise lift and twist operations, and even foldaway seats in the galleys. The Airbus representative was indicating that they expect other airlines to adopt some of these ideas.

[silverelise]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7043812.stm
Anyone know what the seat/class configuration is?

[gsky]

According to Flight Int today, (cutaway)
SQ have 60 business class seats on the upper deck.
None on the lower

[bjones4]

Anyone know what the seat/class configuration is?

R12 J60 Y399

Main Deck:
Suite (R) 12 (Door 1 <-> Door 2)
Economy (Y) 311 (D2 <-> D5)

Upper Deck:
Business (J) 60 (-> D7 <-> D8)
Economy (Y) 89 (D8 <-> D9 ->)

With the suites, there are twelve seats but ten suites, rows 1/2/3/4 A&K are single suites, rows 3/4 C&D are doubles.

[Sunburnt]

Airbus delivers first superjumbo (From BBC website)


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif
Airbus has delivered its first finished A380 superjumbo jet to Singapore Airlines, 18 months behind schedule.
The construction of the A380, able to carry up to 800 passengers, has been beset by persistent and costly delays.
It has also been overshadowed by allegations of insider trading against managers at parent company EADS.
Chief executive Thomas Enders said the delivery of the world's largest commercial jet aircraft was "the latest milestone in a long journey".
Singapore Airlines took delivery of the double-decker plane at Airbus headquarters in Toulouse, at a ceremony attended by more than 500 people.
It will be flown to its new home at Singapore's Changi airport on Wednesday.
The aircraft's first commercial flight will take place on 25 October, when the A380 takes off for Sydney.
"I realise how unsettling recent times, particularly the last 18 months, have been, but that only serves to make this achievement all the more impressive," Mr Enders told Airbus employees at the ceremony.
'Overcoming obstacles'
Airbus said on Monday it was on track to meet its target for A380 deliveries in 2008 and did not envisage further delays.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif This has been a very difficult delivery and the troubles will resonate for some time http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif


John Nance, aviation analyst,
on A380



Le Journal du Dimanche had reported on Sunday that Airbus remained worried about deliveries and had introduced a new set of measures last month to weed out any further delays.
To meet its revised production schedule, Airbus must hand over 13 completed planes in 2008 and four every month in 2009 and 2010.
Delays to the flagship project have cost Airbus 6bn euros (£4.17bn; $8.5bn) and analysts believe the planemaker must now sell 420 models to make a profit on it.
It currently has 189 confirmed orders and tentative sales agreements in place.
Mr Enders and other executives have been under scrutiny for their role in the sale of EADS shares before the announcement in June 2006 that the A380 project would be delayed, news which led to a slump in the company's share price.
The matter is currently being investigated by French prosecutors but Mr Enders, other senior managers and EADS shareholders have all denied any wrongdoing.
Boeing problems
Many analysts remain to be convinced that Airbus' gamble on the success of the A380 - driven by what it believes will be ever-growing demand for long-haul travel between key global destinations - will pay off.



"It is something to celebrate when you launch a new airplane and get it turned over to a client," said John Nance, a US aviation analyst.
"But this has been a very difficult delivery and the troubles will resonate for some time.
"I am sure she will fly well and it is a magnificent achievement but I think it is a white elephant." Airbus is battling with rival Boeing for supremacy in the civil aviation manufacturing market. Boeing revealed recently that production of its new 787 aircraft - known as the Dreamliner - would be delayed by six months, leading some airlines to call for compensation.

[gtadxb]

http://www.gillesvidal.com/rue89/airbusA380.htm

[dazdaz]

"Singapore Airlines took delivery of the double-decker plane at Airbus headquarters in Toulouse"

Forgive me i'm not a pilot, who pays for the fuel for the Singapore leg home? Does it come with full tanks? As a new car?

Daz

[glad rag]

Nice positive posting as per usual re Airbus :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[PaperTiger]

Nice positive posting as per usual re Airbus.I've umm... discussed John Nance before. Suffice it to say he lives in Tacoma which is 33 miles from Seattle.

[hetfield]

According German Magazine SPIEGEL the Air Mobility Command made an Inquiry for A380 to EADS for possible replacement of Air Force One.

For my opinion, it's more likelihood that Mr. Bush will travel in a blimp before he puts his feed in an airbus.:ugh:

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,512642,00.html

[peterperfect]

hetfield, I agree: it will not happen as long as his proverbial is earth-tied. The blimp hopefully would be from CargoLifter.

Might have a chance renamed the Boeing 380 to go with his new EH 101 helicopters.... sorry Lockheed Martin VH71s.

pp

[ChristiaanJ]

Edited (posted link at the same time).

Unlikely story.
The moment Dubja has been put out to grass next year, the new President/Senate/Congress would be sure to cancel the whole deal.

[hetfield]

http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=19940

:D

[Kliperoo]

Airbus for Bush...well it seems like his backward thinking...although does the US Military not have something written that they cannot buy foreign equipment if the same type is produced in the US?

[ATC Watcher]

By the time this A380 will be delivered ( if indeed they order it ) it will be a long time since Bush is forgotten !

But that will be a sweet revenge for Hillary and Bill ( Bill was in Toulouse two weeks ago wasn't he? officially to promote his book I believe. )

[SaturnV]

Will never happen.

They are replacing the Marine One (Presidential) helicopter fleet with new helos based on an Augusta/Westland design, but those helos will be assembled in the United States by Lockheed Martin.

Air Force One flies into a lot of airports that do not, and will not, have ground facilities/equipment capable of handling an A-380.

Congress WILL NEVER appropriate money for the Air Force to buy an Airbus to replace the President's airplane. There is a provision of United States law known as the Buy America Act. Though its requirements can be waived under certain circumstances, its unlikely the A-380 as a Presidential aircraft would ever qualify for a waiver.

For example, the United States no longer manufactures passenger railway cars, or subway/Metro/underground cars for that matter. All such railway cars are manufactured overseas, and shipped to a plant in the United states for assembly. This is the Buy America Act coming into play, even though the re is no U.S. manufacturer for such equipment anymore. So if the U.S. military were ever to buy a fleet of Airbuses, quite likely these would have to be assembled in the U.S.

[Payscale]

airbush:8 Things That Make You Go ...hmmmm

[VIE_PAX]

According to the german magazine "Der Spiegel", the AMC currently evaluates the purchase of A380 Fs as the planned C-5 modification program seems to be "slightly" more expensive than originaly projected.
Further, the article states that the AMC aditionally requested data on A380, A346 and A332 VIP versions as possible replacement for the aging AF1 (a B742, right?).

The entire article can be found here (sorry, but only in German though) : http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,512642,00.html

Any thoughts on this from your side? I mean could you ever imagine the US president flying arround in this status symbol not "made in the US"?
On the other hand - if size really matters.... :}

[barit1]

Might have a chance renamed the Boeing 380 to go with his new EH 101 helicopters.... sorry Lockheed Martin VH71s.

Now what ever happened to the MacNamara-izing of aircraft designations? We all saw how the bombers are no longer in the B-70++ designations, nor fighters in the F-111++ range (with the notable exception of the F-117, now obsolescent, which wasn't really a fighter but rather an attack velicle).

But helos progressed for a while through single digits (UH-1, H-2, SH-3...) then reverted to the old series (CH-53, ... OH-56...UH-60... ) and now we have the VH-71.

Who is putting out these nonsystematic designations, and who do they think they are fooling? (Wait, wait, don't tell me...) :ugh:

[GHB100R]

Hey Everyone!

Not much to say but one of my friends is buying a company and the company have bought him one of the 1st Class suites on the A380. He's going on Singapore Airlines' first commercial flight on the 25th Oct. Asked him to get some pics and i can't wait to hear what it was llike. One of the suites went for over US$100,000!

Let me know if anyone you know is going on one of these flights.

GHB100R

[FlyingHigh1989]

Just to make sure everyone knows :O

Anyone know a good place to watch it t/o live?

Thanks

[Fropilot]

This will be a historic moment in Civil Aviation. The fact that one of the best airlines in the world will be the first one to do so is good. ( For those old enough you might remember the concorde with SIA if it not good enough they will chuck it.)
I have seen the A380 upclose and it is not a monster but a very utilitarian designed plane and it is BEAUTIFUL.
Some of have sat in a B747-400 operated by some major carriers from Africa with less legroom than on a turboprop. On some routes the B744 just cannot cope.

[FlyingHigh1989]

yes it will be a very historic moment, im still trying to find somewhere to watch it, because im getting a feeling, SkyNews and BBC24 are not going, does anyone have any ideas?

[OAB11D]

Just had a look at BBC news 24 they are showing it between other stories.

My first post on PPrune

[FlyingHigh1989]

ye i just saw it the, seamed very slow t/o lol, but didnt use as much rwy as that 747-400 that woman fort it was the a380! lol ;)

[212man]

Anyone know a good place to watch it t/o live?

Maybe near the threshold of Changi 02R? :E

[training wheels]

Here's the media coverage from Singapore based Channel News Asia (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/307655/1/.html). SQ 380 due to arrive SYD ahead of schedule at 1710 local. :ok:

[PAXboy]

FlyingHigh1989but didnt use as much rwy as that 747-400
That might have something to do with it carrying (a reported) 450 pax, so it would be very light.

[Fly3]

It would indeed light but not because of the pax load, which was full, but because it was only flying to Sydney and so the fuel tanks were probably only half full.

[AN2 Driver]

Does anyone know the route or has a copy of the ATC Flightplan?

[Airgus]

:D
http://edition.cnn.com/video/

[Barnaby the Bear]

I would like to know what the reporter was drinking on the way over!!!!:}

[Mudfoot]

Who cares, I'm still green with envy. :( (err, blue?)

Cheers, y'all.

[1DC]

Just had a reporter on local radio, described as their air correspondent, talking about the A380 landing in Sydney.You will be happy to know that the plane's two engines were made in the UK...

[Mudfoot]

... and the other two?!? :confused:

(coat, hat, skyway...)

[ronca]

I was lucky enough to win the charity auction bid for a biz class seat on the first A380 from Singapore to Sydney yesterday. It was great to be part of this historical aviation event. There was a great party atmosphere on the flight. The SQ cabin crew did a valiant job serving the punters whilst over 70 jouros and about 10 TV crews were scurrying up and down the aisles interviewing everyone in sight. The CEO of SQ and the Pilot Capt Ting came through and chatted to many pax and presented commemorative certificates. Also bags of memorabilia that will probably end up on e-bay. The operation was typical SQ efficiency, taking off just a little late and landing on time. Jetway took a few mins to attach at Sydney but otherwise operationally faultless. Landing was perfect. The most noticeable things about the aircraft are a) much reduced interior noise (even at the back) and the feeling of space inside the cabins, both upstairs and down. From a pax perspective it is an excellent aircraft to fly on and the biz class seats are to die for. With the SQ config of only 470 passengers the experience in all classes is better than the 744. Lots of press coverage in Sydney last night and today. I think it will be very popular with the punters - now all Airbus has to do is sell enough of them to make some profit !

[WHBM]

....The most noticeable things about the aircraft are a) much reduced interior noise (even at the back)....
A standard Airbus cabin feature compared to comparable Boeings, especially at the rear. How do they do it ? More soundproofing ? Engines set further outboard ?

[AN2 Driver]

Hi Ronca,

thanks for your report. Must have been great to see history happen.

Incidently, can you remember what the departure gate was at SIN and the arrival gate at SYD? I have tried to find out which of the gates there are A380 equipped but so far no joy.

Best regards
AN2 Driver

[allthatglitters]

Departure gate F31 from SIN. Take off from 20C

[mphysflier]

...and the arrival gate in SYD was gate 57.

[keesje]

I've seen many entertainment systems. older ones just have distributed movies, then their came the simple games. These days you can get audio and video on demand, outside looks, flight information and even some live tv on carriers like Jetblue. Wonder what Singapore airlines will do to keep ahead of the pack..

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z160/keesje_pics/krisworld.jpg?t=1193822591

[3Greens]

So is this a rumour or news? Neither methinks. :ugh:

[outofsynch]

sounds like advertising to me!

[Fizix]

A tube is but a tube, whether it's a 380 (a big tube) or a video system (no longer a tube at all really). I don't understand the problem, keesje.

[Dream Land]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :(

[PAXboy]

Airline bans A380 mile-high club
Singapore Airlines A380

Singapore Airlines has taken the unusual step of publicly asking passengers on its new Airbus A380 plane not to engage in any sexual activities.

The potential problem has arisen because the first class area of its giant superjumbo contains 12 private suites complete with double beds. Singapore, said the suites were not sound-proofed and it did not want anyone to offend other travellers or crew.

continues ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7071620.stm

[Just a spotter]

Nov. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS plans to build a 900- seat version of its A380 superjumbo. Emirates, the aircraft's biggest customer, said it would buy the new model.http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aFDn7WN3Sybc&refer=europe

JAS

[scudpilot]

Hi All,
Not sure if this has been covered anywhere else, does anybody know if there is a site that details of airbus delivery schedules for examples aircraft type and date. Just curious to get some idea of expected dates for delivery of A380's

[Check Airman]

When is A380 no. 2 scheduled for delivery again?

[Buzz Control]

11th Jan 08.

[HH6702]

is the second aircraft going to fly to LHR?

[Buzz Control]

Airbus has delivered SQ's 2nd A380 (MSN005) with handover done today at TLS: http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre/pressreleases/pressreleases_items/08_01_11_delivery_2nd_a380_sia.html

[glad rag]

http://www.gillesvidal.com/blogpano/cockpit1.htm

[hetfield]

Where ist the Gym and Sauna?

[lomapaseo]

Criminey!!!

I've got a 2560X1600 resolution screen and that was something to behold. I've never seen anything like that fill my screen before.

[Will Hung]

Awesome ! What's the stirrup shaped thing either side ?

[wobble2plank]

Possibly the DV window opening device????????? :}

[Dysonsphere]

Er wheres the DVD/MP3 player

[darrylj]

woww fascinating!.
thank you.

[Blues&twos]

Clearly the designers weren't "good with colours".

[Dr Brian Evans]

No Ashtray ??

[HeadingSouth]

I like that "laptop" behind the RHS. The one I bought in 1997 with a 486 processor and a whopping 2 MB of RAM looks pretty much the same.................

btw, are all airbus cockpit doors that narrow, or is it just methinks.... ??

[chiglet]

3 Jumpseats and nine cup holders.....:ok:
Thanks for sharing
watp,iktch

[broadreach]

Thanks, Kitsch,

You've provided the new benchmarck for my office. I may have more computers, with bigger monitors, on the desk, but wouldn't I like to have the gazillions to spend on, err, improving them. Then (bulb lights up over hed) if I had the gazillions I wouldn't need all the monitors, etc...

[chris.dever]

Great photo...
Now I've never flown a Airbus - only flightsim. But it must be bloody hard to go from FO (with RH stick) to the Left hand side and have to use the LH stick!


Edit edit edit .... before you start - I realise that its also possibley the easiest bit!

[Shunter]

Is that a crew rest area entrance behind the P1 seat?

[jauh]

I like the escape hatch behind the PIC seat... Anyone knows where they put the chutes?

[Xorthis]

Wow amazing... Is that an HUD on the PIC seat? :ok: Also, cup holders, something that looks like a CCTV camera (does that send data to the black boxes?), loads of room and even escape ropes! Look how high up the flight deck is... taxing must be fun!

That tail mounted camera should prove invaluable in diagnosing engine fires too.

What's that device slotted in above both sets of rudders? Is it another pull out display/computer or just a table for meals? Also, what are the grey domes just below the flight computer keyboards?

Chris.d I was thinking exactly the same thing... maybe FOs in an airbus log way more P1 hours than in a Boeing if the Capt. is right handed? ;)

[CargoOne]

erghhh.... where is ashtray???!!!

[BEACH KING]

How the hell do you get into and out of the thing with that BIG centre console stack?

[Jet Jockey A4]

Awesome! Very well done.

[BigHitDH]

@ BEACH KING

Power seats, they move aft and outboard so you can get in without climbing over the pedestal.

[NABLAG]

Two questions that someone may be able to answer;

1. When is the A380 due to commence scheduled flights to Heathrow ?
2. Is anyone aware of any A380 test flights that are planned to the USA (or North Atlantic) in the next few months ?

Thanks chaps

[bjones4]

1. When is the A380 due to commence scheduled flights to Heathrow ?
Following delivery of 9V-SKC, LHR services start on March 18th with the SQ322.

[Mudfoot]

NABLAG

2. Is anyone aware of any A380 test flights that are planned to the USA (or North Atlantic) in the next few months ?

Test flights (called "visits") were extensive last year, both east and west coasts and Canada, both to show off the a/c and to determine suitability for service, landing/runway, taxiways, etc. The airlines who will fly here will undertake route proving at some point, so I'd suggest watching the operators' websites for announcements concerning new route start dates.

Cheers, y'all.

[Geezers of Nazareth]

Just updating the info about the SQ322 flight on 18th March ...

this is (I seem to remember) an early morning arrival (ie, 5/6am) and a late morning departure, but for this one day only it is expected to arrive at about 3pm and depart later that evening.

[NABLAG]

Cheers for the replies.

It will be nice to be in LHR on 18th March.

[trident3A]

Hi,
Planning to go down and see this arrive next Month. According the runway alternation it should arrive 27L, but then as it's due at 1505 it's a bit close to the alternation. Anyone know in advance whether it will be one or the other? (assuming westerly ops).

Thanks

[bjones4]

IIRC all A380 operations are restricted to 09R/27L until modification work on and around 09L/27R is complete sometime this year.

[chornedsnorkack]

What are the next A380 models Airbus would build?

Boeing 747-100 entered into service in January 1970. In June 1971, KLM started service of Boeing 747-200, with increased MTOW.

Douglas DC-10-10 entered into service in August 1971. In 1972, Douglas started delivering DC-10-40 and DC-10-30, with new wing, extra middle leg and increased MTOW.

Boeing 707-320 came out not very long after Boeing 707-120.

How much growth capacity is built into the Airbus 380-841?

The MTOW is 569 tons. There are mentions of MTOW like 590 tons, 625 tons, 650 tons...

Airbus 340-600HGW has MTOW of 380 tons and wing area like, 427 square metres. Which is barely more than half the 845 square metre wing area of A380.

If you want to build an A380 model whose wing loading, stall speed and runway length is similar to A340-600HGW, you get MTOW of about 750 tons!

So, what would be the next A380 models? And when would Airbus be ready to deliver them?

Boeing designed and built Boeing 747-400ER to satisfy a single order for 6 planes - the Qantas ones.

Qantas wanted 747-400ER for the MEL-LAX route. 12 800 km, and LAX-MEL is westwards - 747-400 non-ER has payload-range restrictions.

Qantas 380-841 would enter into service on the same MEL-LAX, because SYD-LAX is comfortable for 747, but even 747-400ER still struggles on MEL-LAX.

SQ wants to use A380-841 on HKG-SFO - 11 200 km. SQ was worried that A380 would struggle with payload-range on the westbound side nevertheless. Now that A380 is flying SIN-SYD, they discovered that the fuel burn is several % better than Airbus promised - it would also be better on SIN-LHR and SFO-HKG...

EK plans flying A380 DXB-JFK (11 000 km).

There are a number of routes now flown by A340-500 and B777-200LR. EK has DXB-GRU (12 200 km). PIA has KHI-JFK (11 700 km). Indian has JFK-BOM (12 500 km). Singapore has A340-500 struggling on SIN-LAX (14100 km) and SIN-EWR (15 400 km).

Are there any attractive routes which are slightly beyond the range of the now A380 and which have sufficiently large demand to fill A380-800 rather than A340-500 or B777-200LR?

[DILLIGAFF]

Does anybody know if SQ are planning to do any route proving flights to LHR with the A380 prior to the first scheduled service on the 18th of March?
D

[oncemorealoft]

I thought SIA had their first commercial A380 due in LHR later today. It's not showing up on their web site which lists all the SIA-LHR flights as 747-40os.

Any news?

[The Listener]

http://www.flightglobal.com/home/default.aspx

Took delivery at beginning of this week...first commercial to LHR due on 18 March! ;)

TL

[hard_landing]

I thought it was due into heathrow on the 18th

[mutt]

chornedsnorkack

You are quoting a lot of distances, would you kindly expand on if you mean great circle distances, Still Air Distances or ESAD? It makes quite a difference :)

Singapore has A340-500 struggling on SIN-LAX (14100 km) and SIN-EWR (15 400 km) Why do you say that its struggling?

Mutt

[chornedsnorkack]

You are quoting a lot of distances, would you kindly expand on if you mean great circle distances, Still Air Distances of ESAD? It makes quite a difference

Yes, it does mean great circle distances. Which is why I felt the need to remind that LAX-MEL westbound and SFO-HKG westbound were considered problematic - likely headwinds.

Singapore has A340-500 struggling on SIN-LAX (14100 km) and SIN-EWR (15 400 km) Why do you say that its struggling?

They wanted to have full three class service on the route - over 200 seats total, real economy, business and first class - and were disappointed to find that they could not, and had to make do with just 181 seats, Executive Economy and no First. Eventually, even this was too much, which is why they are dumping the Executive Economy altogether, and going to mere 100 seats (but still no first class).

[brownstar]

someone told me that the a380 is due into heathrow on it's first commercial flight to london, Is this true and if so does anyone know when it is?

[rjkrjk]

I believe it is March 18, but not sure if that date is leaving Singapore or arriving London

[VSB via OL]

I believe that SIA's website shall reveal all

[airsound]

They announced this at the end of January

Singapore Airlines A380 Flies To London From 18 March 2008
30 January 2008

Singapore Airlines will fly the world’s largest passenger aircraft - the Airbus A380 - on the Singapore-London route, from 18 March 2008, after the Airline takes delivery of the third A380 into its fleet by mid-March. The inaugural flight is also the first-ever A380 commercial service to Europe.

The first A380 flight to London, SQ 308, will leave Singapore’s Changi Airport on Tuesday, 18 March 2008, at 0900 hrs and arrive at London’s Heathrow Airport at 1505hrs (all times local).

On the same day, the aircraft will return to Singapore, operating as SQ 319, departing Heathrow at 1855hrs, arriving back into Singapore at 1535hrs on Wednesday,
19 March 2008.

Thereafter, the Singapore Airlines A380 will commence regular scheduled services, operating SQ322 daily on the Singapore-London sector from the evening of Tuesday 18 March, and on SQ 317 for the return leg from 19 March. A schedule of the flight times can be found in Annex 1.

Singapore Airlines is the first airline to fly the A380. The British capital is the Airline’s second A380 destination after the launch to Sydney in October 2007.

airsound

[deltadog]

Anyone know why 2 x A380 are sitting near the Tiger terminal at Changi and appear to be out of service?:confused: Cant imagine they should be sitting down there.

[VICKERS VC10]

Definitely 18 March.

I'm booked on it LHR-SIN :ok:

[darrylj]

lucky!..my friends nephew will be on that too!

hey when is the 747 8 arriving?.

thanks.

[Charley B]

just a question regarding the A380 and LHR--say there was a problem at LHR and it has to divert-where else in the UK have handling facilities/pier/steps etc for it?

[Been Accounting]

just a question regarding the A380 and LHR--say there was a problem at LHR and it has to divert-where else in the UK have handling facilities/pier/steps etc for it?

Somewhere that takes 747-400s or 777-300ERs - take your pick

[WincoDinco]

just a question regarding the A380 and LHR--say there was a problem at LHR and it has to divert-where else in the UK have handling facilities/pier/steps etc for it?

Manchester is the designated diversion airport for the A380.

[Gonzo]

Manchester is the designated diversion airport for the A380.

AFAIK Gatwick is further down the road to being an approved alternate airfield.

Until that time, I believe SIA will use EDDF or EHAM.

[point5]

Yeah EDDF if the favoured diversion airport at the moment.

9V-SKB is due to leave WSSS at 01:14 GMT.
ETA EGLL 14:45 on 18th.
At the moment looks like 09L, but your guess is as good as mine.

Cheers!

[ChristiaanJ]

I thought the Northern runway still had ongoing work, so the Hippo would land 09R/27L regardless.
But my info may well be out of date.

[point5]

Nop! All runways available to A380, and now that Link 25 is back, a route to the dedicated A380 gates from all 4 runways. The A380 will operate in accordance with the daily runway alternation.

[JetMech]

Some tarmac photos from the inaugural flight a few months ago :).

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3670595/

[allthatglitters]

Anyone know why 2 x A380 are sitting near the Tiger terminal at Changi and appear to be out of service? Cant imagine they should be sitting down there.
If you had looked closely you may have seen them being swopped around, various training flights were initiated from these bays. Also it is not the tiger terminal, it was named the Budget Terminal as Cebu Pacific also use the facilitys.

[Xeque]

London Telegraph (online) is reporting the first flight into Heathrow by a Singapore Airlines A380 today.
Should be quite a sight for the spotters and anyone in T3 with a view of the docking area. :cool:

[Ctail]

Confirmed, SIA308 expected to land at 1440z at EGLL.

[25thID]

I hope someone gets some good video and posts in on line. If anyone sees anything on some of the video sites please post the URL here if you would.

Thanks, 25th

[airsound]

I understand Beeb News 24 plans to be there. Probably Sky News as well, although they were not evincing much interest yesterday.

airsound

[Supermattt]

Any suggestion as to the best spot to watch A380 coming in? I guess it would be nice to se itland and taxi, what about on the top of that car park, not sure which terminal? Any ideas? Or there is a spot by a roundabout where I watched the last Concordes come in...where is that again?

Thanks

[Charley B]

Thanks for all the replies--do hope that it gets LGW as an alternate--is it still going to operate now on the first one into LHR in the morning at 04.55 and return at 12.00 to the far east?

[munkypuzel]

Sky news reporting that Boeing is the manufacturer of this beast....:rolleyes:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30400-1309658,00.html

"Singapore Airlines and manufacturer Boeing claim the aircraft is the quietest and greenest big plane"



sky have since ammendes ;0

[JMH]

they're landing on 09L this morning so it'll be coming into 27R which is a pain in the neck for us sat in offices on the bath road with an endless stream of dull, anonymous stuff streaming past all day, ho hum...

[parabellum]

Been Accounting

Instead of being 'just another number' I could order a Personal Title (http://www.pprune.org/ptorder/ptorder.htm) and be a bit different

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: LFBO
Posts: 29


Quote:
just a question regarding the A380 and LHR--say there was a problem at LHR and it has to divert-where else in the UK have handling facilities/pier/steps etc for it?

"Somewhere that takes 747-400s or 777-300ERs - take your pick"


Have you been reading that Airbus propaganda drivel again Been Accounting?

[trident3A]

Hi,
So landing 9L you reckon?

[JMH]

"So landing 9L you reckon?"

they actually switched operations about half an hour ago so i dont know now, it normally changes at 3pm, i'll keep an eye on things and post with any changes - though i'm sure someone with a better understanding than me might actually know for sure!

At the mo they're going up on 27L, down on 27R.

[trident3A]

Thanks JMH, someone suggested on here a while ago that the A380 was obliged to use the Southern runway regardless due to some kind of required modification to the runway/taxiways - anyone confirm this??

[MichaelJP59]

A tricky one, wind is 360 - 010 light northerlies, so they could use either direction?

[Xeque]

:sad::sad::sad:
I just simmed an A380 into 27R EGLL. Ah me!!

[PThomas]

14:15 - still seem to be landing East to West . I'm currently 7 floors up in South London and can see just where they're making the last turn before finals... really hope they don't start landings on 9L/R in the next 50 minutes!

[point5]

Thanks JMH, someone suggested on here a while ago that the A380 was obliged to use the Southern runway regardless due to some kind of required modification to the runway/taxiways - anyone confirm this??

The A380 will operate in accordance with the daily runway alternation and can operate from all 4 runways.

[adam.sh]

Am 7 floors up just east of the city - can still see aircraft approaching from the north and making their turn into finals westbound...

BAA estimating 1447z arrival...

[point5]

Presently in the hold, 210kts, 119.725.

[adam.sh]

Traffic seems to have dried up here - have they switched operations? :mad:

[point5]

Landing 27L.

[Law Flying]

Just gone over the City, a Virgin A340 and then she's next. Dropping Westwards as I type.

[nebpor]

BLoody hell, just ran out of the office in Aldgate and saw it turning - looked amazing, it's massive!!

[PThomas]

just watched it vector south over London and then turn west over onto final ... that thing looked huge over london..

Well done SIA / Airbus. :D

[JMH]

pah, they've been landing on the north runway (right outside my window) all day and they switched it to the south - lots of disappointed stepladders in visitor centre/hotel car park!

[PThomas]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7301455.stm

[adam.sh]

Office in Aldgate nebpor? Looking at your home location, that wouldn't happen to be at '10 Whitechapel High Street' would it?

[206Fan]

Watched it live on BBC there, beautiful landing by the crew!:D

[3rd_ear]

I was just sitting in my office at 2:45 thinking "must nip out for a smoke and look for the A380" when it caught me unawares - only had a 3-second peek out of the window as it went over. The reason it caught me out is that it's quiet! Possibly the quietest aircraft that's passed over here yet. Very impressive.

[mbwlewis]

How annoying of ATC to move it onto 27L - I came out onto Chiswick high street to watch it, and could everything coming in, including the Virgin A340.... then the most important flight of the day goes onto the left!

I'll head to LHR for departure I think!

[Will Hung]

There must be a reason for it landing on the southerly when everything else was landing on 27R or was it just spite ? Seem to remeber one of Concordes' last flights departing from 09L which is hardly ever used for take-offs. P***d off a lot of people that day too. ATC clearly do not like spotters !!!!

[nebpor]

Adam, no - I'm on Aldgate High Street, not RBS :E

Amazing how us smokers always get the best views!

[st7860]

here's a light moment. simulated A380 touch and go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwuTvAos9RI

[Charley B]

anyone know which way it will depart--is it a Clacton dep or does it go on a Dover dep??
Hopefully the 2nd one as I can see those from here out of LHR!!:)

[Doors to Automatic]

Likely to be Clacton