European Airline's view on ex Africa pilots?

[Jump Complete]

A month ago I posted asking about going flying in Africa Showing Face (going in cold) way to get job in Africa?
It illicted some interesting and usedfull responces and I've been in further discusion with a couple of you. I've now decided to go ahead and go to SA, convert my licence and start banging on doors.
However, one thing I have been wondering is, if I do decide to come back to the European airline scene in a few years time, what is the reaction likely to be?
I'm planning to go for the C208 or B200/B1900 type jobs (I have over 2000 hours total time and I've been advised thats where I should be aiming.)
Anyone had any experience of this? I wondering if the average airline recruitment department is going to think, 'OK, he's got 1000 hours (or whatever) on twin turboprops but whats he been up to out there? Is he a risk taking nutter?'
I'm not suggesting I think this sums up all African aviation, but I'm thinking some people might and that it might put some potential employers off.

[poorwanderingwun]

Personlly I believe you credit airline HR depts with too much 'thinking'.... just get some relevant experience... Turbo-prop's are a good start... watch the ads for the ever changing parameters of what's considered sufficient experience and when you fit the profile, go for it... In the last 40 odd years it's been proven countless times that airline hiring is re-active rather than pro-active..

A reasonable equation for the accountants at airlines is: When money lost by having insufficient crew is greater than money lost on salarys and training of new crew = Hire a pilot. You'll be one of them one day and your experience in Africa won't do you...or the chap in the left seat...any harm at all.. good luck.

[Jelly Doughnut]

It will give you some good stories to tell during the interviews! I've done 2 UK airline interviews (got both jobs) and the interviewers were always interested and, most of the time, amused by what I told them.

BA in particular ask you questions about your exerience, along the lines of: Give us an example of when you...

had to work outside of SOP's
flew with a difficult captain
had to use initiative
had to overrule captain's decision
had to put safety before customer service
experienced cultural differences (!)
felt in danger
etc

4 years flying in the bush gave me more than plenty to talk about!:O

Good luck..

[cpt hamna sheeda]

First of all everybody will tell you that you are a cowboy pilot who will have problems with following the SOP's and books, but in the end of the day all of them want to hear your stories. And as above mentioned, it is my experience as well that you will have something to talk about during your interviews.

Cheers

[Challenger-Deep]

JC,

I know of dozens of guys that have taken the African flying route and are now at Ryan Air , Emirates , Cathay etc... As far as i'm concerned its pretty much the only route to an airline if you're starting out in South Africa.
Besides its great fun and you will learn alot!

Goodluck and enjoy...;)

[south coast]

i am afraid in my opinion they are all useless...and dont get jobs


contract flying....!

[wheels up]

i am afraid in my opinion they are all useless...and dont get jobs
contract flying....!

South Coast: You're in denial, mate. Deep down inside you know you're a contract pilot and always will be - don't fight it.

Hope Njets don't find out about your secret past as a contract slut!

(audience gasps)

[Frogman1484]

have you applied at cathay pacific...I think you , might have enough hours for a SO position.

[I.R.PIRATE]

They just dont like the idea of you starring at the little grass runway alongside the large tar one, knowing that if you got her nicely settled toward the bottom of the drag curve, kept some power on, and put that first bogey down 5m after the fence....should be no problem eh?

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Don't think they like the idea of the captain loading the luggage and doing a surreptitious check for DG at the same time either...:ouch:

[Shrike200]

...or walking back into the cabin and trying to brief the pax in a loud voice (at a suitable volume to allow non-english speakers to be able to understand).

Or running off to the side of the apron/runway to take a leak between sectors.

Or taking all the left-over food/drink to take back to the crew house.

Or just plain leaving all the nav radios off because 'there just aren't any beacons here!'

Etc, etc...

:)

[I.R.PIRATE]

They are just jealous:}

[JG1]

South African contract pilots are well-known for their skill, daring and courage! They are resistant to hardship, disease and war; hardened to poor living conditions, facilities and pay. No AK47, SAM7 or Su-27 will frighten them away for long. Through wars, insurrections, droughts, storms, coup de etats, and the darkest of nights you will find them slicing through the hostile skies; where no others dare :D


Who would you rather interview from these two CV's?

1) Frozen ATPL, 1400 hrs. After Oxford course, initially flew B747 as P3, was upgraded to P2 after 2 years. Good knowledge of Captain's meal requirements.

2) CPL/IR, 1400hrs. Initially flew solo IFR on a C414 doing night freight in the Congo. Upgraded to C208, flew disaster relief in the Sudan, Somalia and DRC. B200 rating followed, flying for UN in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Flew a B1900 in West Africa, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Malabo etc. Later contracts in Algeria and Libya. Now flying F28's in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon. Expert on short runways and long days.

VIVA SA CONTRACT DOGS:E

[I.R.PIRATE]

...and brigning democracy to a world that doesnt care....:ugh: Would be awesome if we were able to plow the same amount of blood sweat and tears into getting our own country fixed up...:ugh:

[wheels up]

.. or acknowledging your clearance from Heathrow Approach with 'rog'

[Jelly Doughnut]

I would love to do a spiral descent from 20,000' overhead onto the gatwick ILS, shouting charlie charlie, rog, and break break... just need to convince my employer now that's its a good idea... although you never know, with the security situation in the UK it might become necessary :E :E

[wheels up]

JD - ha,ha. Let us know what happens! I guess we could always find you a job out here again!

South African contract pilots are well-known for their skill, daring and courage! They are resistant to hardship, disease and war; hardened to poor living conditions, facilities and pay. No AK47, SAM7 or Su-27 will frighten them away for long. Through wars, insurrections, droughts, storms, coup de etats, and the darkest of nights you will find them slicing through the hostile skies; where no others dare VIVA SA CONTRACT DOGS:E

JG1: Churchill would have been proud.

[south coast]

jg1...you are a sad individual posting your own cv on here!

[KESHO]

JG 1 - Maybe just a bit bias!!...Your comment on the abilities of South African contract pilots to endure the normal day to day conditions of Africa. Get a life mate! Out of all the whites that are on this continent, the South African whites are the least capable of dealing with true Africans. I have flown in the SA contract scene for some time and have not encountered many individuals that are really in touch with the reality of them operating in a foreign country and not speaking a word of the local lingo and just counting days until they get back to the comfort of Sandton. Majority of the contract operators are there only to build some hours so they can get back to the comfort of home. And then back home at the pub the good contract War stories with slight exaggeration always seems to get good attention.

What makes you think they are so capable of getting on with the job???

This macho rubbish again about the contract pilot being a notch above the rest in flying ability is ridiculous! Short strips are only relative comparisons 370 meters in a Caravan is more comfortable than 2100 in A heavy jet. Flying with AK47s and SAM7 around...please! The threat is so small in comparison to the normal drive to the airport in the morning in any large African city, or drinking out the local tap, or contracting some unheard of disease or or or or....

It doesnt matter where you are operating my friend. You cannot compare pears with apples. U might be a capable pilot in your environment, but trust me you might not be so capable in someone elses backyard.

Back to the topic:
Flying experience = experience of flying. Doenst matter where its obtained. Its what you make of it and you must use it to your benefit at the interview.

[I.R.PIRATE]

Aw Kesho dont spoil the party now, its not up to you to decide who is what, and what who can do. Relax and smell the roses dude. I dont moan when other people are having fun. Or are you just jealous?:ouch:

[south coast]

i second that kesho...

i did contract flying for 5 years and have since come to europe to fly...wow, what a difference, the level of procedural instrument flying, and the way things are down, sids, rnav stars, transitions, taxi-ing around the major airports....

all i can say is, contract flying didnt prepare me for any of that, infact the amount of vfr flying is actually a hinderance.

contract flying increases your hands on flying skills, but when do we ever do that, sometimes a little before RVSM airspace, the odd visual we get and when we get to go back to africa...

think whatever you like, but dont over-rate youself because you have been to algeria, afghanistan, middle east etc....so have many others too!

[Solid Rust Twotter]

What I've been saying all along. Contract flying is regarded as a training ground for cowboys and the longer you spend doing it the worse it looks on your CV. Some of us don't have a lot of choice as that elusive airline job is difficult to pin down when you spend so little time at home.

Your procedural IF while doing charters counts for more than any amount of time spent doing day VFR approaches into short bush strips with a firefight going on in the vicinity.

[south coast]

charlie-charlie!

[Ingwe]

I agree. Whislt contract flying is all good fun and it builds your total time it does very little for your procedural skills. Went from instructing and charter in pistons to contract either way did little I.F flying, came as a shock how rusty i was after just over 2 years contract and only the odd approach.

I don't think any company per say looks down on contract flying more the attitude you portray at your interview towards that flying. If you come across as cocky and cowboy, guess what guys you're not going to get the job.

[I.R.PIRATE]

aha, but there are people out there who do contract flying, as well as procedural charter/corporate/schedule stuff. You cannot compare the two, but I stand firm that bush flying does wonders for your "hands" - not for your procedural skills.

[Jelly Doughnut]

SC
i did contract flying for 5 years and have since come to europe to fly...wow, what a difference, the level of procedural instrument flying, and the way things are down, sids, rnav stars, transitions, taxi-ing around the major airports....

Agree 100%...

Getting the job in the first place was tough, and the type-rating was hard work, but nothing could have prepared me for line training. Flying around Europe is all about procedures and professional R/T...

[KESHO]

I.R PIRATE - If you compare two chaps that have gone different routes in their flying careers, I agree that the guy who went the contract route will be a better pilot in handling the aircraft up a certain point only. He is thrown into a deeper end and discretion and decision making will force the contract pilot to mature faster. In my view a F/O with 500 hrs in the bush might be able to control an aircraft slightly better than an F/O with 500 hrs in the charter market on the equivalent a/c. But now I do not think the same would apply if they both had 3000hrs on type. They will be both professional pilots and just as capable on that aircraft type.

The contract market is only good for some hour building and then one must seek employment elsewhere. I understand it is very hard to move onto more fancy aircraft, but one has to try as there is only so much one can learn on contract and it is not the best set up to have a personal life. If you spent a couple of years on contract most of the spots will have been covered and hence the flying is quite straight forward really. It gets more tricky when planes get bigger and systems more complex and fuel becomes more critical...but majority of the contract flying is done in King Airs, 1900s, Vans, Twotters, Lets....and all those aircraft really fly themselves.

If a contract pilot really thinks that they are better than the other types of pilots out there, he or she has clearly spent too much time in the bush!

[Airforce1]

Quote from Kesho It gets more tricky when planes get bigger and systems more complex and fuel becomes more critical...but majority of the contract flying is done in King Airs, 1900s, Vans, Twotters, Lets....and all those aircraft really fly themselves.

You are right Kesho!,just wish my Airbus had a autopilot like those turboprops!;)
I did my many years on contract, and the guys I met there all over are of a special breed. Its not about hands on-procedures etc, Its about going to some god foresaken place and earning your experience by operators. Contract dogs operate, come rain or shine, broken planes or overloaded, they learn to make a plan (am not saying break the law). Realising that the impossible is viable-and at the end of the day (or night) going back to your shelter (not the Sheraton Kesho) and having a cold one with one your fellow pilot mates who has had a similar day. Its not always glamerous-not always dull. But I do have a soft spot for fellow contract dogs who sold their soul :ok:
Its the african pilots who have not seen the dark side who hear all the stories and wish they had seen contract that frown the most. Its alot like doin service in the army-you never regret it but would not go do it again.
And by the way, the cabin crew here in Europe love the contract stories! haha:E

[Bealzebub]

Speaking as somebody who has flown as a "bush" pilot in Africa and as a long serving airline Captain for a European airline, and been involved in airline recruitment, I can tell you that it matters not one jot where you have collected your past experience. Certainly how it helps compose your CV or it how it helps your conversational deportment may play a factor, but that is about it.

Airline recruiters are usually looking to select for interview and subsequently for employment individuals who the recruiters feel will best fit into their own perception of that airlines culture. As with any interview it is largely a case of making an impression on the interviewer that you are a personable individual who will fit in and settle quickly into the company concerned. The fact you have been selected for interview at all means you are in the running to sell yourself on your own personality. The truth of it is that nobody could care less or in any way concern themselves that your previous bush flying, contract flying, or anything else, would affect your ability to fly in RVSM airspace or structured airline flying. It is about you as a person. It is not about you thinking you are a better pilot than than someone else (that is for the private world of your own ego). It is about the interviewer ( as a pilot ) wondering if you are likely to be the sort of person they would be happy to work with all day or all week. It is about you being the sort of person the interviewer thinks will stay and advance with the company, and be an asset to that company. It is about personality, smartness, impression, communication, and at the end of the day some degree of luck that the combination of these things strikes the right ressonance with the interviewer.

You can portray yourself as Gods gift to aviation on forums such as this with impunity, but at an interview you will be met with a courteous smile and a subsequent thin envelope in the post. Succesful pilots come from a wide variety of backgrounds.

[cpt hamna sheeda]

Out of my own experience i do not totally agree with Kesho. I admitt i had difficulties after coming from Africa to get into the tight procedural flying of Europe and my IFR skills were very rusty indeed. But this was sorted out very quickly.

But as i am flying across Europe in my CRJ with cpt's off all sorts of backgrounds (military, charter, direct from the LH flightschool and the odd old bush pilot) i must say that i prefer to fly with the former charter and bush pilots than the direct from the flightschool guys. The latter think they now everything (because they are from the best flyingschool world wide:yuk: ). The problem with them is they have seen nothing in aviation at all. The books are holier than the bible, and they prefer to fly into a mountain according SOP´s in stead of thinking for a moment and fly around it.

It doesn't matter how many SOP's and books are written, a pilot need some understanding of the environment he is flying in. He must be able to think judge the situation, and make a decision combining his knowledge, the SOP's books etc. and not start to think; at what page is this problem written down...

If you have flown alone across a demanding place you have better airmanship (or whatever you want to call it). And this will help you in your carreer no matter what kind of flying you do.

Cheers

[Solid Rust Twotter]

The only thing that frightens me is kryptonite...:E :}

[south coast]

and brussel sprouts!

[Agaricus bisporus]

I got my first UK airline job because of bush flying. The boss thought that I must be a decent chap as I'd been flying for an NGO in Africa; what a bizarre way to recruit! Unfortunately his maintenance was considerably more African than the African's, and after one maintenance-related accident I quickly left to save my skin and licence.

Having flown since with Capts and FOs of all backgrounds I'd hazard a guess that those who have done something different, and particularly had some variety in their flying careers have a better basis for decision making than the one-type-for-life fella who came to it straight out of flight school. I now regularly fly with these, who are all excellent pilots, but sometimes lack the judgement that comes from broader experience, particularly so as my company seems to actively discourage initiative and thinking (aka airmanship) by stifling them under oppressively detailed SOPs.

If you go straight to jets you've missed out entirely on life between 3000' and FL330, and that's a big hole in your repertoire. As a line Capt my choice of FO is ex turboprop, skipper or FO matters not, and if they've done some bush or utility too then so much the better, they've got the scars and medals to prove it. I'm just not convinced about the "monoculture" career path.

[buttline]

Sounds like the equivalent of the bush pilots here in Europe. Plenty of visual approaches and circling to land in 737-800s.

Crappy airfields where ATC tell you radar service terminated at FL100 and find your own way to the runway - dodging the gliders on the way. Good fun apart from 4 sectors and 12 hours a day gets a bit knackering. I whimped out and went long-haul - too much like hard work but good experience.

My first job was on a 737-300 and I regularly had to contend with 30 knot crosswinds gusting to 45 and pissing down with rain onto a 2000m runway - plenty of hands-on work involved in short haul IFR European jet flying I can assure you. Get a job with a LoCo somewhere like Prestwick or Leeds in the UK and you'll see weather the autopilot / autothrust can't handle on a regular basis.

Didn't get any lions on the runwary though - just French students on strike.

There's no snobbery here in Europe about prop flying. It's just that there are hardly any prop operations left here. It's easier to get a jet job due to massive expansion of Easyjet and Ryanair than it is to get a turbo prop job. Also, under JAA rules you have to have 700 hours to be able to fly single pilot IFR. It would be pretty difficult to operate commerically here VFR only due to the density of the airspace and crappy weather.

At the end of the day, you get good pilots from all kinds of backgrounds - ab-initio, bush, military, instructing etc - it's down to the calibre, attitude and personality of the indiviudal more than anything.

Cheers.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Well said....:D

[MercenaryAli]

Who would you rather interview from these two CV's?

1) Frozen ATPL, 1400 hrs. After Oxford course, initially flew B747 as P3, was upgraded to P2 after 2 years. Good knowledge of Captain's meal requirements.

2) CPL/IR, 1400hrs. Initially flew solo IFR on a C414 doing night freight in the Congo. Upgraded to C208, flew disaster relief in the Sudan, Somalia and DRC. B200 rating followed, flying for UN in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Flew a B1900 in West Africa, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Malabo etc. Later contracts in Algeria and Libya. Now flying F28's in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon. Expert on short runways and long days.


Kesho you have shown your hand! As an experienced pilot, having flown in Africa (bush pilot) and the civilised world (airline pilot) I know who of the above I would choose as my F/O and it would not be you!

The US systems works - you would need at least 1500 hours of which at least 500 turbine to land a F/O position with a Part 121 carrier. Stripes are earned not a right!

Contract Bush Pilots Rule! :p

[JG1]

south coast sorry mate...that might have been my cv a few years back;)

Kesho says "Out of all the whites that are on this continent, the South African whites are the least capable of dealing with true Africans."
..erm, I dunno Kesho, we dealt with you fine in the past... Chimoio, Cassinga spring directly to mind:E

I can't believe, think it was south coast, posted it was tough taxiing around some european airports:rolleyes: Mate, it might be confusing but it will hardly wear you out!!!

Sure if you are flying bush bush bush your IFR skills will atrophy but note that there are quite a few SA jet operators who fly contracts in all sorts of hell-holes. And not just VFR.

I don't have to explain why contract flying is more fun and a far superior pilot education than simple line-flying from A to B and back, day in day out. Those who do contract flying know this and those who have only done routine line flying are unaware and will remain so. Same as a military background provides a pilot with better hands-on skills and discipline, contract flying teaches you the real world, not JAR-OPS out of the book. Fact is, a pilot starting on contracts will learn all the little things far more quickly than a line pilot who is basically flying in a protected environment - you could say spoon-fed.

That being said, I agree (well said Bealzebub) that when it comes to airline recruitment it doesn't matter because the airlines are flying airline ops.

But its a simple matter to be bussed from your five-star hotel to the first-world airport you operate from to program your flying cinema to go to London/LAX/etc. Try surviving the night listening to the katyushas/mosquitoes, washing from a tap, getting to the dirt airstrip early to oversee your own fuelling/arming, you have to run the whole show down to the last sheet of bogroll. SRT you will know what I am on about - sure it might not help you get into the airlines but, hell, what a sense of perseverence through adversity!!

Anyway as I said, for those of you who haven't done it, you will never know!
You can just buy us beers in the pub and we will tell the stories:}

VIVA SACP!!:D

[KESHO]

JG 1 - Had you dealt with them so well in the past, I do not think we would be in the situation we are in now.
Chimoio and Cassinga congratulations on a job well done!....hardly! I would only hope you had come out of those on top. To go out and say well done for a fantastic job is a bit ridiculous! Muzungu fighting in Africa can be compared to stealing candy from kids. But some enjoy thinking that they did a hell of a good job out there....each to their own opinion.
The thread was about bush flying experience how good or bad it might be in an interview so I think we have veered off the topic here. It sounds more like a war story competition of who has had it harder...who cares mate. I have been there done it and got the shirts too and am only ever so happy to have closed that chapter in my career. Just over 10 years of having fun is enough...The modern contracting scene has changed so much that I would hardly say it holds too much hardship anymore. Long gone are the days of doing six months to a year out in the field at a time, living in tents and buying your nyama from the local market down the path. These days you actually get paid in time to live in airconditioned rooms with DSTV and cooked meals with a fixed roster flying serviceable planes...

Back to the thread...
I have done my bit of flying in the bush with a couple diffrent aircraft and I do agree it is a fantastic learning ground...but only up to a point. And that point is reached very soon in ones flying career. In an interiew it is what you make of it, to use it to your advantage. The Airline will want a certain level of experience from the candidates and that experience should be commensurate with age. So it is pretty useless to have 5000hrs of bush flying if you do not even know how to use proper RT and procedural flying.

[JG1]

Kesho - previous tongue in cheek posts aside - I fully agree with you:ok:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Long gone are the days of doing six months to a year out in the field at a time, living in tents and buying your nyama from the local market down the path. These days you actually get paid in time to live in airconditioned rooms with DSTV and cooked meals with a fixed roster flying serviceable planes...

You do?:confused:

Where do I sign up?:}

[I.R.PIRATE]

For any flight OTHER than an autocommanded tar to tar (miles of it) journey at FL330, I would pick a pilot with bush flying experience above one without. 10000 hours in the right hand seat of airliner means didley squat in my books. Yes, for airline ops, and type of flying you might be considered experienced, but for any other type of flying, your pants and your seat dont meet.

?different skills are required for different work, so it is really stupid to compare contract experience to airline hours, that said...you know who I think is more skilled....:zzz: :mad:

[Jump Complete]

Well more fantastic posts to give me something to think on. Not sure whether to be pleased or frightened by some of the posts!
The general verdict by those that know seems to be that it is a positive thing. Regarding the limits in career terms, I have reached that with the flying I'm doing now and have been unable to break away from that here, hence the decision to expand my repotioire elsewhere.
I guess at the end of the day when it comes to getting jobs, the difficult bit is getting to the interview to be able to show you are the right person for the job and a couple of thousand hours on twin turbos and a precis of flying in some interesting places on the CV can only help you get noticed!
Thanks for the info; is there a secret pprune handshake for when I bump into any of you out there?

[JG1]

Contract Pilots even learn the handshakes.

African Handshake : Fold the $50 bill lengthways until it is only about 1cm wide and hold it between the index and the middle finger. As you shake hands with the official push in slightly with your middle finger whilst smiling. Avoid direct eye contact. :bored:

On-Contract Handshake : Best avoided altogether, but if this is not possible, best with rubber gloves. If these are not available, cup the hand as you shake so as to provide as little skin-to-skin contact. Unclasp handshake as quickly as possible. Do not use right hand for anything else until you have washed hands asap with antibacterial handwash gel. :suspect:

[I.R.PIRATE]

I'm sure kesho is not THAT filthy...no need to get mean now JG1:=

[Baas]

The absolute worst thread in decades.....se-africans trying to proof a point!

:E

[AfricanSkies]

From the Time magazine cover story, August 2006 - the Fokker F28-4000's are flown by South African contract pilots from AirQuarius Contracts. ;)

From the Magazine | Cover
Life in Hell: A Baghdad Diary
By APARISIM GHOSH

SUBSCRIBE TO TIME PRINT E-MAIL MORE BY AUTHOR
• First Person: Staying Sane in the Most Dangerous Place on Earth
• Photo Essay: Journey Into Baghdad
• Talk Back: Life in Baghdad
Posted Sunday, Aug. 6, 2006

A knot begins to form in my stomach exactly at 8 a.m., when I step into the small Fokker F-28 jet that will take me and 50 other passengers from Amman, Jordan, to Baghdad. I know what lies ahead: an hour's uneventful flying over unchanging desert, followed by the world's scariest landing--a steep, corkscrewing plunge into what used to be Saddam Hussein International Airport. Then an eight-mile drive into the city along what's known as the Highway of Death. I've made this trip more than 20 times since Royal Jordanian's civilian flights started three years ago, and you'd expect it would get easier. But the knot takes hold in my stomach every time.
I scan the cabin for familiar faces. The 50-odd passengers include the usual suspects--Western "security consultants" in faux fatigues, Iraqi officials in dark suits. And some surprises, like the three women in white Indian saris with blue borders. The nuns from the Missionaries of Charity, Mother Teresa's order, are a comforting sight. One of them, Sister Benedetta, kindly gives me a laminated picture of the soon-to-be saint and a genuine relic--a microchip-size piece of Teresa's sari. A lapsed Hindu, I'm nonetheless grateful for any and all gifts that purport to holiness; somewhere in my bags are a tiny sandalwood Ganesha, pages of the New Testament and a string of Islamic prayer beads. In Iraq, you want to have God--anybody's God--within easy reach.
Sister Benedetta smiles politely when I joke that many of our fellow passengers will be calling to their maker when the plane begins its hellish descent. To avoid being shot down by Iraqi insurgents, the pilot must stay at 30,000 ft. until the plane is directly over Baghdad airport, then bank into a spiraling dive, straightening up just yards from the runway. If you're looking out the window, it can feel as if the plane is in a free fall from which it can't possibly pull out. I've learned from experience to ask for an aisle seat.
The only thing worse than the view from the window is being seated next to someone who hasn't taken the flight before. During one especially difficult landing in 2004, a retired American cop wouldn't stop screaming "Oh, God! Oh, God!" I finally had to slap him on the face--on instructions from the flight attendant. Another time the man in the window seat was a muscular, heavily tattooed Polynesian ex-commando who spent an hour telling me of his life as a mercenary in a succession of South Pacific island nations--stories that often ended with his punching, stabbing or shooting somebody. When the Fokker began its steep descent, he began whimpering to Jesus and grabbing my forearm so tight, I felt my palm go cold from lack of circulation
On this occasion, to my relief, the guy next to me is a fellow journalist and veteran of the nightmare landings. Even so, as we begin the descent, I move my hand away from the armrest. Looking over my shoulder, I see a familiar expression on the faces of my co-passengers: a mixture of fear and resignation. Sister Benedetta is staring up at the ceiling, her lips moving in prayer. I reach into my shirt pocket and surreptitiously rub my fingers over that laminated picture. When the Fokker's wheels hit the tarmac, 50 people sigh in unison, 50 stomachs unclench. But the relief is temporary; most of us still have to negotiate the Highway of Death.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1223363,00.html

[KESHO]

Ignorance is bliss... Time needs to sell magazines so they make it sound like a suicide run!

AfricanSkies,

In your honest opinion, what sort of threat do you feel there is in operating in and out of SDA?

KESHO

[AfricanSkies]

Kesho I would say the main threat is from possible collision with other aircraft, both civil and military, both manned and unmanned.

Then there is the threat of insurgent action which may be less than alluded to by Time Magazine but nevertheless cannot be ignored. Aircraft have been fired upon (and, indeed, several brought down) on numerous occasions in/out of Baghdad, by both SAM and ground fire over the last 3 years. Aircraft on the apron and taxiing aircraft have been mortared on numerous occasions.

Weather is no doubt a factor as the airport does not have any civilian IFR approach aids. Temperatures in the high 40's and regular dust storms do not help matters. Finally, Baghdad is fairly isolated as far as viable alternates go for short range aircraft. It also does not have repair facilities, so theres always the chance of a fault stranding the aircraft there.

How do you feel about threats operating in/out of Baghdad, Kesho? It sounds as if you think the threats are highly exaggerated? One thing is for sure - it's a far cry from Dubai or Joburg.

[KESHO]

AfricanSkies, I fully agree with your post. Traffic is the number one threat! TCAS Screens could not be big enough...



K