PIA pilot tested positive for alcohol in Oslo

[viking737]

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article1427324.ece
What it says... PIA pilot tests positive for alcohol before 1300 departure
out of Oslo.

[6-String]

Shoot! Took a lot of words just to say that...? :)

[The Bartender]

Yeah!! what he said!! What about ENGLISH or a link?
Here you go....

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pilot made a positive breathalizer-test

One of the pilots from PIA, who was supposed to fly passengers to Islamabad, was given a breathalizer-test on saturday morning, and tested positive. The police did the test based on a tip.

Around 40 passengers are now waiting at Gardermoen (ENGM/OSL). Most likely, they will not be going anywhere until a new pilot can be located.
These are not the only passengers affected. In Copenhagen, there is a large group of passengers, that was supposed to be on the same flight, still waiting for information.

Jo Kobro, OSL's Information Consultant, confirms that he knows about the incident, and says that the flight may be delayed until after 01:30.

A positive test.
- We did give the pilot a breathalizer-test, and he tested positive. We have also taken a bloodsample for further analysis, and the pilot will be taken in for questioning, says Pia Grude with Romerike Police District.

Was sick?
Even though the pilot tested positive, PIA management claims that the pilot was not intoxicated, only sick.
If the analysed bloodsample give the same results as the breathalizer, the airline will most likely change their statement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

:ugh:

[A330ismylittlebaby]

O.k translation

A geezer popped a few voddy shots before getting his mits on some iron but the bobbys got him and gave him what for. The peeps had to wait for time.

End of story:p

[NutLoose]

Here you go....

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was sick?
Even though the pilot tested positive, PIA management claims that the pilot was not intoxicated, only sick.
If the analysed bloodsample give the same results as the breathalizer, the airline will most likely change their statement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

:ugh:

Certain medicines can do that..

[The Bartender]

Certainly, but in this case, the tip made to the police was based on the fact that the pilot smelled of alcohol.

Acording to the previously quoted spokeswoman for the police that is:
http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=127113

- Det kan også ha vært oppførsel, men tipset gikk først og fremst ut på at mannen luktet alkohol, sier Grunde.


Translates into:
"It may also have been the behaviour, but the tip was primarily based on the pilot smelling of alcohol, Grunde says."


Furthermore, the article states that it was the screeners at a security-checkpoint that noted the smell and notified the police.

It appears that they did indeed find a pilot, as the flight, PK772, landed in Copenhagen at 03:24lt, 25 hours late.... :D

[The Bartender]

...and according to Norwegian newspapers today, the pilot has admitted to drinking whiskey, but claims he did not intend to fly...

Nutloose: Perhaps it was whiskey intended for medicinal purposes? :hmm:

[6-String]

Certain medicines can do that..

What? Get the airline to change their statement? :E

[MarcJF]

Out of interest, what is the legal limit for alcohol in breath for a pilot? E.g. it's 35 for driving, just wondering if flying is lower?

[Dan Winterland]

Out of interest, what is the legal limit for alcohol in breath for a pilot? E.g. it's 35 for driving, just wondering if flying is lower?

The EU has set a limit of 20mg/100ml as a limit. As a comparison, the UK driving limit is 80mg/100ml. I'm not sure how this is enforced as it is down to the individual Aviation Authorities to administer.

I don't think it's a carte blance to have a small drink before flying, most operators spitulate a time limit from drinking to flying. I think it's a limit to take into account there may be a small residual blood alcohol from drinking before the time limit and also natural alcohol from the fermentation of the stomach contents - if you've just eaten some fruit for example .

Ironicly for Muslims, the origin of the word alcohol is from arabic!

[M609]

How many pilots has the Adecco people spilled the beans on now? :\
Allmost worth their cost soon.... :p :p ;) ;) ;)

[Unwell_Raptor]

Dan W,

Just to make sure we are comparing apples with apples, the 35 quoted for a car driver is in breath. It's 80 in blood, so the limit for a pilot is one-quarter that for a driver.

[kumul1]

And furthur more, just because it was a PIA pilot does not mean he was a muslim, in fact it does not mean he was Pakistani either.

A lot of these misconceptions going around lately so keep an open mind.

[The Bartender]

An update from the Norwegian newspaper VG.no:
http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=127292

The 59 year old co-pilot that was arrested Saturday, in the cockpit of a Pakistan Airlines aircraft, suspected of beeing under the influence of alcohol, has been detained for four weeks by Nedre Romerike District Court.

This has been confirmed by the man's lawyer, Zulifqar Munir, to NTB (a Norwegian news agency).
The reason for the the decission to detain the man is that the police fear that he may try to avoid prosecution by fleeing.
The article goes on, stating some of the known things in the case..
- He was tested after a tip.
- He has admitted to drinking.
- He has admitted guilt.
- He claims he had no intention of flying.

[SeldomFixit]

So that's what PNF stands for :)

[Margarita]

And furthur more, just because it was a PIA pilot does not mean he was a muslim, in fact it does not mean he was Pakistani either.
A lot of these misconceptions going around lately so keep an open mind.

How many non muslim captain do you think PIA has?

[rodthesod]

How many non muslim captain do you think PIA has?
I shouldn't imagine they have too many non-muslim, 59 year old FOs either. When I worked in Saudi Arabia it was muted that muslim sobriety was inversely proportional to distance from Mecca. I now live in a muslim country and alcoholism is rife here.
I'm often amused by protestations about precise alcohol limits and times 'bottle to throttle' etc. The way I see it: if a pilot has to worry about his own precise limit and how close he is to 'a line' - he has an alcohol problem and should address it.
Oh and yes, I had and I did and then enjoyed 12 years of completely 'sober' flying prior to my retirement without having to worry about such trivia.

[inducedrag]

I hope if the pilots association or airline is helping to get the pilot out of Oslo back to Pakistan

[Miraculix]

According to this http://www.boarding.no/art.asp?id=22957 his alchohol percentage was 0,106%, wich is almost three times above the legal limit in Norway.

[geraintw]

The EU has set a limit of 20mg/100ml as a limit. As a comparison, the UK driving limit is 80mg/100ml. I'm not sure how this is enforced as it is down to the individual Aviation Authorities to administer.

Breath is 35mg/100ml breath, it's 80 for blood.

[Just_Testing]

For those interested in the actual wording of the Road Traffic Act, go to:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880052_en_2.htm#mdiv6
It goes on ad nauseam about the prescribed limit, until finally saying what the limit actually is in Section 11(2), reproduced here for those who don't want the fag of looking it up.
"the prescribed limit" means, as the case may require—
(a) 35 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of breath,
(b) 80 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood, or
(c) 107 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of urine,
or such other proportion as may be prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State.
Now although that 35 microgrammes is a tiny amount, remember it is only a "sample" of the alcohol in your breath, but it is directly proportional to the remainder of the alcohol from your three glasses of wine, which still remain inside you and haven't yet been metabolised.

[ChristiaanJ]

Just_Testing, and anybody else reading this:
I realise this is somewhat O/T and maybe should by now be moved to the Tech Log..... But I thought it would be interesting to let the subject run its course and get the questions answered...."the prescribed limit" means, as the case may require—
(a) 35 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of breath,
(b) 80 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood, or
(c) 107 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of urine...
Now although that 35 microgrammes is a tiny amount, remember it is only a "sample" of the alcohol in your breath, but it is directly proportional to the remainder of the alcohol from your three glasses of wine, which still remain inside you and haven't yet been metabolised.
Blood: 80mg/100ml = 0.8g/ltr = 4g/5 ltr (5ltr being the typical blood volume in the human body)
Urine: 107mg/100ml = 1.07g/ltr = 0.5g/0.5ltr (about the normal human limit, I would think).
That's 4.5 g accounted for.
Three glasses of wine contain in the order of 40 to 50g of alcohol..... where's the remainder? They won't yet have been metabolised, as you said... that takes several hours. I would expect most of them to have been absorbed in the bloodstream after an hour or so.... clearly not.... there's an order of magnitude difference.
Any clues?

Baffled Boffin.

Edit: the rest of the technical discussion has now been moved to a new thread in Tech Log called Calculating Alcohol Levels, where it really belonged anyway.
The final answer is simply that most of the alcohol diffuses in the body tissues, with only about 10% remaining in the bloodstream. See the thread in Tech Log for details.

[Phileas Fogg]

Oslo isn't in the EU

[ChristiaanJ]

Mr Phileas Fogg, sir....Oslo isn't in the EUWe knew that....
A man with yuor travel experience round the world should know that both in Sweden and in Norway the blood alcohol limit is 0.2g/ltr (or 20mg/100ml, or 0.02%, whichever you are more familiar with).
The EU doesn't have a uniform limit, either.

[teeepee]

Hmmm..... lets see...
Turns up at the airport,
In a pilots uniform
Reeks of grog
Gets tested, blows the limit
Admits to 'drinkin sum viskey'
..but had no intention of flying..
gets thrown in the clink,
And now someone suggests the union 'get him out of Oslo and back to Pakistan'? gee i'm glad I wasn't on the flight, or on any flight operated by members of a union who bust their buddies out of jail when they have OBVIOUSLY turned up tanked at the gate!:sad:///// WOW, i hope the pia pilots union do some drastic discipline to rectify this fellow, for the sake of safety and fairness to the rest of pilots in the company,a similar thing happened in pal years ago tolerating a member and ended up going strike for a useless member thus the whole union members being terminated for striking illegally....good luck guys.....

[Phileas Fogg]

Mr Phileas Fogg, sir....We knew that....
A man with yuor travel experience round the world should know that both in Sweden and in Norway the blood alcohol limit is 0.2g/ltr (or 20mg/100ml, or 0.02%, whichever you are more familiar with).
The EU doesn't have a uniform limit, either.

ChristianJ
There are previous post(s) in this thread quoting EU regulations that have diddly squat to do with countries outside of the EU, this thread relates to an incident that took place in Norway so any EU regulation has got diddly squat to do with it.

I recently had communications with a pilot who had been terminated from a Middle East airline, he claimed that they had been operating illegally and justified this by quoting EU & JAA legislation, since when has the Middle East be in the EU & JAA and likewise since when has Norway been in the EU?

And yes, I have travelled extensively but why on this earth should an extensive traveller, who is not a pilot, be aware of blood/alcohol limitations in Norway or Sweden or indeed anywhere else?

PF

[Cosmo]

It was mentioned awhile back on a thread concerning the crew of a Lufthansa flight (if memory serves me correctly) departing form Helsinki, that the legal limits may vary quite significantly form country to country. For those operating out of Finland, be advised that the Finnish Aviation Act stipulates a zero-limit. The wording of the paragraph in question states that a flight crewmember (amongst others) whose blood alcohol level is elevated due to the consumption of alcohol, is not allowed to operate a flight.

[ChristiaanJ]

PF,... why should an extensive traveller, who is not a pilot, be aware of blood/alcohol limitations ... anywhere?I'd have thought it was useful to know whether you could have a beer or a glass of wine with your lunch wthout going over the legal limit for driving your hire car afterwards....

Anyway, 2dmoon and I just were trying to work out why the figures didn't line up, not the legal limit in Norway.

Legal limits for cars seem to vary widely, from 0 to 0.1% and everything in between. For aircraft I would expect them to be a lot less than the 0.08% or 0.05% which still seem to be prevalent in most countries.

Cosmo,
Strictly speaking I would have thought a "zero" limit would be unenforceable, because the body itself (digestion, etc.) produces very small quantities of alcohol. Men, women and children all have a natural blood alcohol level in the order of 0.003%, not "zero-zero".

[inducedrag]

the pilot is still in jail might get up to 2 years of jail:ugh:

[rodthesod]

ChristiaanJ & M.Mouse

Looks as though posts have been removed to a new thread in Tech Log called Calculating Alcohol Levels, which IMHO is where they should have been in the first place. If one's livelihood depends upon staying 'sober' then, nomatter how that sobriety is 'tested', the only 100% safe route is abstinence. If this creates a problem for an individual, it is 'a drink problem' and, again IMHO, should be dealt with by seeking help, not by taking degree courses in chemistry and higher maths to 'beat the system'.

rts

[The Bartender]

In Norwegian:
http://www.nettavisen.no/ioslo/article741972.ece

[ChristiaanJ]

In Norwegian:
http://www.nettavisen.no/ioslo/article741972.eceI get the gist (I have some Swedish), but any chance of a machine translation? Babelfish doesn't seem to do Norwegian>English.

[LatviaCalling]

My Swedish is Ok, but there is some difference between Norwegian. I'll try my best.

The 48-year old first officer of a Pakistan International Airways was arrested by police after he measured 1.06 in promiles at Oslo airport on the 19th of August (2006).

In high court on Monday he received six months in prison.

The story goes on to say that Norwegian law allows 0.02 promiles on flight crew.

I hope the translation is correct.

[ChristiaanJ]

Thanks! Same as I read.
106 mg per 100 ml is way over the limit for drivers just about anywhere.... so he had it coming....
20 mg per 100 ml is the limit for drivers in Norway and Sweden.
Promillegrensen for piloter i sivil luftfart er bare 0,2.Limit in "per thousand" for civil aviation pilots is 0.2, i.e., the same as for drivers, interestingly.