CTC holdpool (ATPers)

[Go_Detent]

On a positive note, I was speaking to one of EZ's Line Training Captains last week and he was very positive that they would be dipping into the pool fairly soon. :ok:

Matt D2K, this sounds like good news mate, any info' on numbers or timing? It's all to do with the timing...

GD.

[DragStrut]

Hi All (Kerropi - Any news?? )

'pass me a towel im out and need to dry off'

Kerropi - an update for you mate myself and the remaining 5 guys from the june aqc have been called for airbus type rating at easy starting in march so there is definately movement in the pool hopefully it will be getting a little bit less crowded in there now (more room for diving practice) hopefully the movement has begun

Good luck guys ill try and keep updating as and when I hear any more news.

Dragstrut (ex olympic swimmer) :ok: :ok: :ok:

[mattd2k]

Go Detent,

No time scales mentioned, but he said that he'd had a communication saying 426 new pilots were required this year before any leavers are even replaced. I don't know how many will come from CTC but I'm sure enough to empty the pool at some point. Here's hoping!

DragStrut,

That's excllent news for you and the June guys, hopefully the movement will start to gather pace. I hope not to be in the pool for as long as you guys, I go horribly wrinkly and prune like if in water for too long, not pretty! :eek:

[pushapproved]

Hi All,

I too hope to be joining the pool in the very near future, remain positive, the jobs are there, it's just a case of waiting for the training slots! Remember this is a rumour network not a fact network.

Cheers,

PA

[Kerropi]

Dragstrut,

Thanks for the update. I hope to dive into the pool after passing my AQC in April/May. I currently work as an application administrator in the Netherlands. If I pass my AQC I would like to quit my job as quickly as possible because I have to give my employer a 3 months notice. Should this be any problem for CTC? Seeing that some of you guys nearly waited 6 months to be picked up out of the pool I don't think this will be a problem?

Anyway.. any updates on this topic is welcome or PM me for info on the AQC.

K.

[Honeycomb]

Kerropi,
Perhaps you'll have to wait 3 months or more before you get a TR, after you've finished your aqc. But perhaps 3 months is even a good estimate? But one can never be too sure, perhaps things will change in the spring time. The best thing for you is probably to monitor this thread closely and try to make a qualified guess as to how long you'll have to wait.

But I can tell you a story about a friend of mine. He came to phase 3 on a friday in March last year, did the aqc the following tuesday and started the TR one week after the course was finished. I don't think this'll happen this year, since the hold pool needs to be emptied first. Like me for example, I finished in december, I'm number 36 or something, I think I'll be on a TR in May-June the earliest...that's my estimate, but obviously I can't know. And if you would end up on the TR course behind me, you wouldn't have waited as long as I had???

I don't know how many atp-ers are being trained at the moment, does anyone else have a clue? I have a feeling the hold pool isn't being filled up very quickly at the moment, or am I wrong?

As for the aqc: Be well prepared, review the basic IFR-rules, read a few Jeppesen-plates and be prepared to work hard and you'll be fine!

Good luck!

HC

[golfrocky]

Heard from a reliable source that a couple of July swimmers recently(last week) went to Monarch. Can anybody confirm this:confused: ? If this is correct I guess we can wipe out the July AQC from the pool.
Did any August champs hear anything, -maybe from JET2?

thanks:ok:

[DragStrut]

Golfrocky,

hi there i was on the June 26th 2006 start AQC and i know that the last legend (you know who u are!) from our course did indeed get a type rating date after interview with Monarch along with 4 guys from the AQC following ours, so there are no guys left swimming from our course anymore.

I dont think you can wipe out the July course though as im sure there was another course run in july after us which as far as i can tell still has swimmers left in the pool.

sure you wont be in the too long as there appears to be ripples in the water and movement is begining i hope

Hope this helps shed a little light on the situation mate, anything else just pm me.

Dragstrut :cool: :cool:

[ChocksAwayUK]

Golfrocky,
[I]...Monarch along with 4 guys from the AQC following ours...

I dont think you can wipe out the July course though as im sure there was another course run in july after us which as far as i can tell still has swimmers left in the pool.


So those 4, plus the six taken from the same AQC group for Thomas Cook = 10. But there were only 9 on that course... hmmmm. Anyway...sounds like they might have cleared that lot from the pool and are possibly onto the August group now.

(Hello, CRC time Ben - hope I pass!)

[DragStrut]

hi jonny

cheers for the update i wasnt sure how many guys were in the pool from that AQC.

(yeah did the CRC yeasterday hopefully i havent done anything recently that will rule me out ha ha ha ah) see you in a couple of weeks mate

:cool: :cool:

[Saffer]

Slowly, slowly catch a monkey! :}

Chocks I think that you are right, it appears that there's nobody left from July, and at least one has been called forward from August - I think!!!!!

All very confusing stuff this...

Fingers crossed, here's hoping :}

[Go_Detent]

Guys, I'm feeling some ripples, any update on recent movement??

I'm heaing rumours some more of you from the August (start) AQC have got placements, in addition to those that went to Jet2 and Monarch...:confused:

Also, CTC mentioned 'other airlines' are in for small numbers, can anyone shed any light on who these might be?

Cheers,
GD.

[golfrocky]

Just a rumour...:cool:
Heard that 4 are having B Med interviews.
A few(2?) are having Jet 2 interviews.
Anything else?

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

From PPJN:-

"After having recruited 370 new pilots, easyJet needs only 50 (FIFTY) people from today until at least next October 2007. The expansion seems to slowing down by now."

Doesn't sound too clever, does it?

[Go_Detent]

Bear in mind the quoted '370' may have CTC pilots factored in, one would certainly hope this is the case based on how positive the last e-mail update was regarding easyjet's forthcoming recruitment plans.

Athough I do agree, it is a little worrying... Does anyone have any further info' on the big orange, or anyone else for that matter?

GD.

[golfrocky]

It could actually be good news. If things really are settling down a bit a easyjet, they might start having resources to train ctc swimmers. There has previously been an optimism from above at ctc about high numbers going to easy this year and that things would soon start to get better. With this in mind I am fairly optimistic about this recent news on ppjn.

[High Wing Drifter]

FlyerGuy,

I emailed CTC and asked the very same thing. There is nothing expected inbound for another 4-6 months :( The reply was heavily caveatted, so effectively don't base any plans on this. I suspect this is what they are hoping for.

[dyingforflying]

does anyone got an idea how long it will take for the october group? i am getting cold and tired of swimming.

[golfrocky]

dyingforflying: Properly not to long as some Sep swimmers have been offered interviews! Seems like Easy are back in business.

[MasterMatz]

Anyone who knows how long it usually takes between the "magic phoncall" and when you start your Type Rating?

[Sky Wave]

nearly 7 months in my case.

But there's no telling. It could be less and it could be longer.

SW

[pushapproved]

From the easyJet website:

"Our pilot recruitment needs for 2007 are close to being met and we are anticipating that further course spaces will not be available until at least October 2007, from which time they will resume again on a monthly basis.

As a result of this, we are offering some pilots, who have already had assessment dates confirmed, the opportunity to postpone these over the next few months in order to prevent a large gap opening between selection success and start date with us."

Not the news we perhaps want to hear, lets hope it doesn't cause any more extended lengths of the pool! :ugh:

[jeteng]

Guys,

I wouldn't worry too much what the EZY web site has to say. At the end of the day to run an airline you need to recruit a balance of pilots from TRI's down to the green chaps like us. What they put on their pages will be a blanket statement. We are to a point already in the system so don't panic. It is in CTC's interest to keep the pool "draining" thats how they make their money. I've been swimming since October and have built up some incredible shoulder muscles just staying afloat :ok:

Keep Swimming and don't forget the goose fat!!!!!!!!God knows what we will look like after this much time in the water:yuk:

[bigjarv]

Anyone know when we are due for an update from CTC? Would be good to get some info from the horses mouth!

:ok:

[Mintflavour]

After a little stir it seems to have gone very quiet again, is this because everyone drowned? or swept out of the pool? or the enthusiatic reporting buddies have gone and now it is upto some new people to keep us updated?Im not in the pool yet so Im a little out of the picture but would still like to know any info. No one has mentioned how many january or febuary AQC made it to the pool. and I am a little lost to how big the pool is at the moment. Any update people would Im sure be widely appreciated.

All the Best

mint

[mattd2k]

Kerrrrsplash! 5 more of us have donned some rather sexy Speedos :} and taken a dive in from the February course. Our understanding was that the pool is now up to 30.

We have been told to expect to be in the pool for about 3-4 months, maybe more, maybe less. Not much more help to you seasoned swimmers but keep your heads above water. :ok:

[dyingforflying]

heeeyy watch it men!!:* ! it is full here! you are almost diving on me!

[Honeycomb]

Hi everyone!
I just have to check; due to problems with my e-mail address lately I would like to ask if anyone has gotten a February-update? We were told we would get an update every month from CTC, but I have only received one of those so far, and that was for December.

Cheers
HC

[waitingwaitingwaitin]

Just thought I would bring this post back to the top.

Man, I am one tired swimmer! I know we just got to be patient but......

I just wondered if anyone has any up to date info on the state of play within airlines/CTC or any news to give us all some more patience/hope or even any recent movement?!?!

Keep talking guys! :)

[dyingforflying]

waitingwaitingwaiting.

same for me. I am so &#*^$# tired as well. I dont understand it anymore. I am waiting so long now. There must be something. BTW, from wich AQC are you?

[SD.]

Anyone been in contact with CTC recently re: when the ATP will reopen applications?

[buggingout]

recent reply from them i.e. 2 weeks ago:

Changing
operational
>needs require us to put a temporary hold on all ATP selection
activity.
>
>When selection activity resumes the first point of notification will
be at
>our website www.ctcaviation.com.
>At present our best estimate is early Autumn but we would ask you to
check
>the website each month for any updates
>In the meantime, thank you for your interest in CTC Wings ATP
programme.
>Regards,
>CTC Wings Selection.

[Instinct]

Here´s what I "know":

Last movements after the "EZY raid" were two guys to FCA (A320) and four guys to TCX (757). Both deals were 6 months contract and I got the impression the possibility for a prolonged employment was bigger with FCA but not ruled out with TCX.

2 guys are still swimming from the AQC that started in September and ended in October. I believe three guys have been taken from the course behind, however I don´t know how many are left from that course.

The general opinion seems to be - not very surprisingly - that the charters are done with the recruitment for the season, but then again, you never know when they might come screaming in panic needing pilots preferably yesterday.

EZY seems to be focusing on their TRSS guys at the moment. There are no CTC people booked for any of the courses in May, however there are a few blank names. This means the names havn´t been given to CTC, but that they´re _probably_ marked for TRSS guys. Again, with a bit of luck...
June and July seemes to be a big black hole as far as EZY is concerned, but the situation in August pretty much matches May. Again though, with a bit of luck.

I don´t know how much of the above is actually news to you all but this is the picture I have from talking to people inside and outside CTC. It´s not a very positive picture but we all know what comes with false hope. To be honest my mindset is to consider any movement over summer as a bonus, not to become dissapointed. Having that said, I´m among the two first in the pool. I´ve been here for seven months and my friends are already flying. After all, in a year well look back laughing at this since we´re after all sitting on pretty much the best deal a newbie can have.

Keep swimming, try not to drown!

/ Instinct

[SD.]

Thanks buggingout, it looks like other avenues need to be looked at! :ugh:

FWIW I emailed them about 2 months ago and June was the magical date for them to reopen apps. So in 2 months, it's been put back from June 'till autumn. :{

[buggingout]

yeah, it'd be nice (interesting) to know if you'd get past phase 1 or not without all this waiting! :bored:

oh well.....back to CV bashing

[ootve]

Hey instinct,

How are you. Thanks for the information bro.
Maybe some opportunity comes around with one of the other partner airlines. But like you said, most of them will probably have there neccesary amount of pilots for this summer season. But you never know, with a bit of luck......I also inflated my matrass again and I m preparing for a upcoming long swim. Take care and speak soon.

[Dried ears]

I think it is absolutely utterly disgraceful that companies like this can take your time, money and hopes for the long distance rollercoaster ride that they appear to have done. The high cost, and presumably high standard of Airline Qualification on the course ought to be rewarded with a guaranteed job, or your money back and compensation to boot. Compensating you for their negligence in taking you on a course when their expertise ought to give them the knowledge that it is unlikely they will find you a job in the short, or even longer term. Compensating you for the loss of money, time and for the anguish involved.

It's high time that far too many people, companies and crooks stopped exploiting the situation of desperate low hours pilots who have already spent far too much of their own money and nerves getting qualified, and it is also time that companies like CTC and others started TELLING THE TRUTH. If they did, of course, far fewer of our brethren would be lining up for what appears to be the outside chance of a job in the distant and undetermined future, and what actually appears to be purely a business opportunity for those supplying these so called qualification packages.

I am sick and tired of the exploitation in this industry, and it's time it was stamped out. Companies like CTC advising you in what is a big financial decision, and charging you money ought to be regulated like the insurance, financial services, and legal professions to name but a few. If they had sold you a with profits endowment on this never never basis it would be an offence, and there would be financial and criminal penalties for such mis selling.

Here endeth the rant. :ugh: :=

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

Well Dried Ears, I don't think anyone at CTC has told us anything that they don't believe themselves. It's a scheme that is over 10 years old and has an excellent record of placing guys into airlines that would have been well out of their league.

But yes, you were right about it being a long distance rollercoaster ride. Something will come up but it does seem to be in the undetermined and distant future. Not a nice situation to be in.

[Jonty]

Just to put your current wait into a little perspective. Seven years ago I was in your position, waiting in the hold pool. It took over a year to get a job, but when it came I was sitting in the front seat of a B757 with barely 200 hours.

Just think about that while you sit there and moan, how many other companies do that for you?

It can be frustrating, but CTC works by forecasting a need from airlines and then having the correct people in place to wave under a chief pilots nose when he/she starts to panic. Most of the time they get it right, sometimes not.

As I have said, it can be frustrating for those left waiting, but it will happen, its just a mater of when.

[Dried ears]

I would argue that occasionally they get it right, as you put it. Most of the time they are just making money. I haven't read one single report of a student who was told categorically, preferably in writing, of the poor forecast before he signed the cheque. As experts they shouldn't be getting it wrong. My stockbroker never gets it wrong, or he goes out of business, he tells me in advance all of the risks and gives an accurate assessment of the liklihood of failure before I give him my money. He's an expert, experts don't get it wrong. Experts have knowledge and skill to make an assessment based on experience and qualifactions. That's what you pay for, not a wing and a prayer chance of a job sometime never.

When they get it wrong they are penalised, and I don't see that happening in aviation employment consultancy, which is the service CTC supply to pilots return for payment.

False promises is what I call it. Period.

[bjkeates]

Dried Ears,

I'd like to refer you to this (http://www.ctcaviation.com/wings/040304.html) page and specifically the following from it:

If I reach the holding pool, how long will it take to be placed with a partner airline?
We wish we could tell you! Sometimes it can be a week, sometimes 6 months or even a year. It depends entirely on demand from the partner airlines.

Am I guaranteed an airline placement if I get through selection?
There are no guarantees but, since 1994 when the ATP Scheme started, all those who reached the holding pool of short listed pilots were placed with an airline. It is just the timing that is hard to predict.

It's there, quite clearly, in black and white. You're not guaranteed a job, as the FAQ answer says, but the 100% placement record speaks for itself. They even say it might take a year. As far as I can see, they're telling nothing but the truth here. What exactly do you want?

[mikehammer]

I think he wants less sales talk and more facts.

[mattd2k]

I think a large part of the problem is that for a good period there was time where graduates were finishing the course and spending only a short time in the hold pool. When I applied last July this was the case.

However, as bjkeates states it clearly explains on their website that you could be in the pool for some time, depending on current demand. When I finished the course in February I was well prepared to spend at least the next 6 months swimming. Obviously it would be nice to get a phone call asking me to start a TR next week but I am certainly under no illusion that it will be a long wait. Despite this, I believe it is still the best place to be for a low hours pilot and the quickest was into the RHS of a jet.

I am in the fortunate position of being an FI so can stay current without any further cost, but I can see it being very frustrating for guys having to pay to fly still.

In the meantime can we keep this thread on track with info about holdpool movement and not when the ATP applications may open again. :ok:

[Instinct]

Jonty:

I don´t know if your post was aimed for me since Dried ears don´t seem to be a part of the holding pool but if that´s the case I just want to make a point of that my post was not a complaint. Rather the opposite in fact, looking at the last part of it. It was merely a contribution with what I believe myself to know since someone asked.
I share your view. In a year we´ll be looking back totally think it was worth the wait. As far as I´m concerned I don´t have to wait a year to believe it´s worth it, I already do.

Dried ears:

As someone pointed out you´re right about the rollercoster part, but that´s about it.
There are many organisations taking advantage of low houred panic stricken pilots but still, after 7 months in the holding pool I tell you CTC is not one of them. I don´t know what you know about the deal but the bottom line is that WE are not the ones they make money from. The main income comes from the type ratings their partner airlines buys from them. We´re just a result of CTC creating their own market which by the way is smart and a win-win situation. The money is nothing compared to for example bying a typerating. On top of that you get one third back in some cases. You enter the right seat without a bond and normal salary.
As far as I´m concerned CTC has never lied, never promised anything they couldn´t keep, never painted a prettier picture of the market then they believe existed and never told anyone there´s a guarantie of job. The fact that they don´t, is a quality mark. I would look out for any airline organisation promising people jobs on these terms. No one, not even your stock broker can guarantie your money to grow, that would be unprofessional. However, you´re right about that if he doesn´t make it happen he´ll be off the market. Guess what, so would CTC. Do you have any idea why they aren´t?
Last thing I heard was that out of about 400 pilots entering the CTC scheme, every one has been employed. They still don´t guarantie employment.

/ Instinct

[waitingwaitingwaitin]

OK! I shall just calm down and be patient once again then!!! It is easy to become dispondant and well.... impatient but the fact of the matter is we are in a great position with a company that has a perfect reputation for placing people, all be it eventually. We just have to trust that they will cotinue to do their job. I don't think they have really mislead anyone as we all know the nature of the beast. It's the industry setup rather than CTC thats at fault. In fact CTC really changed the system to help low houred, non intergrated students get jet jobs for a little more cash.

My only complaint is that their updates are not frequent enough. For the money I've paid I would expect to be kept very much in the loop.

Anyway if they don't inform us we must all keep talking ourselves with any snipets of info both good and bad!

Swim swim swim swim swim!!!!

[boredaccountant]

Dried ears......

WHO ARE YOU? WHAT ARE YOU ? WHAT ARE YOU ON THIS FORUM?

Question one for you to digest.... Why have CTC closed applications to the ATP scheme for the past 6 months ? ? Would that have something to do with the current backlog they are experiencing ? Surely if they were only interested in taking our money and ripping us of they would be still be selecting us with no-where for us to go.

Question two........ what is your aviation industry experience ? Because I need to enlighten you. CTC is the MOST professional, SOUGHT AFTER, highly repected and prestigious crew training centre in the Europe... probably the world.. So if you feel they are out to rip and cheat low hours pilots..... think again..... then my own suggestion for you is to get out of this industry as fast as you can...... because if that is your opinion of the best...........god help you when you come accross the real cowboys in this industry.

We all need tolerance and patience as we react to the changing pilot demand in this industry.

This year has seen four of the Largest UK charters merge into two. MYT/TCX and FCA/TOM. Also FLYBE and BACON have merged. This has affected the rate of placement from hold pool to type rating. As ' INSTINCT ' has said... we are in the best deal in the industry.

It will be a long time until we are 55 years of age on the flight deck.

Enjoy thses few months knowing that a firm job offer is in the bag.

[londonmet]

Dried ears.....dry your eyes son.

[eagle21]

Is it possible to get tax back on the AQC in the UK? If so , what is the procedure?
Thanks

[Troy McClure]

Fat chance.

[boredaccountant]

Eagle21


Value added tax is charged on flight training by HM customs in the United Kingdom at a rate of 17.5%

You will not be entitled to a tax refund regardless of your circumstances ie... whether your a UK resident/ living abroad etc... etc....!!!! Sorry!!!!

Boredaccountant

[bigmustard]

You will not be entitled to a tax refund regardless of your circumstances ie... whether your a UK resident/ living abroad etc... etc....!!!! Sorry!!!!



Now as an accountant you should know better than to make a statement like that!

I started up an aviation related business, registered for vat and successfully claimed back all the VAT and a potion of the cost of my training against income tax.

[Troy McClure]

If you have set up a 'comapny' for tax reasons, can you really claim that a selection course leading to employment with an airline is in your company's interest?

Have heard of people getting CPL/IR tax free by going down that route, but don't think you could wangle an AQC that way.

[bigmustard]

No, But if you have your own aviation related business you can claim it is in your own business interest. If it goes bust after your training and you need to find a job thereafter so be it!

[Dried ears]

Bored accountant: A. None of your business here

Queston 1: I don't know, couldn't go on forever not placing people though.

Question 2: Fairly varied now, but am already closing in on the age you mention later, yet still able to have an opinion in this forum, which differs from your own, although your points are interesting. I would still argue that there has been bad advice given to students, and good advice given to airlines here, who have nothing to lose.

Londonmet: What? Clearly you are too clever for me.:ok:

[boredaccountant]

I would still argue that there has been bad advice given to students, and good advice given to airlines here, who have nothing to lose
Dried ears........ Sorry ? Hum...... please let me know? Exactly what advice HAVE YOU been given by CTC ? ? ? Let me know please ? Because I am a product of the ATP scheme, and I was never given any advice!!!!?!!! The only thing I was told was to work hard on your AQC to make the holding pool.
The guys I trained with last Sep/Oct are now line flying for Easyjet on their Airbus and Thomas Cook Airlines on the 757-200/300 . . . . . . need i say another word that highlights the success of this scheme ?
bigmustard .... claiming VAT on personal flight training fees as a buiness expense?! Sounds dodgy to me, but if customs let you away with it good luck buddy!

[Dried ears]

Bored Accountant: My argument originated, albeit some time ago now, around a comparison between the regulation of advice given by other professionals who have to answer to a regulatory body in such matters. I was attempting to assert the opinion that there is no such regulation of companies like CTC, even by the CAA, in such matters. :ok:

need i say another word that highlights the success of this scheme ?


For me, yes, a few words defending them for not finding jobs for the many pilots they have "Qualified", rather than highlighting a very small number who you happen to know, and who have found work.

[Sky Wave]

For me, yes, a few words defending them for not finding jobs for the many pilots they have "Qualified", rather than highlighting a very small number who you happen to know, and who have found work

Dried Ears, are you for real? How can you suggest that only "a very small number" of people have found work through CTC? The vast majority of FO's that I bump into at EZY have come from CTC, CTC have placed hundreds of pilots over the years and there's no reason to suspect that anything has changed.

I know that 14 people left the pool between January and March this year which was all AQC's up to July 06. I understand from an earlier poster that people are being taken from the October AQC now, which means about another 20 people have been placed this year. On top of that they are also placing Wings Cadets with airlines.

As, has already been said, CTC make no promises about the timescales involved. The airlines keep their cards very close to their chests so CTC have no way of accurately predicting pilot demand, all they can do is make sure that they have sufficient pilots in the holding pool to be able to meet the demand when it comes. CTC have closed their doors to ATP entrants because of the amount of people in the pool, but I have no doubt that every person in the pool will be given a type rating and placed with an airline eventually, assuming the swimmers don't find themselves alternative employment in the meantime.

I can understand your frustration but to suggest that CTC do not place many pilots with airlines, or suggest that CTC are somehow cheating people is just total rubbish.

Sit back, relax and enjoy the time off, because it gets very very busy once they do place you.

SW

[Dried ears]

I'm not waiting, my comments arose from reading here and elsewhere about the numbers who are in fact waiting. I don't have the benefit of having been on the course so I don't comment from the position of insider like you seem to.

Reading here seemed to suggest things have in fact changed, contrary to your own argument, although there are one or two who have since posted and contested this.

And yes, I am quite real.

[scroggs]

DE, though your arguments may hold water in relation to many Flying Training Operators in the marketplace, CTC have a pretty good reputation in the field. The system they employ means essentially that they do not take on those who are unlikely to be successful in obtaining an airline position, and their reputation in the industry means that the employment rate of their graduates is nearer 100% than 90%. Some have to wait a while, but that's the nature of the market.

So, nice try. Wrong target.

Scroggs

[Dried ears]

Sc, If it's ok with you, I'll stick to my cynicism.

[waitingwaitingwaitin]

I'm after a bit of advice if I may trouble you all.

I am in the hold pool with CTC and not too far from the top of the pile as I understand it. Have just had a call from another employer to start on a type rating on an E145. Do I take it or hold on for CTC to come good? My preference is CTC for a better type rating and, in my opinion better companies (in terms of terms and conditions) but I just don't know when the call will come from CTC. No one seems too. Bird in the hand and all that is the counter argument! :confused:

Any advice will be gratefully recieved! I'm guessing most of you will say take it cause thats one less peron in the hold pool but please try to be objective, helpfull and nice!!!!!!!!! :ok:

[Penworth]

Waitingwaitingwaitin. I was in the same position as you a year or so ago, I was going through the CTC process, while at the same time doing the assesments for Flybe. In the end I went with CTC as, like you, it was my preferred option in terms of type rating, future career progress etc. However, I was in the fortunate postion of moving almost immediately from the AQC to the type rating, which obviously isn't the case now.
If I were you I would call CTC and see if you can get some kind of rough idea of how long you will be waiting. Just explain to them that they are your preferred option but that you have another option which you are considering. Are you having to pay for the E145 type rating? That may be quite a big consideration because as you know the type rating is free with CTC (providing you pass it!).

Dried Ears. Not quite sure where your cynicism is coming from, as far as I know every single pilot who has passed the CTC selection process and AQC has gone on to fly for 6 months for a partner airline. A small minority have not been given permanent contracts after that, but that's hardly CTC's fault! Communication may not be CTC's strong point, but the fact is that if you get in the holding pool, you will get put on a type rating course and line training with an airline sooner or later.
PW

[waitingwaitingwaitin]

Not paying for the type rating on the E145 but will be bonded. Have already contacted CTC and they are very non commital suggesting that they have no reason to believe things will not continue to move as it has been.

[Troy McClure]

Guys, it's obvious: Dried Ears failed selection for CTC. That's where the cynicism comes from.

I for one look forward to receiving that phone call from CTC, whenever it may come. And waitingwaitingwaitin, if it's the same E145 operator as I'm thinking of, I'm in that hold pool too. Hoping they don't call me (though it goes against the grain to say it), to save me the dilemma you describe. Know of at least one other that turned down the E145 offer because they figured CTC was a better bet. At least with a CTC partner you start on a jet salary, not a TP one... ;)

[Superpilot]

Looking at the long term future of the ATP scheme, any views on if this scheme will last for much longer? (even if it re-opens for a bit in June). CTC's Wings scheme (Easyjet/Monarch/Thomas Cook packaged integrated training) is still functioning side by side and doing an (obviously) very good job feeding cadets into airlines.

I wanted to apply to it after completing the CPL/IR/ME but being realistic about it, I can't see it happening now that ez's recruitment woes are over.

[shootfromthehip]

and their reputation in the industry means that the employment rate of their graduates is nearer 100% than 90%.

Well my experience of CTC (sutoa's) is that out of my intake the two the selected, 1 failed (as he was a ****.... allededly), and all of us who didn't get selected (100%) are flying for airlines................. CTC = £££££££££

[Troy McClure]

Looks like we've got another one who failed selection..... Pattern developing here.

Can we get this thread back on track and limited to those who are actually in the pool?

[pushapproved]

Quite right Troy McClure...this is for the ATPers already in the holdpool. :D
I am more than happy with the training I received, frustrating as it is waiting and waiting, ('swimming in the pool'), I know I'm in a good place to wait. Meanwhile who knows what else may happen...welcome to the aviation industry!
So how is the pool doing? Last I heard there were 30 in the pool, with some more joining from the April course...
Sep - 0?
Oct - 4/7?
Nov - 4
Dec - 6
Jan - 3
Feb - 5
Mar - 8
Apr - ?
Anyone know different/more accurate figures?

[Troy McClure]

6 from the March course, not 8. That made the pool up to 31 as I understand it.

[Instinct]

I can only answer for the september course. (That is the one starting
Sep -06 ending Oct -06) We´re actually two left in there after an emotional rollercoaster during spring with a few opportunities just not reaching all the way due to merger of companies etc. As I wrote earlier my mindset is to have a relaxed summer trying not to worry to much, looking at everything else as a bonus.
As you put a question mark on the course behind us I might add I believe you´re right. According to what I´ve heard three has been taken from there.

Instinct

[Failed]

April group

8 in total. 1 failed..... how do i know??? I was the one who failed.

:ouch:

To the guys who were in the april group: Best of luck :ok: !!!!! I hope you all soon start your type rating course :D

Greetings from the SCOOTERFANATIC!!!!

[Mintflavour]

7 off us went through to the pool from the April Course. We were told that we joining 30 others already in the pool.

Splash x 7 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


mint

[pushapproved]

From today's information, correct me if I'm wrong...
Sep - 2
Oct - 4
Nov - 4
Dec - 6
Jan - 3
Feb - 5
Mar - 6
Apr - 7
Total 37

[mattd2k]

The numbers look good to me. It means I am higher in the pool than I thought! :ok:

I think there is now only 4 from the Feb course as I believe one of us has since started with Flybe. Not placed by CTC I would add. :D

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

37 is quite a lot! I have a horrible feeling that some of us could easily be waiting 12 months+ in total. I read on a thread in terms of endearment that EZJ, might have gone too heavy on the recruitment and are now over-crewed. Therefore, recruitment will not resume until November at the earliest, not a good thing. I can't think of any of the partner airlines that are likely to be in the market for pilots until next year. The only hope seems to be that Virgin and BA recruit heavily causing a pull through effect, opening up vacancies in the partner airlines.....wishful thinking.

[pushapproved]

37 does sound a lot but it could also empty rapidly when the time comes. It won't be long before some airlines start their recruitment drive for next year, they usually like to have a mix of experience so you never know. Some may also find alternative employment as it would seem from the Feb course...congrats :ok:


When the guys, (and girls if there are any), near the front of the line get fished out spare a thought for the rest of us and drop us a line to let us know you've gone so we can share in your jubilation and occupy our minds working out when our turn may come :E


Meanwhile I guess it looks like this:


Sep - 2
Oct - 4
Nov - 4
Dec - 6
Jan - 3
Feb - 4
Mar - 6
Apr - 7
Total 36

[pushapproved]

Interesting to see numbers have disappeared from more recent courses, if true, I can only assume that some peeps have secured employment elsewhere??

[bigjarv]

Dec still at 6 as far as I know.

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

So, the list reduced by two from September and two from October. Was that because they were placed with airlines or because the list info was slightly wrong? Nice work pushapproved, thanks for your efforts!

[pushapproved]

I don't know why numbers are disappearing from more recent courses, as I have said before can only assume that either airlines have 'pledged' to take ATPs and then changed their minds, for whatever reason... or people have found alternative employment in the meantime.

Cooluk, you seem adamant about the December numbers, I guess you know something we don't so I make the numbers as follows:

Sep - 2
Oct - 4
Nov - 4
Dec - 4
Jan - 3
Feb - 4
Mar - 6
Apr - 7

Total 34

[boredaccountant]

COOLUK
Just spoke with September and October swimmers.......


Sept 2
Oct 4


Hence NO CHANGE!!!!

[boredaccountant]

Lets hope CTC is about to place the sept 2 and 2/4 from oct any day!!!!!

Either that of they have forgotton about them!!!

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

I think CTC, are talking about the END month of the course rather than the START month. Hence when they are talking about the December group, they are talking about the course starting in November that finished in December. Catch my drift?

[pushapproved]

Just to clarify, the numbers I've used are based on the month the course started. If anyone believes the numbers to be different on that basis, speak up! They should all add up the same.

[Dried ears]

Why can't you just ring CTC up and ask them for the figures - you're the client after all? Ring them every month if you want to know.

(By the way: No I haven't done the course, far too old for that, and yes, I WOULD fail it, quite right there, whoever said it.)

[waitingwaitingwaitin]

There is an advert in Flight International in the job section for Monarch Airlines. They are after first officers for their "ongoing recruitment" needs. I wonder if this is a sign of some iminent movement for us or is that just wishfull thinking?!?!?

:rolleyes:

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

Have you read the Monarch thread on Terms of Endearment? Maybe this could shed some light on what is happening over there and why they might be "looking."

[waitingwaitingwaitin]

Did anyone else get a copy of "the Standard". I see the guy that sorts out our placements has been promoted. I do hope he can find the time to maybe send us an update at some point and let us know roughly where we are on the list of priorities and whats going on. If there is nothing to tell then so be it but at least let us know that we are being thought of. I know we are in a good position, must be patient and all that but I have paid a fair amount of cash, we all have, and at least we should occasionally get a honest update (which would only take 30 min to write once a month as promised) with good or bad news to keep us in the picture. I would like to at least have some guide as to how to plan my life over the next year and what to expect.

I know CTC are sound but they simply don't communicate with us. It's most frustrating. CTC if you are listening please put me out my misery and stop me complaining by sending an update!!!!!

PPPLLLEEEAAASSSEEE!!!!

Feel a bit better for that rant! My apologies!!! :\

PS Last update recieved 30th March. Am I the only one who feels negelcted?

[ootve]

Hello Guys,

If it is any help to you all. I have information from a very reliable source that one of the sept/oct Aqc guys is out of the holdpool and placed with one of their partners. So keep swimming guys, your time will come......

Cheers,

[Instinct]

Just to confirm what ootve just wrote. One has gone to TR as of 4:th of June, i.e. there is now one person left in the sept/oct course.

[boredaccountant]

Well done to our colleague who has recently commenced type rating.

Hang in there everyone.... our day will come!

[dodge123]

If it is any help to you all. I have information from a very reliable source that one of the sept/oct Aqc guys is out of the holdpool and placed with one of their partners.

Any idea which partner airline this person was placed with?

[Instinct]

Yes, that would be Jet2, 737, Leeds base.

/ Instinct

[no sponsor]

Great for them...

...and for those of us already in jet2 who had to pay for our TR and are on the 'transfer' list to go to Leeds on a first-come first-served basis :ugh:

[Troy McClure]

Pays your money, takes your choice. Could have been with airline 2 years ago if I'd paid for a TR but don't see why I should have to....

[flan]

Troy,

Maybe you should have paid two years ago! Surely waiting for CTC to call you and then when finally placed with an airline working for less than a direct entry F/O for several years. Are you not really still paying for your type rating in the end?

Nothing is free!

Two years wasted???:confused:And still waiting!

[bigjarv]

Thinks it's a matter of principal for Troy. Someone has to have them! Don't like this new precedent that has been set of paying for type ratings, not for me but future pilots coming through the system. Selfless aren't I!!!!

Some of us can't get jobs without buying a type rating whilst others of us are turning down jobs and don't have type ratings. Go figure!!!

Congrats and good luck to the one that has moved out of the pool! :ok: Am in hot persuit and swimming frantically with excitement!!!

PS No reduced salary for us!

[KindolFaret]

finally placed with an airline working for less than a direct entry F/O for several years.In the CTC Wings ATP programme you enter with Direct Entry Salary and no bond. You're free once you've finished your line training. You're only bonded during uu line training.

Good luck to you all!

[Troy McClure]

Not 100% a principle issue for me, just never seems a good time. There's always been something in the pipeline, just a couple of months to wait.....

Would I abandon the hold pool with CTC now to pay for a type rating?: No. Similar was true 2 years ago.

In the meantime, have done a few decent jobs that I wouldn't have missed.

Let's have a call from CTC in the near future, and I'll have no regrets.

[Sky Wave]

Flan

We (ATPers) do not work on a reduced salary for several years. After we've completed the 6 months line experience (a.k.a. slave labour) we enter on direct entry FO salary.

Although, you do have an interesting point. If troy was offered an equivalent job 2 years ago, on say a 737 or an A320 I'm guessing the TR would have probably cost around £30000. If he/she had been earning around £30k per year with that airline then they could be £30k better off assuming they've not been working in civvy street for the past 2 years. You also don't have to undergo the CTC 6 month slave labour at £1000 per month.

Doing the maths, Troy could have been much better off and 2 years higher up the seniority ladder if he/she had paid for the type rating! With over 500 hours Troy could be in BA by now if that’s what he/she fancied. I accept that you could have had a very well paid non airline job which you were doing over the past 2 years which would destroy my logic, I just thought it was an interesting point. I wasn’t in such a fortunate position to be offered a job subject to type rating, in fact the only sniff of an interview that I got was with CTC!

Anyway guys, enough of my ramblings. Hang on in the hold pool, the call will come and I assure you it's great once you’re through the other side of the system. I was in the pool from June 06 and started with EZY in January 07. It’s worth the wait, and it’s really satisfying to know you’ve made it to the RHS of a jet without paying for the type rating, in fact if you consider that CTC pay us £6500 in subsistence plus a £2000 bonus for passing your final line check then they actually pay £2000 more than the initial outlay.

I realise it’s not about the money, but CTC is the best deal on the market and you’re all in a very good position. Just keep swimming.

SW

[Frank Furillo]

Just keep swimming!!!!!!! Are all you guys related to Dory by any chance?





For reference look at "Finding Nemo" by Pixar




I'm a great white shark called Bruce....what type of fish are you?

[flan]

Frank Furillo aka Bruce

I think I might be Crush, Keep on swimming:)

[Boonanza]

Tough choice... I felt a bit like Dory after finishing the AQC - it took me about a week after finishing to work out where I was or what I was doing...!

Righto.. back to swimming - every day spent is one closer to starting the TR :D :D :D

[Mintflavour]

How many made it through the May AQC and is there a June AQC currently going through or is that it now until they (if) start up round 3 and open up for applications again.

mint

[Boonanza]

from memory, ATP wise I think the April course was one of the last AQC's... does anyone else have any other info?
:}

[Mintflavour]

I was took up the oppertunity to move from the May 7th to the April course, so I can only assume that there was a May course, also I was in contact with a guy who was supposed to be on the May course but have heard anything from him since april.

Mint

[cortilla]

I'd heard that the last one was the may course, atleast temporarily and until the NZ guys start heading back in significant numbers. Any one going out of the top?? Let's be fair there won't be much movement until after the summer season but still lets hope all the charter airlines and easy suddenly realise they need 30 odd people now (wishful thinking i know)

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

When you say "Cadets," do you mean that there are not places for ATP'ers on the September TR?

[cortilla]

Just out of curiosity. 3 out of how many?

[Troy McClure]

And why hasn't Monarch started snapping people up? All info points to them being desperately short of FO's. Or are they poaching all those ex BACON people who have rejected flybe's new contract?

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

Perhaps because it will take a while to get the CTC guys online. By that time the summer seasons over and they would be overcrewed.

[KindolFaret]

When I say Cadets I mean that the TR courses offered by EZY are going to be for the Cadets and not for the ATPs at least the ones in Sept, 'cause there is a little queue of Cadets waiting for their training after the summer.

[Jesper Goldberg]

Hey All

I am doing a bit of financial planning for the future with my bank:), and currently in the holding pool like the rest of you.

Does anyone know how much you would get paid after tax and health insurance etc. each month if we end up at Easy,taking into account flightpay etc? I got less than 1500 hours so will be joining as FO. I know we don´t get paid more than 1000£ during linetraining

I am not from Uk so that is the reason for asking?

thanks guys

regards Jesper

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

Try www.ppjn.com, you will find the pay scales on there.

[Jesper Goldberg]

I know about payscales on ppjn, but I guess that is before tax, I am asking after tax and expenses you can deduct etc.
Regards Jesper

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

My mistake. How about:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_tax_system

The numbers, you'll have to crunch yourself.

[fokkertje]

Jesper,
I joined as an ATP into easyJet last year. Also from outside the UK and with less then 1500 hours, so starting as a junior first officer (two stripes).
After tax it leaves on average 2700 pounds into my account, that is including an average months worth of sector pay. This is all after tax, not bad he!?
Of course, the first six months you are on the 1000 allowance (taxfree) and no sector pay either. Hope this helps! Fokkertje

[Troy McClure]

Try this page - very useful little site; works it all out for you:

http://www.listentotaxman.com/

Think starting salary is £36000 after line training. Just stick in the gross income and it will tell you how much salary you'll get per month.

[bigjarv]

Thats a great web site! Can't help putting in that potential captains salary! Seems to help me swim!!

Advert in the back of Flight International this week for Easyjet. Still looking for experienced guys with.....

You must hold a JAA or UK frozen/unfrozen ATPL and MCC and have a minimum total experience 500 hours multi-crew commercial experience ranging from medium/heavy turboprop to medium/heavy jets or military background (heavy transport, fast jet or multi crew rotary).

They also say....

Our pilot recruitment needs for 2007 have now been met and we are anticipating that further course spaces will not be available until at least November 2007, from which time they will resume again on a monthly basis.

We would, however, be delighted to receive applications as these will be held against potential assessment activity later in the year. If your application matches our entry requirements, (including those around our specific fleet and base needs), we will contact you about the timing of this activity but we are currently anticipating a timeframe of several months between receipt of your application and assessment invitation.

So nothing too exciting for us really. Just info but maybe signs of possible iminent movement? Brightened my day!

So now I'll try a bit of backstroke me thinks!!!! :ok:

[cortilla]

I've dug out the old rubber coated brick, reminded myself how to make a life jacket out of PJ's and started stitching old badges back onto the towel.

Lets look at it honestly though. Aviation is still growing strongly, it's just the summer season and noone should be too surprised about the summr slow down r.e. hiring. Some info would be nice but ho hum

[flan]

A question
If the proposed mergers of MyTravel /Thomas Cook and First Choice /TUI go through, generally when airlines merge this leads to a streamlining of aircraft and crews i.e redundancy (as History shows!)
If redundancies occour at the end of this summer with an excess of type rated and highly expeienced drivers on the job market where does this leave the swimmers?
Monarch are presently only looking for experieced drivers as Troy pointed out, not swimmers. (The holdpool has pleanty of fish available to bite, but they are not yet fishing in the pool. Forgot their license?)
easyJet by their own admission have stated that they have over recruited and will not be looking until the end of the year at the earliest and if redundancy has come due to the above mergers they are going to have plenty of experienced pilots that they can look at first, who may not require type rating and then line training, only the mininum sectors required. Ultimately saving the company money (Keeping the accountants happy)
CTC have now closed the present scheme- do they know something about the market place at the minute and are keeping quiet. Are they waiting to see what happens in the job market if these mergers do go through and they let some experienced crews go?
How long can you swim for with no real info?

[waitingwaitingwaitin]

Lack of info is a very poor show indeed. Does anybody fancy telling them because they obviously don't read this thread? Perhaps we are all too scared about being put to the back of the pool as punishment for our complaint or perhaps we are just too English to complain?!?! I can't believe they don't realise how long and painful the silence is for us.

Who is more pathetic? Them for not updating us or us for not telling them, as paying customers, we need info?

[Troy McClure]

Surely it's unlikely crews will be laid off as a result of the mergers, though there may be a few freed from their contracts that will look elsewhere for something better?

Any job losses will be in management etc unless aeroplanes are going to be shelved and that's unlikely in the current market.

Sure, there'll be a slow down in recruitment while they sort themselves out, but these are mergers between growing airlines, not takeovers of bankrupt ones.

bigjarv: cheer yourself up even more by putting flybe's TP FO salary into aforementioned website... ;) And then keep your fingers crossed that we get a call during the current tax year - would be nice get more than that tax free allowance this year for a change....

[Wodka]

regarding the ezy saab's - ha ha ha... that is total bollocks! trust me :)

& the reason the rate of people has slowed/stopped is because all the courses have been filled upto sept at the moment.

[shaun ryder]

cheer yourself up even more by putting flybe's TP FO salary into aforementioned website...

That sounds kind of funny coming from someone with no airline job?

How elitist.

I hope you don't end up eating your words Troy.

[Rollerboy]

Well I have to say _pudknocker_ that is one of the the most sensible posts on this thread I have read yet. Thinking about it CTC, they would not want the scheme selected well rounded individuals to be putting all there eggs into one basket.

Guys there are jobs out there, "swimming around" as you put it is a waste of valueable time. There are other ways of getting a job. Spread your eggs guys!

Good on you _pudknocker_ spot on post.

[bigjarv]

Yup! Damned right!! Especially those of you in the pool in front of me, you guys should really "spread your eggs". I mean there are tons of jobs out there. Better still just drop out the pool before you have found another job. That shows real commitment to a potential employer!!!!
Tee Hee!
:E

[Rollerboy]

Good point Shaun

Maybe it's those guys that have been working for flybe and not waiting in the hold pool that have been used to fill Ezy pilot requirements!!

I myself know of plenty of ex Tprop drivers that are filling jobs at Ezy/TCook and BA.

[Troy McClure]

Shaun,

flybe comment was a private joke with bigjarv. He knows what I was getting at......

CTC seems best bet all round; I for one am happy to take a chance on it working out - just a matter of when.

Troy.

[shaun ryder]

Hey Troy, no offence was meant by my last post mate. As said by Roller, you may be missing out, I know that some of the jobs out there dont pay the best. But would you rather be flying or crying?? :ok:

I hope that I see some of you guys on the line soon. Good luck!

[bigjarv]

Pudknocker,
That’s a bit harsh isn't it? Bit of an assumption bearing in mind you have no idea who Troy is and what he's about, but I suppose, because you are one of the lucky ones waving at FL350, you are allowed to be smug and a little condescending! Where abouts is he in the pool, what job is he doing now (perhaps he is flying and I mean really flying in little aeroplanes, the fun stuff remember?!), what are his TRUE reasons for not taking a job? Any idea? Thought not! If you ask me doing the CTC thing is a pretty pro active way of getting a job without paying for a type rarating. I assume you are bitter about not getting into CTC and that’s where your anger comes from but I'd never say that because I just don't know! Perhaps you are really trying to be helpful and not expressing yourself terribly well?! Just don't know!
I totally agree with your other post, genuinely. Keep looking for other jobs because you never know what is round the corner and what you can get especially having been successfully vetted by CTC. Don't sit on your laurels and all but no need get nasty buddy. Well done on overcoming failure with CTC and finding success. That takes spirit.
Anyway! Lets not get into a typical pprune pointless slagging match and get this thread back on track in good positive spirits! It is a CTC hold pool thread after all! We all want it to work out and I'm sure it will!
;)

[shaun ryder]

Maybe pudnoker is a bit harsh there, but you are right searching for a job while you wait has to be worth it?

[mikehammer]

If you ask me doing the CTC thing is a pretty pro active way of getting a job


Then why is everyone here fed up that no job, or news for that matter, is coming their way?

[bigjarv]

Think the answers are in your own question!!!!!!!



Happy friday!

[mikehammer]

So are you saying, Bigjarv, that it is in fact a pro active way of finding a job? Or that it isn't?

[bigjarv]

Yes I do as I stated in my previous post. When I applied to the scheme last year, when things were VERY buoyant, I would have said that there was no better opportunity on the market to get a low houred modular trained guy to the pointy end of a jet for a good quality "career" airline, without paying for a type rating and without being ripped off for salary on completion. I still think that because, if you take out the partner airlines, who else is there to apply to that is a better opportunity on short haul? Perhaps BA but I believe they have been known to take from the hold pool on occasion and the Irish (won't go there!!!!). I personally don't feel that it is worth applying or accepting a position that offers less of an opportunity and terms and conditions than those that CTC's partner airlines are offering, bearing in mind that I have already been accepted and am in a hold pool in which I WAS moving up quite nicely. If you were in a hold pool for easy would you accept a sooner job with say eastern? If you work for Eastern I really don't mean to offend so please don't go there I just wanted to make a point!!!

Is it a good opportunity and a pro active way of getting a job? Hell yes and with a company that currently has a perfect 100% record for placing people. Am I taking a gamble by turning down what I consider lesser jobs? Yes but I think it is a calculated gamble and at my age I want to shoot for the highest I can, to get my career on track. Shame really because if I was younger, I would have loved to fly everything I could get my hands on before the "push button flying". Lets be honest, out of all the flying jobs out there, airline flying has to be the worst if you love flying but it pays for the biggest house whilst still doing more or less what you love. So while the wait is frustrating (because I am proper skint!) I still love flying my little aeroplane around the sky and giving something to my students! FL 350 sounds comparatively dull! Things have slowed down and news has been scarce which I am disappointed with CTC about and by the sounds of things, so are others. On direct contact thou I have been assured that nothing untoward is going on so my gamble still stands and as Shaun says, I hope to not be disappointed.

I hope that gives you an honest answer to your question and why I think it is pro active. All of the above is my opinion and if you want to discuss further please PM me or start another thread about the worth of CTC's opportunity. Please don't hijack this one.

[pilotho]

When you are in the holding pool, does that mean you can't go out and apply for jobs yourself?

[Boonanza]

Pilotho; its quite the opposite, I would be surprised if most of us still don't have applications pending in other places. There are no obligations from either side when one enters the holding pool, thus there always remains the risk that you are not guaranteed a job... however in saying that, it is a pretty safe bet.

Hope everyone is making the most of the summer whilst swimming!


:ok: Boonanza

[mikehammer]

Bigjarv


On direct contact thou I have been assured that nothing untoward is going on so my gamble still stands and as Shaun says, I hope to not be disappointed.



So what specific reasons were you given for the delay and lack of information?

[Troy McClure]

So, finally an update from LW. 39 in the pool is about what we had agreed, and reasons for lack of recruitment mirror our own thoughts - slow time for recruitment this time of year during the summer season, and mergers between 4 of the partners. Thanks for the update CTC.

[mikehammer]

Good luck chaps.

[cortilla]

So any rumblings at the moment?

[Mintflavour]

Only a frustrated one.......... just bored of the wait

mint

[bigjarv]

Everyone everywhere keeps talking pilot shortages. Its all I keep seeing everywhere.... so..... erm..... We are waiting why?!?!?!? Come on! I'm ready to go and hungrier for it than ever!!

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

With Thomas Cook, My Travel and Thomsonfly all threatening to make experienced, type rated pilots redundant, there isn't going to be any pilot shortage. If you're at the back of the holdpool, start applying elsewhere.

[bigjarv]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Why why why?!?!?!?

[cortilla]

Why on earth would thomas cook be laying off 70 pilots (source ppjn). I know they've merged, but surely they're keeping all the a/c and still need the crew. Frustrating.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[KindolFaret]

Don't create alarm please... Things are stopped at this time, we know that, CTC knows that and they've just told us about it. Just relax and enjoy your life. Our day will come. Don't worry. Planes still need to be flown by two pilots.

[Boonanza]

no need to panic... we are all still in the best position we have ever been in our flying careers. Sure it might mean a bit longer wait, but it'll be well worth it and with the volume of training at Nursling with non-wings partner airlines, another partner might be signed up and the holding pool drained within weeks... everything is possible in this business!

In the meantime, the PMDG B737NG does a good job to help keep proficient...

:ok: Boonie

[eagle21]

Is it true that ATP guys do get a certain amount of money back after completing line training with the partner airlines?
Pm
Thanks

[ChocksAwayUK]

Yup, £2K. Certainly helps to pad out the subsistence allowance as well as tide over the potential 2 months between last CTC pay and first airline pay.

[Troy McClure]

Reckon we'll still get that £2000? Or will the goalposts be permanently shifted....?

:mad:

[Troy McClure]

Monarch are looking for FO's - let's hope they approach CTC for a few of them. 39 would be nice....

[dbdb]

Guys,

When is the last time anyone from the holding pool was actually plucked for employment. Also what is the longest time currently that anyone has spent in the pool. As I understand it from previous posts there are approx 39 of you. Is there any information forthcoming from CTC about future employment or are you just expected to sit around/get part time jobs and wait for a call.

Cheers in Advance.

[bigjarv]

Anyone got any news of movement or anything for that matter? Got to be about due another update!

[pushapproved]

No doubt another update to say nothing's happening...yet :}

[Superpilot]

According to PPJN, Monarch is looking to hire 50 this winter. Of course, I'm not saying all 50 of them are going to be CTC ATP cadets!

http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/factfile.php?id=ug23sc0aqmzz11fcrp3j7wf3beb62arkgehyg3wubjg0 7k0mztv

[shaun ryder]

Monarch has a pool of pilots already waiting to start courses. Who knows whats happening there?

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

Perhaps they'll send an update to congratulate those that will soon have waited one year in the pool on their first anniversary. Sure, Monarch will take a few, they always do, but I can't see any major demand from the other partner airlines. Keep applying elsewhere; not fair but that's the way it seems to be.

Anyone see the CTC/Club 328 ad in Flight International? What do you make of that then?

[mistadarling]

Has anyone heard anything from Easy Jet? They still say they'll start recruiting in November. How do you all think this will affect us? Monthly intake from pool?

[ICING AOA]

Has anyone heard anything from Easy Jet? They still say they'll start recruiting in November. How do you all think this will affect us? Monthly intake from pool?


there is an extremely big holding pool at easyJet. Lots of TRSS and DEC passed already the selection process a couple of months ago and were told that they won't be starting before at least next spring.
So I am not sure they will need inexperienced cadets.
good luck

[Mintflavour]

Also looking at another thread, it seems to suggest EZY are pretty over crewed at luton this winter.

As I understand the airlines agree to take so many cadets, Us ATPers then fill the gaps, so I don't think there will be many gaps to fill from pool this coming recruitment season.

The best hope is Monarch who want 50 pilots this winter, and at best, I feel only about 10 will probably come from the hold pool as Im sure they will want to take on a spread of experience. ( just my speculation and not based on any facts).

I havent heard a peak out of CTC for a while now so I can only assume they don't know much more than we do.

To be honest Im loosing hope of being fished out of the pool this winter:ugh:

Sorry to be on a downer......... bad day at work.

Hopefully something will happen soon

mint

[KindolFaret]

I wanna ask something to you all. Do you think there's the possibility to stay more than a year in the pool? And the possibility of seeing the ATP Holdpool cancelled? Or the benefits and conditions of the contracts with the partner airlines downgraded?

Greets

[Mintflavour]

Do you think there's the possibility to stay more than a year in the pool? And the possibility of seeing the ATP Holdpool cancelled? Or the benefits and conditions of the contracts with the partner airlines downgraded?


a: yes, I think there is few coming up to their 1 year anniversary, and being nearer the back end of the pool I wouldn't be surprised to see my one year anniversary at the current stagnant rate.

b: No I don't think it will be cancelled... Things have slowed up in terms of recruitment with the partnership airlines due to mergers, BACON guys going to EZY etc. so its just bad timing on our part. Above all CTC have a reputation to keep and dumping 37-39 guys currently in the hold pool who they have already invested a small chunk of money in then what’s the point. We are not costing them anything while we contiue to swim. We are fortunate that we are not bonded and free to find an alternative route should we want to.

C: I hope not but I guess that will depend on how much CTC want to get rid of us or how desperate we get. We need to remember we went this route because we liked what it said on the tin, and again it would not do CTC much good to do otherwise without our consent.. I still believe they will continue to work hard to help us out.

Hopefully we will get an update from them soon!!

Mint

[Troy McClure]

Firstly, some have already been in the hold pool for more than a year. At last count, there were still some people from the September AQC in the pool, and not heard that there's been any movement recently.
Cancelling the pool I'd like to think would be damaging to CTC's reputation. They are a well respected type rating provider after all, and partner airlines like to have a mix of FO's including a few low houred ones. If CTC is doing the type ratings, it's in the airline's interest to take on a few CTC-recommended people (ie out of the pool) as it saves them having to interview, sim ride, etc. etc. In that respect, CTC is acting as a recruitment agency too.
Changing the conditions - let's hope not....

PS: Must have had the web page open for longer than I thought and Mintflavour beat me to it. Same sentiments though.

[cortilla]

i wonder if anyone from the hold pool is going to club 328??

[Heavens Above]

I very much doubt it.. unless they can't find enough candidates from the applicants they already have/interviewing.

Do many ATP's have the 1000 hours they where looking for? I don't know... Also to be in the hold pool, CTC will have already put them through the phase 1-4 where as Club328 seem to be starting from scratch and interviewing themselves.

Interesting point though..

[Mintflavour]

Never bothered looking at the ad ...... was it 1000TT or type/TP specific?

and unfortunately I dont have that number of hours.

Mint

[Tommy' C]

Perhaps it has already been mentioned, however BA are looking for around 170 pilots each year for the next three years. Maybe they will look at the holdpool to acquire some of this number?

Regards

[Mintflavour]

To those who have been in the pool or in the pool this time last year? What month/s tends to be the peak time for us to be dragged out of the pool?

Cheers

[Tommy' C]

I am not in the pool nor have I been in it, although the months between new year and Easter are those in which most people are recruited in general, I hear. The time phase we are in at the current moment is known to be a bit stagnant.

Regards

[Rollerboy]

Just a couple of questions to you guys and gals in the pool...

Do you have to remain current with the flying whilst swimming, by that I mean current IR and have flown around 50hrs in the last year? I seem to remember that Flybe and BA have some sort of currency requirements, does this apply to hold-poolers?

I am sure if you have been in the pool for over a year now since your AQC that skills will be getting a little rusty. Will CTC complete a mini course before your TR begins OR will they expect you to complete another interview and sim check before moving onto a partner airline? If so, could these courses/check rides be pass/fail?

Also having just finished an AQC, with the prospect of waiting possibly a year wouldn't it be an idea to contact Flybe or other such airlines and show them your results you may get a shot there.

Just few thoughts would welcome your views.

Roller

[Dried ears]

Incidentally, reference my post number 289 from way, way, way back:

QED.

Still reckon you should get your money back.

Respect to those in the pool, hope it comes good soon. Best of British.

[Mintflavour]

Easyjet Buys GB Airways

This could go eitherway in doing us a favour.

In simple terms
1) GB pilots B*gger off, creating lots of positions (like BACON guys did when Flybe took them on):D
2) Consoladation, putting a further hold on recruitment, and we continue to tread water for much longer.:ugh:

Mint

[Boonanza]

This is an accelerated growth driven acquisition and GB have 6 aircraft on order (+options) at the moment... with plans for GB to be fully intgrated by winter next year, could be some positive news for us swimmers!

found this a good read;

http://www.easyjet.com/common/img/easyjet_gb_airways_acquisition.pdf

back to swimming/pmdg'ing :P


:ok: Boonie
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rFGYcnBFxlw

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

My understanding was that EZJ were not planning to recruit in a major way in 2008. People are just not moving on like they were and most of the major carriers (bar BA) are not in the market for pilots. The jobs market seems to be running out of steam and I can't see how the aquisition of GB can do anything to help in the short run. A period of consolidation is bound to happpen. Combined with economic storm clouds building, the picture is less than rosy. The GB pilots are going nowhere as they have nowhere to go to! If EZJ don't recruit then that will result in the WINGS cadets being placed in a holding pool just like us, making placement for the ATP pilots even more distant. In my view, the bubble is about to burst. Hope I'm wrong but......

Maybe the medium run (1 year away) outlook is brighter and the jobs market and economy will shake itself out.....but if Flybe or whoever come a knocking welcome them with open arms.

[bigjarv]

I've given up on CTC. Went to the BALPA Employment Oppertunities Conference and although I hate to be doom and gloom, the general message was that recruitment across the board was going to be very flat this year
(2008) in the UK but expect it to pick up the year after. Not good news as far as hold pool is concerned and think CTC are going to get a hammering on their reputation for bad judgement. May well be deserved. No longer can they say that "we are so reliable and trustworthy that even after 9/11 the longest one of our cadets waited was 9 months" (I was told this!). They had all our trust but it's fading. Great shame really as I though it was one of the only companies out there I respected for trying to change the game for the benefit of us pilot types. Have managed to find a job elsewhere and am going to take it. Not quite as good as the Easy scheme but new doors will open in a short while! The big wait is over! I know it's been said before and I dismissed it as the views of doom merchants but I really suggest having a look around for jobs if you intend to enter the industry any time soon particularly if you are at the back of the pool. Best of luck guys! Arm bands going on e-bay if anybody wants them and can someone get me a towel!!!

[Mintflavour]

Congrats Big J.
Out of interest how long have you been in the pool/which AQC were you on?
All the best of luck.

mint

[KindolFaret]

MAY07 AQC (i think it was the last one or... the second last AQC for ATPers)

And I trust CTC... probably I won't be doing my TR even in May 08 but... even if I have to wait more than one year... I'm proud and happy where I am.

Back of the pool...

Good Luck Mates!


(It would be a good idea to do a list again with the ones we are in the pool... ex. AQC month / number... etc. as we used to do months ago)

[bigjarv]

Thanks very much guys! Was on the December course so not too far from the front but I'm an impatient bugger!!!

I think I can see your mind ticking.... one more out the pool makes me one closer to the front!!!! Best of luck ya all!

[Fly_My_Pretties]

Long time reader, first time poster, long(ish) time CTC holding monkey. Any thoughts from the group regarding the recent holding pool movements? Seems we are finally getting some positive news.

[Troy McClure]

And to First Choice too. In spite of the merger. Good news indeed.

Rumours of something else in the pipeline too. Anyone know any more?

[Fly_My_Pretties]

Other than the Jet2 and mini-jet opportunities I've heard there are talks going on with Easyjet, although that does seem to contradict the fairly recent pool update.

I must admit I'm liking the look of the Jet2 opportunity, although I've only really looked at their website for info. Anybody else have any thoughts?

[Mintflavour]

Looks like Ive missed out on some info here. Have you all received an update email from CTC or something, and Ive been missed out on the mailing list again??

Mint

[Fly_My_Pretties]

Don't think you'll have missed anything Mint, unless your near the top of the pool.

Last week an E-mail from CTC was sent to the top swimmers in the pool saying 3 things:

1. The four chaps at the top of the list are off to First Choice (interviews I guess).
2. 5 chaps needed to interview for two Jet2 positions.
3. 1 very nice co-pilot position going with Business Jet Operator.

Putting my optimistic hat on for a second this all seems like good news and hopefully an indication of future movement.

[Mintflavour]

Cheers
Good to be kept in the picture, even though Im a longway back in the Queue.

mint

[pushapproved]

Finally good to hear some positive news!

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

1. The four chaps at the top of the list are off to First Choice (interviews I guess).


Starting in February for six month contracts and then.....?

2. 5 chaps needed to interview for two Jet2 positions.


2 to be taken on the Jet2, 20k cash up front "bond" (=SSTR).

But yes, things do seem to be moving a bit.

[eagle21]

Quote:
1. The four chaps at the top of the list are off to First Choice (interviews I guess).
Starting in February for six month contracts and then.....?

Couldn't agree anymore! Believe me I have first hand experience...
Good luck everyone, my advice is : take any job that is offered to you.

[mattd2k]

1) What is the surprise of it being a 6 month contract? I thought that was what we were going to get anyway with the option for the airline to keep us on afterwards, if the required standards were met! I'd certainly take it. After 6 months line experience you are certainly going to have sufficient experience to find another job easily enough.

2) If you have to stump 20k upfront is that not paying for your TR yourself and therefore not a bond? :confused:

Good to have some movement at least. :ok:

[londonmet]

Was the co-pilot job on a business jet for CTC's own new business jet venture?

[ReallyAnnoyed]

The 6 month contract is standard and has, to the best of my knowledge, always been used. It is up to the operator to decide whether or not they want to keep the pilot after the 6 months, but if they decide not to keep him, then the pilot will have a TR with several hundred hours on type with no bond and CTC will help with placement in another airline.

Some of the charters have used the guys for 6 months and then let them go as winter season approached. EasyJet has kept all of its CTC pilots after the 6 months and offered permanent contracts. In fact, a bunch of guys who flew for Thomas Cook under the CTC scheme just joined us in November this year.

So, be happy :) I went through the same scheme, but at a time where there was about a 1 week wait between finishing the AQC and starting the TR. I have only good things to say about CTC that provided me with an easy entry into the elusive first job with less than 200 hours.

[Fly_My_Pretties]

To be fair to CTC the 6 month contract was made pretty clear right from the beginning so its a bit late to be complaining about it now. In regards to the Jet2 scheme check their website for details; however it seems to be a fairly standard HSBC loan, 3 year contract and a bit deducted monthly from your salary after the bond is passed to Jet2. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is a common way for low hours pilots to get a big jet job and certainly something to be considered. Whether this is better/worse than the normal CTC 6 month contract is a matter of debate.

Happy to be corrected by those more intelligent than myself :)

[Troy McClure]

at a time where there was about a 1 week wait between finishing the AQC and starting the TR.

ReallyAnnoyed - sounds like you need to change your user name. Spare a thought for the rest of us who've waited up to 60 times longer.

Come on, let's get me moved up the list to be snapped up by Easyjet in the new year. I feel a surge in the industry coming on......

:ok:

[ReallyAnnoyed]

Troy McClure, I may remember you from such threads as... ;) My choice of username has nothing to do with CTC but with pprune, actually. The system asked me to register as it thought that I had viewed too many threads :rolleyes: So, as I could not be bothered to delete cookies I caved in and created a username instead of lurking in the darkness. That really annoyed me :p

Hang in there. You will get placed by CTC all of you :) And yes, they are right at the manor: After a year of flying airline you will all be whinging pilots :}

[Troy McClure]

Be right there with you soon buddy. ;)

[Fly_My_Pretties]

Thanks for the positive outlook Annoyed. I think the frustration from the holding pool is understandable under the circumstances, however as long as there is movement and guys are starting to get interviews there is light at the end of the (very long) tunnel. That makes me a happy bunny :).

On a related note would anybody who has successfully been through the holding pool recommend reading material or have any revision suggestions for the interview? Obvious question I know (ground school notes, Flying the Big Jets, specific airliner info etc...) but any advice gratefully received.

p.s and in relation to an earlier post, yes the business jet job is for the CTC venture.

[ajd1]

TOM/FCA pilots are being told no pilots joining the airline from CTC or anywhere else.

[pushapproved]

After the recent 'outburst' everyone has gone strangely quite again?!

[cortilla]

i'm wondering if the holdpool is suddenly looking decidedly empty at this moment in time.

[Fly_My_Pretties]

Not empty but certainly emptying.

In addition to the First Choice/Jet2 stuff already mentioned 10 swimmers will shortly be starting 737 type ratings for a 6 month contract with Easyjet. Combined with all the other opportunities that became available in the last couple of weeks that should mean a total of 17 swimmers leaving the pool.

All in all very good stuff. As the Guinness advert tells us, good things come to those who wait :)

[Troy McClure]

So Easy are still recruiting for the 73's - thought their plans were to go all Airbus. Let's hope they want a few more in the new year - I must be in the top 6 now if all that's been said is true.

[flan]

easyJet's website states that they are starting courses some time in early to mid 2008 for people already in the hold pool, who may have been waiting already for 12 months or more, and if current pilots on type apply now they may have to wait until probably 2009 for a start date.

My question is why would easy be taking non typre rated pilots with NO jet experiance, with such a delay already with typed guy's and girls in their own hold pool.

Do you think CTC may have agreed some type of deal with easy to get some people out of the CTC hold pool before the wheels come of this course?

flan

[ReallyAnnoyed]

Any airline prefers to have a mixture of experience, as it will reduce bottlenecks. If all pilots have the same number of hours they all need the same thing at the same time e.g. a command. A spread of age is also desireable.

Anyway, be happy to join easy although it is on the tractor ;) The fixed roster really IS nice! The money is not bad either after the 6 month initial period. Bad news is that you will get either LTN, BFS or NCL but you can apply later on for a type conversion if you prefer other bases without any pay cut. However, you will be bonded though.

[pushapproved]

Quote: "Bad news is that you will get either LTN, BFS or NCL"

When you've been in the pool long enough, none of the bases are bad, maybe less desirable than others!

[Fly_My_Pretties]

"Do you think CTC may have agreed some type of deal with easy to get some people out of the CTC hold pool before the wheels come of this course?"

My bold.
Do we have any evidence that this scheme has problems? My understanding is that delays have been caused by consolidation (First Choice/Mytravel, Flybe/BAConnect) either releasing pilots in to the traditional airline partners (i.e. BAConnect staff to Easy) or reducing the partners immediate requirements. This is unfortunate but hardly unknown within our industry and not CTC's fault.

I know its easy to be negative about the delays; I've been as frustrated as anyone else over the last twelve months. However I think we should look positively on the recent developments and remember that CTC makes money out of putting pilots in airlines, NOT by putting them through AQC courses. I'm off to do the Easyjet 737 rating soon and can't wait. In the end CTC has given me the opportunity as a low hours pilot to get in to a jet job and that's worth its weight in gold. It would of been nice if things had been quicker, and I certainly know guys who have given up on waiting and done other things, however thats the nature of the industry we've decided to join.

Good luck to all those starting the 737 ratings and hoping for many new opportunities for the rest of the guys in the pool. CTC has kept its promises to me so far, I see no reason why this will not continue for others in the future.

[cortilla]

yes there have been alot of frustrations from everyone in the last few months, but as FMP says, this can hardly be blamed on ctc. The industry has experienced alot of consolidation in the last year, and as we all know it is never recruitment needs that drive recruitment, but rather the finance side who purely look at cost vs benefits.

I believe a significant number of holdpoolers have been taken up in the last few weeks with partner airlines. Yes it was quite a while, but all good things come to those who wait. Also as FMP says it's the best way for a low houred person to get into a jet job without paying for a type rating.

[Superpilot]

So

When's the application page for CTC ATP opening up again? Now that there's supposedly 20 something people left swimming. :ok:

[test]

In response to Fly-my-pretties remark about CTC not making money from not placing pilots. In fact they charge for interviews, sim checks, and over the odds for an MCC course. Like all the training organization's the bank balance is very rosy making money from students wanting to live the dream!
They will all be doing deals with the airlines to get their pilots in as do Oxford, It is big business and I wouldn't be at all surprised of a few back handers going in the right direction's. Good luck to those in the pool as I am sure you will get jobs, but a lot of money is generated from those not getting through at any stage, just look at the volume of applicants. Sounds like a CTC email to me!

[cortilla]

excuse me, uhm feeling a bit embarrased but i seem to have lost my towel. I do apologise gents but am in particular need of it at the moment. i do believe i left it around the corner just under the springboard.

Yes yes, i'm out of the pool. Happy days

[Fly_My_Pretties]

Great news Cortilla, who are you off with?

And in reply to test no I am not a CTC spy trying to infiltrate the forums and encourage gullible pilots to spend money (although that sounds terribly glamerous :)). I'm just a long time swimmer who's happy to be doing a TR and wanted to put a positive post on the current situation. If you don't believe me test PM me, I'll give you my number and we can have a chat about what I'm up to at Nursling at the mo. Don't be shy.

And regarding your little rant about how training providers make money out of potential applicants I couldn't agree with you more. They are business's like any other and there to make a profit. My last post was simply indicating its in their best interests of CTC to place pilots in airlines, NOT that they don't make money out of the AQC course, interviews etc..... Seriously, like everyone else in this pool I've been through various training providers and I'm not gullible enough to think this is not the case.

Be happy chaps, things are happening. CTC spy out.

[Guzzler]

TUI will be taking on 4 CTC chaps for the Airbus next summer.

[mattd2k]

Before everyone gets all excited about 4 poistions at TUI, I think these are probably the 4 guys that have been offered a place with FCA earlier this month.

If I'm wrong, someone pass me a towel please so I can dry off! :ok:

Still good to hear news of movement though. :)

[KindolFaret]

4 guys out of the pool for Pacific Airlines (Jetstar). (¿Someone can confirm hoy many went to Jet2?)

They will need around 10 more before summer in Pacific.

EZY not likely to take any ATPers until end of 2008.

[Mintflavour]

I beleive the latest number is 3 gone to jet2.

Unfortunately Im not in a position to take the Pacific opportunity.

I really do hope the momentum doesn't stop here.

Any ideas on pool numbers. I think it could be about 13.

All the best

Mint

[Mintflavour]

Gator32
Vietnam, and started TR 2nd Jan.

Mint

[KindolFaret]

Pacific guys doing their TR right now. The airline makes everything for them, including visa, travel, etc.

Pacific is short to be rebranded as part of Jetstar. Pacific base right now is Ho Chi Mihn city.

[Big_Mach]

I don't know how new this news is but I was flying with a training captain yesterday who said there will be another two courses of cadets for the 737 at easy in the coming months. One's had to be put back slightly because they were too close together for line training etc.
So even with the Boeing being phased out, courses are still happening, which I guess means Airbus courses are in the pipe-line as well.

[Troy McClure]

There's an Easyjet 737 course starting on Monday 7th for a start. :):):)

[kula]

Anyone know the current state of the CTC holding pools?
In particular ...how many Wings cadets and how many ATP people in the pool?

cheers

[flightless_bird]

Anyone know the current state of the CTC holding pools?
In particular ...how many Wings cadets and how many ATP people in the pool?


The normal CTC thread generally has this information. Try here (http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/250640-ctc-wings-cadets-thread-part-2-a-162.html#post5009886).