Manchester - 3 [Archive]

MAN777

15th Aug 2006, 20:54

Regarding the MAN v Stansted passenger figures, I believe that its going to be short lived as soon as RYR starts to feel the pinch with rising fuel prices, the bargain basement passengers that currently artificially inflate the figures will vanish. I know MAN has LOCO carriers but it also has a much more stable portfolio of flights.

Why do I think this ? well its to do with my circle of friends who travel extensively, they all say that Ryanair is only an option when the fares are rock bottom, so if they all say that (about 20) presumably the same feeling is widespread.

Discuss !

MyData

18th Aug 2006, 11:25

Does anyone have real-world experience of current queue time at MAN for BD shuttles to LHR?

I'm due my bi-weekly trip on BD581 this Monday @ 0640. Up until two weeks ago I had this down to a fine art. On-line check in on Sunday, up and out of house by 0520, arrive, park up, terminal, lounge for a coffee, on to flight.

Now, I do expect to have to arrive a little earlier this time around, but at 0640 in the morning would I realistically have to expect to be there 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2 hrs early? If its a long wait I'll give it a miss and drive South. I know there will be the 'official' advice of arrive early, but I really don't fancy getting up at 3am for a flight when I could wait until 5 and drive instead.

AUTOGLIDE

18th Aug 2006, 16:58

Whether or not the STN boom is shortlived or not, that airport will still have had the benefit of having them along with the jobs they have brought. Hopefully it will continue thus. Although MAN isn't exactly quiet, growth seems a bit stagnant, particularly longhaul. MAN really needed a big LOCO, by which I mean Easyjet.
Also STN must be looking very profitable for BAA, 23,000,000 plus through 1 terminal smaller than MAN T2.

Vuelo

20th Aug 2006, 14:36

So is it true Manchester is to get t three times a week service to Bangkk this winter? Which airline? Thai?

MANFlyer

21st Aug 2006, 10:00

TG Chairman said in an interview earlier this year that they hoped to be serving MAN by or in 2007. They have been supposedly coimg for years (a la CX) so I'll believe it when I see it.

Having said that, he did also say they were trying to do it with a stop in India, which they couldn't sort out. He believes they will shortly have the right aircraft for the route so it they do start it will probably be a 2 class 772ER.

FFHKG

21st Aug 2006, 14:45

Interesting that TG are looking to route through India. CX were reported in the HKG press to be looking at the same routing for HKG/MAN, following their failure to gain traffic rights for Moscow/Manchester sector. Would guess that this may well happen as most Asian airlines are increasing their regional flights to the sub-continent.

AUTOGLIDE

21st Aug 2006, 16:15

Hopefully so. However, it's curious how airlines never let anything whatsoever block the way of getting into LHR, or expanding at LHR (i.e. ANZ 2nd daily, the 4th QANTAS etc) yet for MAN it's one excuse/reason/problem after another, year after year after year. If the constantly mentioned carriers really wanted MAN they'd be at MAN. I hope things pick up for the future, or will completely give up on the place.

Vuelo

21st Aug 2006, 17:07

I understand that flyGlobespan are to use and be based at Terminal 2 from this winter, which is strange as I would have thought T1 would have had more capacity for a longhaul arriving at 1945 hours.

That'll clog up the baggage and immigration with a DXB, DOH and CPT all within the hour!

angelwings2006

21st Aug 2006, 17:13

My Data-
Arrive about 0.5/1hr earlier, queues arnt too bad any more.
:ok:

Britannia

22nd Aug 2006, 10:25

Any ideas if the Luzair Tristar will still be there tommorow?

MyData

22nd Aug 2006, 11:00

angelwings thanks for the response.

I arrived at 0530 for the 0640 (usually get there on the dot a 0610). 15 mins to do the bag drop :eek: , 15 more mins in the queue through the 'BA' control in T3. Shoes, belt, etc. at the scanner - just like being in the good old USA. :bored:

Made it to the lounge with plenty to spare. Boarding began around 0610. Departed on time but with a low load factor for a Monday AM flight.

So, 30 mins extra, at 0530 would be prudent. I counted that from the point of arrival at the BMI bag drop area, to sitting in my seat I had made contact with 10 'officials'. Is this a record? :uhoh:

Back to LHR this PM for the return. That will be fun.

AUTOGLIDE

23rd Aug 2006, 18:27

I understand that flyGlobespan are to use and be based at Terminal 2 from this winter, which is strange as I would have thought T1 would have had more capacity for a longhaul arriving at 1945 hours.
That'll clog up the baggage and immigration with a DXB, DOH and CPT all within the hour!

Why? Supposed to be a modern international airport. Surely T2 can handle 3 flights in one hour.

jongeman

23rd Aug 2006, 20:11

Evening arrivals into T2 from DXB, DOH and CPT is just what T2 needs, especially in the winter. After the North American/Singapore morning arivals and departures, the place can seem a little surplus to requirements. We've all seen it on a wet Wednesday in February with just a KLM F100 and an Air France 319 parked up.

FlyZB

23rd Aug 2006, 20:42

Those of you that work in Termainl 1 and have been in today will have seen the chaos caused by the wet weather. The roof in the departures lounge, close to Alpha Shopping collapsed under the strain of the heavy rain and submerged a section of the airside shopping area under around a foot of water. The departures lounge was closed for 90 minutes and pax that had already proceeded through security were escorted down B Pier. The arrivals area also suffered a similar problem, with the baggage reclaim area and arrivals hall also submerged in water and all arriving passengers into Terminal 1 had to be bussed to either T2 or T3 and collect their luggage from there. The majority of airside retail and catering outlets remained closed throughout the rest of the afternoon and into the evening as the area was cleared up. Only Starbucks and Boots were reopened and pax had to access the far side of the departure lounge by using the small passageway that runs behind Burger King. A chaotic situation that left many flights delayed, yet the consequencies could have been alot worse. Maybe this will open the eyes of the Senior management and push them into spending money on this ageing terminal. The whole place is in need of some investment. Time after time i have seen buckets of water placed under leaking roofs after a downpour and yet nothing has been done. Not to mention the atrocious state of the carpets, seating area's and gates. Today has proved the extent of neglect on basic care and maintenance and it's about time something was done about it.

cleared for take off

24th Aug 2006, 01:34

Absolutley correct FlyZB the place is falling to bits. Even La Senza has a small pond outside it this afternoon. I know its a lingerie shop but brings a whole new meaning to water sports!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was looking ominous this afternoon when I spotted about 20 trays which they use to catch the 'drips' piled up on the ramp opposite Travelex in T1.

cessna l plate

24th Aug 2006, 06:58

As I am sure the MAN management would be only too quick to point out, the cash pile isn't a bottomless pit! Be aware that they were threatened with removal of aerodrome licence by the CAA recently. This has lead to a complete re-vamp of certain taxi-ways. Not only that, the Health & Safety are also dishing out some pain at the moment.

Not that I am leaping to the defence of MAN, but there needs to be priorities placed on the cash. A leaking roof is nothing next to a crumbling taxi-way, even if both are a result of under investment over the years. One causes a few problems, the other shuts the airfield. Which would you like?

Having said that, I read in my local paper the other week about how much Geoff Muirhead earns, something in the 4 grand a week region. Perhaps he would like to donate some of this cash pile to a new terminal roof fund. Like most major business these days, this is at a time of the rank and file being squeezed harder and harder.

I agree that MAN could do with a big orange loco. Problem is that EZY are well entrenched at LPL. It would be more hassle than it is worth for them to move. LPL have invested a lot of money into the airport infrastructure in recent years, most of it based on EZY and FR continuing operations there. I imagine that if EZY said they were moving up the M56 there would be an oversized carrot dangled to persuade them to stay.

MAN needs more good quality long haul traffic. I remember seeing Quantas in here as a kid, are there not enough pax using this service from MAN to justify them coming back? It strikes me that MAN sits back and waits for the business to come and knock on the door. Customers are the blood of any company, without them you have no company. Perhaps they need to be more pro-active in gaining new business. And if they already do that, then perhaps they need to do it with a more public face, so that the name becomes more noticed on the international stage !!!

lexxity

24th Aug 2006, 07:40

Maybe this will open the eyes of the Senior management and push them into spending money on this ageing terminal.

Oh that's so likely.:hmm: The terminals are a disgrace they are just downright dangerous when the roof leaks onto the nice shiny floors. I wonder how MAPLC will like it when someone tries to sue them for an injury caused by them slipping on a wet floor which has no "wet floor" sign on it? That'll look good for furtue business. Maybe MAPLC should spend some of the income from all the retail on repairing the roofs properly and not keep bodging it with layers of tar.

Momentary Lapse

24th Aug 2006, 11:04

MA re-roofed most of T1 in summer 2004 and 2005.

But it doesn't hide the fact that during most of the 1990s when Geoff Muirhead was directly responsible as Chief Executive, most of the estate was under-invested in for maintenance. The T1 roof, and the aprons and taxiways are just the visible consequences of that, but you can also add the as-yet unseen disasters that are the T1 multi storey car park, T1 Arrivals landside, T1 Tower Block (aircon and asbestos), Pier B (asbestos), Olympic House (sick building syndrome and leaking cladding), Commonwealth House (leaking cladding), 4M (no tenants :O :eek: ) and more.

MA is behaving like a typical corporation - fat cat payrises for those in the ivory tower, decades of under-investment, excessive profits going straight back to the shareholders (local councils who spend it on lefty non-jobs), continual erosion of workers' pay and rights, and reductions in union power. The consequences are now coming home to roost - dangerous facilities, industrial unrest, difficulty recruiting and keeping staff, and worst of all the customers are voting with their feet, leaving the company in serious trouble. Don't forget that MA mortgaged both EMA and MAN to the hilt to buy EMA and BOH and that debt still needs paying back.

It is time for the Board and Chairman to take a long look at its senior management team and make some hard decisions, perhaps a bit harder than just getting rid of Mr Spooner and shuffling the deckchairs a bit.

My sympathies go to MF, DQ and all the others who had to put right another of GM's messes by getting T1 up and running again. As ever, it's the true workers who have to put right the poor judgement of management.

lexxity

24th Aug 2006, 14:01

The reroofing was just putting tar down on top of exisiting material, you could see it quite clearly from our offices. Cheapest option has resulted in an enormous cost now. Bot good practice.

Momentary Lapse

25th Aug 2006, 14:28

Yes Lex, the job was rolling down new felting and tar like one would put on a domestic flat roof. The problem is probably that due to leaks for so many years before that, the structure underneath was getting damaged and weakened.

Motto to Mr Muirhead: You can't polish a turd. The clever bit is to stop it becoming a turd in the first place.

I can imagine one or two people involved in that project hunting for phone directories to stuff down the back of their pants.... MA loves nothing more than a good witch-hunt and blame-allocation process.

daynehold

25th Aug 2006, 17:38

Blue sky thinking! Why do BA (& BD) shuttle passengers to LHR to connect with long haul flights? Heathrow is congested & other carriers are fighting for slots there. So why not shuttle the opposite way and develop international routes from Man? Include Stanstead in this idea (huge N.E. London and East Anglia catchment area) avoiding grief of crossing London by road or train. I recognise that Manchester's own catchment area isn't sufficient to attract many long haul operations at present but provide it as an attractive alternative and actively market connections to Southampton, the south west of England, Scotland & Ireland as well as those insular folk south of Watford. The CAA, BAA & Government are sadly obsessed with London :rolleyes: .

Momentary Lapse

25th Aug 2006, 18:32

My view, fwiw:

Most pax to/from LHR actually want to go to London or the surrounding area. They are also more likely to sit at the front, in the seats which actually make the money for the airlines.

MAN has a pretty good long haul network for a regional airport, but the demand is more for economy than business/first class, and the airlines don't make much from that.

In a nutshell, any longhaul destination to the UK will yield more £ to/from LHR than MAN because more pax come from, or want to be, in London in the first place, and they're more likely to buy a premium priced seat.

Exceptions are to/from Pakistan, due to the large immigrant communities in MAN's catchment area, and Emirates et al which seem to do quite well ex-MAN.

Over to the airline boys n girls for a better answer than this one. :ok:

lexxity

25th Aug 2006, 19:41

Daynehold the suttles exist because of the exisiting routes ex:LHR, i.e. Air New Zealand, so good business sense to connect to them.

There is quite a good LH market from MAN as evidenced by AA/BD/SQ/EK, etc. I know the demand for ORD from MAN is strong and bmi's Las Vegas service does really well. I do think there is enough demand for a direct LAX or SFO, that would be a brilliant point to point and also great for transferring pacific pax.

IB4138

26th Aug 2006, 06:43

Every other airport in the UK has got it's arrivals and departures info on their websites back to normal except Manchester, which is still using a pathetic XL spread sheet,with details in alphabetical order for destinations and not detailing all flights.

Muppets! :mad:

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

26th Aug 2006, 07:26

It`s been back to normal for several days now

G-I-B

IB4138

26th Aug 2006, 07:40

Try it NOW then!

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

26th Aug 2006, 07:58

no problem direct to arrivals and departures

G-I-B

Playamar2

26th Aug 2006, 08:04

IB4138
Tried 10mins after your posting and its working fine. Like G-I-B says it has been up and running for a few days now, although it was out of action for a good while. Took longer to fix that most other airports but thats ManAirport for you nowadays (not much works as it should, or as efficently).

Playamar

IB4138

26th Aug 2006, 09:20

Well how come at 0730 CET this morning, I got the spread sheet, with flights for the 26th August on then ?

It appears to be hit and miss.

AeroMANC

26th Aug 2006, 09:24

IB4183/Playamar2,

I agree it's not good MAN were unable to provide a live flight information service via the web at a critical time. However, in the scheme of things, it seems they have done a good job of managing the crisis in an overall context. Let's be fair.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/220/220595_airport_praised_for_reaction_to_terror_crisis.html

AeroMANC.
:ok:

1DC

26th Aug 2006, 09:47

Longhaul through Heathrow.
I would rather fly from MAN any time but now that malaysian have left the fold i find i can get business fares to the far east and oz cheaper from LON than MAN.I travel to the airport by hire car so the cost of getting to the airport is about the same although even the land journey to MAN is much less hassle than LHR or LGW.However as i pick up my own costs the price decides and lower cost deals with the decent airlines don't seem to include MAN.. .

Mr A Tis

26th Aug 2006, 14:15

1DC makes a valid observation. People always go on about the lack of premium pax ex MAN. A random search for a J class ticket MAN-HGK for Sept, best price was AFR at £1754, & DLH @ £2131. However, sames dates ex LHR will give you a J class seat with DLH for only £1545 - some 600 quid less than from MAN.It's not surprising then that potential premium pax vote with their wallets & trundle down to an already over congested airport.:confused:

TURIN

26th Aug 2006, 20:37

Who flies MAN-HKG direct then? Perhaps that extra £600 is for the return MAN-LON-MAN bit!:ugh:

Mr A Tis

26th Aug 2006, 21:42

Nobody flies direct MAN-HKG. The AFR fare is via CDG & the HKG via FRA.
Well done at completely missing the point of the post !!!!!:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

cessna l plate

27th Aug 2006, 14:12

I said that MAN needs more decent LH routes. Having looked at the posts since, I am mindful that there is a good reason for MAN not getting them, and it is two fold.

First once is demographic. Sadly Manchester cannot compete, certainly on the bus & 1st market, as the City of Manchester is not regarded as one of the worlds great financial hubs. To the sort of people that fly from LHR in business / First Class, time is literaly money, and as they are based in "the square mile" they aren't going to travel 200 miles North to catch a plane. This just cannot be helped really, unless MAN make further cuts to landing fees that the airlines pass onto the PAX, not very likely though on both counts!

However, there is a long haul market there, it just needs finding. Sadly, whenever you look at a TV about LH flying it always ex LHR, even the "airport" programme is based there. Perhaps MAN should be doing a little more active marketing, certainly more than letting the beeb film a travel show there, total exposure for MAN, 7 minutes per 30 min show, not enough! As I said earlier, within MAN all you hear is how good the place is, and what it can offer. I never hear it away from MAN though. Go 20 mile south and no-one knows the destinations served. Manchester need to make a more public face of themselves, that will then make customers realise that there is a choice north of Watford. We all work in a customer led market, if the customer wants to fly to Sydney direct from MAN, and enough of them say so, then some airline will put the route on. The same goes for anywhere in the world really.

What we have here is a great regional airport, that has suffered from under investment for a number of years, but that is now being put right slowly, and eventually will become good. If they attracted more business, then they would have more money for infrastructure, and so the cycle continues. Manchester never, ever will be a major threat to LHR, but it can carve out it's own niche and become the airport of choice for all, away from LHR, even beating LGW, now that would work!

Momentary Lapse

27th Aug 2006, 18:09

MAN may have a good route network, and good ground access (M56, train, bus and maybe Metrolink one day if common sense prevails) but the airport process bit itself is very hard to use (getting the right terminal, finding your car park and a space in it, navigating the endless level changes, corners, confusing signage/retail messages, broken travelators, lengthy baggage waits, over-obvious Immigration and Customs, congested arrivals, broken/dirty toilets, expensive coffee served at dirty tables etc etc).

Other airports e.g. LPL, EMA, Finningley etc. have rapidly increasing networks and are a joy to use, being simple, level and easy.

Airports today are like the car industry in the 70s and 80s: MAN is the British Leyland of airports, whereas LPL, EMA etc are the Japanese/Malaysian manufacturers. Complacency/complication/unreliability/fat cattery versus efficiency/simplicity/customer focus etc.

Perhaps EMA should have bought MAN and not the other way around. Oh how I feel sorry for the EMA staff who got lumbered with the dead hand of Manchester Airport Group.

TURIN

27th Aug 2006, 21:51

Nobody flies direct MAN-HKG. The AFR fare is via CDG & the HKG via FRA.
Well done at completely missing the point of the post !!!!!:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Perhaps if you had made it clear that your fare was MAN-CDG-AFR or MAN-FRA-HKG ..........:rolleyes:

Comparing MAN LH flights with LHR LH flights is one thing but not when you pick a route that has no comparison.

How does LHR-CDG-AFR compare?

Try MAN-BOS or MAN-ORD compared to LHR-BOS or LHR-ORD.:bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored:

bar none

27th Aug 2006, 22:24

where is afr

MichaelDoyle

28th Aug 2006, 10:37

Air France via Charles de Gaulle

agent x

28th Aug 2006, 13:35

AFR = Afore, a place in Papua New Guinea in the South West Pacific

Ax

IB4138

30th Aug 2006, 08:08

Back to "emergency" arrivals and departures spread sheet with limited info again on the web site this morning! That is, if you try direct access for all flight info.:rolleyes: If you faff about and put a flight number in, get that info, then you can access the full info.

What a way to run a railway!

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

30th Aug 2006, 08:21

OK at 09.20, just a little slow to load

G-I-B

FlyZB

30th Aug 2006, 19:38

Really don't see what diffference it makes. This web page is there mainly for people who are meeting relatives etc to check the arrival time of in coming flights. This format is just a little less attractive on the eye. It still updates every 5 minutes or so and still gives exactly the same info as the real time version does. In fact in many ways it's easier, especially for people that don't use the site much and therefore aren't aware of which airline uses which terminal. The flight numbers are displayed clearly by destination in alphabetical order. Idiot proof! Sure, it's not as high tech as the normal version but who cares! Does the job doesn't it!

AUTOGLIDE

31st Aug 2006, 06:46

NO. that sheet is second rate, mickey mouse rubbish. It's symptomatic of the whole airport and it's culture.Time MAN raised it's game, in may areas. I never thought I'd say this a few years back, but, LHR wipes it bottom all over MAN now as a place to fly from in respect of organisation, facilities etc. Sad really.

Mr A Tis

4th Sep 2006, 18:34

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

4th Sep 2006, 20:30

Bit chilly in Hamburg in the winter

G-I-B

Charlie Roy

6th Sep 2006, 10:46

New VLM route from the 30th of October Antwerp - Manchester twice daily :ok:

spannersatcx

6th Sep 2006, 14:49

Virgin going from 10 back to 7 flights a week wef now.:eek:

initial

6th Sep 2006, 18:24

The Arrivals / Departure board problems may only be a mnor inconvenience but there are so many minor problems at Manchester that could easily be put right. These can be the difference between people thinking 'great airport' or thinking 'never again'.

The following small things could make a difference to passengers ratings of the airport.

-24 hour information desks - during the summer flights land 24 hours a day so why do the information desks close at 23.00?? Nightime is when passengers face the most difficulties with onward travel.

-A complete review of signage for both car drivers and pedestrians. Remove unnecessary signs. There is still a sign on Outwood La saying 'New roundabout ahead' for the roundabout by Olympic House, that has been their at least 20 years. Replacing the Purple/pink colour scheme is a must!

-Sort out T1 arrivals, are the refurbishments finished?? werent they supposed to be tarting up the arrivals hall, or have they run out of money? Are the tacky fruit machines that used to be in the arcade now a permanent fixture? Are the temporary railings outside to stop trolleys running into the windows now permanent? Its a mess! Do the management not see this?

On a more positive note Jet2 have increased Ibiza to daily next summer

Momentary Lapse

6th Sep 2006, 19:23

To be fair to the people on the ground (Customer Service Director downwards) they recognise all the problems you list and would probably agree with most of them.

The problem is the usual ivory tower one. The blue sky thinkers at the top won't release the money or people to make it happen.

StoneyBridge Radar

7th Sep 2006, 14:16

From the end of October the 6 x week direct Hamburg is chopped to 3, including the very popular well supported Fri / Mon stag week-end flights.
Decent connections via STN to other destinations also cut back.
AB just don't seem committed to Manchester, at least HLX offer a more consistant timetable year round.
Your comment seems to directly against what they have proudly announced today:
From e-tid, fair use excerpt:
"Air Berlin said its August passenger numbers grew by 12.9% year-on-year to 1,607,834, but load factor declined from 86% to 84.5%. In Germany, the airports seeing the strongest growth were Frankfurt (+35.7%) and Nuremberg (+25.4%), while its best international performers were Stansted (+90.9%), Zurich (+53.1%) and Manchester (+47.7%)."

Mr A Tis

7th Sep 2006, 21:47

Well, I think that makes my point very well Stoneybridge.
Despite Manchester being one of their best international performers, they intend to CUT direct flights (again) from MAN & reduce the number of available STN connection flights. Does that make sense?:ugh:

StoneyBridge Radar

8th Sep 2006, 12:12

Yes, it makes perfect sense.

They have declared MAN as one of their most profitable international points, and intend to consolidate their position by ditching what must be, from their perspective, services where there isn't the revenue.

This doesn't close the door on future expansion.

Seems like sound business ethics to me !

MANFlyer

11th Sep 2006, 16:17

How ironic that in the lead up to the cessation their 744's appearing at MAN, SQ have sent one in a few additional times in the last couple of weeks as a 772ER is in for maintenance.

initial

12th Sep 2006, 10:53

A year ago Flybe announced Manchester would be 'a new low cost base', and put on sale flights to Exeter and Belfast. In a press release it stated that it would be launching six new routes over two years from Manchester. Since then the only new route has been Norwich, and there seems to be no new routes this winter. Does that mean they intend to start five new routes next summer? If so has anyone any ideas what they will be??

doublesix

12th Sep 2006, 11:31

Having flown through Manchester numerous times over the last 25 years I have just experienced the worst trip ever. Monday 4th September, check in at T2 for the Excel airways flight to Dalaman at 10.30am. Gates 212-216 in use. Downstairs to mingle with arrivals passengers whilst queuing for 1hr 30mins to check in. Clear check in, straight to gate 30 and straight on to bus to plane, B747-300, Air Atlanta. No time to go to duty free. Arrive Dalaman and out of airport with no hassle in 40 mins.
Monday 11th September, check in for return flight. No hassle, bags weighed and security checks done within 40 mins. Arrive Manchester and join long queue to clear passport control in T2. Our queue of 300 to 400 passengers inter mingles with another queue from another aircraft. Terminal air con is off so the place is like a steam room with very irate passengers. Clear passport control in just over an hour. Now I know times have changed and security checks are very necessary, but 3 people checking passports for 500+ passengers at 10pm? I dread to think what it would have been like if it had been a busy time of day. And Manchester wants more flights!! :*

Mr A Tis

12th Sep 2006, 14:52

Yup same in T1. queued 1 hour to check in & then 1 hour for security last week. Meaning out of security straight on board aircraft. So no time whatsoever to use airside shops. That being the case, why don't they just close them & make the security area bigger & better ?.
In other words make an efficient hassle free airport, rather than a shopping centre you can't use. I am also cancelling my contract to use the executive lounges as it is no longer possible to use them due time constraints. Don't say arrive earlier, because I arrived before the check in even opened.
The return from Hamburg = 10 minute check in queue & ZERO minute queue for security.

IB4138

12th Sep 2006, 19:00

I've also posted this comment in SLF, having had the misfortune to transit Manchester today;

More stupidity from security at Manchester today.

The bars in Terminal 1 are short of draught beer supplies, infact the Voyageurs bar only has draught Grolsch available........the reason:

Security are refusing them deliveries of barrels, until they have all been tasted.....I kid ye not!!!!

The loonatics really have taken over the asylum!!!:mad:

Mr A Tis

12th Sep 2006, 19:48

hmmmm, I see what you mean,as the barrells are not going on board any aircraft, the point is ???
Liverpool looks like being a better less hassle bet these days.
I expect Aug/sept pax numbers will be down. I for one won't be spending 2-3 hours messing around for a 45 minute flight.

Johnny F@rt Pants

12th Sep 2006, 21:06

[QUOTE=IB4138;2845186]
Security are refusing them deliveries of barrels, until they have all been tasted.....I kid ye not!!!!
QUOTE]

I wonder if they need a volunteer:}

Momentary Lapse

12th Sep 2006, 21:47

Most of the draught beer at MAN tastes like it ought to be blown up anyway. When I'm in the bar (only on payday obviously, at those prices) I always drink bottled beer.

Most of the "cellars" are so far from the pumps that the beer has gone off long before it hits the glass.

leedsgirl

13th Sep 2006, 09:01

Passenger numbers at Manchester Airport fell by over 60,000 last month after, the terror alert caused a string of flights to be cancelled.

The airport handled 62,000 fewer passengers in August compared with the same month last year - down from 2.53m to 2.47m, a drop of 2.4 percent. Charter traffic slid 6 percent, which was anticipated.

The overall decline was put down to slower-than-forecast growth on domestic and some scheduled international routes. It followed the cancellation of 26 flights during the terrorist alert in the second week of the month, mostly on routes to London but also on services to European cities such as Amsterdam, Luxembourg and Hanover.

A spokesman said the underlying outlook still showed growth of around 1.5 percent for the year as a whole, albeit slightly down on initial forecasts.

Adola69

14th Sep 2006, 00:22

:ugh:
Oh dear, down on pax, down on spending,down on maintenence,down on shop revenue,down on spending on infrastructure. Up on queues, up on litter, up on smelly toilets, up on airlines shelving services!! One wonders why?
Will Chief Exec suffer?---- Naw! Pity that, for it's time for a change.
How about the Local Councils putting money INTO the infrastruture of the Airport, instead of ALWAYS taking a cut? :D :ok:
One good thing though, beautiful Fauna and Flora growing on the ramp up to T1. It would soon be a butterfly hunters paradise if winter weren't around the corner. Third rate or what?
:eek:

spud

14th Sep 2006, 07:25

SLF'ing into Manch tonight. Can't wait !
The only airport that puts the bags into a holding pattern for half an hour before vectoring them to the carousels.

TG345

17th Sep 2006, 07:38

And hopefully without politicising matters too much: since when could a Council (or group thereof) run anything well???

rufus.t.firefly

17th Sep 2006, 10:39

lexxity

17th Sep 2006, 14:55

Rufus I think a little letter to MAPLC and one to bmibaby maybe in order. One to the airport to complain about the lack of actual stands, the other to complain about baggage handling.

Shed-on-a-Pole

17th Sep 2006, 20:53

At last - after a very long wait - some great news for MAN (which appears to have escaped this thread so far). THOMSONFLY has announced that it will base two additional Boeing 737's at MAN from Summer 2007 as part of a programme which will massively enhance the company's scheduled presence at the airport. Eleven new scheduled routes have been announced for Summer including SZG which actually launches this Winter alongside RAK. The other ten destinations are VCE (dropped by Jet2 and BA for Summer 06 leaving no competing service), NAP (dropped by Monarch in 06), DBV (dropped by GB Airways), FAO, TFS, LPA, ACE, CFU, PFO and MIN. Thomsonfly already offer scheduled services ex-MAN to other mainstream Spanish gateways. The company expects to be MAN's largest carrier following the introduction of the new services. Key details of this news are reported in the new edition of 'Travel Trade Gazette'.

On a rather smaller scale, new carrier FlyGibraltar intends to serve GIB-MAN amongst a number of new routes ex-GIB using B733's believed to be sourced from Astraeus.

Rapid

17th Sep 2006, 22:07

Rufus I think a little letter to MAPLC and one to bmibaby maybe in order. One to the airport to complain about the lack of actual stands, the other to complain about baggage handling.

As an ex baggage handler at MAN i can safley say i was worked to the bone for 5 pound crap an hr....The graft is hard,,,and the lads do it....but as long as ground service companys are so tight, in not apointing people who care, passengers will always suffer in picking up their luggage at the carosel, i loved my job but was made to feel so undermined it was untrue!!

lexxity

18th Sep 2006, 08:47

Rapid I can believe it, but if enough passengers complain it might get more staff hired. Sure as heck the hndling agencies aren't going to do it off their own back. If people don't complain, nothing is ever going to get done.

Mr A Tis

18th Sep 2006, 09:31

Wouldn't bother wasting a stamp writing to MA Plc. Still waiting for a reply to a letter I sent in December 2004 !:eek: after a particularly very bad MAN experience:sad:
It is very sad to see the infrastructure crumbling around the place. Poor reliability walkways/lifts, inadequate security areas, inadequate baggage system, inadequate signage, inadequate queue management.
Used to be my favourite airport, now only Heathrow & Newquay rank as worse in my book.

Momentary Lapse

18th Sep 2006, 10:14

It is very sad to hear of people's poor pay and conditions. The simple economics are:

Once upon a time when baggage and catering handling was in-house, due to the strength of the unions the staff had good terms and conditions. Perhaps due to the unions over-exerting their power, the company set out to break them and introduced multiple ground handlers.

While these new companies claimed to compete on quality, the airlines were mainly interested in price, so the handlers competed on price alone, and the best ways to cut costs so they can cut their prices are to reduce wages and to run old equipment.

With the EU Ground Handling Directive allowing unlimited handling companies on site, there are more and more sub-contractors with older and older equipment and lower and lower wages. Result: clutter on the apron and under-staffing.

At the same time, the local jobs market has picked up (Wythenshawe call centres, Trafford Centre etc) so there isn't the pool of unemployed people any more for employers to fish in.

Multiply this scenario across car parking, retail, cleaners, check-in staff, catering loading, security etc. and you get employee dissatisfaction, short-staffing, regular staff turnover (losing skills and experience), which leads to poor customer service and now a reduction in passenger numbers for the first time ever in MA's history barring the period after the Gulf War in 1991, and the year or so after 9/11.

The only organisation that makes any money out of Manchester Airport is MA PLC. Any profit the service providers make out of being at the airport goes back to MA in concession fees, extortionate rents, expensive staff car park permits etc.

MA is now talking about limiting the number of ground handlers at MA by running a license system. So now the handlers will have to pay even more to operate there.

My view is that MA should reduce its charges/rents/concession fees to allow service providers to pay a decent wage to retain their staff at least for the full season, and to treat them well. MA would still make a profit. Customer service would improve and passenger numbers might go up again. I know people have mooted this in the past to MA management but of course they know best, so they ignored the idea. Do they still know best? Well, with leftie pie-eating councillors at the top of the tree, the GCX and chairman are laughing because no-one above them is capable of understanding how bad they really are at running a competitive business in a global marketplace in the 21st century.

initial

18th Sep 2006, 11:26

Published today on bmi website

'bmi regional, Manchester's most punctual scheduled airline will be increasing the number of flights to its Scottish destinations this autumn.

From 29 October, bmi regional services between Manchester and Aberdeen will be boosted from four to six flights daily, introducing a new early morning and afternoon flight. Meanwhile, services between Manchester and Glasgow will be increased from four to five every weekday with the introduction of a new lunchtime flight.

The service improvements are in direct response to an increasing demand in business related traffic. The announcement today also follows the July announcement that bmi regional services between Manchester and Edinburgh were being increased from five to six per day, from September.

bmi regional managing director, Stewart Adams said:
“Our regional network continues to go from strength to strength. Not only are we the most punctual scheduled airline flying from Manchester, we are also the only regional airline to offer an all jet aircraft service. None of our competitors can match us in terms of flight frequencies to Scotland and the level of in-flight service offered.”

All bmi regional flights offer the speed and comfort of an all-jet aircraft service, a separate business and economy class seating on board and continues to offer complimentary in-flight refreshments. The airline is also renowned for excellent in-flight service and frequent flyer benefits. Convenient schedules across domestic and international routes from key regional airports allow connections to the wider bmi network and onwards across the globe with Star Alliance partners.

Business lounge facilities and range of check-in options on the ground, including online or self-service check-in ensure a speedy transition through the airport.

Speed on the ground is matched by speed in the air. bmi regional is also recognised as the best airline for punctuality in Manchester and in the UK overall according to published CAA statistics'

crewboi83

18th Sep 2006, 11:41

What is happening at Manchester. Flew in from Eire about a week ago.
Flew out from Terminal 3, returned and parked on remote stand 70 something !! Parked next to a Kuwaiti A300 near as damn it in the long stay car park of TERMINAL 2 !! Actually remarked to the crew that if We parked a further 50 yards I could get in the car park !
Following a lengthy bus ride around the apron back to Terminal 3 We then arrived at the baggage carousel in Terminal 3 !!.

I totally understand where you coming from about the remote stand thing, last month I had a flight where we arrived 20mins early at 2330, however we had to wait till 0015 for the first bus to arrive to take our very P:mad: :mad: :mad: d off pax to the terminal. it didnt help that the coaches also missed us out and seen to the Air Class 737 that pulled up beside us, 40 mins after us! we almost had a riot on our hands it was a complete joke! we had many pax saying to us "your airline has just gone down in our estimations, we wont b coming back" to which i tried my best to politly point out my airline dont operate the coaches it is MAN airport.
So as much as I understand what ur saying i dont agree with your comments to the crew about how close you are to the car park, trust me we are aware of it!!! our staff car park is just on the other side of the fence aswell :}
It does irritate the hell out of me when we are shoved on remote stands when the whole bloody terminal is free; if MAN airport are going to put us on remote stands in Wythenshawe then can we at least have a bus? and within the first few minutes of arriving would be nice

roverman

18th Sep 2006, 21:14

Momentary Lapse - much of what you say is right, however I can tell you that back in 1991 MAplc actually opposed the introduction of multiple handling agents rather than instigate it. It was the Monopolies & Mergers Committee which forced this following representations to the Thatcher/Major government. MA made a case for retaining a monoploy due to fears of ramp congestion caused by duplication of equipment - and look what happened!

Moving on from MLs points to the general debate now: I just don't see how the present economics within the industry are sustainable. The low-cost culture generates so little revenue for airports - how on earth are they to invest in infrastructure? Terminals are one thing - you can put up a shed and make pax carry their own bags, but the airfield is different. The CAA has no 'low cost' requirements - you can't have a cardboard runway and LEGO Fire trucks - airfield infrastructure requires multi-millions to build and more millions to maintain whether it's for easyjet or Lufthansa, the licensing requirements are the same. This money has to come from somewhere. LPL and BLK are alright at the moment because these airfields were underutilised, but wait till their airfields are worn out and need re-building like MAN. Will the business case stack up to re-invest?

lplsprog

19th Sep 2006, 09:24

LPL is not alright at the moment or they wouldn't be embarking on a major reconstruction of the runway in October. This has been required for the last two years so they can handle 4 engined aircraft again (B747, A340etc) as the outer edge of the runway was breaking up. True money plays a big part in timing of the maintenance but MAplc should have thought of that before they embarked on a 2nd runway they didn't need, after all Gatwick manages quite well with 1 runway and more passengers. Perhaps the management should be changed!:E

daz211

19th Sep 2006, 09:33

ONE RUNWAY

Yes and so does Stansted at the moment, "just".

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

19th Sep 2006, 19:55

The reason I understand is due to the mix of traffic i:e EMB145 then B747 or reverse which Gatwick or Stansted do not get to the same extreme as Manchester

Stansted has a traffic pattern which is longer than Manchester with the first rush of departures at 05.00 and not finishing until around midnight
and Gatwick has more aicraft at a constant size

G-I-B

PTH needs tarmac

20th Sep 2006, 09:44

Six new routes by Jet2 from the first part of the summer 2007

Barcelona
Berlin
Toulouse
Warsaw
Venice
Paris CDG

FlyZB

20th Sep 2006, 11:31

Bravo Jet2! After baby snubbed MAN yesterday in favour of expansion in BHX, it's good to see that at least one of our LCC's are commited to the cause. And with TOM also announcing 11 new routes, it has been a good week for MAN. I think LS and TOM will lead the way now in terms of future commitment to the airport, with ZB up there as well no doubt. Now then, how about this long-haul expansion we've long been promised...

Mr A Tis

20th Sep 2006, 13:49

Yes, good news from Jet2. Welcome competition for Monarch on the BCN, where we once had 3 operators (ZB,IB & WW), interesting to see they have also picked another ex baby route Paris CDG & a BMI Regional route -Toulouse.
Still waiting for someone to pick-up the Lisbon route, which we lost after many years of service by the excellent Portugalia. Maybe this is one for ZB, as they do this route from LGW.

Momentary Lapse

20th Sep 2006, 18:12

you can't have a cardboard runway
Manchester's got one: Runway 2 is falling to bits already at the starter end cos it's built from talcum powder and meringue nests. The bit that needs rebuilding is the bit where all the taxiways cross each other :eek: on the way to the threshold. Pity they didn't pay cardboard prices for it though...

Thanks for the comments re MA resisting multiple handlers. I bow to your knowledge. I do remember that when the handlers were jostling for the original 3 or 4 handler contracts, some of MA's Board members (who'd never been out of Gtr Manchester before because their whippets would miss them and they'd have no-one else to run their pie shops) went out to exotic places at the expense of one of the prospective handlers, who then went on to mysteriously win one of the contracts despite having no experience of working at MAN. And several Board members were also given genuine Rolex watches. At that time, MA should have implemented equipment licensing to limit apron congestion.

MA doesn't need a second runway for more movements, because it hasn't got enough space for more apron, taxiway or terminals to serve it properly. What they need is bigger a/c per movement (like LGW) and a better spread across the day's peaks and troughs. Then one runway would be sufficient, like LGW.

initial

22nd Sep 2006, 12:10

From Jet 2 press release

'The low cost revolution at Manchester has only just started, today marks the beginning of the end for high fares to European cities and Jet2 is leading the way - there are many more destinations to come, so keep visiting Jet2!'

Sounds promising! Surely Jet2 has more scheduled destinations than any other airline now at MAN? 23 routes compared to BACONS 17

spud

22nd Sep 2006, 19:04

Jet2 have been my carrier of choice on the AGP-MAN route for a while but I'm sorry to see that they've ditched the afternoon MAN-AGP for the winter. They won't be seeing me for a bit. :bored:

FlyZB

22nd Sep 2006, 20:10

Jet2 will continue with a morning departure on the MAN - AGP route throughout Summer 2007 too. Flights depart daily at 06.45

spud

22nd Sep 2006, 21:56

06:45 is nob all good to me I'm afraid, nor is the ZB winter schedule. Having said that, I went off ZB some time ago. Being told that charging for scoff was because of customer demand, the endless p.a.s telling us what not to do next flight and if I hear that the rip off exchange rate is based on the bank buying rate with no added commission one more time - I'll scream. Seat pitch seems to have shrunk too, doubt I'm still growing at my age.
Back to ID90s for a couple of months. Never know, I might get to like it. ;)

jongeman

22nd Sep 2006, 23:15

I'll agree with that spud.....ZB had to get to the level of WW and LS to compete effectively, without worrying too much about the people who are prepared to pay for just a little bit of 'service'.

There's no way LS could continue an afternoon service through winter. AGP demand is there all year round, but it tails off between November and March especially.

Mr A Tis

22nd Sep 2006, 23:40

I agree with spud re the very annoying Monarch PAs, constant can't do this, that or the other, buy this, buy that & then the constant scratch cards sales PAs, it just goes on and on and on and on, far worse than anyone else. Give us a break Monarch, or some peace & quiet during our flight.

Shed-on-a-Pole

22nd Sep 2006, 23:54

Momentary Lapse -

I've been off your case for quite a while to give you a chance to reform, but your constant moaning and sniping about all things Manchester has once again become just too tiresome to ignore. Do you ever have a good word to say for the place or the people who strive to make it the success that it is? Yes, 12th busiest in Europe and over 22.5 million passengers per year does constitute success. The place isn't perfect - we all know that, but it compares very well with the many other airports which I visit. Perhaps MAplc upset you in some way ... did they sack you or pass you over for promotion? Whatever it is, you have the right to post only negative comments if you wish, but if you post incorrect material I will challenge you.

So Manchester doesn't need a second runway, eh? Please tell us then exactly how Manchester should accommodate upto 800 daily movements on one runway (demand as per this Summer), many of which require peak morning and peak evening slots to conform with the business day? The answer is that the need for Manchester's second runway was proven beyond doubt a long time ago, and is answered again every weekday. Go and look. Your sneering remarks serve only to sap the last of your credibility. And what's all this whippets and pies nonsense in your most recent contribution? It sounds like a form of racist stereotyping to me.

Sometimes, if you have nothing good to say it is better to say nothing.

Meanwhile, after a fortnight of good news for MAN courtesy of Thomsonfly, Jet2.com, VLM and BMI Regional here's another gem. According to 'Travel Trade Gazette' [22 Sept edition], Flyglobespan is to operate a daily MAN - Toronto (Hamilton) service from May 2007 using 183-seat B757 equipment.

Would you care to join me in congratulating the Manchester Airport team for securing these fantastic new schedules at such a difficult time for the aviation industry in general? Should I hold my breath?

Cheers, SHED.

Momentary Lapse

23rd Sep 2006, 11:48

Hi Shed. Nice to hear from you.

I'm not going to bother answering your comments in detail because we've done it all before.

My views are my views and neither you nor anyone else is entitled to call them incorrect.

I am not a racist, and I call on you to withdraw that serious allegation.

crewboi83

23rd Sep 2006, 12:12

Spud, I think one of the flights is a bit later, think it maybe at the weekend, think its about a 1030ish departure.
Next year the AGP is on the 757 in the morning, bit nicer than the 737 i think

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

23rd Sep 2006, 12:51

Good job we have got 2 runways as it would be fun with runway closure of 24R for 2 or 3 weeks we have at present overnight whilst it gets its cleaning and overhaul as there must be at least 20 movements after the closure time

I`m sure that the airlines would love to go back to the long holds there used to be in the morning and evening when there was only one runway which was quite often 30-40 minutes and just think of all the fuel used and burnt
The Bollin valley and surrounds now look wonderful with it being managed by the wardens and a pleasure to walk through

G-I-B

dwlpl

23rd Sep 2006, 14:05

And what's all this whippets and pies nonsense in your most recent contribution? It sounds like a form of racist stereotyping to me.

This type of thing is rife on this BB.

peakp

23rd Sep 2006, 14:13

Six new routes by Jet2 from the first part of the summer 2007
Barcelona
Berlin
Toulouse
Warsaw
Venice
Paris CDG

But of the six new routes only one is not being served from Manchester at the moment (Venice). Some new destinations is what we need
Regards

Peakp

Shed-on-a-Pole

23rd Sep 2006, 21:36

Hi Momentary Lapse -

Thankyou for your response. You call upon me to withdraw a remark in which you allege that I call you a racist. Er, where is it? I can't seem to find that one! If you do find it, please highlight it to a moderator immediately. I do not know you personally and am not therefore familiar with your views on race. I am therefore in no position to judge you in this respect and make no attempt to do so. However, if I come across a posting made by you which contains material of a suspect nature, I reserve the right to comment upon it since it appears on a public discussion board. I stated that your references to pies and whippets in a posting (about MA board members) "sounds like a form of racist stereotyping." I stand by that.

I note that you don't want a "serious allegation" posted against you. I sympathise entirely. Indeed, I have great sympathy with the MA board members referred to in your posting of 20th September. You insinuate that they succumbed to corruption by accepting gifts and subsequently making a "mysterious" contract award. That sounds like my idea of a "serious allegation". Please remember that your postings often refer to individuals who could easily be identified by readers here, so please be a little more sparing with your accusations or support them with hard evidence.

Moving on, please note that I do not call your VIEWS incorrect. We are all entitled to our opinions. What I did say is that if you post incorrect MATERIAL (ie. facts) I will challenge you. I do note that you have not taken up my invitation to explain how you would accommodate Manchester's Summer 2006 slot demand on a single runway. I note also that you did not choose to join me in congratulating the Manchester Airport team for their string of successes in attracting new routes to Manchester over the last fortnight.

In conclusion, your postings give the impression that you have an agenda. You are consistently negative in all your comments about Manchester Airport. You absolutely have the right to hold such views and post such comments if you wish. But on a discussion board, you must recognise that other posters have the right to post alternative opinions. Where we must draw the line however is in making uncorroborated allegations regarding specified or easily identified individuals who are known to many readers of PPRUNE. It is this aspect of your posts which prompts me to take you to task from time to time. MAplc directors, managers and staff are people with rights and feelings too. Please show more respect when referring to individuals who are known to readers here.

FlyZB

24th Sep 2006, 12:30

[QUOTE]
But of the six new routes only one is not being served from Manchester at the moment (Venice). Some new destinations is what we need

Agreed. However, these are fairly popular destinations and as things stand the fares on these routes are ridiculously priced. Out of all 6, only BCN has relatively cheap fares with ZB. bmi to TLS, BA/Air France to CDG, LOT to WAW and BA to TXL are more often than not very expensive. It's time the more popular cities were opened up more from MAN by offering a low cost alternative before they start thinking about ryanair-esque destinations in the middle of nowhere.

Momentary Lapse

24th Sep 2006, 16:35

Shed

I won't bother arguing with you again as we've been over it before.

Don't make me angry: you wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

24th Sep 2006, 17:42

Guys can we get back to something a bit more consructive please

Now a question has Bangladesh got anywhere near sorting out it`s problems in it`s onward flights to the US?

G-I-B

ryansf

24th Sep 2006, 18:43

Hi,

Does anyone know which A320's Monarch has based at Manchester? I am flying on one to Menorca on Monday 2nd October, and was just wondering which one I'll be on! Also, are these kitted out with the latest leather seats?

Cheers

Ryan

FlyZB

24th Sep 2006, 20:53

The Monarch A320's tend to be swapped around quite frequently. G-MONX, G-OZZB, G-MRJK and G-OZBJ have all been operating out of MAN this past week. Only MONX has the leather seats at the minute as far as i'm aware. You will benefit more if you travel on 1 of the older A320's in the fleet (MONX, OZZB or MPCD) as these have onboard in-flight entertainment systems fitted and if you're travelling on a scheduled (ZB) flight, this service is free. The newer 320's to the fleet (OZBK, OZBJ and MRJK) don't have entertainment systems fitted as yet, or at least they didn't last time I flew on these aircraft.

ryansf

24th Sep 2006, 20:58

I am flying with ZB. Thanks for the advice! Do you know by any chance which aircraft has been operating the Menorca flights recently? Cheers

FlyZB

25th Sep 2006, 15:21

Ryansf,

I'm afraid I don't know which aircraft has been operating MAN - MAH recently but knowing Monarch my guess would be that it's been a mixture of their 320's, whichever have been based at MAN at the time. They don't tend to assign a particular aircraft to a route.

Your best bet would be to try and get hold of someone from Swissport at MAN, preferbaly who works in Ops. They may be able to answer your question more accurately.

Sorry I couldn't be of any further assistance.

FlyZB

ryansf

25th Sep 2006, 20:31

Thank you for your time!

Adola69

25th Sep 2006, 22:44

Hi G.I.B.
As I understand it, Bangladesh Biman have not resolved their problem in routing Man - JFK and return. Something to do with the Bangladesh - USA Air Agreement, which stipulates that Brussels is the named intermediate stop-over and that can't be changed quickly apparently.
However I'm told that shortly the present once a week service to Dacca that arrives via Heathrow, will stop and be replaced with the present Rome service, twice weekly. It will therefore route Dacca - Rome - Man - Rome - Dacca. I'm not sure what days they will be operating on, but I think one is a Sunday and the other possibly Thursday. Time will tell.
Unfortunately this will mean an end to the "Grovel" direct to Dacca that presently occurs with those lovely DC-10's!!:D :ok:
Adola 69.

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

25th Sep 2006, 22:58

Thanks Adola69
I have looked at their website and you are correct with twice weekly Thursday and Sunday and would end up in Manchester about 20.00 and the flights are still DC-10
G-I-B

jongeman

25th Sep 2006, 23:23

I stated that your references to pies and whippets in a posting (about MA board members) "sounds like a form of racist stereotyping." I stand by that.

You're not wrong. It is racist, and it offends me.

Moving on, I think BG have given up any hope of serving JFK. Thier DAC-BRU-JFK service lost shedloads of money apparently, so a change to MAN was an attempt to stem further losses.

I don't think the US really want knackered old Biman DC-10s flying into JFK, and any regulatory agreement to hinder them will have to be upheld.

Operating to MAN is bound to be the best bet for BG, whether it's via BRU or LHR, with either DC-10 or 310.

Ametyst

26th Sep 2006, 06:53

I understand that one of the other problems with Bangladesh Biman operating to New York JFK is that the DC-10s do not strictly comply with noise regulations at JFK and the airline was fined £40,000 each time they operated a rotation through JFK.

rampman

26th Sep 2006, 11:07

Emirates are changing there evening flight from a A330 to B773 from the 29 october they are also looking at going 3 times a day from the end of next summer :ok:

rkenyon

28th Sep 2006, 15:55

rampman

A bit of a friend of a friend story, but I've heard that EK are desperate to open a dedicated lounge in T2, but MA will not let them. The idea would be for it to be Emirates branded, but shared with Virgin.

After using the current 'Escape' lounge last week (Escape is what I did, pretty rapidly), a dedicated lounge would be a godsend.

Cheers,
Rick

gayrugbybloke

29th Sep 2006, 17:31

I have heard that the new proposed 0600 EK arrival from Dubai may carry on to a destination in the USA.

Anyone else know anything else about this?

TURIN

29th Sep 2006, 22:13

gayrugbybloke

The EK cc were talking about this very thing about a year ago but it all died a death. 0600hr arr. You sure?

Adola69

30th Sep 2006, 00:21

I have been told that the rumoured ending of the Norwegian Air Shuttle service to Bergen at the start of the Winter schedules, is incorrect.
They are re-timing their flights along with the day of operation.
The new schedule will be still be a two day per week operation, but now arriving at 09.00 on a Friday and Monday( Local time) and departing at 0945.
I reckon this will be better aimed at the Premier League footy supporters of Man Utd and Man City ( I suppose there are some that support City?) who live in Scandinavia, than the present terrible hours of operation.:D
Over to you Aldi AL - re City ?! :rolleyes:
Adola:p

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

30th Sep 2006, 07:52

It is indeed on their website for November
Arrives Manchester at 09.00 on a Friday and 10.00 on a Monday

G-I-B

Scottie Dog

1st Oct 2006, 16:31

Just been browsing through the next Airac release - due 26th October - and noticed a few items of interest.
1/ New stop-bar D7 introduced at the end of Pier C, old D7 renamed D8.
2/ Taxiway F extended to meet Taxiway J - noticed today that there appears to be a new painted 'grass' island separating J & F.
3/ Light aircraft park is new split into 2. The area at the end of the old Runway 28 (bordering Taxiway A) is renamed Light Aircraft Area 'ROMPA'. The area between Taxiway B and Runway 24R/06L is Light Aircraft Area 'TATON'.
4/ Work on the extension of Taxiway S to the east is due to start. Looks for the chart as if it will be extended to join Taxiway V between links FZ and DZ, although it would appear logical for it to be extended to become an extention of FZ and thus save the sharp right turn onto V.
5/ Rapid Exit Alpha Echo becomes available for usage in LVPs. Will the introduction of a long needed vacating point allow an increase in the landing rate in LVPs?

Finally there is an, as yet, undesignated stop bar on Taxiway N just north of stand 67. If these new stop bars are all operation for the start of the LVP season it should see a welcome increase in the number of movements that Manchester can handled - not nearly as many long stretches with a single aircraft on it.

Any comments?

Scottie Dog.

initial

1st Oct 2006, 17:28

Globespan Cape Town now down to twice a week all winter and looks to be replaced by Canadian destinations from April

757operator

2nd Oct 2006, 09:43

At the moment 24R is closed at night for maintenance. If the weather is poor, it's supposed to be reopened so that the ILS can be used.

So how come I've had to do two approaches over the last few nights, both using RW24L VOR/DME in heavy rain and crosswind with the approach lights only appearing at "100 above" (550ft above the airport)?

In my airline, VOR approaches are commonplace but in many airlines they are unusual and such an approach under these conditions would have an unacceptably high risk.

Would someone from MAPlc or ATC care to comment, please?

AeroMANC

2nd Oct 2006, 18:07

757 Operator,

As you say, the minima for VOR approaches varies from one operator to another - each airline should ensure the Airport and ATC are aware of their operating minima so they can take this into account when planning work on the runway. Why not file an ASR and insist on feedback via the usual safety reporting channels?

757operator

2nd Oct 2006, 22:25

No, all operators do have the same minima (subject maybe to small national variations in how to apply them). It's just that some operators are unaccustomed to doing VOR approaches, let alone down to minima in a crosswind and heavy rain. Tempting them to do so invites trouble.

There's nothing illegal or theoretically unsafe about what is going on, so an ASR is not really applicable. But it still seems to me to be bad practice.

chiglet

3rd Oct 2006, 06:50

757Op
First, the good news. No more runway closures until after Christmas :ok:
Second, the bad news. 140 days of single runway ops next year :ouch:
Third, the really bad news. Runway 24R will be resurfaced in 2008 :{
As ATC, we "discuss" runway closures, and try to minimise any disruption, but at the end of the day, it's MA's airport.
Looking on the bright side. In the past, when any runway work was done on the "Single Runway" as was, the Airlines either rescheduled or diverted. Now there is runway 24L/06R. As an aside, if the forecast is not very good, work on 24R is either postponed, or kept to a minimum, so that a "fully equipped" [ILS] runway is available.
Hope this helps
watp,iktch

MAN777

3rd Oct 2006, 08:28

I bet MAPLC wished they had spent a few more pounds on building a full taxiway system for the new runway, i thought it was very short sighted at the time and i am just a lay man, what do i know ?

Still the batched landings and take offs followed by a runway full of back tracking airliners makes interesting viewing !

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

3rd Oct 2006, 08:57

I may be wrong but was it not one of the deals to the Mobberly/eco set that the taxiway would not be built all the way intially

G-I-B

Sir George Cayley

3rd Oct 2006, 12:53

Geoff Muirhead axed the taxiway to save in the order of £10 million and the 24L ILS to save £1.5 million

The 06R ILS was installed at CAT l standards.

Sir George Cayley

757operator

3rd Oct 2006, 15:35

Chiglet et al, thanks for the info.

Well, if that's what's coming over the next couple of years, now's the time to fit a RW24L ILS. Cat 1 would be fine.

For one of UK's foremost airports to have only a primitive approach aid on the secondary runway is laughable - and £1.5m will seem cheap if even one aircraft gets it wrong.

Also, RW24L is where they try and get the emergencies to land, so as to keep 24R free. Now I've tried RW24L with two engines, I certainly won't be using it on one engine. Sorry MAPlc, but I'll be insisting on an ILS to RW24R and sorry about clogging up your airport for a few hours.

AeroMANC

3rd Oct 2006, 17:41

Chiglet has confirmed what I was told today, 140 nights of runway closures next year, resurfacing 2008. I understand MA are considering the installation of an ILS for RWY24L on this basis - not sure whether this would be to CAT1 or 3 standard. As 757operator suggests,we airlines should insist on this over the coming months.

Scottie Dog

3rd Oct 2006, 18:08

I suspect it would have to be Cat 1 only as the present lighting is only to that level and I presume it would take too long and be too expense to do an upgrade of the lighting - or are the ducts there already?

Yes, it would make sense to have the basic ILS for any time that 24R is out of use.

Scottie Dog

AeroMANC

3rd Oct 2006, 19:17

MA need to consider CAT3 ILS/Lighting - CAT1 doesn't help much in dense fog! Even if there are safety issues concerning dual runway operations in LVP, CAT3 ILS for 24L & 06R would at least keep the place ticking over when 24R & 06L is out of service for long periods. You would assume ducting is already in place for reduced spacing on the centreline. TDZ and Supplementary Approach could be a problem if ducting wasn't installed during the construction.

cleared for take off

3rd Oct 2006, 22:54

Runway designation is changing next year to 05L/R & 23L/R. Does anyone have any idea why:confused:

Lord Toofouright

3rd Oct 2006, 23:26

Having just worked the last two night duties in ATC ( Sunday and Monday), during the inclement weather referred to by " 757 operator ", there was only one period of around six minutes where the weather criteria for VOR / DME approaches, neared the recommended minima (It never fell below). One aircraft executed a go-around during this, followed by a landing some twelve minutes later.
During this whole period I only recieved one observation from a crew after landing, that the weather at the time was " marginal ".
If we are not told that crews are experiencing problems by the crews themselves, and all our conditions for VOR / DME approaches are being met, then we have no reason to suspect that all is not well!!
There are contingencies that should the weather deteriorate below minima, or it is considered that difficulties will be experienced, then we can revert to 24R within 30 - 50 minutes if work on the runway has already started.
To answer "Cleared for take-off's" point about runway designation change, it's all due to the change in the earths magnetic field, called variation. The Magnetic direction for our runway will now err more to 230 degrees than 240 degrees and like wise of course with the reciprocal, thus the need for change.
One idea being put forward however, but not receiving much support, is that to avoid ANY possible confusion between which of the two runways to expect on approach, crossing on the ground, and SIDS for departure, (and believe me sometimes there is a lot of confusion!), is to leave one of them alone, and just rename one to 23 / 05. Would that cause much confusion in the cockpit flying heading 234 to a runway called 24 ?? Comments appreciated. ;)

ETOPS

4th Oct 2006, 07:05

is to leave one of them alone, and just rename one to 23 / 05.

Standard practice in the rest of the world q.v. ATL, HKG, IAH etc etc...

Vuelo

4th Oct 2006, 17:30

I have heard MAN is to possibly get a new service to Madrid with a low cost operator. Anyone know anything? Air Madrid, Spanair?

ManchesterMan

4th Oct 2006, 17:53

VUELO

Maybe CLICK............

MM

Euroboy39

4th Oct 2006, 18:16

easyJet maybe? The EZ/MAN rumour has been flying round for ages. Trying MAN from an existing base could test the waters?

bmiBaby- with 4 aircraft becoming available (2x new, 2xMME) and 3 going to BHX, MAD could be part of an expansion from MAN

Jet2- They already have Spain covered from MAN, so Madrid would be a logical choice. They would be my favourite to serve the city.

Ryanair- if MAD does ever become a base, as was rumoured some time ago, then MAN could benefit from a route- this is highly unlikely I guess, but possible.

Vueling- entering the UK market must be highly lucrative, but very competitive, so having gained brand recognition in Spain they might be ina good position to give the UK a go?

It really could be anyone!

gayrugbybloke

4th Oct 2006, 19:03

As of 2nd November 2006, Mahan Air will change its flights TO

Thursdays arriving at 1730hrs, departing 1900hrs

Saturdays arriving at 1800hrs, departing at 1930hrs

ICING AOA

4th Oct 2006, 19:29

Jet2- They already have Spain covered from MAN, so Madrid would be a logical choice. They would be my favourite to serve the city.

and what about Monarch ? :rolleyes:

Momentary Lapse

4th Oct 2006, 20:21

Geoff Muirhead axed the taxiway to save in the order of £10 million and the 24L ILS to save £1.5 million

and £1.5m will seem cheap if even one aircraft gets it wrong.

Since that decision was made, say 10 years ago, the Board members will collectively have been paid quite a lot more than £1.5m in bonuses.

Fact. Check the published accounts.

757operator

5th Oct 2006, 09:17

Re VORDME RW24L, on Saturday night/Sunday morning when we came in the approach lights were visible at "100 above" minima but the PAPI's did not show until below MDA. Not good for manoeuvring, and remember too that the final approach track and the runway don't line up. The weather was far worse than what was officially on this ATIS, which is of course up to 29 minutes out of date. Also, as you might expect in showers, the weather on the approach was a lot worse than on the airport.

Surely the move to reopen 24R shouldn't be when RW24L falls to VORDME minima, but well in advance, say 1000ft cloudbase? The minima are just that, the very worst acceptable conditions. They are not a target for MaPlc to aim at and the runway should be changed well before the minima are reached.

Having to do an approach down to VORDME minima is what you have to do at an undeveloped airport in the Med or Third World, not in mainstream UK just because the airport operator fancies doing a bit of work on the runway that should be in use.

jongeman

5th Oct 2006, 15:37

At the moment the long-hauls for next summer are the same as this year, give or take the odd aircraft subsitution (Delta 763s in place of 764s) and the loss of SQ's 2 weekly ZRH/SIN 744 flights. These are probably being replaced by 777s, depending upon aircraft availability.

CX start to Hong Kong indefinitely postponed and there's been no announcement by TG about a possible MAN-BKK service.

jongeman

5th Oct 2006, 15:52

CX couldn't get the right regulatory approval to route through Moscow, so it looks like they've given up, because it's all gone quiet.

SQ apparently does very well from MAN. So much so, that there was talk of an additional 3 weekly frequencies, bringing the total to 10. I don't know why the MAN-ZRH-SIN flights have been pulled, other than it's reported that they're not as popular with passengers. Having intermediate stops is no longer really a profitable way to operate.

Nobody seems to know about SQ's plans to replace these two flights, but they are currently taking delivery of 777-300ERs (not sure how many). I think it's pretty safe to say that MAN will receive at least a daily direct 777 in future.

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

5th Oct 2006, 18:11

I believe the problem SIA has is that the B747 are leaving the fleet and of course we all know about the A380 to replace them.

G-I-B

bigmuk

8th Oct 2006, 18:09

yo guys, the antobob that was here in Manchester earlier this week, does anyone know if it true whether it will be coming back with all the equipment it took out ????

AlphaWhiskyRomeo

8th Oct 2006, 19:37

yo guys, the antobob that was here in Manchester earlier this week, does anyone know if it true whether it will be coming back with all the equipment it took out ????

No, EMA by the sounds of it - on Tues/Weds.

initial

9th Oct 2006, 12:02

Looks like the GB airways MLA service is to make a comeback next summer despite its axing for the winter. BA timetable showing a daily service.

2 based A320's again next summer one of which will do the 3*week BRS-TFS on a W pattern. PFO, TFS and HER all confirmed for next summer although no sign of DBV or AGP. There are a few gaps in this schedule although not enough time to do anymore W patterns suggesting one or two new routes from MAN? anyone know more??

Is the EMA-TFS dropped after the winter?

Railgun

9th Oct 2006, 13:11

initial

GB will not operate MAN-AGP again.

Flightrider

9th Oct 2006, 13:21

DBV has been dropped for next summer as well.

FlyZB

9th Oct 2006, 16:16

Does anyone know why they are dropping AGP? You have to be a little concerned if they can't make AGP work. This is one of the core destinations along with ALC, PMI and FAO. I know there's a lot of competition on the MAN - AGP route but there's so much demand that surely they can all operate in harmony with one another. ZB, WW, LS and TOM all seem to cope with good year round loads despite the large volume of flights. Is this another case of a BA operator running scared of the opposition?

phil_2405

9th Oct 2006, 17:01

Is the EMA-TFS dropped after the winter?
Not that I'm aware of.

Railgun

9th Oct 2006, 18:37

Heard mutterings that for every passanger GB carried MAN-AGP it cost them money true or not i am not sure. This will have changed considerably since going to the Connect product IMHO.

FlyZB

13th Oct 2006, 15:47

Just been down the southside of the airport this afternoon and noticed that 24L was being used for departures at 14.15. I thought that the airport adopted a single runway operation between 12.00 - 15.00 daily. Has this changed?

RoyHudd

13th Oct 2006, 17:54

lexxity

13th Oct 2006, 18:02

Manchester airport to start charging to pick up passengers.

BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6044572.stm)

AeroMANC

13th Oct 2006, 18:10

RH,

Whilst I'm sure a CAT3 ILS on RWY24L would beneficial - what help would that have been today? I would suggest a CAT3 ILS on RWY06R would be more of a priority given the operating modes a MAN. My understanding is that they can operate dual runway 24L/24R in LVP's due to cloud (but not RWY06L/06R as 06R is only equipped for CAT1. They need to look carefully at developing dual runway operations in LVP due to visibility, I suspect part of the issue is runway crossing's and the associated runway incursion risk.

I suppose we have to accept that in adverse conditions there is likely to be some degree of disruption.

1DC

13th Oct 2006, 20:10

Week last monday (2nd.) youngest daughter and i passed through MAN. She checked in for a BA flight at about 0530 bound to Oz via LHR. I checked in Jet2 for a flight to VLC at about the same time. I passed through security in about ten minutes and she took 1 Hour 20 minutes to pass through security. Would the large difference in time be due to volume or other reasons?? Just seemed to be a lot of people about at both terminals..

Mr A Tis

13th Oct 2006, 23:39

For T1 & T3 you can expect an average of 1 hour to get through security at peak times, it seems illogical though as it varies from day to day. As I now often spend an hour to check in & an hour to get through security, I have cancelled my exec lounge pass & no longer use airside shops, due lack of time.There is no pleasure whatsoever in starting your trip from MAN.
It is frankly appalling, recently passed through a very busy Hamburg, Barcelona & Dusseldorf-all with ZERO security queuing times.Add this to the minimum £1.80 charge to pick pax up, being shortly introduced under the laughable guise of "safety" & "security".
Its certainly making EZY & RYR flights from Liverpool alot more attractive. Do they really think business men on short flights are going to put up with these huge wait times?:rolleyes:

Ametyst

13th Oct 2006, 23:50

Mr A Tis is right. I flew out of Liverpool last Friday night (A very busy time at Liverpool) and the queue was backed up into the landside buffet area yet the queue was moving and it only took 8 minutes to get through security. All x-ray machines and Security frames were operational and it was well staffed.

Incidentally, Liverpool Airport is to expand the security search area and add a fifth X-ray machine (complete with staff!!!!) in November.

lexxity

14th Oct 2006, 07:36

The security queues in T3 are dreadful in the morning, once check in begins for the 0600 departures it all goes mad and the queues have ended up back past the Donkey Stone!!!!

The queue usually eases around 10am ish.

It is an utter, utter disgrace and besides being embarrassing it is downright dangerous, if there were to be a fire then the crush of passengers and staff trying to leave would kill more than any fire.

1DC

14th Oct 2006, 09:20

If it is as regular as this then i hope someone is working on a solution.MAN has been my airport of choice for long haul but may have a rethink if it persists.
Incidentally Oz daughter missed her connection from LHR to MAN when she arrived at the end of August, due to security queues at LHR.Two hours in the queue which she put down to the higher security state, she was well pi$$ed off when she arrived at security to find four x ray machines but only one being used..

gayrugbybloke

14th Oct 2006, 12:37

Terminal outbound security is being enhanced by the addition of extra searh facilities currently being built where one the VLM ticket desk was. I understand this will be use for international and domestic passengers, and can even be used for T1 passengers, who can then access T1 via the southern front.

Scottie Dog

14th Oct 2006, 19:09

Momentary Lapse

14th Oct 2006, 19:56

It's good to see the pickup areas are being tightened up. The "10 mins free at T1" thing is a throwback to before the arrivals car park was built, as a sort of grandfather right.

The forecourts need managing to reduce congestion. How do fire engines and ambulances get in in an emergency if there's picker-uppers parked randomly all over the place?

Also, aren't the DfT a bit touchy about cars so close to the fronts of the buildings?

At least MA have reduced the 30 min charge to ease the pain a bit. It's about time they regularised it. Aren't Luton and others doing the same thing?

Seems like a sensible decision by MA for once.

UFGBOY

15th Oct 2006, 09:37

If anybody has any sense, they will go to front of Olympic House to be picked up!!

They won award for best airport at Northern Travel Trade Ball - farcical

There is a lift in T3 Short stay car park (1 of 2 ) that has been out of service 'due to essential maintenance' (as opposed to unessential?!) since March of this year

Inter terminal travelators are still hit and miss

T 3 Security lines were long on Thursday am as well - why not open the Jersey/Northern Ireland queue to UK Domestic pax as well?

True Blue

15th Oct 2006, 10:07

Security at manchester, like other airports is a mess, not because of the regulations but because of the egoes of those operating and managing security. I travel through manchester to Belfast and I am made to go through the belfast/Eire/IoM etc channel even though Belfast is a domestic destination like London, Edinburgh etc. I am forced to go through this channel, even though as soon as I pass the desk that checks that you have a boarding pass, I then join all the other pax. I have asked why Belfast pax are not treated like other domestic pax and I can't get a reasonable answer. I flew through 4 domestic airports last week and at Bhx, all pax were forced to remove all footwear. This only happened at Bhx and when I asked why only Bhx, I was told that it was local management who insisted that this be done. There is no consistancy on these rules and then the powers wonder why pax get angry!!!

True Blue

Ametyst

15th Oct 2006, 11:38

I regularly travel through both Manchester and Liverpool. The other morning I was travelling standby from Manchester to Gatwick on the first flight of the morning with BA. The security queue was back to the car park bridge and myself and some BA cabin staff only had 30 minutes to get through security and on to the aircraft.

We noticed that nobody was queuing at the Channel Islands/Northern Ireland entrance to security and that there was a security person sat there. We explained we only had 30 minutes to get the flight and he said this is for CI/NI passengers only (surely he has a role in the Nationwide TV adverts) and that we had to join the main queue. This despite the fact that there was no Belfast flight due out for another 90 minutes and that there was no Channel Islands flight on the board. Why can't this gate be used for sole use at busy times?

A week later I travelled from Liverpool to Paris CdG and once again the security search area was very busy but the staff here were re-dirceting passengers to the staff/domestic departures security screening area to reduce the queue. Common sense in use! Take note Manchester

Vuelo

15th Oct 2006, 15:36

Bulgaria Air to start weekly Varna scheduled service from November.

Expect services to Romania soon with its forthcoming entry to the EU.

chiglet

15th Oct 2006, 16:14

Scottie,
Yes, I did mean night closures :ugh:
ps It was after a night duty :ok:
watp,iktch

Momentary Lapse

16th Oct 2006, 10:32

True Blue: Assuming you mean T1, you have to go to the right of the desk to go past the Police video camera or inspection point if there's a copper actually there. Then you rejoin the main queue. Belfast is also domestic so they should take your picture first, for matching at the gate.

True Blue

16th Oct 2006, 11:08

I think it's what they call T3, as I use mainly Baby. My gripe is, we are not treated as domestic. I understand that all domestic have a photo taken as they are also mixing with international, but we are not allowed to pass down the same route as London Glasgow etc. When you are travelling to Belfast through most of the mainland airports, you are treated very much as a third class citizen. I flew into Man on the 6th Oct. We were put on a bus and driven around in a circle, past at least 4 entry doors before being offloaded not far from the aircraft that we had arrived in. This door was almost as far away as you could get. Bhx and Ncl are the same and after a period of time, this treatment gets very trying. I also believe that most at UK airports do not understand that Belfast is a domestic destination.

True Blue

Vuelo

16th Oct 2006, 11:29

Have heard a rumopur that WW want to move back to T1, but don;t know how true that is.

Are the airport not working on a masterplan to transform T3 in to a far bigger terminal with more gates and expansion of the check-in and security areas? Let's face it, is the only terminal this could be done relatively cheaply...how much is corrugated iron these days?

Railgun

16th Oct 2006, 12:45

The isle of man is treated in the same way as belfast now. Its a terrible situation.

NudgingSteel

16th Oct 2006, 20:10

Manchester Airport were feeble in the extreme in their handling of traffic today. Granted LVP's, but traffic flow was simply staggering in its slowness. Not knocking ATC, but why has 24L not got a Cat 3 ILS, and why does single runway operation persist when vis is at worst murky? Most professional big airports can handle double the traffic flow in these type of conditions.
Along with the Staff Security debacle, this is a continuing saga of useless management and a poorly run airport. I am voicing the opinion of many MAN-based colleagues as well as my own.

Re single rwy ops:The two runways at Manchester are so close (400m ish) that there are strict rules governing simultaneous operations even in good weather. I can't imagine a go-around from 24R versus a northbound simultaneous dep from 24L is fun for anyone in decent weather. In fog that's just crazy.
How would 24L ILS help in LVPs?

chiglet

16th Oct 2006, 21:45

True Blue..
For a change it is NOT MA [PLCs] fault. NI/IOM etc are still covered by "Special Branch". Hence you "depart" from a "security" gate [Normally G3] and then [on arrival] get "bussed" to another [secure] gate
Hope this helps
watp,iktch

Ametyst

16th Oct 2006, 22:03

For a change it is NOT MA [PLCs] fault. NI/IOM etc are still covered by "Special Branch". Hence you "depart" from a "security" gate [Normally G3] and then [on arrival] get "bussed" to another [secure] gate

Why does still happen at Manchester. It doesn't happen at Liverpool (which has a lot more passengers travelling to Isle of Man, Belfast and Londonderry than Manchester), Glasgow, Luton or Stansted.

True Blue

16th Oct 2006, 22:46

Must agree totally with the last post. Ir seems to me that if the explanation is true, then "Special Branch" seem to be on some sort of ego trip. The threat of terrorism is everywhere now, in Northern ireland it is at the lowest level for many years. So why are we still subjected to being taken to the back door and then to be "looked over" by special branch who stop the occassional pax and ask useless questions? And why especially does IOM get this treatment? This is just another example of a few on a power trip, hide behind prevention of terrorism laws. The worst offenders are man, Bhx and Ncl.

True Blue

Momentary Lapse

16th Oct 2006, 22:49

Special Branch is surely much better than it was, now the SB desk is at security not in the old Causeway Lounge. At least the NI pax can have time to get to the shops now, security queues permitting :)

They still seem to want to check all NI passengers under terrorism legislation. There are a few other departures they might perhaps be examining more closely..... ;)

True Blue

16th Oct 2006, 22:57

I would have thought that there are lots of other departures that they should be looking at. But there is one important point, Belfast pax are an easy target, wouldn't want to have to work too hard to earn your pay, would you? And isn't it great, having the prevention of terrorism Act to hide behind.

True Blue

Vuelo

17th Oct 2006, 10:49

Looks like we may be getting an announcement from Thai about a new service? With a stop in India??

FFHKG

17th Oct 2006, 17:21

Sure that this routing is TG? CX have been looking at routing HKG/MAN thro' India since they were unable to route thro' Moscow.

TG already serve Delhi daily (as do other carriers from BKK), whilst AI have no competition from HKG to their service to Delhi.

Scottie Dog

17th Oct 2006, 20:40

757Operator
Had an interesting chat with one of the planning guys whilst visiting the 'roadshow' in Hale Barnes this evening.
Apparantly there is some consideration being given to installing ILS on 24L. Now what category this would be at I do not know, but it was interesting that that particular little item was raised without any real prompting.
With regards to the night time closure next year, apparantly this is to enable preparatory work to be done on re-wiring the 24R lighting system. This is in preparation for the resurfacing to take place in 2008.

spannersatcx

18th Oct 2006, 16:35

Looks like we may be getting an announcement from Thai about a new service? With a stop in India??
Just asked them and they say they have no plans for Manchester only LHR.

phil2

18th Oct 2006, 18:02

HOW WELL is QATAR doing at MAN

also has anyone flew to any of these middle east places and that side of the world.if so how full was the flight?

pwalhx

18th Oct 2006, 18:20

Flown with QR 4 times this year and each time looked at Economy and it has been near enough full and in Business where I was usually a reasonable load if that helps.

phil2

18th Oct 2006, 18:28

yes thanks
i wouldnt of thought it do so well

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

18th Oct 2006, 19:58

Why?

Very good airline with a good product

G-I-B

Ringwayman

18th Oct 2006, 20:56

Just asked them and they say they have no plans for Manchester only LHR.

Must have changed their tune then seeing that they've "gone public" on their website (through the investor's relations slideshows) about serving MAN in the not too distant future.

jongeman

18th Oct 2006, 22:04

Ringwayman

They said in 2005 that they were looking to serve MAN and BER in 2007 or 2008, so it's a shame if they've decided to concentrate on LHR instead for the forseeable future.

spannersatcx

19th Oct 2006, 14:22

Must have changed their tune then seeing that they've "gone public" on their website (through the investor's relations slideshows) about serving MAN in the not too distant future.

Read that, it is dated 2Q 2005, and says "Launch new destinations such as Moscow, Johannesburg, Berlin, Manchester & Christchurch. Which doesn't seem like a total commitment, shame really.

phil2

19th Oct 2006, 14:42

because who would go to doha

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

19th Oct 2006, 15:01

Most are only transiting Doha as they are onward to far east

G-I-B

andybsei

19th Oct 2006, 16:37

because who would go to doha
Phil2 - this is just the kind of ill-educated question i hate to see on these forums. If you had taken 2 minutes to look on the internet you would see that Doha is a vibrant Middle Eastern waterfront city with a wide range of fantastic hotels, for families, business travellers and couples alike.
Please think, or at least try to make an effort, before you post such a question again.

:ugh:

Vuelo

19th Oct 2006, 17:13

Maybe Phil2 should start his own thread.....Doha-1?

Let's try and keep this forum to Manchester talk, please!

Scottie Dog

19th Oct 2006, 17:29

On the basis of the CAA provisional statistics for September I would say that the Qatar service is doing fairly well.

The figures show 12984 passengers as having been carried during the month. Since there is a daily service it only takes basis maths (thank goodness) to calculate that the average load is therefore 216 passengers. I do not know the seating configuration for QR, but I think that the load-factor will be quite reasonable - as to the profitability of the route, well that is a different question.

Hope that helps to finally put the question to bed.

Regards

Scottie Dog

gayrugbybloke

19th Oct 2006, 18:15

October figures will be poor for all three Gulf carriers at MAN because of Ramadan. Some days, Etihad was struggling to carry over 100 passengers.

By the way, are these CAA stats on their website?

phil2

19th Oct 2006, 18:15

yes i didnt know.

Scottie Dog

19th Oct 2006, 18:26

Hopefully the Mods will permit this link......apologies if I've broken the rules

Statistics for UK airports are freely available from their website at:

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=80&pagetype=88&pageid=11&sglid=11

Best wishes

Scottie Dog

ManchesterMan

19th Oct 2006, 19:43

Viewing the figures for the Doha route I was wondering
if the carriers service from Gatwick is daily?

If it is then the Gatwick service isnt doing as well as the
Manchester - according to provisional figures etc.....for
september.

MM

phil2

20th Oct 2006, 17:13

Were still in the sumer perios right?
so wil MAN still be very busy tommorow.usually it quietens down over winter.
just wondered.
cheers.

spannersatcx

20th Oct 2006, 19:04

Winter hasn't started yet, winter schedules start when the clocks change in October, i.e. next weekend.

loubylou

20th Oct 2006, 22:10

Were still in the sumer perios right?
so wil MAN still be very busy tommorow.usually it quietens down over winter.
just wondered.
cheers.
After deciphering your post Phil2, yes MAN is still busy. As said, the winter schedules don't kick in until the clocks change, and it's half term this week.
But there will still be " moments "!!

louby

phil2

21st Oct 2006, 12:00

yes will next weekend still be busy

spud

22nd Oct 2006, 08:53

I've found something else to dislike about Manch Intl Blairport.

The currency police.

Got sniffed by the dog after security yesterday, SLFing out after operating in(memo to self - change underwear more often).

Got interviewed in the departure lounge by some Doris from the Department of Money asking to discuss my currency and asking if I'd like to go somewhere private to answer some questions. Having a total of about 50 quid on me I felt safe enough to stay where I was. Answered questions - got let off!

On a serious note, it was intimidating, potentially humiliating and most certainly infuriating. My flight left late, I noticed some people boarding late. I suspect they too got the inquisition by Stalin's mates.

WTF has happened to the country ? Certainly convinced me I was right to move out a few years ago. Did you lot really vote for this ?!?

El Spud

TURIN

22nd Oct 2006, 20:10

"WTF has happened to the country ?"

Well, for a start we managed to get the sexist, right wing, over-sensitive maris pipers to leave the country and allow the rest of us to revel in an egalitarian utopia. :E :ok:

gazza007

23rd Oct 2006, 09:16

spud

23rd Oct 2006, 14:30

gazza, 1 hour at T3 at that time should be fine.
For T1 late morning, 1 hour 30 should be OK, but 2 hours will be OK if that makes sense. Security can still take a long time (if that's not too sexist, right wing or over-sensitive to say so:ugh: ).

FlyZB

23rd Oct 2006, 14:38

Don't turn up at T1 for your bmibaby flight to AGP! WW operate from T3! And i'd ensure you checkin at least 2 hours before for your Malaga flight. T3 security has been hectic of late!

gazza007

23rd Oct 2006, 16:54

Cheers Guy's,
I know WW is from T3 just not used them since the move. On the same flight's 3 weeks later this time with my lady so will be a good practice.
I live Very local so not a problem.
I used to use BA from T3 to LHR & LGW when they first started self check-in & print your BC's at home. I could leave home 45 mins before the flight & walk straight-in & to the gate on to the plane.
First time to LCY so looking forward to the trip:)

FlyZB

23rd Oct 2006, 21:43

I really enjoyed my LCY flight earlier this year. I found the VLM service to be excellent, especially on such a short hop. And LCY is a breeze compared to other London airports!

Enjoy your trip!

gayrugbybloke

24th Oct 2006, 09:11

Anyone know the schedule for the MyTravel flights to China starting in the new year?

Momentary Lapse

24th Oct 2006, 14:27

LCY is a fine airport - just like T3 used to be. All on one level, parking nearby etc.

Just brace yourself for harsh braking after landing. It's only a short runway, with water all around, so the pilot leaves touchdown and braking to the last minute, in case he/she needs to go around.

busz

24th Oct 2006, 17:54

so the pilot leaves touchdown and braking to the last minute, in case he/she needs to go around.

I doubt that's true.

Thomas_Cook_757-300

24th Oct 2006, 19:15

Anyone know the schedule for the MyTravel flights to China starting in the new year?

The first flight departs 10:45 on 6 May 2007 as MYT085.

Thomas_Cook_757-300

gazza007

25th Oct 2006, 08:54

I'm on the 06:35 to LCY with VLM tomorrow morning, will an hour be sufficient to check-in & get through security etc.

On the following Tuesday, 31st I'm off to AGP on the 09:50 with WW. Taking my 4 kids. In the past from T1 only used to arrive for WW with about 1:30 as I live local, will this sill be OK or shall I make it 2 hrs.

1 hour was more than sufficient, could have left it till 30 mins, security was very good & well staffed. Ps WW desks seemed OK so will make it about 1:40 hrs next Tue for AGP.
VLM Service outward was great. LCY smart little airport, very short runway.. Enjoyed the F50.
Left Bond street tube at 13:30, changed at Bank for DLR arrived 14:10 for 14:45 return flight, which wasn't showing on board, anyway went to info desk after security to be told that it had been cancelled due to going tech (don't think so, more like lack of passengers) I'd been put on 16:00 which eventually dept runway at 16:25. Arrived Man 17:15. Incidently bumped into Capt while waiting at Station & asked why 14:45 had been cancelled, said he didn't know as he had been busy & quickly jumed on a train!!!!!!!
Anyway would use VLM again.

Momentary Lapse

25th Oct 2006, 20:08

I doubt that's true.

For my own learning, why else would he/she leave it to the last minute to throw it on the deck and whiplash all the passengers, like it's the Ark Royal? Customer Service perhaps?

pp763

25th Oct 2006, 20:27

busz is correct.
All aircraft that land at LCY do so in the landing zone not far from the start of each runway and braking is applied as nececary.
The go around height or minimums is 500ft for runway 28 and 330ft for 10 for the 146.
I arrived on runway 10 in a Fokker 50 a couple of years ago and there was ample room to swing around mid runway without harsh braking.

busz

26th Oct 2006, 09:46

For my own learning, why else would he/she leave it to the last minute to throw it on the deck and whiplash all the passengers, like it's the Ark Royal? Customer Service perhaps?

Im not trying to patronise you, i dont know what your background is, and i dont know VLM SOPs, but i would presume that they would have to have a stabilised approach at around 500 feet in order to continue with the landing. Leaving it to the last minute and "throwing it on the deck" is not condusive to safe commercial operation. It just may have seemed a little agricultural.

Regards

Alex

MAN777

26th Oct 2006, 09:51

Forgive me for thinking this MANCHESTER thread has been a bit sidetracked, can we talk about MAN please.

Momentary Lapse

26th Oct 2006, 13:59

Thanks for telling me. That's another bar-room anecdote I can't use any more :hmm:
Back on topic then. Sorry all for the deviation.

spanishflea

28th Oct 2006, 18:37

Does anyone know if AA have canned their Miami service this winter? I used it last year and it was great, with a full load up front, but I can find no evidence of it on the AA website.

One possibility is that the range of dates it operates on is reduced and therefore its not showing up as an option on the dates I'm searching (throughout March and April), but I'm not too sure?

Tisme

28th Oct 2006, 20:43

Can't see it at all on there timetable.

Playamar2

30th Oct 2006, 17:04

I understand the AA to Miami has been shelved as mostly used by tour companies for linking up with cruise ships departing Miami & Ft Lauderdale. Not a good yield so aircraft employed elsewhere.

Playamar

spanishflea

30th Oct 2006, 17:58

That is a shame, like I said earlier, the front of the aircraft was jam packed when I used it, although quite a few were connecting onwards westbound and to the Carribean also.

initial

31st Oct 2006, 11:19

Aer Lingus to start a 5*week service to ORK

Swiss to recommence BSL 3*week

Vuelo

2nd Nov 2006, 12:45

Have heard that flyBE are looking to announce some more routes from MAN for the summer. Anyone know if this is true?

Would like to see some French regional routes personally!

initial

2nd Nov 2006, 16:03

Vuelo

On 11 Oct 2005 Flybe announced the EXT and BHD routes. In the press release they stated that they intended to make MAN 'a low cost base' and would be announcing 6 new routes over the next two years. Since then the have only started one new route (NWI). Therefore (assuming the bit about the six new routes wasnt a load of Flybe hot air) the remaining 5 new routes should be starting next summer season.

Whilst I too think French routes would be useful, I think Flybe will be more likely to concentrate on Scottish routes as they have recently from BHX. I think they will try to push Eastern off the INV route, and try to muscle in on the Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen routes, as it seems competition from bmi and bacon dosen't bother them.

dwlpl

2nd Nov 2006, 16:33

In the press release they stated that they intended to make MAN 'a low cost base' and would be announcing 6 new routes over the next two years. Since then the have only started one new route (NWI). Therefore (assuming the bit about the six new routes wasnt a load of Flybe hot air) the remaining 5 new routes should be starting next summer season.

They said the same when they annouced their Liverpool base (in fact they say similar every time they 'open' a base) and look what happened there.

TBirdFrank

2nd Nov 2006, 21:32

If you are going to drop someone off at T1 or even to collect someone you know has already landed, and is on the kerbside waiting, then beware - MAN has introduced a new requirement that you must park in the short stay cay park at aminimum charge of £1.80 - or - £3.20 if you stay more than half an hour.

This will be extended to T2 and T3 in the near future.

Another customer service brought to you by MAN in the name of "Security" but which will also co-incidentallyyield a nice little revenue stream