Social life at BA?

[cornet]

As it seems to be quite popular to open new threaths about the social life in different airlines, I thought one of BA is missing to make it complete! :)
So, how is the social life at BA, esp. longhaul? How are the stops with the crew? Spending most of the time together with the flightdeck crew on the golf course, sightseeing, in a pub, ....? Cabin crew is out for shoppping and u see them again at pick up?
How is the social life at the homebase? :confused:
Thanks!

[Carnage Matey!]

Flight crew almost always go out for a drink or social activities, cabin crew almost never. You won't see the cabin crew out anywhere on a nightstop and only rarely on the second night of a longer slip. There is a high proportion of Spanish and Italian cabin crew and you have more chance of seeing a unicorn downroute than one of those. The French are similar but not quite so bad. If you attempt to organise some sort of activity do not be surprised to see nobody but the flight crew turn up, despite assurances to the contrary.

The cabin crew have many phrases for 'no' including:

I'll see how I feel.
If I'm there I'm there.
I got up really early.
I just need to wash my hair first.
I have to ring my boyfriend (note works for both sexes)

They all mean they're not coming out but they don't want to say it.

On the plus side if the flight crew say they'll be there then they'll be there, on time, and possibly with some extra mates. There's always someone to have a beer with, they are generally willing to try new ideas, golfing, sailing, go-karting, etc are always popular downroute and you can find you end up spending a lot of cash having a great day out. Just occasionally you might even get some of the crew out then its even more fun.

On shorthaul you'll spend your days arriving everywhere late then having a couple of beers whilst looking intently at your watch to make sure you are way below the legal alcohol limit when you report the next day. Chances are you will not arrive with the cabin crew you'll depart with and they may be in a different hotel. Generally they are of the same breed as on long haul but as you have fewer of them you are less likely to see one socialising.

[ETOPS]

Carnage Matey! paints a pretty bleak picture of the social side of BA "off duty" but I guess he's using the wrong aftershave ;)

Truth to tell it's very dependant on the actual destination, the mix of cabin crew and how all the flight crew get on with everyone else. The mix can be so fragile that one mistimed quip can lead to a very lonely nightstop. However, in my experience, a normal social life is possible - it just needs a lot of effort.

The simple rule is:- single night in a well travelled destination (think JFK, BOS etc) then it's P1 + P2 + chicken wings and beer.

Two nights or more in nice surroundings (HKG, SIN , SFO etc) and given the right chemistry, the craic is fantastic. :ok:

[Mooney12]

I was under the impression that the cabin crew were well up for a night out down route?!

Whats the social side of things like down at Gatwick on the 73?

Cheers

[The Greaser]

Carnage Matey! sums it up pretty nicely. With the new midfleet agreement at LGW hopefully LGW longhaul nightstops might be more sociable soon.

[Ron & Edna Johns]

Carnage, mate, are you talking about Speedbird or Qantas?!?!

[FlyingTom]

Mooney 12

Gatwick cabin crew are a really nice bunch. At BA the cc get vouchers for food so sensibly eat in, flight crew don't so we tend to eat out then meet up later.

[bloggs2]

Ron - and the difference is?

[scroggs]

Where destinations co-incide, BA pilots tend to try and share our (Virgin's) cabin crew!

[Megaton]

Scroggs,

You must have seen our cc so I'm sure you wouldn't mind sharing yours :)

[AIRWAY]

Those Virgin girls :ok: beauty :ok:

[chandlers dad]

Try to get a leg or two to Lagos.

Was based there for a few weeks this spring and the scenery and late night activities was very good. BA, Virgin and so on all RON at the Sheraton there and the flight deck and cabin crew mingle in Goodies, the bar in the lobby.

My copilot was getting lucky every night. I am over 50 so it was not a "target rich environment" for me like it was for him. Stay away from the local "working girls" and the cabin crew will keep you busy enough.

CD

[GreatCircle]

Sounds like the Nigellas aren't the fun bunch I thought they were.

In the dead of winter here in YYZ, when the Speedbird crew arrive at T3 for the eastbound hop - and occasionally I arrive at the same time for work, it looks like the hosties have spent all day shopping, and the fellas in the pointy end probably ended up having the burger and beer before kip, and spending all day in....

The glamour of it all...just don't talk to me about day returns from YUL to SXM...

PS CD...50 is young mate...:ok:

[chandlers dad]

Gc,

Have to agree with most of that but when most of the ladies in the cabin are mostly under 25 they pay a lot more attention to my copilot then they ever do to me! :)

Someday they will learn which one will take better care of them! My current lady friend is 28 (was not chasing her, she asked me out) and life is just fine mate!

[matzpenetration]

The comments about our CC are very true although there is seasonal variation in the way they socialise on SH. Invariably in the summer season they will join us for a few drinks and something to eat and it can be quite a good laugh. In the winter all you hear is "I'm just so tired / early night / too cold / don't want to go out / got no warm clothes / no other shoes.....etc" You get the picture!

Most are pretty good but some still adopt the them/us mentality towards the flight deck community and avoid us like the plague (probably with good reason in some cases).

The glory days of aviation where flying interrupted the socialising are long gone.

[Carnage Matey!]

Gc,
Have to agree with most of that but when most of the ladies in the cabin are mostly under 25.......

In BA were just glad if they are under 25 stone!:{

ETOPS - are you on the triple as reports seem to indicate that the social side of things is better over there than on the 400. Anway you'll rarely get the crew out in HKG, too busy getting colonics!:eek:

[Hotel Mode]

I've given up trying to drag em out, if they're the slam click brigade they wont exactly bring much to the party except encyclopeadic knowledge of macys, crate and barrel and cats. The ones that do come out are great but its sometimes difficult to get the critical mass.

Sightseeing etc i'm often alone but when the crew on the way back ask what you've done always a couple go "oh i'd have loved to do that"

The Temp crew on Worldwide LHR are a breath of fresh air, big range of ages and backgrounds but they all actually want to be there and are loving to opportunities that 80% of crew forgot existed.

[ETOPS]

are you on the triple

Carnage Matey!

No - came over to the dark side a while ago.........:ok:

Still have fun downroute though. It's all in the approach - chat up the CSD in the briefing and once the crew see that "Mum & Dad" are getting along, everyone relaxs a bit.

[Waka Rider]

Cornet bro

You will find our CC are great in many respects and normally on 777 the crew are tired. But with the contract crew breathing fresh air into old lungs its great. You get out what you put in mate. Particularly if your working weekends a Fri, Sat night in ORD,JFK,BOS,PHL,MCO,TPA,IAH barely,DFW are all great and with the single fleet crew coming into effect in LGW its going to be like a Kebab to a pi:mad: :mad: head at 2am.

Enjoy you will not be lonely

[DOJETDRIVER]

Where do they put you guys on the IAH night stop?

[G--SPOT]

Have to say carnage, are you sure it's not you matey? I can't remember the last time I went out without the crew.
Just back from Bangkok and gonna be needing my week off!
And even my recent statesides have had good turn out.
Just be friendly, not too slimy and they're fine.

[Carnage Matey!]

Definitely not just me G-SPOT. My opinion is shared by most of the ex-shorthaul cabin crew I know who are now on longhaul and by the CSD on my last trip!

[Alpha_India]

Gentlemen: Thank you very much for the recent discussion going on in here.
With myself being invited for the assessment process in the near future, there is one more aspect which I kindly ask you to shed some light on:

-Does the company require you to nominate a fixed adresse of residence? (Or would a hotel adresse probably be enough?) How are standy duties assigned? (In blocks of several days in a row, single days ?)

Thank you very much,


AI.

[Carnage Matey!]

I suppose any address will do, but don't quote me on that. You will need to provide a contact telephone number for periods when you are required to be contactable by the company.

Standby (reserve) periods are allocated in 28 day blocks, usually 7 fixed days off followed by 21 days of reserve. You can bid for a reserve period or if their are insufficient bidders you may be allocated one based on a points system related to how much reserve you've done and how long you've been in the company. Expect one reserve period every 12-18 months.

[Alpha_India]

Alright- so I suppose, these 21 days of reserve comprise a prior time of notification of one or two hours- or is it more ?

[Carnage Matey!]

The seven days are seven days off, completely free of duty. After that you are contactable from about 1700-2000 each day in which case you will be either given a trip for the next day or put on home standby for a 12 hour period the subsequent day or airport standby (shorthaul only) for 6 hours. On HSB you are on call and must be able to reach the work car park within 2 hours of call if required. You must be given one day free of work in 7 and 2 consecutive days (which must be pre-notified) in 14 but they may be allocated on days off downroute.

[Alpha_India]

Thanks Matey- I really enjoy that compacted style of information in here.
Hope you don´t mind me to bore you with another one: On this last day off on which you´ll have to be contactable from 1700-2000- what minimum rest periode do they have to grant you for a flight on the next day? Or, more specific: How do commuters (that probably spent the last Off-Day at home) get along with a potential early flight the next morning - any critical constraints to observe in that case ?

Thank you very much.

[Carnage Matey!]

On the last off they can get you for pretty much anything that reports after 0600 local I think and they tend to call you at the start of the contactability period. If they've given you a trip its usually allocated by dep -2 so you can check on the work computer from home to see what you've got. As a commuter you'd probably need to be in the UK on the last night off if you are getting a HSB or you might be able to come in early on the first day if given a late report trip.

[Ignition Override]

Are they as old as the flight attendants left with some US airlines? Many of the younger, really good-looking ones got laid off and frequently switched careers or returned to previous jobs. Some of our pilots quit and will never return to the business. This is quite bizarre if one considers the background and work required to find a pilot job with a major US airline :hmm: . In the military, physical risk is an additional, well-known factor with many flying duties.

Many FAs here are too old and out of shape to meet for a free beer and popcorn. And their morale is lower than it has ever been, while the company is quite calloused and typically arrogant about staff morale. Their previous union never created a retirement fund.

They are tired of being around people after flying three, four or even six legs in one long domestic duty period. Almost every day, they change aircraft once or twice at a hub in the same 10-hour (maybe 13-) duty period, with no rest period required by any regs nor provided.

Some of them often check-in by themselves in a hotel; each day they go from one crew to another, in order for the company to have the required staffing for various seating capacities. Maybe a B-737 or DC-9, then an A-320 etc. They are the "add" or extra flight attendants.

[WeLieInTheShadows]

What a bleak picutre you guys paint of LHR.

I would hasten to add that I'm in no doubt that it is the truth. However ETOPS does have the right attitude and break the ice with the ICCM and everything goes a bit better from then.

It is true Cabin Crew can be an odd bunch SOMETIMES. Money of course is a big motivator (especially in somewhere like GVA where a pint is £5).

At LHR people have been around for years as the pay is good and they've probably been to that destination loads of times and to be honest "it's just a job". Not that they don't do it well, it's just the shine of being downroute has worn away long ago.

You really haven't had a LGW perspective on here either and although not a pilot I'd like to put my 10 pence worth in. Most peeps on here seem to be giving you the WWLHR favour of things, and EFLGW/SFLGW is as I would say "a different gravy".

It's a hard working fleet that trawls around europe (at the moment;) ) on 737's that have seen far better days. Always seen as the poor (in more ways that one) relation to all the other fleets, EFLGW as that "Dunkirk Spirit" of working together (pilots and crew) to get things done. We also have a great relationship with most of our pilots (there are always exceptions), because....that's the way it's always been.

The majority or the crew at the moment are a combination of ex EOG, CFE, and DAN AIR people. Companies or subsidiaries that have always has a culture of the crews working and playing TOGETHER. Of course with a smaller fleet where you see of fly with most people at least once of twice a year, things are going to be a bit more cozy as well.

The average age of crew at EFLGW has always been pretty low as the crew generally move to LHR or leave, so we've always had a constant influx of new crew. The Average age of Pursers is of course much lower as crew are eligable of promotion after 2 years, not invited in seniority order as at LHR.

With the onset of the single fleet, again things are changing again. What was a fleet that was a bit down and worked bloody hard without the big rewards, is getting it's chance to play with the rich kids toys.

The fleet is buzzing with excitment and everyone seems to be on a promotion and training course of somesort. Add to this an intake of 700 new recruits (OMG they're young!) who are eager and proud to be working for BA, as well as try out the shandy in the local bars. You can imagine what SFLGW is going to be like come Oct1st.

All routes will have been handed over to SFLGW by Feb 1st aznd I can assure you that the crew WILL NOT BE STAYING IN for at least the first 6 months.

Hope that paints a different picture of life in BA for you. It just depends where you are. Unfortunately people evevitably go to LHR for the cash and of course way of life (which as it would seem of here is not all it's cracked up to be), pilots and crew alike.

See you all in Carribean soon!:eek:

[wiggy]

What a bleak picutre you guys paint of LHR.
I would hasten to add that I'm in no doubt that it is the truth.;)

No it's not the truth, though some of the contributers are painting a dire picture. Frankly, IMHO after 17 years on widebodies at LHR, is that you get out what you put in. If you want to sit on your backside on the Flight deck and grumble about everything guess what, they won't come out "to play". OTOH if you make just a tiny effort to show some spark of interest in something other than Bidline and Pensions you might get some interest in return....heck I even managed to get 12 of a jumbo crew out on an Eastern Seaboard nightstop a few weeks back and we moved on to a room party later, whilst of course repecting all the appropriate bottle and throttle rules:) Now if a knackered old :mad: like me can generate some social goings on anyone can.

Must go, got to get tonights social event organised..we'll all have a beer for you:ok:

[WeLieInTheShadows]

Well Wiggy it's good to see your keeping the dream alive!

I think your post is spot on mate! Many could learn a thing or two from it.:ok:

[Alpha_India]

A bit inappropriate to jump from the current discussion back to blunt salary tables- but I just found a number in www.ppjn.com which quite surprised me:

"Cadet entry base is now £28,160" :hmm:

I was told that the F/O salary for DEPs is approximately £ 44.000 per year with some allowances on top. Anybody able to confirm that this is still up to date for prospective entrants?

[sagaris]

Alpha India, you are correct with those figures.


The 28K figure you mentioned is as far as I'm aware for non TR pilots, as BA pay for this with no bond at all, just a reduced salary. Its about as low as first jet job salaries tend to be, with the very BAish attitude that no bond is required because nobody would want to leave BA! Im not sure how long one would stay on this reduced salary, because you're right, DEFOs start on 44k.

Im sure you know though that the BA expenses package is one of the best in the business, so a low hours chap who rolls in on that cadet salary is still likely to be as well off as those who start off with most other airlines.

Hope this helps.

[Alpha_India]

Thanks sagaris- though I´m not a low hour pilot, I appreciate their expenses package as well as being at least remarkable...

Some other questions that are on my mind at the moment:
- I understood that part time might be hard to get, is it solely based on seniority considerations or would a young father for instance get some extra credit points in the system ?
-How does the BA bidding system work in particular? I heard about a top-ten ranking of bids which the system is to respect in that order if feasible. Can you bid for "avoiding destination XY" as well ?
-There´s apparently a feature for LHR based pilots to get accomodation provided before/after a flight when they accept (?) a flight from another airport like LGW-- is that running on a voluntary basis or can crewplanning freely plan you on that without your previous consent?

Perhaps somebody out there can throw in his knowledge/experience occassionally-- thanks indeed !

[Carnage Matey!]

1. Part time is as rare as rocking horse sh*t! Having kids or dependent parents is about the only way to get it and then only if the company have budgeted for it. A recent tribunal embarrassed management by revealing that even though they had invited bids for part time working they hadn't allocated any budget to it and so nobody was going to get it.

2. At LHR the bidding is in strict seniority order. You can bid for as many trip lines as you want at stage 1 or as many indiviidual trips at stage 2. It's all allocated in seniority order. Not sure how it works at LGW short haul, as they're on Carmen, not Bidline

3. The accomodation is for LHR pilots operating out of LGW. If you want it you have to ask, they'll assume you don't. If you are LHR based then trips out of LGW are rare on the Airbus. They are more common on the 777 but are also popular, hence slightly senior.