Questions about Cathay Pacific & Others

[Captain_Morgan]

Hello everyone,

I am curious about Cathay Pacific and how they are overall as a company to work for in general.

I should also add that I am currently a student and working towards my ATPL here in the US. I am currently attending Embry-Riddle University and UTAH Valley State College concurently, and I will be getting (2) B.S. degrees in aeronautical science, one is theoretical and the other is a practical degree, however both with aviation emphasis. I should be graduating in June 2007, additionally with Honors and a 3.85-3.95 G.P.A

As for flight school I am attending an Ab Initio training program via Rainbow Air Academy in Long Beach, CA. With this program I will get 1500+ hrs of which 500hrs is Multi-Tirbo-Prop time, ofcourse the T-Prop time is completed via Ameriflight which as I know is questionable experience depending on which aircraft you fly, however, I am pulling for the Metroliner. Regardless though I will get my 1500hrs and all the ratings up too my FAA-ATPL. Oh I also failed to mention I will have around 200hrs extra (SIC) Multi T-Prop time in the King Air B200, so I will actually have around 1700+ hours when I start shooting my resume around. Additionally I should have about 10-15hrs Dual Jet time in a L-29... "not really applicable though I guess"

I hope to have everything completed sometime around September-December 2007 and be ready to begin the perils of the application process.

So now for what I am looking for from some of you experts and working pilots here is...."HELP" and ofcourse some good insight to the playing field.

I am quite frankly only interested in working for Foreign Carriers, unless I can get in with Fed-Ex, UPS or ABX.... Why..? Because the US economy and job market is currently very poor, and our economy is not showing any signs of near or longterm improvement. Our air carriers are not treating their pilots as they need to i.e. skilled professionals who's training & skill is comparable to that of doctors. Comparably our payscales both entry & longterm "if you don't get furloughed" are falling behind, taxes are too high, and the cost of living vs. income potential is pathetic. I guess to sum it up very breifly currently in the US there are way to many variables, and our air carrier industry truly needs to be subsidized in which our government can not afford to do, or so they say.

So anyone who can provide me with a good idea of what I can expect and which carriers I should look into that would be a good choice for my level of experience at the time of application, again around 1700hrs. 500-700 T-Prop mostly (SIC), 800-1000hrs (PIC) in your basic GA aircraft, and BS degree with honors.

I am very interested in Cathay Pacific as I have heard many good things about their payscales and benefit packages, additionally Asia is an up and coming economy, also Air Emirates, Lufthansa, KLM, BA, Virgin and any other foreign carriers which could be *reccomended*. Any information or advice will be greatly appreciatted and well noted...!

With my school I also have a good chance of getting hired with EVA Air as my school has a special partnership with them, of course via their cargo division first, so anyone with info about EVA beyond the basic stuff which I know would be great..

Another question I have about Cathay Pacific is should I go for the S/O slot or the F/O slot being I think my experience will qualify for the F/O, but the S/O is in passenger vs. the F/O is cargo, do you still have to move through cargo if you go the S/O route.??

Basically I am looking for a Solid Company with a Good Reputation and Financial Solidity, one that I can obtain any Flight Deck position with S/O or F/O does not matter much "foot in the door", build senority & experience put in my 30 years and retire with a good retirement built-up... At 29yrs old currently I do not want to bounce around 3,4 or 5 carriers I want to find a hangar that I can hang my wings on for the long-haul and progress through the ranks, be given further responsibilities ie trainer, check-pilot etc., build a solid career and be well compensated for my abilities & extra-mile efforts put forth.

Well sorry for the long winded post but I am looking for some good info so I thought I should be thourough in my explenation of my situation and desires. I am a ways off from getting my wings wet, but I want to choose the right direction and be prepared when I do..:cool:

[Carnage Matey!]

Unless you have the unrestricted right to live and work in the European Union (basically an EU passport) you won't get a job with an EU airline. Even if you do you'll realistically be expected to be fluent in the native language if you wanted to work for the likes of LH or KL. You'll also require a European ATPL, an FAA-ATPL won't do. I can't remember what the BA requirements are off the top of my head but realisticaly you won't have a shot at Virgin unless you have in excess of 4000 hours on passenger jets.

I'm not sure you've really done your research if you believe that:

Our air carriers are not treating their pilots as they need to i.e. skilled professionals who's training & skill is comparable to that of doctors. Comparably our payscales both entry & longterm "if you don't get furloughed" are falling behind, taxes are too high, and the cost of living vs. income potential is pathetic.

There are few airlines in Europe who treat their pilots with the level of respect of doctors and whilst you might think that US payscales are falling behind the US majors are still leading the benchmarking tables in terms of gross pay per hour flown, even with the recent pay cuts. Factor in that the cost of living in any developed area of the EU is likely to be comparable or higher than the USA, higher rate income tax is of the order of 40% on top of an additional EU wide sales tax of 17.5% and the fact that in the UK we are paying the equivalent of $7 for a US gallon of gasoline and the picture doesn't look so rosy over here.

Can't help you with any information on Cathay but I'm sure there'll be someone along soon who can.

[Trentino]

Hi Captain

Its great to have dreams and im not shooting them down..
just take into consideration these things...

Friends of mine from Riddle, 23yr old captains,yes 23, with thousands of hours
applying to CX or SQ etc.. with the usual reply of 'nah we dont need you'

Friends of mine with thousands of hours and getting a CX interview only to get it and be shot waay down cause they couldnt answer basic questions bout monsoons and aerodynamics which schools in the U.S skip over (get handling the big jets to make up for Riddles oversights)

Your best bet is to get your CFI, get a few thousand hours TT and 100-200 multi time, learn how to control an airplane then apply to the myriad of underpaying regionals in the U.S

Getting a regional job is way more likely to happen than CX, it will also teach you how to bleed and suffer so that when you DO get that 747-400 job
you are gonna appreciate.

but hell if YOU can pull off getting CX good for you...you'll be a miserable kid doing it though....

[Dan Winterland]

Lots of info about CX on the Fragrant Harbour forum. (Hong Kong means Fragrant Harbour in Cantonense BTW). However, it sounds you are a long way short of experience at this stage.

[F900EX]

Hey Captain Morgan...

Dont worry about all of that nonsense from those naysayers....

I have friends who have done exceptionally well with a lessor background than yours. Frankly I believe the replies to your request for information are from cynics who dont do the industry any favours.

Good luck and remember that you can achieve far more with a positive attitude than a negative one.

Michael

[Captain_Morgan]

:ugh: Carnage I appreciate your input regarding the EU and yes I do know it is very difficult to obtain working rights in Europe. As I have already been down that avenue when I obtained my live/work visa for Spain, and let me just confirm what you have said; basically unless you have large cash reserves, a sponsor or requesting company/school, a clean background, perfect medical history, oh in addition to full medical coverage...And well a myriad of other hoops to jump through you are not likely to gain acceptance... Did I mention it takes around 12-18 months to process? Yes I know the drill.. Luckily during this formal debacle I also realized that an immigration attorney who charges up the wazoo can be a big help and cut the time and process in half...

But I am not really too concerned with these type of issues my concern is with the working conditions and hiring processes of the foreign carriers. I do completely understand the need to convert my FAA ATPL and other ratings to the JAA system, and I do understand it can cost around 6-10K depending, and take quite a bit of time and effort. Unless we get the open skies agreements hammered out, which we have been trying for some 15+ years, wont get my hopes up on that. But what you fail to realize is that I have already considered all of this and I am more than willing to tackle these obstacles...

As for your comments about the US market, yes it is true that Senior Crew members are still paid quite well; but how many are happy and enjoy a feeling of security? Does the US market still demand quality service and take pride in its air carrier industry? Or do consumers demand Low Prices only, which drives carriers to compete on price alone forcing pay cuts, loss of benefits, de-unionizing, aging aircraft, smaller aircraft fleets etc. etc. Not to mention that as a whole our country is steaming toward an economic landslide the effects of which most cannot even imagine yet. Basically we are getting our rears handed to us by the global marketplace, and this trend will only grow larger. It is a very unfortunate that our country has succumb to what I call the "Wal-Mart Syndrome" but lets face the facts, especially our air carriers Delta, Continental, United, American, America West, all have major financial problems and failing business models. The restructuring of our market and consumer demand for poor service & cheap fares is creating a whirlwind within our aviation marketplace. Carriers like Southwest, Jet Blue, and Frontier are doing ok and yes pay is not bad, but its not great, and the aircraft they fly are just a small step up from the regionals, and not having international landing rights or the larger aircraft where is the potential for growth. Now I will say these companies do have some incredible management teams especially Southwest, and I do know that Southwest is trying to expand its service markets in the future... But quite frankly the companies themselves be it United, Delta or Southwest are not the problem many of these companies have superb management and excellent employees. The problem is the US consumer and more specifically our economic marketplace, as regionals and commuters are thriving growing their share of the market the legacy carriers are trying to compete honestly in a marketplace in which they are not geared to do so costs of operation are simply to high, and demand for quality service to low. So yes if I saw something different than these facts within our industry I might consider domestic carriers. However, currently where does an entry-level pilot start the regionals, and with a starting pay between 20-36K that is pathetic, sorry to all who are suffering this insulting pay but that’s exactly what it is. You spend 50K-60K attending college to get your Bachelors, and an additional 40-50K getting all your flight ratings not to mention time, and then you serve the aviation community for another year providing the best training you can to fellow pilots and these days you are lucky to be paid as many Ab Initio programs expect volunteer CFI's in exchange for time building. Then once you have your 1000-1500 hrs you get a position starting at around 30K, in most US cities you will still need food stamps to survive. Sure you may only have to put in a couple years time until you move up, but moving up I believe is only going to be a euphemism in the future, as again the trend is lowering pay scales, cutting benefits and de-unionizing what do our currently successful airlines have in common these previously mentioned facts. Lets face it our air carrier industry is not what it was 10-15yrs ago, and I do not foresee the future getting any better. Quite frankly our airlines need government subsidy to survive and thrive, as they once did be it wasteful maybe but how much money do we waste on issues outside the country, which do not provide any redistribution of funds within our nations borders. At least if our airlines where subsidized and able to provide large incomes as they did in the past you are talking numerous thousands of highly paid citizens spending those incomes within our country, a good thing right.

Well again as you can see I have a very formed opinion of our marketplace, and as usual I have allot to say. Honestly though I have a deep rooted love for aviation and its one that I have harbored since I was quite young. But until the last couple years I have worked in Real Estate and Finance for 6yrs until I decided around 2yrs ago to pursue my dreams of flying. So I do not mean to sound so negative towards our nations carriers its just that I see the writing on the wall and its bright red. We will see further consolidation of our legacy carriers flooding the market with pilot who have tons more experience than myself and we will most likely continue to see further growth and domination of our markets by the regional and commuters. Additionally if they ever straighten out the VLJ platform then prepared to become aerial taxi drivers with the meter running... This factor will only provide for the continued decline of what truly is a highly skilled professional job and one, which requires constant learning and improvement, just like a doctor. As I mentioned it really is a social problem and not one that the air carriers have control over as I mentioned the US consumer is plagued by the "Wal-Mart Syndrome"

I do see things as being more positive internationally as economies are beginning to thrive elsewhere especially within Asia. Most foreign countries still take great pride in their air carriers and provide some governmental means of support even Europe through Airbus subsidies, govt. loans and the like. But mainly worth mentioning is the reduced level of competition; granted many other countries have a smaller marketplace, but how many are beginning to expand and grow? Also many foreign carriers are still profitable and quite large, and most regional service are forming internally from within these large companies, and only to supplement quality non-stop services in the short haul markets, not replace it with no-frills multi-leg type service which we have grow accustom too here. I believe we might even see if open skies ever works out foreign ownership of our legacy carriers currently prohibited by law due to national defense reasons, but for how long when our carriers can no longer support themselves and remain operational, who is going to provide international service.

To finalize what I have said here I would just like to ask a question. Within our current domestic carriers; what company offers an entry level S/O position starting salary $44,000.00-$49,000.00 with an additional housing allowance of $36,000-$44,000.00, educational allowance for your children, full medical, life causality and loss of license pay for 60 months and 15.5% of your income a year company paid into a Provident Fund. At current I do not know of any please advice me if you do. However, currently this is a package, which is offered by Cathay Pacific. Sure you have to live in Hong Kong and sure the climb up the ladder may be long and grueling but the pay continues to jump 70-90 F/O the 100+ SF/O then 150+ CPT, and additionally you can earn up to an additional 100K+ housing allowance. Sure Hong Kong is expensive but so is New York, California, Boston, Chicago, or Dallas etc etc I do not see any US companies offering to pay for your housing expenses or even increasing salaries due to inflation actually quite the opposite...

Oh and regarding fuel cost of $7 a gallon again you are 100% correct, but you also failed to mention that overseas they have mass-transit systems, which are accessible, efficient, and nice; not overrun by vagrants and thugs.

So all with this in mind providing UPS, FED-EX or ABX doesn't come knocking at my door I will probably be flying overseas...Providing I can make the cut...Being I heard the last time UPS was hiring for several positions they had 8000 applicants, well lets just say I don't see them lining up for me yet...

Anyways Thanks For Your Thoughts, and these are just mine I do not mean any harm; I am just trying to express what I think.

Anyone who can add to or enlighten my beliefs in anyway is welcome too, but I really wish to get some good insight from someone who is working internationally from the US...

[Captain_Morgan]

Trentino,

Hey thanks for the vote of confidence...! What do you mean the aviation community is competitive..? Ok sorry I had to be a smart-azz for a minute.

But yes I know experience is everything, however, I am going to teach for around a year and I will have around 1700hrs TT & my ATPL when applying, 600-700 Heavy-Multi-T-Prop... I have also considered buying a Seneca II and flying the ba-jesus out of it in my off time, to build Multi-Pic..

Although one thing I must say is that with age comes character and experience and along with that comes a better chance of landing a job. I am 29yrs old currently and honestly I could not imagine interviewing for a pilot position when I was 23..Simply put most 23yr old pilots are just not ready for the big leagues..Well and neither am I yet, based on my current experience. However, I am flying 5 days a week out of Long Beach airport one of the busiest class Delta airports and I routinely fly in Charlie and Bravo airspace, within the Los Angeles basin... So I am getting a very good experience within some of the busiest airspace in the world. And talking to Socal I get to listen and learn all the time...

As for your buddy who did not make the grade, I am sure he is probably a better pilot than I am currently, and most likely a great pilot overall. However, he is a little young which I think these guys really consider, especially when you are American and young, bad combination if you know what I mean. Also if he missed some weather stuff, especially regarding typhoons or monsoons a weather occurrence, which happens quickly and is common in the Pacific Rim, well then yeah I can see why he might not of cut it. But tell him not to give up jump back on the saddle and keep trying..!! Its worth it no..?

Oh thanks for the tip on the book I will definitely pick it up I love to read, and I am trying to divest as much information as I can in order to be as close to the best as I can... But hey we are all pilots here and being perfectionist is in all of our natures..!!

Thanks Again
CPTN_Morgan

[Captain_Morgan]

F900EX... Thanks, and you are 125% right-on the money my friend, positive attitude conveys into everything you do and everything you are in life..!! The glass is definately half full over here, and challenges are only things which I have not overcome YET..!!! And everything in life is a learning experience which can be benefited from, its what you take from experience that counts the most..!

But someone always has to be a cynic....:ugh:

Thanks For the Positive Reply..!!!!
:) :) :) :) :) :) :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:

[777300ER]

Captain,

With all due respect, I think you are planning a little too much at this stage. Your well thought out posts tell me that you will likely have no trouble succeeding in your career. To plan everything out to the extent you are however will likely be a waste of time. Since I started out in aviation, I have been furloughed four times and gone through 2 bankruptcies. The airline that I dreamed of flying for before starting out is long gone. Things change in this business and they change fast. In the course of building your experience you will meet a great deal of very wise people along the way. As you talk to more people and build up your own experience level you may very well change your mind about where you want to be. Some of the happiest pilots I know decided to forget about the airlines and stay in the corporate world. At the end of the day it's all up to you.

To answer your question about Cathay Pacific, with the 1700hrs that you say you'll have when you finish your program, you will be nowhere near the experience level required to join as a F/O. You will even be far from the level required to join on the Passenger fleet as an S/O. Currently many of the joining S/Os have 1000s of hours of jet experience. Don't pay too much attention to the minimum requirements posted on the CX website as they are far lower than the actual experience level sought.

Good luck with your career.

[SIC]

Went for my CX final interview recently - this is for SO.

Out of the 15 guys there only two were not currently flying jets. 3 Were 747 co pilots. one MD11. Quite a few on 737, RJ, Fokker etc. The prop guys were on Dash 8. So to underline what was said above - its a long way and you planning too much too soon. That said though there is opportunity everywhere - good luck. I only started my comm at 26 and was in a jet less than three years later - due to HARD work and some luck - and you will be too cause at 29 you have the commitment and maturity the 23 year olds dont have!

[zerozero]

<<As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.>>

:8

[Captain_Morgan]

SIC, thanks for the info & I appreciate your comments...

Yeah I know that it seems you must have more experience to get to where you want to be in this industry..Honestly I wish these companies would just publish their actual preferred hiring minimums and most of all that the schools would be more realistic when trying to get your money and just tell you straight that you will need to bleed from the knuckles for a while...If you know what I mean... I have no problem working hard and my commitment level is 110% I would just like to get in somewhere early where I can commit myself & through hard work and tenacity build my career..!

On another note when you interviewed recently with CX, did you happen to catch where the 747 or MD11 co-pilot guys that where interviewing with you came from..? I have heard that EVA Air has a fairly good transfer over rate to CX do you or anyone else know if this is correct..? Reason I am asking is that my school does positively have a special partnership arranged with EVA Air, and the graduates from our PTIP program which I am in are preferred hires over at EVA, that is of course if you make the cut... It seems like a good building block Opp being they take you in as F/O for their cargo unit on either the MD11 or 747; however, they do require you to sign a 4yr contract. EVA seems like a pretty good company, but the pay & benefits are much better at CX, and I have heard that allot of EVA pilots go to CX after their contracts are up; so I was just curious if there is any truth behind that...

I am pretty confident that I can get on-board at EVA once my training is complete, their chief pilot stops by our school Simi-often and we are actually currently training a certain high level employee of the company to fly as well... Not to mention all of our advertisements now have our partnership with them highlighted, so I think I am ok talking about it as it was kind of hush hush before...Anyways any thoughts on this would be great...:ok: :ok:

Thanks
CPTN Morgan

[ZAGORFLY]

I have met pilots that had the wish to leave EVA.. I have met Super pilots that have worked 10 years as FO with 9000 ours that went trough an amazing stress command course but succeeded to be a proud and super prepared CX Captain.
I have read about CX pilot been able to fly back a 747 without instruments!
Dear young pilot you have a tremendous advantage over many: you are young and good. Don't speculate and think on money and pursue your career dream at aiming the best. AT CX they are extremely serious professionals from the tail galley to the front airborne office. Plus, there is Dragon AIR too...!

[Touch'n'oops]

Went for my CX final interview recently - this is for SO.
at 29 you have the commitment and maturity the 23 year olds dont have!
SIC: If this is your mentality then I would be surprised if you made Cathay.
Many of us here realise there is a lot more to a person than age. I have flown with 23 year olds who act like 29 AND vice versa!!!
"Never judge a book by its cover!" e.g. No stereo-typing please!

[Jetdriver]

That was nearly 5 months ago, its lost its impetus.