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View Full Version : A warm end to August?


cavortingcheetah
9th Aug 2006, 13:20
Dear Editors,
The following post has little directly to do with aviation, although it may raise matters that might appear latter in the Military Flight Forum.
I have taken the liberty of quoting from a broadcast made by the leader of Hezbollah. I should just point out that I in no way agree with nor support his attitude. Frankly; I find it quite frightening.

:hmm:

A little diplomatic background.

Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, labours under a misapprehension.
In an Iranian TV interview on 23rd July he claimed that 'England was the founder of this sinister regime (Israel) and, like America, was an accomplice to all its crimes.
This ignores the rather salient fact that Britain actually reneged on its promise to found a Jewish home in Palestine. Britain in fact abstained on the UN vote on establishing Israel. The country that swung it for the Jews was the Soviet Union. The irony of this is, of course, that the object of Ahmadinejad's wrath should be his patron, Vladimir Putin.

Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah's rather able and charismatic commander
had this little pearl of wisdom to throw out the other day:

"If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in pysche, mind, idealogy and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice I do not say the Israeli."

This last phrase is rather telling, is it not? I fear that Britain (but not perhaps the USA) may be in danger of missing the big picture altogether. The fact that hatred of Israel is but a proxy for the Islamists' hatred of the Jews.

Let me remind fellow Pprunists that Hezbollah is primarily Shia whilst Al Queda is Sunni. The differences between the two sects, for want of a better word, are rather more profound than that between ancient Protestant and old Roman Catholic. They don't usually interrelate too well.
According to Shia tradition, legitimate Islamic rule can only be established following the reappearance of the Twelfth Iman. Ahmadinejad is driven by a desire to bring about this reappearance through the promotion of Armageddon. The night before 22 August is the evening when Mohammed is said to have ascended to heaven from Temple Mount, when a 'great light lit up the night sky over Jerusalem'. The date on which Ahmadinejad has said he will respond to the EU's ultimatum over his nuclear programme is 22 August!:eek: (Several times perchance)?

airship
9th Aug 2006, 13:31
Well, there are far too many religious nutters on both sides for comfort IMHO. Need one remind everyone who assassinated Rabin...?!

Even more worrying, one side wants the bomb, the other already has it (actually, lots of them): Isn't there a reference to Armageddon in The Book of Revelation too and what's an antichrist exactly?! :uhoh:

colmac747
9th Aug 2006, 13:40
The night before 22 August is the evening when Mohammed is said to have ascended to heaven from Temple Mount, when a 'great light lit up the night sky over Jerusalem'. The date on which Ahmadinejad has said he will respond to the EU's ultimatum over his nuclear programme is 22 August!

:eek: :{


.

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 14:39
Do you really think Israel will use its nuclear weapons? And can somebody explain to me how this conflict in the Middle East could escalate to a global conflict - Armageddon as it has been described here?

You mention the August 22nd, just what do you suggest will happen……

bigfatsweatysock
9th Aug 2006, 14:50
How about if either Iran or Syria become involved?

Just for fun let's say Israel continues to bomb the shit out of Beirut and the Lebanese government collapses. Hezbollah continue to fire missiles into Israel, so Israel goes for the full blown land invasion, scorched earth policy and all. Syria complains to the UN, but the US and UK veto any moves in the Security Council. Syria announce it is sending humanitarian aid by convoy into Lebanon. Israel suspects it is a cover for military equipment and bombs it. Syrian Army sends troops to protect next convoy, IAF bombs it and kills Syrian soldiers. Syrian government send troops back into Southern Lebanon, Iran fires Shahb-4 missiles at Israel...

You can now derive whatever ending you like from this scenario.

colmac747
9th Aug 2006, 14:51
This is hypothetically how a global conflict could occur:hmm:

Israel, by mistake, drops a bomb in the very border of Syria. Syria already has said it is ready to defend itself. It does. Iran see fit to support Syria who inturn all support Hizbollah's cause.

The USA will self evidently support Israel, and Britain being a great follower will naturally support those two countries.


Hmmm. Is that all it would take? Or am i seriously deluded?

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 14:58
I strongly believe that the nuclear superpowers of the world will not become drawn into a nuclear exchange. The world stepped back from the brink during the cold war, and a lesson was learned. I think this conflict, however messy it becomes, will be confined to that region. Just my opinion.

bigfatsweatysock
9th Aug 2006, 15:02
The memories of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are becoming dimmed. Pakistan has nuclear weapons and has indicated it will use them if there is ever war between herself and India. Israel has also indicated it will used nuclear weapons if she feels threatend enough. It is widely reported that Israel had two bombs in 1967, and that Prime Minister Eshkol ordered them armed in Israel's first nuclear alert during the Six-Day War. It is also reported that, fearing defeat in the October 1973 Yom Kippur War, the Israelis assembled 13 twenty-kiloton atomic bombs. Do you think Tel Aviv will ask permission from Washington before using such weapons?

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 15:09
With the influence of the USA, I would not think Israel would be the initiator of a nuclear exchange. Retaliating is, of course, a different matter entirely. Even if a nuclear exchange occurred, why would it escalate beyond the region. Are you suggesting The USA, Britain, Russia, France, China will directly retaliate with their nuclear arsenals?

bigfatsweatysock
9th Aug 2006, 15:16
Countries will be forced into taking sides.

Let's say that instant sunshine and glass occurs in Lebanon/Iran/Syria. What if...

China decides to make use of the distraction and takes back Taiwan?

PRNK siezes the moment to invade South Korea?

Iran makes moves on Southern Iraq while Turkey moves into the Kurdish areas of Northern Iraq?

What if a combination of all three scenarios occur?

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 15:25
Oh now I think we're letting our imaginations run away a little. I think in today's society, the superpowers will all seek a peaceful resolution.

Granted, if a combination of the above occurs - the human race is in deep :mad:

woolyalan
9th Aug 2006, 15:30
Thankyou guys, i wont sleep for weeks :{

I spose every generation needs it major wars, this is probably ours. If everyone remembers, iran has said before "Israel should be wiped off the map" from that id say they want to get involved

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 15:32
In reality, it is Israel who has the capability to wipe Iran off the map. Folk in Iran should remember that small fact.

bigfatsweatysock
9th Aug 2006, 15:34
Oh now I think we're letting our imaginations run away a little.

In August 2001 you could have said the same thing about terrorists flying aeroplanes into the WTC and the Pentagon. The scenarios I describe are nothing more than that, but still plausable.

The PRNK is probably the most dangerous of all, but Iran has a special quality to be a very scary opponent. The China-Taiwan thing has been bubbling away for years, There is nothing stopping China from trying to stamp its foot and showing its teeth as the replacement superpower to the USSR. I remember a chinese general recently said that China would sacrifce a certain amount of cities on its western seaboard should war breakout. I cannot remember the context of the quote, but indocative of the state of mind in the military mind of the chinese army maybe?

As for being tooled with nuclear weapons, who knows what deals have been done amongst the Axis of Evil. There have been technology transfers between Iran and PRNK before.

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 15:40
Agreed, no one would have believed 9/11 was plausible. Also, I agree the North Korean situation is one of the more dangerous of the stand-offs.

In the nuclear world, statements like that of the Chinese General are short sighted. Certain opposition (naming no names) have the capability to wipe China off the map!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_nuclear_weapons

Check out USA and Russia against other powers.

bigfatsweatysock
9th Aug 2006, 15:49
From your link easyPilot:

Saudi Arabia - In 2003 members of the government stated that due to the worsening relations with the USA, Saudi Arabia was being forced to consider the development of nuclear weapons. However, so far they have denied that they are making any attempt to produce them. It has been rumored that Pakistan has transferred several nuclear weapons to Saudi Arabia, but this is unconfirmed. In March 2006 the German magazine Cicero reported that Saudi Arabia had since 2003 received assistance from Pakistan to acquire nuclear missiles and warheads. Satellite photos allegedly reveal an underground city and nuclear silos with Ghauri rockets south of the capital Riyadh. Pakistan has denied aiding Saudi Arabia in any nuclear ambitions.


Where did all those 9/11 terrorists come from again?

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 15:55
For sure, nobody can know for sure what underhanded nuclear dealings have gone on. But now, with regard to 9/11, we're talking terrorists here - not nations. This initial thread was leaning towards WWIII and the annihilation of mankind - not terrorism.

Edited to change from being representative of hay fever suffers to the end of life itself. LOL!!

tilewood
9th Aug 2006, 16:22
This initial thread was leaning towards WWIII and the inhalation of mankind - not terrorism.


Don't anyone breath in, especially if you suffer from hay fever!! :p

woolyalan
9th Aug 2006, 16:24
The inhalation of mankind sounds kinda scary though, i bet the survivors will be looking forward to the exhalation of mankind :}

The thought that Iran will destroy Israel on the 22nd August is kinda scary though.

All we can do really is shrug it off as speculation and the like as easyPilot says.

Also, take a look at this:
http://www.exitmundi.nl/exitmundi.htm
This site may have already been posted somewhere, but ive forgotten.

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 16:27
Don't anyone breath in, especially if you suffer from hay fever!! :p

I've spent too long on here :}

Sod it - Everyone NUKE Everyone!

tilewood
9th Aug 2006, 16:45
Everyone NUKE Everyone!

I think that could be the title of the George Bush TV game show when he
leaves office!! :ok:

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 16:46
Anyway no need to panic, you know who will save the day....

America...
America...
America, :mad: YEAH!
Coming again, to save the mother ******* day yeah,
America, :mad: YEAH!
Freedom is the only way yeah,
Terrorist your game is through cause now you have to answer too,
America, :mad: YEAH!
So lick my butt, and suck on my balls,
America, :mad: YEAH!
What you going to do when we come for you now,
it’s the dream that we all share; it’s the hope for tomorrow

:mad: YEAH!

McDonalds, :mad: YEAH!
Wal-Mart, :mad: YEAH!
The Gap, :mad: YEAH!
Baseball, :mad: YEAH!
NFL, :mad: , YEAH!
Rock and roll, :mad: YEAH!
The Internet, :mad: YEAH!
Slavery, :mad: YEAH!

:mad: YEAH!

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 17:22
Starbucks, :mad: YEAH!
Disney world, :mad: YEAH!
Porno, :mad: YEAH!
Valium, :mad: YEAH!
Reeboks, :mad: YEAH!
Fake Tits, :mad: YEAH!
Sushi, :mad: YEAH!
Taco Bell, :mad: YEAH!
Rodeos, :mad: YEAH!
Bed bath and beyond (:mad: yeah, :mad: yeah)

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 17:24
Liberty, :mad: YEAH!
White Slips, :mad: YEAH!
The Alamo, :mad: YEAH!
Band-aids, :mad: YEAH!
Las Vegas, :mad: YEAH!
Christmas, :mad: YEAH!
Immigrants, :mad: YEAH!
Popeye, :mad: YEAH!
Demarcates, :mad: YEAH!
Republicans (republicans)
(:mad: yeah, :mad: yeah)
Sportsmanship
Books

As long as we're on their side, we'll be alright!

woolyalan
9th Aug 2006, 17:46
Im quite impressed, but no doubt something will go wrong and the headlines will be:

"Once again Team America has :mad: off the entire world"

cavortingcheetah
9th Aug 2006, 18:28
:hmm:

The theology is vastly complex but perhaps it is unlikely that one such as the Iranian president would concern himself overly with anything so mundane as WWIII (not111!!!) and the annihilation of mankind when the reward is a world of peace and justice under the rule of Islam. A state of affairs incidentally, which must include Christians. The return of the Twelfth Iman or Mahdi will be followed by the return of Jesus, who will pray behind him. These two will respectively correct unjust practices in both Islam and Christianity which implies that JC will renounce his role as the son of God. ( Wonder what the Da Vinci Code might make of that?)
Muslim theology allows for a metaphysical alliance between Muslim and Christian that will give rise to a rather more perfect world than the one in which we now find ourselves. Dare I say it, a world in which the thirteenth tribe will play no part. There exists therefore a hugely powerful force at work to create a very catastrophic set of circumstances which, whilst it may on a material plane lead perfectly coincidentally to a world conflagration, will have no effect on the theological belief that the role of the Mahdi is to lead the world from the chaos into which it has descended.
It is thus perhaps something of a slight worry that Ahmadinejad has declared that he will give his nuclear response to the EU on the anniversary of Mohammed's assent to occultation at Jerusalem. :ouch:

Jolly serious old sort of an afternoon. What!:D
Must read 'Tom Brown's Schooldays' again!

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 18:32
Oh well, better make the most of what short time I have left....

...coat, hat, wallet, off to the pub!

tilewood
9th Aug 2006, 18:56
Oh well, better make the most of what short time I have left....
...coat, hat, wallet, off to the pub!

Mine's a large one...........but that's another thread!! :p

con-pilot
9th Aug 2006, 19:02
I think he rather needs a large one, (:mad: YEAH!):p

AMF
9th Aug 2006, 21:58
I'd say y'all are getting too paranoid re WW3.

You do realize of course that from the moment Israel was created, there have been those swearing to annihalate it?....and have tried?

Not that I care, incidently...

But every decade...the 40's, 50's,60's,70's,80's, 90's, and now in yet again, there is some sort of border war going on.

Europe cared for awhile, mainly due to the guilt of Europeans persecuting and slaughtering millions of Jews, not just during WW2 although that was it's culmination, but in the preceding centuries in most Euro countries. Frankly, part of creating Israel for the Jews had to do with getting them off the continent.

Britain of course had their main oil interests in Iraq, having claimed it after WW1, and fought for it in WW2, and building the oil pipeline across Transjordan and Palestine, with it's terminus being the port in Haifa. They certainly wanted to appease the Zionists, whom they had promised back in 1917 to create a country for them (which was never forgotten by those pesky Zionists, incidently), and were involved by then in Blowing British interests up as a reminder of their promise they seemed not to be keeping in 1946.

Americans felt sorry for Israel with lots of Jews living there, and of course Israel became a thorn in the side of the Soviets, who were busy casting their influence into Egypt, Syria, Yemen and Iraq, and supplying them all with mucho arms and support. Israel was a nice little puppet for us, but personally, I've always been a proponent of cutting the strings the day the Cold War was over, and let them sink or swim. They're big boys now.

Of course there's always that little detail about them having Nukes, but all their neighbours know that too. After all, the French built their nuke plant in the Negev that processed and fed it's capability. Just like they built one for Hussein who was very pleased, before the Iraeliis let their displeasure be known one sunday morning with a few bombs. After that he contented himself with dreaming and building "Supercannons" while trying to extend his Greater Pan-arabia into Iran and, of course, Kuwait.

Ah yes, the French. When they weren't building reactors for opposing, belligerent nations conveniently located far from their own back yard, they were (as usual) diddling around in Lebanon and Syria doing.....well, nothing to prevent them from being kicked out. Mainly however, they were occupied...trying vainly to hold onto their former colonies in French Indochina (their wealthiest) and Algeria. Meanwhile, the French rape of their colonies in Africa continued, occasionally "letting go", but really just supporting whatever Francophile tinpot was arising. Algeria kicked them out of course...then followed right to the suburbs of Paris and Marsailles, etc.

So in other words, this is nothing new. In fact, if you substitute "PLO" for "Hezbellah", it's 1979 all over again.

Messy?...sure. WW3....nope. Not even close. Not even if a few small-yield nukes eventually get tossed about and air-mail delivery-ed to a few zip codes in the Southwest Asian/Arabian neighbourhood. No way will the world step up to annihalation over yet another border conflagration over-hyped in proportion by the media. This is not to say nobody will get vaporized..but will the major global players get into an thermonuclear slug-fest with each other, and end the world? Nah.

Been there, done this. Every time a border war gets going over there and the sides line up, someone is talking about Armageddon. It ain't gonna happen, so you can all rest easy tonight.

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 22:20
I think he rather needs a large one, (:mad: YEAH!):p

Had my large one - but that's another another story. The pub wasn't too bad either. :D

scruggs
9th Aug 2006, 22:26
Every time a border war gets going over there and the sides line up, someone is talking about Armageddon. It ain't gonna happen, so you can all rest easy tonight.

Agree 100%.

G-CPTN
9th Aug 2006, 23:42
Every time a border war gets going over there and the sides line up, someone is talking about Armageddon. It ain't gonna happen, so you can all rest easy tonight.
:{ And I've got my bag packed (well, I know where my toothbrush is . . .)

I'm ready to go . . .

con-pilot
10th Aug 2006, 00:56
G-CPTN, well then come to Oklahoma, we've had our bomb.

And I've got me own pub in me house I do!:ok:

er340790
10th Aug 2006, 01:10
"I remember a chinese general recently said that China would sacrifce a certain amount of cities on its western seaboard should war breakout."

Hmmm....... Maybe honourable general should consult weliable atlas first.

Krystal n chips
10th Aug 2006, 06:20
Hmmmm ! As I have a concrete underground air raid shelter ( non of yer common as muck Anderson types here thank you :p ) in my back garden I will be OK. However, being a genderous sort may I just say it has a capacity for 6 people---so that's me and er, ( no preference for hair colours please note ) 5 members of the opposite sex ---purely to ensure survival of the species after Armageddon you understand :E ---Wot ?:confused:

woolyalan
10th Aug 2006, 07:32
Well, if we add this to whats happend today:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=238370

The world is a real :mad: up place!

I thought when Jesus appears after the 12th Iman he denounces christianity and tells everyone to convert to islam :eek:

Lon More
10th Aug 2006, 09:27
Well it seems to be heating up again in the UK
Allegedly some years ago an Arab sheik was visiting the studio where Star Treck was being recorded.
He said that it was strange that most ethnic groups were represented but no Arabs. The answer he received was that it was because the series was set in the future.

woolyalan
10th Aug 2006, 09:56
What an answer!! :D

And people wonder why western civilization is hated by a large portion of the world!