Working at Christmas

[Boing7117]

I was wondering if any experienced pilots could shed some light on the frequency of working at Christmas?

I'm extremely excited about starting my flying career in the next few months, but like any job, there's always something you'd rather not have in your job description - for me - working at Christmas is off-putting, although not a show-stopper.

How does it work in terms of say, booking your leave around the christmas period, getting one of your colleagues to work your shifts or slipping a few quid to the people who schedule the rotas?

I don't have a wife and kids just yet - but in 7-10 years that's very likely to change.

Just wondering what the experience is out there of this situation and any advice on offer?

[PRNAV1]

seniority is everything...! 7-10yrs down the line you should be senior enoughto pick and choose, untill you become a capt at least then it's back to square 1 and the proccess starts all over again.

It's the cycle of life....:)

[411A]

Indeed senority rules, in most (but not all) airlines.
OTOH, someone has to fly over the Christmas/New Year holiday, why shouldn't it be the junior guys?
Personally, I have always agreed to fly over holidays in order to have more productive time off, and I was quite senior at a few airlines where I have worked.
Different strokes for different folks.

[Rainboe]

How does it work in terms of say, booking your leave around the christmas period, getting one of your colleagues to work your shifts or slipping a few quid to the people who schedule the rotas?

You are an optimist, No? 1- virtually impossible. 2- you must be joking. 3-same answer as 2.

There are occasionally people who come up here saying 'I'm a strict Jew, is it possible for me to be an airline pilot but not work Saturdays/Fridays (or whatever)?'. In short, they are wondering whether they can get other people to carry their load on the most popular days off instead of them. The answer is....go work in a Bank then! If you are not willing to be a man, and do your share of Christmases, Easters, Bank Holidays away, miss Carol concerts, graduations, funerals, weddings (hopefully your own) etc, then think carefully about signing on the doted line. You have no right to expect other people to carry your load for you.

[GlueBall]

Do you still believe in Santa Claus...? :D

[alatnariver]

"... slipping a few quid to the people who schedule the rotas?" :*
Sounds to me like a form of corruption. I am sure you will find people like this and imho people who are looking for "deals" like this are open for "deals" like this as well. For me this is a nogo := ! And I doubt your professionalism. :yuk:

[Looooong haul]

This must be a wind up....

But if serious go work in the civil service, they will love you :ugh:

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

May I be so bold as to suggest that someone here is plotting out the wrong career path.
With such an attitude; surely a future in trainee management is indicated.
Perhaps with one of the rather nastier airlines. Nominations?:\

[Seat1APlease]

If you fly shorthaul then you will find that many, if not all, flights are cancelled on Christmas day itself, but that will still leave some crew overseas if your airline has nightstops. Longhaul carries on as usual.
If on the other hand you want a job with leave in the school holidays, weekends off to take the kids to football matches, and shifts that means you get to see the children before bed, then I suggest you sue your careers advisor for whatever your training has cost you, and try something else. :)

[Boing7117]

hey folks

a little less hassle please. I'm asking a question about the working life of a pilot at Christmas time. That is, the 1 day of the year out the 365 that I'd rather be at home (like many of you I expect). I wasn't asking to be judged on my professionalism or my choice of career.

My suggestion regarding 'back-handers' was intended as a bit of humour.

Clearly some of you guys spend too much time in aeroplanes.

[Kestrel_909]

Clearly some of you guys spend too much time in aeroplanes.

Comes as part of the job, I suspect!

[Schnowzer]

Boing,

If you want Christmas Day off, join a muslim airline with few christian ex-pats. Unless Ramadan coincides with Chrimbo, you'll be in the fridge.:ok:

[Boing7117]

Okay then, let's make this post a little more interesting.....

I wonder how many Muslim pilots don't work during Eed?

I wonder how many Hindu pilots don't work during Diwali?

I wonder how many Catholic pilots don't work on Christmas Day and/or Easter Sunday?

The point I'm trying to make here is that working any time throughout the year is absolutely fine - but a religious festival / ocassion - surely airline management have some sympathy / leniency?

[silverhawk]

Position- Elf
Base -North Pole
Send CVs by email only to [email protected]

Previous unsuccessful applicants may also apply due to worldwide shortage of experienced toymakers caused by the short-sighted management practice of withdrawing elf appreticeships.

[dryyoureyes]

Boing - bet you wish you had never asked the question!

I used to think that among aircrew the "no such thing as a silly question" adage would have cut you some slack but clearly you've ruffled some feathers!

You'll get your share of time off the same as everyone else - you may have to accept that initially you'll be at the back of a queue but hopefully that seems logical?

I'm hoping to start with a company in the Autumn and will not be banking on cooking Xmas dinner this year for the wife despite having had the last 2 festive seasons messed about.

It's a life style choice mate but how much you can influence your shifts can only get better the longer you stick at it. Pretty straightforward really and not something I would recommend sounding off about during your first week (or year for that matter) with a company. :ok:

[Boing7117]

Cheers dryyoureyes!

Being at the back of the queue as a newbie seems totally logical and I quite accept it.

You're right - it's a lifestyle choice, it's the way it's always been and the way it'll probably always will be.

And of course I wouldn't start sounding off about the situation that exists as a new joiner. You just get your head down and get on with it.

After all, that wouldn't be very professional would it alatnariver?

[cavortingcheetah]

:)
A Christmas Tale.
No matter with whom one flies, unless, perhaps, in a position of some seniority; you will never be able to get Chistmas off to the extent that you can acually plan for it. Even if you are rostered off on Christmas Eve but flying on that day; you may not get home, the same goes for New Year's eve day/eve.
A certain airline for which I once flew always cancelled all flights over Christmas and New Year. However; all pilots were rostered on Standby on the days when there were no flights. So, in reality, you were stuck in an alcohol free home zone for days on end. Some of us ended up with two weeks on standby!
At one point in my eclectic career, having achieved, by my own Herculean efforts, a position of great seniority and superiority; I managed to convince the company's pilots that married guys would have Christmas off whilst the unmarried guys flew, but that at New Year the opposite would apply. This actually worked quite well but only because someone had a vested interest in it doing so and kept a tight hand on the rein.
One can also loose a lot of public holiday days off by going on leave over a calendar period in which many such days fall.
Roster swaps are anathema to Crewing. It places extra work regarding duty and flight times on their plates. It is not something that is encouraged, all that extra thinking and juggling!:ooh:

[garthicus]

One of my past employers gave all the Pilots the option of Xmas or New Years off and did their best to guarantee the request.. you'd be surprised how many people rather NYE....

I suppose it all comes down to the company you work for...

[scroggs]

In this job you will always be liable to fly at Christmas, until you become senior enough to ask for - and get - leave. That could take a very long time in some companies. Until you have that seniority, you are at the mercy of the roster - and you may only get that roster three or four weeks before Christmas. If you're not actually rostered to work Christmas Day, you may be returning from a trip late Christmas Eve, or outbound early Boxing Day morning. Or you could be on standby - which could be at an airport. Just tell your family to expect you when they see you!

Scroggs

[Max Angle]

Apart from the small long-haul operation we (bmi) don't operate on xmas day and the deal is that if you work xmas (both xmas eve and boxing day or late xmas eve or early boxing day) then you have the next xmas off. Same goes for New Year and you can bid for the one you want to work over. Seems to work pretty well and I often end up off for both.

[alatnariver]

My dear friend, your question regarding flying over christmass is not the point but the idea of actually paying someone, in this case the people who do the rostering, is in my opinion not acceptable at all!
Just to get me right and as I mentioned in my previous replay, I suspect if people who are willing to actually grease some one are of the same kind, showing the same attitude as people who accept or even demand "a little geasture". This is in my opinion not acceptable at all and questions someones credebility and finaly professionalism. Why I have this opninion? Well, maybe you are willing to bent or even breake rules just because some one ask you for a "little feavour" while leaving "something" behind on your desk, for example.
If you, like you metioned before, were asking in the respect of greasing someone in an irronic manner, then I suggest you should make this clear! For example have a look to the right of the window where you can edit your posts, lots of nice little so called smilies :p
For your information, as you, I like christmass and prefer to be at home during this time of the year. But during the past ten years of my career I spent only a total of three christmass eves at home. For the future this wont change much, so I have to live with it. :sad:

[Tooloose]

The situation in Aer Lingus is very similar to that in bmi as described by Max Angle. There is usually an adequate number of volunteers for spending Christmas in hotels abroad as family can be brought along and Christmas dinner is provided for all by the company. O.K., before the nitpickers leap into action, there is a limit to the number of family you can bring and the seats are not positive but the deal is usually sufficiently attractive for those who like that sort of thing. We can also indicate a preference for Christmas or New Year. I like to be at home for Christmas, I have very little interest in New Year and so I have not had to work on Christmas Day for the past 30 years. Also, while our rostering system leaves a lot to be desired, it is not seniority based and everybody gets a reasonably equal crack of the whip. The point of all this? Not all airlines are the same, just as everyones' preferred lifestyle is not the same, and, if you are prepared to do the research and make the necessary compromises, it is possible to find a reasonable match. Good luck.