Aviation Security,where In Africa Have You Felt Unsafe?

[AVSEC]

I am curiouse to find out from all of you,in which airport have you found the Aviation security employed by airlines ineffective,and also where have you felt the security measures put in place by the airport should be upgraded quickly?
In west Africa,there appears to be a grudging realization about the specialization required for aviation security,and travel document screening,but for me it is moving far too slowly e.g Ghana's Kotoka International Airport.

I would love to learn from you guys,what you think should essentially be done quickly to improve aviation security both by the contractors serving different airlines,and the Airports government oriented security itself?

Do you have any aviation security organization in mind that provide a case study,for what you think is the best way to secure air transportation in airports within Africa,and examples of worst case scenarios?

I would be grateful for any info you could share as I intend to use it as a bench mark to improve our operations.Thanks.

[surely not]

Before any answers come in it would be helpful if you could clarify whether you are including passport screening and profiling in your request for info, or is it just the triple A, aircraft guarding, AMD, 100% HBS etc that concerns you?

[AVSEC]

Triple A security which includes Cargo security,Aircraft security,pax and baggage screening,travel document screening and pax profiling.

[AVSEC]

Its just that I am worried how in Africa unlike Europe,and USA, we seem to have no uniformity of approach and execution of these services,as well as no organised body or authority that represents and regulates them even within their regional areas e.g. Southern africa,Eastern Africa,Nothern Africa and western Africa.

[surely not]

You think there is uniformity in Europe and the USA!!!

Each airport seems to have its own ideas as to whether shoes can remain on or have to come off, laptops remain in computer bags or need to be put through seperately, what constitutes a jacket that has to be taken off or one that can stay on.

100% HBS is a pipe dream in some areas with equipment not checked daily, and screeners training not kept current. That said there are some excellent operators and they are generally the ones contracted and audited by airlines from Europe.

[Boeing737jock]

Must be a joke? Most of West Africain airport have no security it all!



The very very bad!

Pointe noir, Congo

Kinsasha, Congo

Brazaville, Congo

Cotonou ,Benin

and many more!


jock

[surely not]

I find it odd that someone with a name like Avsec is asking people on a public forum to announce where the worst security is!!! Talk about making it easy for the ne'er do wells of this world to successfully carry out their deeds of despicability.

I suggest that people do not highlight the airports/countries by name.

[4HolerPoler]

Hardly a security risk "surely not." Keep your hat on.

I get the feeling that our new member AVSEC really thinks he can make a difference in Africa. You have to admire a guy with ambition.

4HP

[AVSEC]

When I talk of uniformity in execution of service I mean screening approach.
In west africa most of the auditing is self and client imposed.There are no skilled inspectorate agencies.
We train our personnel twice a year,and our training consultants are UK based,with DOT certification,but that is not the norm in the industry we compete in which is within west africa.
This is why I am eager to get opinions from this forum where the contributors are well travelled.

[MrBernoulli]

I would say the VAST majority of African security is well below what should be the professional minimum.

[AVSEC]

There are airlines I do not use because of their approach to aviation security.I would not use Afriquiyah airlines from Nigeria because of lack of avsec,the same for middle eastern airlines,ethiopian airlines,egypt air,and most local operators on the domestic routes apart from Aero contractors who are thorough,although they need to upgrade.VK also attempts to provide adequate screening at their boarding gates.

We live in interesting times,especially with upsurge in militia terrorist attacks from the Niger Delta.Aero contractors and VK were threatened hence the requirement for AVSEC to be taken seriousely in west africa and aFRICA AS A WHOLE.

[AVSEC]

I am worried at west african airports having protectionist policies e.g. Kotoka International airport in Ghana,where companies like Grays security,and even the recent attempt by Menzies and GAHCO to establish an aviation security company,and Pathfinders International Limited from Nigeria,were prevented from getting licenses to operate because majority share holders were Foreigners and not Ghanaian.
So much for FDI and NEPAD.
How do you keep your personnel skilled,if you prevent the most proffessional organizations from investing in your industry.Ethiopia is also the same.Either you are part of ethiopian airlines,or you face a hard time trying to set up.

[Goffel]

Well why dont we start with Jhb International as unsafe.
Rumour has it that there is no Safety oversight by CAA on any of the airlines.
Apparently ACSA will not allow the CAA onto the ramps to do their inspections.
So add that one to your list.

[DawnTreader]

...I would be grateful for any info you could share as I intend to use it as a bench mark to improve our operations.Thanks.

How do we know you are not Al-Qaeda or a similar group?

I propose we close this thread until we have established who this person is and the threat to UK & US flights has passed.

The specialist information we have is bound to be useful to any terrorist cell and we have a responsibility to refrain from disclosing this to the public.

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm: :} :hmm:

With apologies to AVSEC whose original post may have been well intentioned but was certainly badly timed.
In fact, were I he, based in London and an aviation security expert, I'd take the Chunnel before MI5 caught up.
Herewith, with a little tweaking of a poetic licence is the original post.
Would any sane professional volunteer the information requested?

I am curiouse to find out from all of you, in which areas have you found the security employed by the state president ineffective,and also where have you felt that the security measures put in place by the president's office should be upgraded quickly?
In west Africa,there appears to be a grudging realization about the specialization required for presidential security,and travel document screening, but for me it is moving far too slowly e.g Ghana's Kotoka Palace.

I would love to learn from you guys,what you think should essentially be done quickly to improve presidential security both by the contractors installing alarm systems,and the presidential mansion governmentally oriented security itself?

Do you have any security installation organization in mind that provide a case study,for what you think is the best way to circumvent security installations in presidential residences within Africa,and examples of worst case scenarios in South Africa in particular?

I would be grateful for any info you could share as I intend to use it as a bench mark to improve our international assassination operations.Thanks.
;) :p :cool:

[AVSEC]

I understand your concerns,especially with what happened in the UK today.
I actually live in Nigeria,but have been unable to join pprune via the internet probably because we are provided services by multilinks.
I am currently on holiday in the UK,as I am also a UK national.

Our company has been involved in avsec since 1993 in west africa and we have quite a reputation in our field.

Perhaps you are right,and I misjudged the forum and what one could gain from it,so maybe the thread should be shut down.

[AVSEC]

CARVORTINGCHEETAH and DAWNTREADER I am no terrorist,but I guess that is what one would say anyway.
Some info was realised though,and that is that aviation security is not taken seriousely in West Africa/Africa.Hopefully with the scare in the UK,African governments will reassess the priority given towards our field and take it more seriously.

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

The other day someone on another thread was complaining about the fact that a friend of his had had a half empty bottle of water confiscated at some security gate or another.
I posted some details on nitro- glycerine which is a colourless and highly explosive liquid as justifying such confiscation. As I remember, the details came from Wikepedia.
Perhaps with some prescience of mind I anticipated today's ban on liquids on aircraft ex the UK?
I think that some in aviaton are a tad twitched up at he moment and, rather like a submarine commander whom I know well, would prefer to fall back on the phrase: 'That's classified'.
Happy holidays and safe journey home.:)

[AVSEC]

Thanks Cavorting Cheetah.I return on 14th of august,if my family and I can get on, with all anticipated disruptions.
Cant wait to get back on the job.I'm fat now and can hear the alcohol sloshing through my system.
Hope I can one day get to meet any of you in LOS or ABV one of these days.

[Stan Switek]

How do we know you are not Al-Qaeda or a similar group?
I propose we close this thread until we have established who this person is and the threat to UK & US flights has passed.
The specialist information we have is bound to be useful to any terrorist cell and we have a responsibility to refrain from disclosing this to the public.

I strongly suspect those involved in terrorism already know that security in many parts of Africa is poor to non existant without surfing this forum, Just a hunch....

[Flying Touareg]

took VK on the 11th august to jborg. was in the queue while boarding at D41 or so for about two hours because of the unprecedented security measures:} at DNMM that evening.And no one in VK cared to apologise for keeping us on our feet for close to two hours.The ground staff were so rude in the name of AVSEC.
Well Vk has lost one pax, me. never again.Infact, my problem with VK started when i was misled and checked in for JNB at ABV.Getting to the screening point at DNMM, i was asked to go back to the VK counter where they didnt care to apologise for the misinformation at ABV.I Had to start all over again and rejoin another long long queue.

[AVSEC]

I dont understand why VK lacks common customer services skills.
What does it take for someone to walk along the queue and apologise for the delay due to security checks?
Disgusting isnt it?

[surely not]

Avsec are you new to Africa?? Your current willingness to deride VK whilst you have fairly obviously only flown on Aero as an alternative is unreal. Have you flown with any of the airlines out of the Domestic Terminal and seen their security in action? You might realise that VK and Aero are streets ahead of the competition! VK are alone in having 100% HBS on Domestic flights, and ALML are audited by VS on a regular basis so I doubt that they are performing below standard.

So who are you working for Avsec? Arik? I think you have an agenda other than security in West Africa

[alghaita ganga]

surely not,
I agree aero and VK is much better than the others and I feel much more safe to fly with them, but the aero check-in and security staff are so rude and aggressive I often feel to just not bother to fly with them. They are some of the sorst I have met and the way to traet one customer is completely different to treat another. If there was another, safe, airline I surely would fly with it.
It does also seem this AVSEC has an agenda as he will praise only aero. Maybe yiou are right and he is waiting for Arik to start. I have many doubt about them. For an airline to be getting all the special treatment they are without any operation in place spekas a lot about the traditional African way to do business and they seem to have a lot of powerful friend. Whether they know anything of running international airline will be seen later

[chandlers dad]

I would say the VAST majority of African security is well below what should be the professional minimum.

That is an understatement. Flew out of many of the airports in Africa and found this to be the case.

[Revnetwork]

Flying Touareg,
VK did not have a flight to Jo'Burg on the 11thAugust. The nearest would have been on the 10th or 12th.
Having spoken to a friend who works at VK and was on the flight on the 10th, he says the reason for the delay was because of your aircraft being delayed out of LGW on the day due to the extra security.Despite that, there should have been some sort of communication to the pax explaining the reason for the delay.
Despite all this, VK is not there yet and there's still a lot of work to be done but very few NIGERIAN airlines come close to VK at the moment. I will certainly fly them.
ps. I have flown most of the world's major airlines and have experienced both the good and the bad on ALL of them.

[I.R.PIRATE]

somalia somalia somalia

[Flying Touareg]

sorry it was on the 10th
VK 54 ABV-LOS
VK 303 LOS-JNB

I could even send you pix of tired pax that decided to sit on the ground because they couldnt bear the pain anymore. agreed that the issue at heathrow affected most airlines, but nobody at VK in LOS could offer an explanation or say sorry to us.

[AVSEC]

Flying Touareg my point exactly.
I have flown sosoliso,nicon airlines when it was still EAS,Bellview,space world,Dasab and ADC.Lets not forget IRS.

ALML does only one training every two years for aviation security and they use a South African training company AVSCAN which sold off all its pax profiling and travel documents screening business years ago,so there is little current on the job experience.Past experience, yes.Current experience,no.It was a profiling company,never an aviation security company in total.It is these kind of errors that hurt Nigeria.
Dont get me wrong,one of the contributors is right to say that VK and Aero have security for local/international travel from an international airport,but of what standard is VK security?
VK is not alone,Bellviews attempts are abbysmal on the acc and via sierra leone london route.

Lets not forget VK's recent howlers on the Joburg route.I believe it was over 18 pax returned on one flight as inadmissibles.Hardly improves Nigeria's external image,does it now?

We are not involved with Arik,but we Cant have them making the kind of avoidable mistakes VK makes,and so if we are approached,of course we will help.

This is not a VK bashing forum,I just believe they have the finance and goodwill to secure their operations and offer better customer services than they actually do.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

...Strapped into the seat in economy facing that cardboard airline meal...:ooh:


The Horror.......:eek:

[Revnetwork]

AVSEC, you seem to think that you can come on here and spout all kinds of nonesense. Can you please tell me the flight/date where there were 18 inadmissibles on the Jo'Burg route?
I suggest that if you can't provide this, you should stop making stupid accusations on an open forum.
I'm surprised that you haven't made the same allegation about the Dubai route. Afterall, it's the same security company that handles those flights as well.

[4HolerPoler]

Hit a tender spot did he Revnet? This is a rumour forum, there is no such thing as a "stupid accusation" - they're rumours. Debate the issue by all means but accept the fact that others see the world from a different perspective than yours.

Remember too the red warning at the bottom of this page - "As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent."

4HP

[putt for dough]

You gotta love the drama:O

[AVSEC]

revnetwork,sorry if I hurt your feelings.That was not intended,but I challenge you to cross check with immigration services at Joburg or cross check with any pals you may have within Nigerian immigration services or the south african high commision in Nigeria if you get the opportunity to visit.

believe me,I want VK to succeed so bad I can taste it.So lets criticise positively with the hope that someone who makes decisions is wise enoough to check forums such as this,to get a feeling for his/her product/brand from people within the industry.

You are right to point out that the VK Dubai,Douala,routes have not experienced these problems,but London and Joburg routes which are of interest to the travel syndicates within Nigeria have been hit real hard.


I am tired of African aviation being seen as a part of the industry where anything goes,so lets start by being honest.

[Flying Touareg]

To the numerous VK fans in this forum, we owe it as patriotic nigerians committed to the success of all nigerian airlines to offer constructive criticisms and also the tell the truth as it is.
Why is it that anytime someone tries to criticise VK,he comes under attack?If you have the intrest of VK at heart, take our criticisms where they happen to be factual and constructive, to your sponsors at VK to enable them improve their services. The bottomline is that VK has a long way to go in the sense that services being rendered a kind of amateurish.AERO appears more professional than VK and it is a fact. SAA airlines, ethiopian, Kenya are all more pro than VK. VK should aim to be better than all african airlines and compete with carriers like emirates, cathay , SAA, etc.But this can only be achieved if you VK fans take our suggestions and advice to your fellas at VK.

I was not happy with the way VK handled our flight to jborg and i know quite a few FT inclusive that have chosen to take SAA to return back.It was my first VK flight out of Nigeria and the last till they improve.

[surely not]

Hmmmmm Avsec is touting for business and does so by attacking other companies when he has no track record for himself.

It isn't necessary for Rev Network to check with anyone because VK will know if they have had refusals because they will have been fined. If there are nil fines then there were nil refusals. I also doubt those figures and challenge Avsec to offer some hard facts to back up the allegations. If he cannot then I can only conclude that it is some sort of marketing ploy on his behalf.

I am also sure that ALML, who also carry out the checks for VS, check their staff every year as per the requirements in Europe.

Flying Toureg I think Rev network acknowledged your points, and I am sure that VK is working to improve communication with the passengers re delays. The recent delays due to the security hiatus in UK must have been difficult to accurately judge time wise as nothing of its sort has been seen since VK was born.

I have worked with people employed by VK and know that they are aware of the problems they have with getting information to pax. Your comments are helpful, bit Avsec is a bit of a loose cannon who seems to believe that if you throw enough ****e some will stick.

[18left]

.Infact, my problem with VK started when i was misled and checked in for JNB at ABV.Getting to the screening point at DNMM, i was asked to go back to the VK counter where they didnt care to apologise for the misinformation at ABV.I Had to start all over again and rejoin another long long queue.


Out of curiousity did,when you checked in at abuja where your bags screened by customs or port health?if they where not as a security guy that should have been the red flag for you.THeres certainly no way your bags will get to joburg without passing through customs

[AVSEC]

surely not,this is an anonymous forum,but it does not prevent anyone from getting contact details in order to forward one's career.
RE evidence,you have already stated that apart from avenues I have given to confirming info,one can approach VK.
VK must succeed,but it wont be by we proffessionals burying our heads in the sand.