Operators In Iraq

[Steve76]

Did anyone get a reply regarding positions for this contract?

[Nellis]

If you are referring to the recruiting by Helicrew Solutions, I put in a CV, but was told I am too old!!!! The age limit is 50 - something to do with insurance. Not too happy, but such is life.

Cheers all.

[Bomber ARIS]

INSURANCE!!!??!!!?

[IHL]

It reminds me of Joseph Heller's book Catch 22.

To paraphrase the book: Because of the extreme nature of the place If you want to go there there must be something wrong with you, therefore we don't want you. On the other hand if you don't want to go then your the guy we want.

[SASless]

Now I know this is a rumour network....but this whole situation is worrying me.

The advert goes out...some folks respond...some get no answer...some get positive answers...some get hokey answers about insurance...some about an age 50 cutoff. Stong aroma of skunk here!

Good thing it is not a USA based outfit that said age was a criteria.....it can be...but you cannot say it is.....or be proven to have used age to discriminate against an otherwise qualified applicant.

However....that being said....if it is US Aid funds being used.....as part of the contract with the US Government will be just such clauses in the contract.

Why can the helicopter industry not run on an ethical basis that raises no questions about integrity?

[alouette]

Why can the helicopter industry not run on an ethical basis that raises no questions about integrity?

If that would be the case there would be no helicopter industry anymore:E

[ATPMBA]

I heard heli pilots are making big $$$ over there.

Really Big - like sport stars!!!!

[rotaryman]

You Just Got To Live Long Enough To Spend It.....!!! :ok:

[Steve76]

How does a shrink decide you are fit for the job from a resume?
Is the emphasise going to be on past military quals or practical experience?

[Bomber ARIS]

One would think that the practical experience for flying in a war zone would more likely be gained in the military.

Civies need not apply...................until the locals have shot down all of the ex-mil personnel :uhoh:

[joedirt]

These guy's are fiction......if they knew what they where doing, they would NOT need to advertise in a magazine......even Dynacorp or everybody's favorite secret airline Evergreen :eek: knows this.....but at least they are credible in weird contracts
:}

Kevlar is itchy anyway....:=

[wde]

Any news or further contact information on this work?

Looking for some online corroboration sources..

Thanks

[Cyclic Hotline]

Lots of jobs here. (http://www.sofmag.com/home.do)

[BlenderPilot]

I constantly get offers from big operators to go work in weird places.

Its funny, but some major US operators prefer to hire non US citizens for these jobs. I have friends that have been hired over much more qualified US candidates to go to Africa just because they were not US citizens, and their reasoning was that if they ever got into trouble it didn't make such a big deal in the media and politically, in some places in Africa US citizens were not really welcome but if you came from say Peru or Mexico it was never a problem, plus I guess you can't kidnap a Peruvian and put him on TV begging to withdraw troops from Irak since these countries are not even participating in the . . . . . . well you know.

[stas-fan]

i just spent 15 mins on my ipaq typing a reply and i lost it reviewing the text. bolloxs.
i may do it in the morning subject to mood!

[SASless]

Blender...

I have been told by a little birdie that Spanish speakers work cheap and don't complain like their Yankee brothers too. There is some truth to what you say....easier to deny someone that is not carrying that blue passport. Of course a Gringo working down south can find himself a hostage pleading for his life as well.

When you guys going to start drawing combat pay for working around Nuevo Laredo?

[BlenderPilot]

SASless,

What you say is definately true for people that work in the fields picking oranges, but for pilots its the other way around completely, the reason is that being a pilot in the US is almost "blue collar" work in many instances, anybody with a good loan and determination can become a pilot and there are thousands of people becoming pilots everyday, usually supply equals demand, and pilot pay is usually not the best amongst profesional workers in the US.

In Latin America people that become pilots are either very rich to be able to pay their training or military which are always the lesser part of the pilot pool, either way pilot supply is very limited, jobs are well paid, equipment is usually new or almost new, for example offshore pilots over here work 14 on 14 off, get airfare home every 14 days, go to FlightSafety at least once a year and fly brand new 412's, the money is comparable to what their counterparts make, and they stay in good hotels not trailers, so why move?

Actually the recent trend has been to bring US operators to do such things as fight fires because they are much cheaper, they bring old UH1's that over here nobody wants to fly do the work for less money than the local companies which operate to a different standard, sort of like the Russians in Spain.

[Ian Corrigible]

Wages for a 60/30 schedule with Blackwater is reported to be in the $140-190K range: KiowaPilots (http://www.kiowapilots.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=4865&perpage=15&pagenumber=1).

I/C

[BigMike]

Link to Blackwater helicopter video in Iraq. You need to sign on but it is free.

http://www.atwar.net/content.php?article.239

[chopperchav]

Great video. Brave men! My kahunas must be tiny in relation to these guys/girls.

Like the comment that no one will come and pick you up if shot down, which met the reply that 'they will come, dress you in orange pyjamas and make you famous'.

They are still massively underpaid.

[wde]

What about these guys? Any one have info?

http://www.helicrew.co.uk/

wde

[Baque Flip]

Seem like a credible bunch. Know a few guys that have had placements from them.

As for the age question, it is fairly obvious isn't it?

With the clients that you will be flying around, if you go downbird, you will be expected to join in and hold your own with the 'team'. Therefore, previous military training and a level of 'combat fitness' would be essential!

I am pretty sure that even the security companies also have an upper age limit for their field guys. I would hope that in these 'Non permissive' environments, common sense would prevail over politically correct equal rights etc, especially when lives are at risk.

Check them out anyway, looks like they have some firm salary figures + T's & C's.

[wde]

Some info:

Tax free UK£100000 per annum paid.

- Roster worked 6 weeks on 4 weeks off. Also downtime as stipulated by normal civil aviation regulations (within 6 weeks on) may be taken in Bahrain. 4 weeks off is flown to place of recruitment as a return economy fare.

- Accommodation will be within Baghdad’s Green Zone in BHA’s villa. Shared accommodation, A/C, satellite TV, unlimited broadband access, cook and cleaner, all meals provided.

- All insurance and medical cover will be provided within the parameters of the PSC (Personal Security Company) contract. This includes personal accident, death and disablement including Medevac cover (incl US$250k payout on death to partner plus US$1000pcm US Government Scheme to partner for life). Medical and dental will be provided for year round cover in Iraq/Bahrain and place of recruitment.

- 3 months notice in contract

- All aircraft will be single pilot but flown at all times with crew of 2

- The aircraft will be flown under a Kenyan AOC. Successful candidates will fly first to Kenya for licensing, NVG refresher and desert flying.

Candidates will be requested not to work in their roster downtime as rest is considered crucial to pilot vitality and professionalism

[SASless]

How fit does one have to be to stand and fight? 8.5 footpounds of torque on the trigger seems manageable by the average housewife.

Where does one sign up.....investment guy told me today to not do anything unless it was "fun"....he suggested working as a necessity is over.

[Baque Flip]

Just thought that I would let you know that I tried calling Blue Hackle Aviation ref this job in Iraq.

No joy I'm afraid. I was categorically told to go through the guys at Helicrew Solutions. So don't even waste your time.

Looks like recruiting has already begun.

[EESDL]

What's the problem?
AOC set-up.
Job agency to get the CVs.
V Experienced set-up running the show.
Air America it's not, job for a divorcee with 5 ex's it could be!

[AlanM]

Any news on this.....?

Is it up and running yet.... what types are they using?

[rotorboy]

Why even advertise if they are so specific, dont all those 160 guys all know each other. Heck i would go in a heart beat, just dont have time in the 160th..


MD 530F Pilot
Location: IRAQ International International
Salary Range: TBD-TBD
Email: [email protected] or fax (321) 253-8814
Job Desc: Currently have two MD 530F pilot openings. Rotation is 60 days in country, 30 days off, round trip ticket to home of record. If you are applying for this position, you will need to have commercial and US Military aviation operations experience. Expect long hours, high-risk environment, and working with talented and skilled aviators, who demand the same.
Benefits: Paid medical, dental, life insurance. Paid holidays, vacation and sick time. 401K with Company matching funds. Company supplied uniforms.
Requirements: MD 530 F helicopter pilots must have over 3500 total helicopter time, time in MD 500s, at least 500 NVG time, have served in either a high-risk environment or combat tour with the US Military (Special Operations experience is a plus, i.e. Served in the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment). Company will not talk to anyone unless a complete resume is on file with us.
:ok:

[Bright-Ling]

A little birdy tells me that Blue Hackle have gone t1t$ up - anyone been dumped after receiving a contract???

B-L

[MOSTAFA]

You heard wrong Blue Hackle are fine and most definately employing they just got given a bum steer by a bunch of walts.

Look them up on the web and give them a call.

[welldone]

I've never flown the A109c.

Could anybody enlighten me as to how far you could get in a A109c in +40 deg C with pilot and five pax?

This info may help Blue Hackle plan its future Ops, or then again you could just cuff it.

Good luck with the recruiting.

[John Eacott]

how far you could get in a A109c in +40 deg C with pilot and five pax?

Do you want a normal circuit, or a wide one ;) :p

[MAINROTOR]

Don't know how true this is but what the heck, it's a rumour network.

Heard a rumour that a helo flying for a “civvie” company got shot down over Iraq a while ago. Don't know if it's days, weeks or months ago.

Can anyone confirm?!

[Staticdroop]

Last i heard the guys had gone to Kenya for their hot and high etc and the contract was subsequently lost, every body carry on normal jogging:ok:

[mafesto]

Asides from Blackwater blasting around in 500's does anyone know of other civilian operators in Iraq what sort of steel? pay? any contacts?

[Ian Corrigible]

Some prior discussion about Iraqi work here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=163391&pp=15).

I/C

[B Sousa]

Ironic, you mention that. Have a few friends hired on with some. Dyncorp etc.Making very very good Dinero....Seems that the shades of Air America from the Vietnam days is alive and well.
Breaking the taxpayers back as usual.......
If the military cannot do the job(which we all know they can if left alone by the Political crooks) why do we have so many mercs on the U.S. payroll??. Many non U.S. folks.......At Least give the Americans the first chance at the big dollars......

[Lunar]

Typical, a war against terror that every free country should fight for world freedom....but if there is money to be made Americans first then the rest.


Lunar

[SASless]

Lunar,


After all, dear boy...it is US Tax Payer dollars paying for this. Think we should put the French and Germans on the US Welfare system....was not the Marshal Plan enough?

[Buitenzorg]

The whole point of having mercs do these jobs is that the administration can avoid too many "Local high school QB dies hero's death" headlines in local newspapers - might put the voters off the upcoming regime change in Iran!

Foreign mercs getting killed generates no headlines at all, and is therefore the preferred option. It might be your tax money, but the politicians get to spend it and they want to get re-elected.:yuk:

[remote hook]

So I wonder if Bush and his cronies consider those "mercs" insurgents...? I mean if they can classify Iraqis fighting an occupying force as "terrorist insurgents," can't you call civi heli contractors on the American side the same thing?

It's almost amusing when money and propaganda get mixed, too bad so many people are suffering and dying....:(

RH

[Lunar]

The enemy is easy to identify he is the one who's media your not watching...

Lunar

[John Eacott]

Lunar,

After all, dear boy...it is US Tax Payer dollars paying for this. Think we should put the French and Germans on the US Welfare system....was not the Marshal Plan enough?

So when do we Aussie taxpayers get our rebate: next financial year? No doubt there may be a few Poms wondering when their taxpayers' quids are going to be reimbursed,too :rolleyes: :hmm:

[Thomas coupling]

I've heard there aren't enough takers for the job of covering those 'busy' 17km from airport to green zone in a bolkow 105:eek:
Salary now up from £100,000 to £150,000 for any future "merc's".

I wonder what your life expectancy is, doing a job like this.
Surely a young whipper snapper perched on a flat roof somewhere waiting for a 105 to go over, just shoves a stove pipe down your rear from 200yds off and you're a statistic and you didn't even see it coming???? Painless I suppose.

[SHortshaft]

Oh dear, people are using the “M” word. Surely we must be PC!

[7balja01]

i'm 100% with lunar.
sas,
in australia we also pay....waste money on the war this isnt a U.S. war, but it should be. Many australians died in vietnam.
have you ever heard about them?:(

jacob.:hmm:

[SASless]

7,

I fought alongside those very soldiers....and lost good friends while we did so.

I flew combat missions supporting the Australian units.

No slur was meant by my previous comment....I was responding to the earilier post that was directed to the American side of the coalition.

My response was directed towards the folks that are peeking through the knotholes in the fence while others fight this war on terrorism. That certainly is not the Australians and Brits who have been stalwart friends for a very long time.

[NickLappos]

SASless,

There are wars on terrorism, and there are big stupid mistakes. I think the distinction is not a small one, and those folks you make fun of were absolutely correct in their initial assessment that there was no reason to attack a country that was not an imminent danger. No WMD, no link to terrorists, no danger, no war.

Wrapping yourself in the flag works in the US, because we are stupid enough to blank our minds when the flag is brought out. Thus we forgot about 'Nuclear clouds" as the reason why we HAD to rush into this tragic opera. Such jingoism doesn't work in the real world. The folks that you think are "peeking through the knotholes in the fence while others fight this war on terrorism" are correct in thinking that the US "wasted thousands of lives attacking the wrong country while terrorists laugh at us."
Of course, when we label the Iraquis who attack their invaders as "terrorists" while we drag out the flag, it helps your lips frame the words easier, doesn't it?

For those who say "we are there now and must try to make things right" there is an element of truth in that (I have a son in Kirkuk) but that shouldn't create any amnesia as to who made the mistake, and how they made it so we don't just do it again tomorrow to some other country.
For every heart-breaking shot of a little girl killed by an insurgent bomb, there is a shot of an innocent Iraqui killed by a stray American bomb or bullet, unfortunately. Of course, if you listen to FOX news, those terrorist weddings are a big part of the danger, and so they must be bombed.

[BigMike]

Regardless of the reasons, we are there now and must try to make things right.
For those who would like hear a different take on what is happening there, instead of the commercial network dribble, sit down and read this Blog all the way way through. It's very interesting.

http://michaelyon.********.com/2005/05/little-girl.html

[SASless]

Nick,
As I have said many times....one can take the short view or the long view of the war against terror. A short view makes Iraq look like a terrible mistake...a long view will show it to be much different.
You will recall we occupied Iceland during World War II.....I am sure there are some that would take issue with that concept. It was done as part of a much larger plan of action. I would suggest establishing a democratic government smack in the middle of the Middle East in the long term...will prove to be the right move in the long term.
Go back and build a chronology and casualty list of the terrorist attacks that have been connected to the Middle East....and explain to us how you would solve that problem. You were at the WTC shortly after the attack there...what limit do we place upon ourselves in a "War" against terror?
Do we make like boxers...swapping punches....or do we go after them like an old time southern rat killing at the corn crib?
That the Iraq war has been grossly mishandled is not an issue...it has been. Name one war that has not been...just one please?

An example of one area where we are failing to do a good job....

Iraqi Intelligence Documents: Saddam Trained Thousands of Terrorists at Iraq Training Camps
Jim Kouri
January 7, 2006


In one of the least reported stories in the history of journalism, documents and other materials confiscated by the US military in the wake of the Iraq invasion revealed that Saddam Hussein's regime trained thousands of terrorists inside Iraq.

According for Stephan Hayes of The Weekly Standard, Saddam Hussein trained thousands of radical Islamic terrorists from the region at camps in Iraq over the four years immediately preceding the U.S. invasion. Hayes cites documents written in Arabic and photographs recovered and confirmed by eleven US government officials.

"The secret training took place primarily at three camps--in Samarra, Ramadi, and Salman Pak--and was directed by elite Iraqi military units. Interviews by U.S. government interrogators with Iraqi regime officials and military leaders corroborate the documentary evidence," wrote Hayes in his expose' for The Weekly Standard.

Many of the over 8,000 fighters were from terrorist groups with close ties to al Qaeda, including the Sudanese Islamic Army. It's believed, based on the Iraqi intelligence documents translated, that 2,000 terrorists were trained at these Iraqi camps each year from 1999 to 2002, putting the total number at or above 8,000, says Hayes.

"Intelligence officials believe that some of these terrorists returned to Iraq and are responsible for attacks against Americans and Iraqis. According to three officials with knowledge of the intelligence on Iraqi training camps, White House and National Security Council officials were briefed on these findings in May 2005; senior Defense Department officials subsequently received the same briefing."

The documents cited include handwritten notes, typed documents, audiotapes, videotapes, compact discs, floppy discs, and computer hard drives. Taken together, this collection could give U.S. intelligence officials and policymakers an inside look at the activities of the former Iraqi regime in the months and years before the Iraq War.

Why isn't this revelation being trumpeted in Washington? Because it exposes the ineptness of the intelligence community and would embarrass many political leaders who maintain that there were no ties between Saddam and radical Islamic terrorist groups.

According to Stephan Hayes, "It exposes the flawed assumptions of the experts and US intelligence officials who told us for years that a secularist like Saddam Hussein would never work with Islamic radicals, any more than such jihadists would work with an infidel like the Iraqi dictator. It also reminds us that valuable information remains buried in the mountain of documents recovered in Afghanistan and Iraq over the past four years."

Nearly three years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, only 50,000 of these 2 million "exploitable items" have been thoroughly examined. That's 2.5 percent. Despite the hard work of the individuals working on the "DOCEX" project, the process is not moving quickly enough, says Michael Tanji, a former Defense Intelligence Agency official who helped lead the document exploitation effort for 18 months. "At this rate," he says, "if we continue to approach DOCEX in a linear fashion, our great-grandchildren will still be sorting through this stuff."

Most of the 50,000 translated documents relate directly to weapons of mass destruction programs and scientists, since David Kay and his Iraq Survey Group--who were among the first to analyze the finds--considered those items top priority. "At first, if it wasn't WMD, it wasn't translated. It wasn't exploited," says a former military intelligence officer who worked on the documents in Iraq.

In November 2005, Michigan congressman Pete Hoekstra wrote to John Negroponte, the new director of national intelligence. Hoekstra, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, submitted to Negroponte a list of 40 documents recovered in postwar Iraq and Afghanistan and asked to see them. The documents were translated or summarized, given titles by intelligence analysts in the field, and entered into a government database known as HARMONY. Most of them are unclassified.

For several weeks, Hoekstra was promised a response. He finally got one on December 28, 2005, in a meeting with General Michael Hayden, principal deputy director of national intelligence. Hayden handed Hoekstra a letter from Negroponte that promised a response after January 1, 2006. Hoekstra took the letter, read it, and scribbled his terse response. "John--Unacceptable." Hoekstra told Hayden that he would expect to hear something before the end of the year. He didn't."I can tell you that I'm reaching the point of extreme frustration," said Hoekstra.

Other members of Congress--including Rep. Dana Rohrahacher and Senators Rick Santorum and Pat Roberts--also demanded more information from the Bush administration on the status of the vast document collection.

[Lunar]

SASless,


With regard to the writer of your previous article. We can all cut and paste...


Weekly Standard staff writer and author of the book The Connection: How al Qaeda's Collaboration with Saddam Hussein Has Endangered America (released on June 1 by Rupert Murdoch's publishing house HarperCollins), Stephen F. Hayes has appeared in recent months on numerous cable and Sunday talk shows to support his contention that there was indeed a connection between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. Despite vigorous critiques that have undermined the credibility of Hayes's contention, conservative pundits have embraced Hayes and his book in order to, in the words of Center for Strategic and International Studies fellow Daniel A. Benjamin, "shore up the rickety argument that Baathist Iraq had posed a real national security threat to the United States."


Questions surrounding Hayes's journalistic credibility have been documented by Media Matters for America. His book, which largely relies on the leaking of a discredited Defense Department intelligence memo, was released by the Murdoch-owned HarperCollins and has been vigorously promoted by Hayes in the pages of the Murdoch-owned Weekly Standard. On February 17, the British daily newspaper The Guardian published a report of Murdoch's support for the Iraq war and the resulting bias in Murdoch-owned media outlets. In addition, the Murdoch-owned New York Post on June 27 gave Hayes's book a glowing review. The review was written by Kenneth R. Timmerman, a senior writer for the conservative Washington Times' sister publication, Insight on the News; in April, Media Matters for America documented Timmerman's assertion in Insight on the News that weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq but that the media has chosen to let the story go unreported.


If you have any interest in reading more of this long article have a look at...


http://mediamatters.org/items/200406300014


For every view there is an opposite and equal view. If we are going to post in support or against something then lets use our own words, it's more intertesting.


Lunar

[diethelm]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

[B Sousa]

Foreign mercs getting killed generates no headlines at all, and is therefore the preferred option. It might be your tax money, but the politicians get to spend it and they want to get re-elected.

Understand that. Just would like to see our guys getting a little more money. For instance the 9/11 families got uncalled for Millions from the taxpayer and some poor Soldiers family gets diddly squat in comparison......
Thank the Politicians. Personally I would prefer to use elected officials for sandbags in a bunker. Just takes more of them than sand to hide behind.
The old saying Life aint fair, deal with it, comes into play........

[NickLappos]

SASless,
The problem with starting a war with a mistake is that people with brains remember the mistakes. If the war was initially sold as necessary for "the long view of the war against terror" it wouldn't wash, and it doesn't now.
It is easy for glib apologists to now say such things, but I ask you to tell me that this is the price Iraquis had to pay for the mistake:

http://globalfire.tv/nj/graphs/bagdad_bombing.jpg

This is enough to create a thousand "terrorists."

[diethelm]

All I know is that if some country was rumbling around my town in tanks and Humvees uninvited, I beleive my friends and I could come up with some clever ways to inflict serious damage without standing in the open with an RPG.

I guess that would make me a terrorist!

[ron-powell]

>The problem with starting a war with a mistake is that people with brains remember the >mistakes. If the war was initially sold as necessary for "the long view of the war against >terror" it wouldn't wash, and it doesn't now.

Thank you Mr. Lappos.

The problem with the long view is that the Bush administration took it without actually listening to any competent intellect on the subject. It continues to scare the bee-jesus out of me the architects of this obscene catastrophe have been around since the good old Nixon days – Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz. They had some misbegotten idea for the MidEast, the planets aligned with Bush #2 and 9/11 – straight out of the Project for a New American Century playbook and this is what you get.

And when they leave public “dis”-service, chances are none of them will be adversely affected in the least way by what they have wrought. Having a conscious, morals and ethics are prerequisites though. Oh, and a complete lack of shame.

Regarding the article SASless posted, how is it, with all the bad press coming out of Iraq, something like this hasn’t made it to the front page of say, the New York Times? Liberal media suppressing the “truth”? Come on. Any good, “factual” news supporting the lead up to the invasion and occupation would have been on national news immediately. There is none. Of course, this administration is paying for “good news” these days. It's all about the presentation, not the content. Like lipstick on a pig. As the well-worn saying goes, “You know they’re lying because their lips are moving.”

Ron Powell
Albuquerque NM

[NickLappos]

Frankly, Ron I am quite happy (and surprized) that no conspiracy has developed WMD's and planted them. The stark reality of the failure to find the weapons is an essential part of my faith in our system, and in the fundamental honesty of (even) the Bush administration. It says something when nobody tried to even fake it, doesn't it?

I have no idea what to say about that clown that SASless is quoting, who must have been dissappointed when he had to put down his research on black helicopters and big-foot to publish that article. Again, how the heck does HE get that data, when if it really existed, Condi Rice would have it tatooed on her forehead?

Again, the fundamental honesty of the system is something to behold.

[7balja01]

sasless,
"That the Iraq war has been grossly mishandled is not an issue...it has been. Name one war that has not been...just one please?"
Isnt it funny that all the blundered conflicts have in volved the USA? -in exception of the UK in the falklands, (total waste of time). cuba,vietnam, columbia,iraq.
and it seems that iran is next!
in regard to nicks photo. do you see any terrorist bases in the pic. it seems to me that we're looking at a photo of a CIVILIAN RESIDENTIAL AREA being destroyed!
jacob.:{

[BigMike]

Jacob, you are a 15 year old school boy. No offense, but some of these gentleman have a little more "life" experience than you do. This might be a good time to listen rather than talk.

Off topic, have you approched a company about working as a Hanger Rat yet Jacob?

[Peristatos]

The Weakly Standard neocons are hanging by a straw and Hayes' main source is Douglas Feith, nuff said.....

[212man]

Well (and politely) said Big Mike.

7bal... "in regard to nicks photo. do you see any terrorist bases in the pic. it seems to me that we're looking at a photo of a CIVILIAN RESIDENTIAL AREA being destroyed!"

I think that was the point Nick was trying to make, as he suffixed it with the comment: "This is enough to create a thousand "terrorists.""

If you slowed down and read more carefully, you would see Nick is presenting an extremely reasoned and reasonable approach to the situation.:ok:

Just had a couple of dinners with a guy from Control Risks, and he has some interesting coments to make about the civil contractors out there. Probably best left for now!

[Lunar]

212man,

Do you not think this would be a good forum for information from 'the horses mouth' as the guy who started this thread is clearly looking to go out there?

Lunar

[7balja01]

sorry,:uhoh:

just stating the obvious... and being a loud mouth at the same time. I guess it's not that hard to get worked-up about this war and we all seem to splurge out our thoughts before thinking.

i probably shouldn't be useing the word "Americans", as most americans are now against this war (according to reuters polls). "bush" or the "coalition" is a better word.

bigmike,

No i haven't approached any companies as a hangar rat. i don't see why i should crawl in the dust for a multi-million dollar corporation just to get my license - which i'll probably have to pay off through cheap labour in the next decade after. Instead, ill try super hard at school. get all prerequisites neaded for army aviation. push my way through OSB, and train hard out for the next 6 years at .......oakley?

maybe i'm asking for too much? have your say.

jacob.

[SASless]

I find this all very confusing. I must have missed something with the change from daylight savings time. Who are the bad guys again?


http://www.9neesan.com/massgraves/

[Revolutionary]

SASless, we all know who the bad guys are. Sure, on some level the war in Iraq is an epic battle between Good and Evil, but so is "The Dukes of Hazard". The question is, is invading another country under false pretense good foreign policy? Is it an effective way to combat Muslim extremism? And, can you dispense democracy from the barrel of a gun? The answer appears to be no, no and no.

[Stick_Stirrer]

No i haven't approached any companies as a hangar rat. i don't see why i should crawl in the dust for a multi-million dollar corporation just to get my license - which i'll probably have to pay off through cheap labour in the next decade after. Instead, ill try super hard at school. get all prerequisites neaded for army aviation. push my way through OSB, and train hard out for the next 6 years at .......oakley?

maybe i'm asking for too much? have your say.

jacob.

Good luck to you 7balja01,

Firstly finding "Oakley" and secondly getting anywhere in the industry with that sort of attitude. Hangar ratting is probably the best thing you could do at your age as not only will you learn something, but it also means you will meet people that might one day give you a job whether it bit after you obtain a CPL or after you leave the forces. Aviation, whether it be in the civilian world or military is an apprenticeship, no-one is going to treat you or pay like a tradesman if you don't have the experience or attitude and keep glueing your hand to your head. No one will hand anything to you on a platter just because your report card looks good. So maybe you should take BigMikes advice and go wash a few helicopters, help with a few 100 hourly's and heaven forbid sweep a few floors, at least that way you'll get a toe in the door and spend less time expressing your ignorance on PPrune :ok:

[Geoffersincornwall]

The most telling piece I have read on this "let's give'em democracy" gig is the one that contemplated the US's own transition from colony to democracy. The writer contemplated a situation where, aided by the French, the revolutionaries were engaged in battle with the 'homeland'. Along came a French politician and said to the Americans

"Don't worry my friends, we will come to your aid and set up a democracy for you here in ze Americas. We will 'elp you to rid your land of ze evil English and by-the-way, we have some experience with post-revolutionary constitutions so we can knock one out for you in no time".

What would the Americans have thought about the idea of having their democracy 'crafted' for them by the French. Probably not a long way from what many folk in the Middle East think about the concept of having the American version of democracy thrust upon an area that was the cradle of civilisation and as such has traditions and complexities aplenty.

Most of all I guess I cannot bear to think that I was lied to by politicians who did not believe that they would be found out. I will bear that scar forever, never again will I miss the opportunity to vote at a General Election.

G:ok:

[Reefdog]

g/Day Fellas

Any chance of getting back to the original subject!!

Who, if any company is hiring for Iraq??? I would like to know as well???

[Thomas coupling]

The USA only ever act if and when there is something in it for them. In this particular instance, Bush and his cronnies finally have their foothold in the middle east that the US military and the CIA have been dreaming of for decades.

Think of the benefits:

Top up their oil reserves.
Keep a close eye on the muslims.
Pick off any loose cannons like Iran and Syria with relative logisitical ease.

All great nations come full circle. The US can see themselves entering the autumn of their demise....they're just applying delaying tactics.

The future is yellow....everyone should know this.

[BigMike]

This is the link to Blackwater: http://www.blackwaterusa.com/securityconsulting/secopps.asp

although it dosn't look like they are hiring at the moment.

[SASless]

TC,

I believe a few minutes on google will show where the Iraqi oil is going...the percentages of the imported oil the USA takes from Iraq and other places.

Those numbers debunk any myth we are stealing Iraqi oil for our own purposes I would suggest. But...that was based upon a mere two minute search....so I don't claim to be an expert on the oil business.

[Masak]

This is my 1st post here so I would like to say hallo to everybody. I don't know whether Blackwater is hiring now but they were looking for some pilots few months ago.

http://www.justhelicopters.com/employment/pilotjoblisting.asp?iChannel=10000&offset=80

[7balja01]

for a start, you shouldn't necessarily believe anything your hear from a google related website sas. Secondly, USA government has it's finger dipped in iraq oil (watch SBS), Thirdly, i don't recommend flying in iraq- sure, you get paid heaps- but if anyone here does get hired, you should practice dodging rpg rounds beforehand.

jacob.

and greetings masak!

[welldone]

I dont doupt how risky the flying in Iraq is, however could anyone shed any light on how many helicopters have been lost due to hostile fire in the last two years, does anyone have any statistics?

It would be intresting to compare flying hours v incidents.

The only one that springs to mind is the skylink aircraft last year unless there are others not reported!

[B Sousa]

The US can see themselves entering the autumn of their demise....they're just applying delaying tactics.


Thomas
Should we go, trust me that the Mulas will be running 10 Downing Street first....

And not all Americans are against this mess. Its just some see it turning into Vietnam. Either kick thier collective butts or come on home. Politicians cannot run a war, its why they have Generals........ Give them the job and stay the hell out of the mess forget the imbedded News.
Abu-Grab or whatever was a cake walk as compared to Marine Corps Boot Camp.......
"Git- er -done"

[Buitenzorg]

Gentlemen, please,

By all means, continue to post your views, that's what Pprune is for after all, but try and don't take or make things personal. No need to turn the best board on this site into a public lavatory wall, Just Helicopters already has that side of things covered and is doing a sterling job;)

Getting worked up over politics seems the wrong thing to do anyway, it just gives the politicians an overinflated opinion of their importance, no need to encourage the blighters!

BTW, I notice that the ladies who lurk on this board have given this catfight (and previous ones) a miss, proof positive if any were required that women really are smarter than men.:ok:

[SASless]

Job Openings at Blackwater for those interested in going to the Sandbox....


SECURITY OPPORTUNITIES
Blackwater is providing qualified and trained Protective Security Specialists (PSS) for the purpose of conducting protective security operations in Iraq.

These positions currently include:

Protective Security Specialist (PSS)
PSS/Designated Defensive Marksman (DDM)
Explosive Detection Dog (EDD)/Handler
Administrative and Logistics Security Specialist (ALSS)
Intelligence Analyst (IA)
Armorer
Maintenance Positions
Medical Officer
Physician Assistant PSS/Emergency Medical Technician (EMT1) To be considered for a position as an Independent Contractor for Blackwater as a Protective Security Specialist (PSS) - Fill out and application and submit your DETAILED RESUME and a copy of your DD-214:
TO FILL OUT AN APPLICATION AND SUBMIT YOUR RESUME AND DD-214 CLICK HERE https://secure.blackwaterusa.com/

[7balja01]

before everyone gets signed up to this blackwater gimmick, do some research on helicopter losses in iraq. to be precise there are more privatised operations going on there now than military. the US gov hires many contracted pilots and security organisations like BW. you can get paid up to U.S. $1000 a day as a contracted pilot. but as i found out its not all that fun. i was watching a documentary about the issues relating to private contractors in the counntry when a iraqi rebel group's (americans call them insurgents) video footage was shown firing at an oil helicopter. the helicopter crashed in a grassy field. all passengers killed on impact. amazingly, the pilot survived and was thrown clear of the heli into grass. the rebels found the man (of three young kids) and said, "get up, go!go!". the man began running, like the engineer in the movie 'the jackal'. while he ran he was gunned down. it's a horrible thing to shoot an unarmed man, but do you think for one second that those iraqi's where going to let the pilot go, so he could continue serving a corporation which saps iraqi oil out of iraq?

jacob.

[Rich Lee]

Who let the dogs out?

[212man]

I'm starting to feel like I've logged onto the wrong forum now! Any chance this t****r could be removed?:confused:

[lup]

Any news on bolkows operating in Bagdad?
Did it get off the ground etc?:confused:

[BigMike]

"Helo Pilots - in Iraq
Ellis World Alliance Corporation - located in, Iraq

Summary
Helo Pilot(s) needed for work in IRAQ. We are a US based international construction company seeking qualified candidates to fly our corporate twin start helicopters. We work with the DOD on contracts to help rebuild the infrastructure in Iraq.

Permanent position
Full-time
Qualifications
Must have 3,000 minimum hour total time. Former military experience and bush pilot experience a plus. Candidates hired will live and work in Iraq.


Compensation / Benefits
Competitive salary and benefits."


Page Link: http://www.aviationemployment.com/job-listings/list-jobs.cgi?id=17676

[SASless]

Perhaps a part of this group of companies....

http://www.ellisenv.com/main.htm

As with all these kinds of outfits....read the contract very carefully! If you get stiffed for pay...who actually holds the contract with the US government and how many subcontractors are between you and the prime contractor? That has an almighty affect upon your ability to go against them for breach of contract.

It could be on the up and up...but be careful folks!

[Hughesy]

Whats the risk in flying in Iraq?
What is the likelyhood of being shot at.....or worse?
And is the money that these companys pay worth the extra risk involved?
Hughesy

[lup]

I guess from the replies, it never became a reality, I thought so at the time it when it was the talk of the town.

[Bravo73]

Whats the risk in flying in Iraq?
What is the likelyhood of being shot at.....or worse?
And is the money that these companys pay worth the extra risk involved?
Hughesy

Hughesy,

Do you watch the evening news? If you do, then it'll probably answer all of your questions. :eek: :sad:



But, if previous threads on this subject are anything to go by, the risks are extremely high and they are generally looking for ex-Special Forces types anyway. Try the search function.

[Bravo73]

Er, were you really expecting an answer in 5 hours???? :rolleyes:

I'm sure that if it did happen and if the people involved are Prooners, then they might post. But I also imagine that internet access in Baghdad is probably pretty sporadic at best.

[lup]

It has been nearly a year now, and the rotation was going to be 6 weeks on 4 weeks off, you would have thought there would be some of the drivers on leave with internet and ppruners that know them?

If it is up and running they are doing a good job at keeping a low profile.:cool:

[Oracle]

To answer your questions, no it never did get off the ground and was never liable to. Sadly the whole thing was poorly-thought out, and even less-well planned. I mean guys, 105's scuttling about the green zone low-level? And the reason they chose 105's? 'Because they can fly at 90KIAS on one engine' (Yes, a genuine quote! ) It was a shame that so many experienced pilots and very capable people wasted their time responding to this company, giving them free advice and all for ...... diddly-squat!
They are just aviation equipment suppliers with a few decent old-boy network Hereford connections, but with no real financial backing, operational grunt or experience on the line, so were ignored by those wid de money in de Ummah!
Rule #1 - If you can't keep up with the big boys - best not to try to join in the game!
:cool:

[R_J_M]

Can anyone let me know who is operating commercial rotary aircraft in Iraq. I need to get some quotes for a 12 mth contract, 1 flight every 4 weeks, 24 pax to be moved in one day

[Tex]

Easy answer. NONE right now. There was a former Eastern Block operator a couple of years ago, but no one as of the time I have been here (nine months).

[Fried_Chicken]

I'm not sure of any Civilian operators operating in Iraq (mostly if not all military) but I believe there are a couple in Kuwait or/and Jordan. A Google search may help you

FC

[LCT]

There is a commercial operation in Afghanistan, the operator of Pacific Helicopters, Papua New Guinea.

Their phone number is +675 732 1833. The MD's name is Ken Blain, perhaps there are a few parallels in the Area of Operations???

Cheers,
LCT :}

[Stan Switek]

Is Blackwater operating anything in Iraq? There is not enough money in the world to get me to fly there as a civilian.

[Salusa]

There is a commercial operation in Afghanistan, the operator of Pacific Helicopters, Papua New Guinea.

Their phone number is +675 732 1833. The MD's name is Ken Blain, perhaps there are a few parallels in the Area of Operations???

Cheers,
LCT :}

Are Pac Heli still there then?

I presume they pulled out when they lost thier 212 a couple of years ago?

[Nat O'Thee]

There are 412's operated there now, well there were last week.

Suggest Blackwater will give you a quote....

[Tex]

The only 412's I've seen in Iraq are Italian militatry. There were supposed to be some sprayers doing work between Balad and Baghdad, but I don't think it lasted very long.

[HELOFAN]

I think Blackwater Helicopters may be.

Speaking of which , I saw some clips of them on the weekend on www.youtube.com.

Just in the search function put "blackwater" and on the left hit search by rating...some interesting flying clips there.
Especially the one where the guys in the 500 pop up on the corner of the building where the guys with the machine gun are at , knock them to the ground with the skid , clear their table of items ..with the skid & then give them the finger on departure...... :E

If they are not operating I am sure they would know who is & details....looks like they had around 5 odd 500's there.

HF

[HELOFAN]

This is one of the clips I was talking of.

HF

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8cxvOj4DwY
If the link doesnt work try cut and paste.

[Nat O'Thee]

Great BW vid, mad fools.

Well the 412's certainly aint Italian, and were not dusting. So think they are a new addition to the hangar at WAHP.

Again a quote will be forthcoming from them.

[Verbatim03]

I know of another video on youtube you should watch if you are seriously considering going over there. If not then dont bother watching, it makes me sick to watch it, but I think seeing this could change your mind. Bulgarian (civilian) Mi-17 shot down by some sort of shoulder launched missle, pilot survived the initial crash and managed to hide for a short time before they found him, this is what happened.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=R_EeROD7h4g
WARNING: PEOPLE ARE KILLED IN THIS VIDEO
There is a longer version that shows them being shot down, I couldnt find it, but this should be more than enough.

[ems300]

thats got to make you think twice about going!!! :eek:

[Stan Switek]

At this stage of my life, I'll pass on that mission.

[dxbpilot]

is this the vid you couldn't find ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e1_uutjA9o

[Verbatim03]

Yep, thats definetly the one, the first half of it atleast. The second half is the part I posted.